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KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

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KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Da Troof on 29.09.12 22:07

Hello All, I'm a new member here, but have been looking at this forum for a while and have been skeptical about the McC's abduction hypothesis ever since 4th May 2007. I am a research scientist (molecular biologist) by profession so I tend to approach everything from an evidence based perspective.

I find much of the debate and discussion on this forum very interesting and informative, but I think some of the suggestions I have seen recently are starting to get a little far fetched. My own view is that the available evidence should be the foundation of any discussion about the fate of poor little MMcC.

I have always considered the abduction by stranger hypothesis to be rather absurd for several reasons. However I think it is even more absurd to suggest that MMcC was never in PdL, that the "last photo" was photoshopped, that some of the photographs are not of MMcC, that the McC's had another child etc etc.

My interpretation of the available evidence that I have read (I admit I haven't read K McC's book and still haven't managed to read every word of the official PJ files) is that there are still four possible explanations for MMcC's disappearance.

1. MMcC was abducted by stranger(s).
2. MMcC died accidentally in PdL Portugal, and her parents covered up her death and disposed of the body.
3. MMcC was deliberately killed in PdL Portugal and her parents covered up her death and disposed of the body.
4. MMcC was given/sold to a third party in PdL Portugal and her parents created an abduction hoax to cover up this fact.

It is quite alarming to realise that of these four explanations the least likely (when considering the available evidence) is the first! However even this explanation is more likely than some of the suggestions I have read on here and other forums (fora?) recently.

For what it is worth I find it incredibly frustrating that all four of the possible explanations given above are still possible after all this time and money.

sad


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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by bobbin on 29.09.12 23:08

@Da Troof wrote:Hello All, I'm a new member here, but have been looking at this forum for a while and have been skeptical about the McC's abduction hypothesis ever since 4th May 2007. I am a research scientist (molecular biologist) by profession so I tend to approach everything from an evidence based perspective.

I find much of the debate and discussion on this forum very interesting and informative, but I think some of the suggestions I have seen recently are starting to get a little far fetched. My own view is that the available evidence should be the foundation of any discussion about the fate of poor little MMcC.

I have always considered the abduction by stranger hypothesis to be rather absurd for several reasons. However I think it is even more absurd to suggest that MMcC was never in PdL, that the "last photo" was photoshopped, that some of the photographs are not of MMcC, that the McC's had another child etc etc.

My interpretation of the available evidence that I have read (I admit I haven't read K McC's book and still haven't managed to read every word of the official PJ files) is that there are still four possible explanations for MMcC's disappearance.

1. MMcC was abducted by stranger(s).
2. MMcC died accidentally in PdL Portugal, and her parents covered up her death and disposed of the body.
3. MMcC was deliberately killed in PdL Portugal and her parents covered up her death and disposed of the body.
4. MMcC was given/sold to a third party in PdL Portugal and her parents created an abduction hoax to cover up this fact.

It is quite alarming to realise that of these four explanations the least likely (when considering the available evidence) is the first! However even this explanation is more likely than some of the suggestions I have read on here and other forums (fora?) recently.

For what it is worth I find it incredibly frustrating that all four of the possible explanations given above are still possible after all this time and money.



Welcome da troof, I think we would all like a bit of your name. The last photo is photoshopped imo, the background flowers could not have been out at that time, therefore without any of the other inconsistencies, that alone means it is a photo that has been concocted.
No DNA could be found of Madeleine in the apartment. Not the clothes she had worn that day, not her shoes, toothbrush and so on, so how amazing would that be that no skin cells, no finger prints, no hairs etc. could be found of a child who would have normally left sticky marks at least all around the place.
Only blood, a very close forensic match, and cadaver smell indicate the presence of a body.
As parents, most of us, can tell if a child looks consistent whether a bit younger or a bit older. Some of the Madeleine photos do not seem to tally. This is an observation.
Why might the McCanns not have had another child. With IVF usually more than one fertilised egg is implanted, usually several.
Since after 5 years we feel that something is being covered up and we cannot find it, we have to try every avenue.
This does not mean that after analysis it will hold fast if it fails the test of being rigorous enough to become an accepted theory.
Until the truth is known, no thoughts should be eliminated without consideration, including of course your own.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Da Troof on 30.09.12 0:49

Thanks Bobbin,

I agree nothing should be ruled out, but imo some possibilities are rather more unlikely than others.

Last photo. Without knowing the type of plant who can say whether it would flower at beginning of May. I have many plants that flower in April/May and I live in Scotland! Several experts including some who distrust the McC's have said they cannot find evidence of photoshopping. I think it is rather unlikely that the McC's would hire someone (very expensive because it must be a fantastic fake) to construct this picture. I also doubt they had the time/knowledge to do it themselves. What is wrong with accepting that this photo is real? MMcC was alive and well early in the afternoon. Sometime later she either died in an accident, was killed, sold/given to someone else or perhaps abducted by a stranger ( no ). Her parents then either covered it up or reacted as any parent would when finding their child missing.

DNA. Was a concerted effort made to find MMcC's DNA and other traces in the apartment? I haven't read all the official PJ files so I cannot say for sure, but I doubt it. They would not have wanted to prove that she had been there because that was not in question at the time. By the time anyone would have considered the question that MMcC might never have been in the apartment (several months) it may have been too late to conduct such an analysis. BTW I am a research biologist by profession I work with DNA every week.

Either MMcC was one that holiday or the McC's had another child (not MMcC) with them. Now, is that really likely? According to this theory MMcC must have been killed/abducted before they went to PdL and the McC's decided to arrange a super elaborate hoax taking another (similar looking) child (where did they get this child) on holiday before staging a hoax abduction and claiming that MMcC was the abductee while at the same time killing and getting rid of the other child. IT IS JUST TOO COMPLICATED.

Yes MMcC could have had a twin, but how do you keep that secret for nearly 4 years? Actually more than 4 years because prenatal scans would have shown two foetuses. Again the just makes the whole thing just TOO COMPLICATED.

Yes MMcC does look different in some pictures, but we don't always have reliable dates for them and there are several different facial expressions, clothes, hats etc. Do you really think the McC's would release pictures of another child, knowing that they would be subject to intense scrutiny? The timing of the release of some pictures is questionable, but there are likely to be more simple explanations for these timing issues. IMO the photos I have seen of MMcC all look like the same child.

Stick with the known facts and evidence, there is plenty of it, and most of it does not support the abduction by strangers hypothesis. IMO Creating over complicated hypotheses that have little or no evidence to support them only makes this forum open to ridicule.






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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 6:13

beware Troll warning......

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Ribisl on 30.09.12 7:40

@tigger wrote: beware Troll warning......
Good morning tigger. I think you are being a bit unfair to this new poster. Many of us have been there at the start and you must recall how I used to bang on about facts and no assumptions when I first joined this forum.

@ de troop Yes, it is important to separate facts from suppositions. But the more you study the so called 'facts' you will realise many of them cannot be taken at their face value because there has been an incredible amount of media manipulation by the McCanns over the years as well as simply shoddy reporting by the same media. So one needs to keep an open mind. Also if you believe in a cover-up, then it is vitally important to try to understand what really lies behind the official version and various witness statements. And to do that one needs to apply a fair amount of imagination as well as exercise a bit of lateral thinking. Many of our hypotheses will get us nowhere but maybe one day we might dig out the complete truth. thumbup

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 8:18

@Ribisl wrote:
@tigger wrote: beware Troll warning......
Good morning tigger. I think you are being a bit unfair to this new poster. Many of us have been there at the start and you must recall how I used to bang on about facts and no assumptions when I first joined this forum.

@ de troop Yes, it is important to separate facts from suppositions. But the more you study the so called 'facts' you will realise many of them cannot be taken at their face value because there has been an incredible amount of media manipulation by the McCanns over the years as well as simply shoddy reporting by the same media. So one needs to keep an open mind. Also if you believe in a cover-up, then it is vitally important to try to understand what really lies behind the official version and various witness statements. And to do that one needs to apply a fair amount of imagination as well as exercise a bit of lateral thinking. Many of our hypotheses will get us nowhere but maybe one day we might dig out the complete truth. thumbup

Morning Ribisl, ready for tennis? It's a beautiful day here!

I haven't joined in the twin theory, because Troof is right that it is way too complicated and imo isn't worth covering up. It' s not a Victorian melodrama after all.

I think there are two 'mysteries' here. The disappearance of Maddie and the unusual collection of people at what is after all, a run of the mill low to mid-priced holiday resort.
Imo these are two separate items, unfortunately connected by the McCanns using an unofficial meeting of 'interested parties' for their own 'project'. Imo it fits the psychology of the individuals as Jeeves would say.
I am convinced that Maddie was a disappointment almost from the moment she was born and once the twins had arrived, she became a burden which was shared by the family. I also think that she wasn't a healthy child by any means which is of prime importance.
I would advise Troof to read Dr. Ludke, short and to the point. I have alway seen relief in their behaviour after 3/5, not a lot of grief, unless they were feeling hard done by if the press or public didn't react the way they wanted.
After that I'd say read Enid O'Dowd's analysis of the Fund and you have two professional opinions that stand up to scrutiny.

What I think is most revealing is the 'Delboy' syndrome. The demanding, strutting behaviour, the contacting of Beckham, Elton John, worldwide celebrities, the finally getting what they'd been entitled to all their lives. That's what I saw happening.
They took a well prepared risk, it worked far better than they could have hoped in their wildest dreams and they acted accordingly. However, the powers that had no option but to sweep everything under the carpet, could not prevent the PJ from using their brains. That's why the timelines from the date they arrived back in the UK are so interesting, they show the public support, the promised rewards and the lifestyle they wanted being eroded slowly. In exchange for a continued status of innocent parents. Imo even that isn't working anymore.

As far as the photographs go Troof, you're wrong on quite a few. Photoshopping has been proved, the phone ping analyses, Blacksmith and Dr. Roberts - these articles and analyses all point to an early demise of Maddie in PdL.
All this - imo - points to preparation and a long one too. 2006 is the year I would like to know all about.

Watching it all unfold, it's like a Greek tragedy - once you have called up the daemons to do your will, they are free to destroy you.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by aiyoyo on 30.09.12 8:21

Either you believe the dogs or you don't! No two ways about it.

If you believe the dogs -- Maddie died in the holiday apartment and her parents covered and still are covering it up, period.

If open theory is still going around then what's the difference of saying Alien has got her, hey?

Cant believe we are this far down where serious campaigners and researchers here are working so hard on the getting justice for her only for people to come on and say " Oh it could be this or it could be that, and OH OH BTW I am newbie, virgin to the case, not read this and not fully read that so I am not so sure, but it could even be wishy washy this or wishy washy that". And YETwe criticise Andy Redwood for the most stupidest remark of his entire career "that Madeleine could be alive, or sadly she could be dead."..

With all due respect to newbies, even if we want to explore all options, the mccanns' game is clearly not that, and have you pondered why?
The *dead* word sends shivers down their spine because it would mean their freedom card will be taken away.
There is only one reason they continue their game of phantom abduction and that's no evidence Maddie is harmed....blah blah blah blah blah blah and they will continue to do that till dooms day as long as the money continues to roll in and they are still enjoying their liberty. Ask yourself why does it stop being about Madeleine for them from the word *GO* - simple!

If it is about Madeleine one does not need Einstein's IQ to know that chances of a child taken by *stranger* surviving is A BIG FAT ZERO, but not this pair of *educated* doctors who apparently think she's treated like a princess somewhere even though they insisted a *paedophile* got her. GET REAL MEN.

Sorry, rant over.


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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 8:44

Bless you my boy! I just happened to be in a reasonable mood - but I second your rant! airkiss

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Da Troof on 30.09.12 9:15

Tigger, I'm no troll, but you can think that if you wish.

Returning to the subject.

IMO photoshopping of the "last" photo prior to its release has not been proven. It is possible, but unlikely.

All things remain possible. At the moment, the most likely explanation , IMO ,for MMcC's disappearance is that some "accident" befell her in the apartment and the McC's and their friends covered this up.

Some of the other suggestions I read are just far too complex. They require a level of skill and preparation that the McC's just haven't demonstrated. They haven't even been able to stage a realistic hoax abduction!

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by pennylane on 30.09.12 9:53

@Da Troof wrote:Tigger, I'm no troll, but you can think that if you wish.

Returning to the subject.

IMO photoshopping of the "last" photo prior to its release has not been proven. It is possible, but unlikely.

All things remain possible. At the moment, the most likely explanation , IMO ,for MMcC's disappearance is that some "accident" befell her in the apartment and the McC's and their friends covered this up.

Some of the other suggestions I read are just far too complex. They require a level of skill and preparation that the McC's just haven't demonstrated. They haven't even been able to stage a realistic hoax abduction!

Welcome Da Troof. I believe in keeping it simple too! I believe Maddie may have been sedated following the crying incident, and died in or near the apartment. I believe the dog alerts are crucial and marked where she had lain or been put temporarily. I believe the catastrophe occurred late 2nd or during 3rd May 2007, and there was panic and confusion in the rush to hide the body. The last photo may be fishy, but I don't subscribe to all the other photo shopping, or the pre-planned theories either.

The reports in the early days were the closest to the truth of what happened (imho).... i.e., neglect, the crying episode, sedation, broken neck, fake abduction. I trust and believe Goncalo Amaral's theory as being the closest to what occurred.

I shall read your future posts with interest.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by PeterMac on 30.09.12 10:11

@aiyoyo wrote:
Sorry, rant over.
ab irato, veritas

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by sami on 30.09.12 10:18

@Da Troof wrote:Tigger, I'm no troll, but you can think that if you wish.

Returning to the subject.

IMO photoshopping of the "last" photo prior to its release has not been proven. It is possible, but unlikely.

All things remain possible. At the moment, the most likely explanation , IMO ,for MMcC's disappearance is that some "accident" befell her in the apartment and the McC's and their friends covered this up.

Some of the other suggestions I read are just far too complex. They require a level of skill and preparation that the McC's just haven't demonstrated. They haven't even been able to stage a realistic hoax abduction!


Good morning Da Troof. With respect, I consider your explanation of 6 adults instantly being agreeable to the covering up of the death of a child (without advanced warning) unlikely, though. I understand what you are saying, but this is one thing that does not work for me.

I am not an expert in photoshopping so cannot comment on whether or not that picture has been changed. However, taken as a whole subject, there is something decidely wrong with the issuing of photos of Madeleine in general. So everything needs to be questioned.

I have for a long time considered a faked abduction scenario, which will "fit" what happened on a lot of levels.

I believe the McCanns are still playing out the original plan in their heads - Madeleine was abducted and is not with them. The ending has changed though, she is not coming back. This is their coping mechanism.

I agree when you say the events they put forward as to what happened that night is rubbish. I also believe if you sit down to make a plan, you would not put forward such a bad one. However, if you consider an original plan - shutters, child missing, Taners sighting, Gerrys blog to communicate, the fund, his references to a year missing, it could have been a reasonable plan with a large financial gain. Something happened to make them change that plan, quickly, and imo without all of the original actors in the group being immediately informed of the actual happenings. Perhaps just the men were intiitally informed that night to help in the clean up.

If I was asked to give a synopsis as to what I honestly think happened, I would say planned fake abduction, Madeleine given away early in the week, but returned due to some problem - illness perhaps - and she then died in 5a. The young child in the photos released at the beginning were simply to ensure if somebody had seen her elsewhere near PDL, she was not recognisable. If it were a planned fake abduction, they would not leave it to chance to carry it out "live" on the scene that Thursday night. She would have been quietly given away at another time. Hence the lack of evidence to show she was there for most of that week.

So you have the group going ahead with the original plan, but in very different circumstances, with some quick, ill thought out adjustments because of panic, and you have the story as it stands now. Yes, you still have six other adults covering up the death of a child, but under different circumstances.

Supposition only of course and another wild theory, but all we can do is discuss and suggest and hope someday the truth will be uncovered.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 10:31

@sami
Maddie being 'not dead' only became an unchangeable mantra later on. Here's what Gerry said on the 3rd June 2007:

Gerry added: “Of course we believe Madeleine is still alive but you would be incredible if you hadn’t considered the worst scenario, that she’s dead.


http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/gerry-mccann-speaking-on-june-3rd-2007.html

See also jd's post on the June topic.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by sami on 30.09.12 10:51

@tigger wrote:@sami
Maddie being 'not dead' only became an unchangeable mantra later on. Here's what Gerry said on the 3rd June 2007:

Gerry added: “Of course we believe Madeleine is still alive but you would be incredible if you hadn’t considered the worst scenario, that she’s dead.


http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/gerry-mccann-speaking-on-june-3rd-2007.html

See also jd's post on the June topic.

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Morning Tigger, thanks. Its one of those forensic linguistic things , the truth comming out unintentionally ? Once they had time to calm down and overcome the initial shock, they reverted back to plan a, continued with the money making fund. A dead Madeleine equals end of fund. I doubt even the McCanns were 100% calm and rational in the first few weeks. However making the best of a bad situation strikes me as something Gerry would happily do.

My post was more to show the original poster how photoshopped photographs, talk of Madeleine not being around for much of the week etc., could actually fit with a reasonably simple theory. It is not such a wild crazy thing to say she was substituted at the creche etc., if she had been in the care of others for the week, as part of a re-planned money making abductoin plan. She may have fallen elsewhere in the care of others who did not want a dead child on their hands so they returned her.

Or perhaps I am simply trying to justify to myself that no parent could be so cold as to simply find their child dead or dying, whisk her away, bury her and publically lie about it for years.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 11:13

@sami wrote:
@tigger wrote:@sami
Maddie being 'not dead' only became an unchangeable mantra later on. Here's what Gerry said on the 3rd June 2007:

Gerry added: “Of course we believe Madeleine is still alive but you would be incredible if you hadn’t considered the worst scenario, that she’s dead.


http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/gerry-mccann-speaking-on-june-3rd-2007.html

See also jd's post on the June topic.

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Morning Tigger, thanks. Its one of those forensic linguistic things , the truth comming out unintentionally ? Once they had time to calm down and overcome the initial shock, they reverted back to plan a, continued with the money making fund. A dead Madeleine equals end of fund. I doubt even the McCanns were 100% calm and rational in the first few weeks. However making the best of a bad situation strikes me as something Gerry would happily do.

My post was more to show the original poster how photoshopped photographs, talk of Madeleine not being around for much of the week etc., could actually fit with a reasonably simple theory. It is not such a wild crazy thing to say she was substituted at the creche etc., if she had been in the care of others for the week, as part of a re-planned money making abductoin plan. She may have fallen elsewhere in the care of others who did not want a dead child on their hands so they returned her.

Or perhaps I am simply trying to justify to myself that no parent could be so cold as to simply find their child dead or dying, whisk her away, bury her and publically lie about it for years.

You're quite right Sami. We aredealing with several corkscrew-like minds, so it's never going to be simple for that reason alone. I have had the misfortune to personally know people like that, one recognises the pattern.
The personalities and the conviction that they are clever and above ordinary mortals tend to cloud the issue. At the heart of it is a very simple issue imo, a missing child, evidence of the death of the child and a very lucrative Fund which expends only 13% of its income on finding the child.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 30.09.12 12:57

Gerry added: “Of course we believe Madeleine is still alive but you would be incredible if you hadn’t considered the worst scenario, that she’s dead.

Why do the mccanns threaten to sue people and ruin their lives if they believe Maddie is dead when gerry mccann is saying the same thing himself!!

if its "incredible if you hadn’t considered the worst scenario, that she’s dead." why the need to sue people who believe the same?...Talk about totally contradicting yourself!

And, when he also says he does not have a problem with anyone purporting a theory based on the facts too

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Ribisl on 30.09.12 13:13

@tigger wrote:

You're quite right Sami. We aredealing with several corkscrew-like minds, so it's never going to be simple for that reason alone. I have had the misfortune to personally know people like that, one recognises the pattern.
The personalities and the conviction that they are clever and above ordinary mortals tend to cloud the issue. At the heart of it is a very simple issue imo, a missing child, evidence of the death of the child and a very lucrative Fund which expends only 13% of its income on finding the child.
Yes, that's the inevitable conclusion one comes to when studying the MCs. I fully subscribe to the notion that she died in that apartment and her body was hidden by her parents who then devised a scheme in order to obtain financial gains from their 'missing' daughter. That much is simple. The difficulty is in separating the facts from red herrings and blue whales in order to substantiate that simple sequence of events without discovering her body.

PS Tennis was necessary for all important de-stress and highly enjoyable despite minor aches and pains, thanks.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 30.09.12 13:22

PS Tennis was necessary for all important de-stress and highly enjoyable despite minor aches and pains

The other thing I find very odd is Gerry McCann playing tennis when golf is his thing, surely going to the Algarve and not playing golf is bizarre? Even a 'pilgrimage' to Vilamoura isn't something that any keen golfer would do? The numerous Algarve Golf Clubs, as far as I know, are prepared to rent golf clubs for very reasonable prices as it’s of their own interest to attract all possible golfers that, as on holiday, have much else to pack besides this. This “lack” of golfing makes me think there was surely a reason they HAD to stay on site at the OC. I haven't seen anyone else mention the golf thing apart from GM being a golfer.
http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/just-couple-of-things-i-find-strange.html


-------
Gerry McCann loved golf. Kate McCann was a working mom with dreams of a large family. Gerry McCann's boss and golfing buddy, Dr. Doug Skehan, said their lives were picture perfect.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic7112.html

I believe gerry mcann was captain of the Rothley Golf Club. There are pictures of him there somewhere

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by tigger on 30.09.12 13:35

Gerry had been to Portugal on golfing trips (from the book) so at least two I suppose.

I think the golf is played down because there must be no connection between golf clubs in PdL and Gerry. Imo because other members of those golf clubs would have to admit they knew Gerry. It's absolutely not - as some seem to think - because Maddie is buried somewhere on or near a golf club.

It's because there must be no obvious connection between the golf courses and Gerry. Why? Other members, owners, part-owners? The other reason, he'd never been to PdL we are told. That's why they stayed at OC - to make us believe they were babes in the woods, even going to the supermarket was an expedition. Gerry could also not have walked down PdL with a child as he didn't know the place at all. They even had to ask a policeman the way to the church.... l

Why did Murat have a meeting at a golf club? I believe that's on the 1st of May although I could be wrong.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 30.09.12 13:45

@tigger wrote:Gerry had been to Portugal on golfing trips (from the book) so at least two I suppose.

I think the golf is played down because there must be no connection between golf clubs in PdL and Gerry. Imo because other members of those golf clubs would have to admit they knew Gerry. It's absolutely not - as some seem to think - because Maddie is buried somewhere on or near a golf club.

It's because there must be no obvious connection between the golf courses and Gerry. Why? Other members, owners, part-owners? The other reason, he'd never been to PdL we are told. That's why they stayed at OC - to make us believe they were babes in the woods, even going to the supermarket was an expedition. Gerry could also not have walked down PdL with a child as he didn't know the place at all. They even had to ask a policeman the way to the church.... l

Why did Murat have a meeting at a golf club? I believe that's on the 1st of May although I could be wrong.

Murat had a meeting at a golf club in Vilamoura on May 3rd. Pat Perkins has a good friend who owns a bar in Vilamoura (Pacific bar) that specialise in running golf days etc. One of the Symingtons writes about Golf in the Algarve

I agree with Textusa - This “lack” of golfing makes me think there was surely a reason they HAD to stay on site at the OC.......Meetings with the owners of MW/OC, independent witness sightings of him there for later etc etc

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by sami on 30.09.12 14:03

@Ribisl wrote:
@tigger wrote:

You're quite right Sami. We aredealing with several corkscrew-like minds, so it's never going to be simple for that reason alone. I have had the misfortune to personally know people like that, one recognises the pattern.
The personalities and the conviction that they are clever and above ordinary mortals tend to cloud the issue. At the heart of it is a very simple issue imo, a missing child, evidence of the death of the child and a very lucrative Fund which expends only 13% of its income on finding the child.
Yes, that's the inevitable conclusion one comes to when studying the MCs. I fully subscribe to the notion that she died in that apartment and her body was hidden by her parents who then devised a scheme in order to obtain financial gains from their 'missing' daughter. That much is simple. The difficulty is in separating the facts from red herrings and blue whales in order to substantiate that simple sequence of events without discovering her body.

PS Tennis was necessary for all important de-stress and highly enjoyable despite minor aches and pains, thanks.


Yes, and tennis was necessary also to place them somewhere at any given time.

Everthing they did on that holiday they did to the extreme. The children went to the creche EVERY day, the adults played tennis EVERY day, the ate at the tapas EVERY day. Who goes on holiday to try and de-stress from normal everyday life and turns into some mini olympic athlete. None of them seemed to excel in sport back home, I have never seen a tale of how any of the group were known in public for their sporting achievements. As a working parent of young children, my reason for going on holiday was to get away from doing the same thing EVERY day. Break out of the established routine of child care, work, dinners and bed time.

Why the desparate need to be seen, to have their presence noticed or noted, constantly and consistently within the confines of the OC complex. The regular pattern supports the someone was watching us theory, they knew our movements so knew they could strike. The issue I have with that though, is in actual fact the "routine" changed on Thursday night, so anybody watching up to then would have been familiar with a different checking system. So, why ?

Seems to me for any true golfer to go to the Algarve and not golf is a mortal sin, in the golfing world at any rate.

No, it is all too regular and predictable.

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Da Troof on 30.09.12 14:06

Yes the one complex part of the faked abduction scenario is the involvement or otherwise of the other members of the Tapas 9.

I think there are two possible explanations that are relatively simple.

1. The McC's told their friends about MMcC's "accident" and they all agreed that it would be best to cover it up. This necessarily means the accident took place some time before the evening of May3rd, but could have been that afternoon or early evening. It would also explain the pact between them.

2. Most or all of the Tapas friends were completely unaware of the true story and simply reacted to the story fed them by the McC's at around 22.00 on May 3rd. From what I can gather most/all of them seemed to react in the way one would expect. i.e. raising the alarm, joining the search, etc. The "pact" between them could have been agreed later and have nothing to do with a cover-up, more just an agreement not to say anything else unless they were legally required to do so.

Of course it is entirely possible that something more complicated happened, but I tend to think the most simple explanation is the most likely.

There is one other hypothesis that I have considered: G McC is the only person who really knows what happened to MMcC. He removed her, dead or alive, during his earlier check then simply left Kate to find MMcC missing at 22.00ish. It doesn't quite fit with all the reported statements and evidence, in particular K McC running into the Tapas Bar saying "they've taken her", but I'm not really sure how accurate that reported statement is. Also K McC's fingerprints on the window suggest she was the one who set the abduction scene, but perhaps G told her to open or close the window when he was checking the shutters.
I am drawn to this hypothesis because it means that G McC doesn't have to rely on others keeping quiet. He could be the only one who really knows what happened.


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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by jd on 30.09.12 14:30

@jd wrote:
PS Tennis was necessary for all important de-stress and highly enjoyable despite minor aches and pains

The other thing I find very odd is Gerry McCann playing tennis when golf is his thing, surely going to the Algarve and not playing golf is bizarre? Even a 'pilgrimage' to Vilamoura isn't something that any keen golfer would do? The numerous Algarve Golf Clubs, as far as I know, are prepared to rent golf clubs for very reasonable prices as it’s of their own interest to attract all possible golfers that, as on holiday, have much else to pack besides this. This “lack” of golfing makes me think there was surely a reason they HAD to stay on site at the OC. I haven't seen anyone else mention the golf thing apart from GM being a golfer.
http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/just-couple-of-things-i-find-strange.html


-------
Gerry McCann loved golf. Kate McCann was a working mom with dreams of a large family. Gerry McCann's boss and golfing buddy, Dr. Doug Skehan, said their lives were picture perfect.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic7112.html

I believe gerry mcann was captain of the Rothley Golf Club. There are pictures of him there somewhere

In an article By Martin Stote on October 30,2007 MCCANNS USE FUND TO PAY MORTGAGE....it says "The controversial use of the Find Madeleine Fund was revealed as Gerry, 39, enjoyed a round of golf on the Rothley Park course near his home just days before his return to work as a consultant cardiologist at Leicester’s Glenfield Hospital.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1140.1880

Its funny that since (and prior) there are no references to either mccann playing tennis. plenty of running and playing golf but not one time have they played tennis. Considering they were in a place world famous for its golf courses and with a very keen golfer there, they instead played tennis every day and rammed this fact down our throats....but never again have they played...mmmmmmmmm




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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Ribisl on 30.09.12 14:33

@Da Troof wrote:Yes the one complex part of the faked abduction scenario is the involvement or otherwise of the other members of the Tapas 9.

I think there are two possible explanations that are relatively simple.

1. The McC's told their friends about MMcC's "accident" and they all agreed that it would be best to cover it up. This necessarily means the accident took place some time before the evening of May3rd, but could have been that afternoon or early evening. It would also explain the pact between them.

2. Most or all of the Tapas friends were completely unaware of the true story and simply reacted to the story fed them by the McC's at around 22.00 on May 3rd. From what I can gather most/all of them seemed to react in the way one would expect. i.e. raising the alarm, joining the search, etc. The "pact" between them could have been agreed later and have nothing to do with a cover-up, more just an agreement not to say anything else unless they were legally required to do so.

Of course it is entirely possible that something more complicated happened, but I tend to think the most simple explanation is the most likely.

There is one other hypothesis that I have considered: G McC is the only person who really knows what happened to MMcC. He removed her, dead or alive, during his earlier check then simply left Kate to find MMcC missing at 22.00ish. It doesn't quite fit with all the reported statements and evidence, in particular K McC running into the Tapas Bar saying "they've taken her", but I'm not really sure how accurate that reported statement is. Also K McC's fingerprints on the window suggest she was the one who set the abduction scene, but perhaps G told her to open or close the window when he was checking the shutters.
I am drawn to this hypothesis because it means that G McC doesn't have to rely on others keeping quiet. He could be the only one who really knows what happened.

@ Da Troof For a research scientist who claims to value evidence above speculations, I think you are forming rather a lot of opinions without anything to back them up with. Without exercising a certain level of descipline and diligence required to study what evidence that's available in the public domain (because that's all we have to go by - but there is plenty of it, believe me), our discussions would be utterly futile. Wouldn't you agree?

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Re: KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid!)

Post by Ribisl on 30.09.12 14:38

Sorry, Sami/jd, I threw in that comment about tennis for tigger's benefit. It was ME that needed quite a bit of de-stressing!

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