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KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by david_uk on 04.10.12 14:43

@PeterMac wrote:
@jd wrote:
The grandmother was told stay at the table, that I believe

Dianne Webster was told to stay at the table on her own for 5 minutes after kate mccann started the scam. After 5 minutes Dianne Webster then went to apartment 5A, tried to pull the shutters up outside Maddies room but could not as they were too heavy (they were down)...Then she was told to go to the paynes apartment and wait there for the rest of the night
But they were NOT heavy.
I pushed them up easily as is shown on the video on Pat Brown's blog.
They are cheap nasty plastic slats, which rattle in their inadequate cheap and nasty housings and can be rammed up about two thirds of their length into the roller housing above the window. But when you let go, they rattle and crash and squeak down again. There is no way of holding them up from the outside without
• a stick, or
• an accomplice.
JT , Please note. There must have been a second person. Can your psychological intervention now provide the details ?
Tall, dark, handsome, smelling of Paco Rabane, murmuring softly in Latin (or perhaps they were Greek heroic couplets, one cannot tell at 15 feet distance), which matched perfectly his manly torso, visible through the finely crafted pure silk shirt, over the perfectly tailored trousers of the finest linen. His teeth clearly by the finest odontologists, his hands perfectly manicured, and his breath had that beautiful overtone of rose water and cardamom. His gait was upright and true, his shoes polished to a standard a drill sergeant would have praised.
This was the one for Madeleine.
This was her Prince. The one who was worthy of spiriting her away to far away Barcelona in less than three days, in his yacht. A super-powered yacht, not yet seen in the Atlantic or the Med. Capable of speed and luxury beyond imagination, (except for the imagination of Edgar and Mitchell , of course - But I digress !)

Will one of them one day have the guts to stop all this ?
puke

eh!! Have I totally missed something Peter. Are you the guy who went to Portugal with Pat?

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by PeterMac on 04.10.12 15:39

Yes.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 05.10.12 1:30

@PeterMac wrote:
But they were NOT heavy.
I pushed them up easily as is shown on the video on Pat Brown's blog.

Remember though that dianne webster is an elderly woman and her 'physical' strength would not be the same as a mans. Though having said this, you would be able to judge the weight and how light or heavy they might be to someone else not so physically strong as you

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 05.10.12 6:51

@jd wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
But they were NOT heavy.
I pushed them up easily as is shown on the video on Pat Brown's blog.

Remember though that dianne webster is an elderly woman and her 'physical' strength would not be the same as a mans. Though having said this, you would be able to judge the weight and how light or heavy they might be to someone else not so physically strong as you

I don't know why DW is described as 'elderly' she was then in her fifties and looked perfectly strong and healthy to me. She also switched on her mobile phone between 7.00 and 8.00 pm that evening after it was switched off for some 70 hours. Her son in law did the same. It was strange for her to be on the holiday at all, babysitting the children would have been logical in exchange for a free holiday with her daughter and friends.
Her presence there at all is the weirdest thing, there seems to have been no special occasion, did she ever go on holiday with this group before or did she ever have a holiday with her daughter and son in law? (Apart from the wedding in Tuscany).

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by sami on 05.10.12 6:58

The image I have in my mind of DW is elderley. Your post got me thinking why this is Tigger. It is due to having read her statements. She tries to conjure up this image of her being like a forgetful grandmother, not having a great sense of direction, having no clue of what anybody was doing nor what she herself did.

Her description of the shutters strikes me as one from someone who has seen the shutterrs in passing but has never touched them. They look heavy, they ought to be heavy, so they are heavy. If you have tried to open or close them, clearly they are not.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by PeterMac on 05.10.12 8:15

Quite. She was in her fifties. I am in my sixties.
But the shutters are very light. The difficulty is not their weight, it is that they are loose in the housing either side and jam as you try to push them up, since that is not what they were intended to do. They were supposed to be pulled, not pushed.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Genbug on 05.10.12 8:39

Not important in the great scheme of things, but for clarification, Dianne Webster gives her date of birth on her rogatory as 10 March 1944, so she would have been 63 at the time.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 05.10.12 8:40

@sami wrote:The image I have in my mind of DW is elderley. Your post got me thinking why this is Tigger. It is due to having read her statements. She tries to conjure up this image of her being like a forgetful grandmother, not having a great sense of direction, having no clue of what anybody was doing nor what she herself did.

Her description of the shutters strikes me as one from someone who has seen the shutterrs in passing but has never touched them. They look heavy, they ought to be heavy, so they are heavy. If you have tried to open or close them, clearly they are not.

imo we're underestimating this lady. DW comes across as scatty, very useful if you want to get out of things. Gets things wrong, it's her age.
The shutters got stuck a few inches up when they tried to push them up, but perhaps the 'heavy' bit was part of an instruction to illustrate how a child could not do it? That precognitive switching on of the mobiles worries me.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by sami on 05.10.12 8:57

@tigger wrote: imo we're underestimating this lady. DW comes across as scatty, very useful if you want to get out of things.


A bit like the old aunt who comes to stay at Christmas, sits in the corner asking the same question every five minutes whilst everybody rolls their eyes. For me it is not an opinion formed, but an impression given very clearly in the statements. In the same way Jane Tanner likes to have us think she hated Gerry McCann.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by joyce1938 on 05.10.12 9:29

is there any chance these shutters had been replaced at all ,before you went there peter mac,just a thought?joyce1938

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Da Troof on 05.10.12 10:31

@joyce1938 wrote:is there any chance these shutters had been replaced at all ,before you went there peter mac,just a thought?joyce1938

It really doesn't matter whether they were heavy or light or might have been replaced after summer 2007.

1. The shutters were open when the police arrived on the scene.

2. The tapas 9 witnesses including McC's and especially K say that they found the shutters were open when M was found to be missing.

3. There was NO evidence of anyone using the shutters/window for access from outside.

4. There was NO evidence of anyone using the shutters/window as an exit/escape route.

5. The only fingerprints on the window/window catch/handle were K McC's.

WHO OPENED THE WINDOW AND SHUTTERS? (Amaral thinks it was K McC because here fingerprints are there!)

WHY DID THEY OPEN THE WINDOW AND SHUTTERS? (Amaral thinks K McC did it to make it look like someone had come in or left the apartment through the window. Remember to start with the McC's claimed the apartment doors were locked)

I agree with Amaral and cannot imagine why anyone else would not.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by joyce1938 on 05.10.12 11:19

yes de troofe,i do understand those details ,but i just was realizing that the cause for shutters could have been use and forcing attempt,or being as petersaid how cheap and flimsy they were when he went with pat brown ,as it was this yeatr i think ,being channged could have been clever ploy also . joyce1938

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Guest on 05.10.12 11:51

@Da Troof wrote:
@joyce1938 wrote:is there any chance these shutters had been replaced at all ,before you went there peter mac,just a thought?joyce1938

It really doesn't matter whether they were heavy or light or might have been replaced after summer 2007.

1. The shutters were open when the police arrived on the scene.

2. The tapas 9 witnesses including McC's and especially K say that they found the shutters were open when M was found to be missing.

3. There was NO evidence of anyone using the shutters/window for access from outside.

4. There was NO evidence of anyone using the shutters/window as an exit/escape route.

5. The only fingerprints on the window/window catch/handle were K McC's.

WHO OPENED THE WINDOW AND SHUTTERS? (Amaral thinks it was K McC because here fingerprints are there!)

WHY DID THEY OPEN THE WINDOW AND SHUTTERS? (Amaral thinks K McC did it to make it look like someone had come in or left the apartment through the window. Remember to start with the McC's claimed the apartment doors were locked)

I agree with Amaral and cannot imagine why anyone else would not.



Three people fiddled with the shutters that night, Diane Webster, Gerry McCann and Kate McCann according to various witness statements. Here is a snip from Rachael Mampilly rogatory..............

Page 4 of the The Shutters thread, Rachael Oldfield rogatory statement...............

Rachael statement


Reply “Erm but I mean I remember kind of standing near the window with Kate and Fiona, erm so but I mean I don’t remember the specifics of anyone actually saying to me that, I think it was just sort of a general, Kate and Fi were sort of milling around outside the apartment, outside her and Kate’s apartment and cos I think at, either at that point or perhaps it was later in the night, erm you know Kate had tried to see whether you could lift the shutters from the outside, erm but which you could and they would stay up, erm so I think, I don’t think anyone told me specifically that the windows were open and the shutters were up, it was just erm you know kind of listening to conversations and seeing Kate and Fiona, erm sort of outside the apartment”.
1578 “Did you at any point yourself see the shutters up and the window open”?
Reply “Yes”.
1578 “When was that”?
Reply “When, when Fi and Kate were outside, erm you know


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id253.html

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 05.10.12 21:07

Dianne Webster 11th May 2007

However, she states that KATE had repeatedly commented that, on arriving at the bedroom, she had found the window of the room, with its shutter, both open. Yet, she [DW] did not notice, while at the entrance to the room, if the window was or was not open.

- However, she wants to stress that immediately afterwards, she went outside the apartment in order to ascertain whether she would be able to raise the shutters by hand from the outside, and found it was impossible for her. Consequently she infers that at the time of her arrival at the apartment the window would have been closed.


.... At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment. After this time she returned to the restaurant to get her handbag as well as the camera of the couple McCANN and "baby monitor" of her daughter, and was soon back again in the apartment.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

And the shutters would have to be down for Dianne Webster to try and raise them...law of physics

And Dianne Webster was in apartment minutes after kate mccann raised the alarm, so they were down then

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 06.10.12 2:53

Dianne Webster 11th May 2007

In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN.

To clarify, just 5 mins after kate mccann started the scam screaming and shouting that the window/shutters were open, Dianne Webster was in the apartment and saw the window closed and tried to open the shutters herself (which had to be down for her to try and raise them)

I don't believe Dianne Webster knew anything of the impending abduction scam at that time. Its interesting she says:

The informant does not know Madeleine well, because she lives a long way from the McCanns, and she cannot say very much about Madeleine's personality. ....Sounds like she hardly saw Maddie on the holiday (apart from the 1st day and flight over) if she can't say much about her. Would explain why the mccanns always had breakfast/lunch by themselves, DW would not have particularly noticed Maddie not being around. She had no reason to see her at creche as her grand daughters were not in the same group

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Da Troof on 06.10.12 10:44

By the time DW had reached the apartment G McC had already been outside to see if the shutters could be opened from the outside. It was THE FIRST thing he said he did when getting to the apartment from which his daughter had gone missing. wtf2 angry2 wft This is in his interview/statement with PJ on 4th May 2007.

Anyway, it is hardly surprising that the shutters were down when DW got there.

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correction

Post by Da Troof on 06.10.12 10:48

Apologies it is from his 10th May statement/interview with PJ

"The deponent ran into the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open to one side, the shutters almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE's bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cots. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment.

Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside."


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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Guest on 06.10.12 10:51

@Da Troof wrote:Apologies it is from his 10th May statement/interview with PJ

"The deponent ran into the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open to one side, the shutters almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE's bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cots. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment.

Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside."


How did the twins manage to sleep through all that. 3 people fiddling with the shutter PLUS the alleged abductor. Diane Webster said they got stuck and twisted, must have made a lot of noise, yet the twins slept on an on............

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by PeterMac on 06.10.12 10:51

@jd wrote:Dianne Webster 11th May 2007

.... At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment. After this time she returned to the restaurant to get her handbag as well as the camera of the couple McCANN and "baby monitor" of her daughter, and was soon back again in the apartment.
Has any one ever met a woman who would sit in a bar alone whilst the world was collapsing round her and then nonchalantly mooch round to an apartment from which a small child had been abducted by a pae***, and start wanking the shutters up and down,

and would LEAVE HER HANDBAG ?

Seriously ?
I hadn't spotted that before, but it tells me something about the rest of her "evidence"

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 06.10.12 10:54

@PeterMac wrote:
@jd wrote:Dianne Webster 11th May 2007

.... At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment. After this time she returned to the restaurant to get her handbag as well as the camera of the couple McCANN and "baby monitor" of her daughter, and was soon back again in the apartment.
Has any one ever met a woman who would sit in a bar alone whilst the world was collapsing round her and then nonchalantly mooch round to an apartment from which a small child had been abducted by a pae***, and start wanking the shutters up and down,

and would LEAVE HER HANDBAG ?

Seriously ?
I hadn't spotted that before, but it tells me something about the rest of her "evidence"

There's something very interesting about middle-aged women. They become invisible, it can be very useful.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Ribisl on 06.10.12 11:08

@PeterMac wrote:
@jd wrote:Dianne Webster 11th May 2007

.... At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment. After this time she returned to the restaurant to get her handbag as well as the camera of the couple McCANN and "baby monitor" of her daughter, and was soon back again in the apartment.
Has any one ever met a woman who would sit in a bar alone whilst the world was collapsing round her and then nonchalantly mooch round to an apartment from which a small child had been abducted by a pae***, and start wanking the shutters up and down,

and would LEAVE HER HANDBAG ?

Seriously ?
I hadn't spotted that before, but it tells me something about the rest of her "evidence"
It was supposed to be a very safe resort, according to the MCs'. So you can leave your handbag or children unattended without any fear of theft or abduction. Simples.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 06.10.12 11:16

@Da Troof wrote:Apologies it is from his 10th May statement/interview with PJ

"The deponent ran into the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open to one side, the shutters almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE's bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cots. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment.

Then he closed the shutters, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside."

To put things into perspective.....A father has just learnt that his daughter has gone missing, so what does this one do......Goes to close the shutters, goes outside and tries to reopen them! For the life of me what is this going to achieve at this moment in time!....and most importantly why is gerry mccann not thinking of finding his daughter and more interested in windows and shutters!

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 06.10.12 11:28

In reality and facts......There is truly only just kate and gerry mccanns 'WORD' that these shutters were open...and within a 5 min window

Nobody else on the planet apart from these 2 saw them open, and the mccanns closed them within 5 mins of finding them open

And there is the PJ evidence

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 06.10.12 12:16

@Ribisl wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@jd wrote:Dianne Webster 11th May 2007

.... At the time described above she remained about 10 minutes in the apartment. After this time she returned to the restaurant to get her handbag as well as the camera of the couple McCANN and "baby monitor" of her daughter, and was soon back again in the apartment.
Has any one ever met a woman who would sit in a bar alone whilst the world was collapsing round her and then nonchalantly mooch round to an apartment from which a small child had been abducted by a pae***, and start wanking the shutters up and down,

and would LEAVE HER HANDBAG ?

Seriously ?
I hadn't spotted that before, but it tells me something about the rest of her "evidence"
It was supposed to be a very safe resort, according to the MCs'. So you can leave your handbag or children unattended without any fear of theft or abduction. Simples.

But they'd been warned about the recent burglaries - probably why they were so relieved 'no valuables were taken'. Except Maddie of course.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Angelique on 10.10.12 10:36

Not sure if this post is in the right thread (please remove if not) it probably was at the beginning but the thread has strayed a little.

I have been reading DP's statement this morning and found another item that seems to suggest something or maybe not. It refers to "the computer side of things". I should say it's the words : "you know he’s very good with computers and setting that side up" - the word "setting"

Here's the quote:


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

David Payne interview at Leicestershire Police Headquarters - Part 3/3 Duarte Levy Wordpress
Snip:
1485    ”You mentioned early on, on the last interview as well, about a photo. You spoke brief about a photo you’d shown, you’d shown a photo.”
Reply    ”Oh yes, I mean…”
1485    ”Where did that come from?”
Reply    ”Err where did the photo come from? That’s a very good question, err I’m not sure whether it was from Gerry’s digital camera or one of the digital cameras that we had there from my recollection. Err but you know, it was, sorry I can’t, I can’t remember exactly. I seem to remember it was one of the digital cameras but that’s about as far as it…”
1485    ”Can you remember the pose in which Madeleine was on the photo?”
Reply    ”Err I can’t, no.”
1485    ”Did you see the photo?”
Reply    ”Err I did, yes. I mean Russell err was probably the most instrumental in that side that we, you know he’s very good with computers and setting that side up, so he specifically went off err you know to do that. Err you know, I mean we kind of identified early like you know I have, I have seen the picture and, but sorry I can’t remember it.”
1485    ”Okay.”
Reply    ”But Russell was, I say, you know that was where his strengths was and he went down trying to link up the computers and was good at that kind of (inaudible).”

Does this sound like a "set up"?

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