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Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by Cmaryholmes on 26.04.16 18:09

I agree totally. The behaviour of football fans over several decades ( including Heysel) resulted in fans being fenced in,and the general contempt of the police. Those who perpetrated acts of violence over those years at football matches share responsibility for the deaths of the 96 , along with the police in charge at Hillsborough who failed to supervise the crowd properly and who lied to save their own careers.

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by BlueBag on 26.04.16 19:08

@Cmaryholmes wrote:I agree totally. The behaviour of football fans over several decades ( including Heysel) resulted in fans being fenced in,and the general contempt of the police. Those who perpetrated acts of violence over those years at football matches share responsibility for the deaths of the 96 , along with the police in charge at Hillsborough who failed to supervise the crowd properly and who lied to save their own careers.
Thank you.

I traveled with a set of supporters who for the most part were a great laugh - but some of them would do something stupid and some who were outright bad.

Especially the one who lay in wait at New Street Station and stabbed 15 Liverpool fans - he was caught and did time.

If you've never been in a pub having a quiet drink when a gang of opposing football fans run in and smash it up (whilst you decide to desperately find refuge in the loos) then you've never lived.

Football in the 70s and 80s was for the most part a working class beer drinking fighting tribal thing.

Thank god it's not like that any more (for the most part).

Liverpool fans were not saints.. Man Utd fans were worse... Millwall.. ha...

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by jeanmonroe on 26.04.16 21:05

Unlawfully killed, Bent Cops.

Finally, FINALLY...........'THE TRUTH OF THE LIE'!

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by BlueBag on 26.04.16 21:18

I don't know what "unlawful killing" means.

It's pretty vague.

Did the Police set out to kill football fans?

Most certainly not.

Did they make bad decisions that resulted in people being dead?

Yes.

"Unlawful killing" sounds like intent - by persons unknown or unnamed according to the definition.

There was no intent.

Only tragedy.

For which football fans bear some responsibility.

I think we have a political verdict here.

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Re; Hillsborough families braced for the decisions

Post by willowthewisp on 27.04.16 11:11

Hi Bluebag,it surely doesn't matter whether or not it, if it is a political decision, the Police decided to try to concoct evidence to fit an hypothesis that they had decided to follow after a meeting held on the 16th April 1989 by South Yorkshire Police Commanders?
After this meeting,a certain scurrilous paper ran a "Front page" article stating that Liverpool fans had robbed the dead and had Urinated on the Police Officers,Kelvin McKensie has alluded that his story was a bona fide real account of what was supplied to that paper, this same paper in today's paper had decided that the "Jury's decision" Was not front page news,such Hypocrisy and Contempt for Human life?

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 11:29

@willowthewisp wrote:Hi Bluebag,it surely doesn't matter whether or not it, if it is a political decision, the Police decided to try to concoct evidence to fit an hypothesis that they had decided to follow after a meeting held on the 16th April 1989 by South Yorkshire Police Commanders?
After this meeting,a certain scurrilous paper ran a "Front page" article stating that Liverpool fans had robbed the dead and had Urinated on the Police Officers,Kelvin McKensie has alluded that his story was a bona fide real account of what was supplied to that paper, this same paper in today's paper had decided that the "Jury's decision" Was not front page news,such Hypocrisy and Contempt for Human life?
I know!

The Police were guilty of cover-up of their horrendous mistakes that day and the press were despicable.

All I'm saying is that football fans themselves have blood on their hands too - I wish they would have the decency to admit it.

If it wasn't for their shocking behavior in the 15 years previous (including Heysel where people died because of Liverpool thuggery) then there would be no pens, no fences and Policing would have been entirely different.

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Re; Hillsborough families braced for the decisions

Post by willowthewisp on 27.04.16 12:35

@BlueBag wrote:
@willowthewisp wrote:Hi Bluebag,it surely doesn't matter whether or not it, if it is a political decision, the Police decided to try to concoct evidence to fit an hypothesis that they had decided to follow after a meeting held on the 16th April 1989 by South Yorkshire Police Commanders?
After this meeting,a certain scurrilous paper ran a "Front page" article stating that Liverpool fans had robbed the dead and had Urinated on the Police Officers,Kelvin McKensie has alluded that his story was a bona fide real account of what was supplied to that paper, this same paper in today's paper had decided that the "Jury's decision" Was not front page news,such Hypocrisy and Contempt for Human life?
I know!

The Police were guilty of cover-up of their horrendous mistakes that day and the press were despicable.

All I'm saying is that football fans themselves have blood on their hands too - I wish they would have the decency to admit it.

If it wasn't for their shocking behavior in the 15 years previous (including Heysel where people died because of Liverpool thuggery) then there would be no pens, no fences and Policing would have been entirely different.
Hi Bluebag,I do not understand your comments being solely directed to Liverpool Fans,Heysel disaster, then stating the back to the 1970's and football fans?
Just because elements in society determine that they wished to use the football event as a legitimate means for violence,is no excuse for the action they undertake/took against innocent people caught up in their escapades?
The Police on behalf of the"Establishment"where forced to Police these events, to try to to control the person's using the football event as a means to the gratification they got from inducing violence to other persons,"Regardless of whether they were up for it or not" it is still misconduct of public decency,in the public's right to a peaceful life?
It is no excuse to "Frame people/fit them up" which we have now seen been done by the Police,"Birmingham Six" Jill Dando's and Daniel Morgan's unsolved Murders costing millions of pounds from the public purse, sanctioned by our MP's,via the Home secretary in the seeking of the Truth of what actually happened to a "person" taken from their families forever,by murderers?
It is wrong to discredit genuine football supporters in this way of the actions of a minority disguising themselves as supporters of whatever club they choose to follow, for their violent behaviour in a football club's disguise!

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 12:52

It is wrong to discredit genuine football supporters



I'm not discrediting law-abiding football supporters.


However there were thousands per club up and down the country responsible for the pens and fences being in place and the draconian policing methods.


Many Liverpool fans among them.


Look at what happened at Heysel.


People died because of these people.


You can't just blame the Police.

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 12:57

This is what it was like.


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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 13:08

Watch and weep.

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Re; Hillsborough families braced for the decisions

Post by willowthewisp on 27.04.16 13:37

@BlueBag wrote:
It is wrong to discredit genuine football supporters



I'm not discrediting law-abiding football supporters.


However there were thousands per club up and down the country responsible for the pens and fences being in place and the draconian policing methods.


Many Liverpool fans among them.


Look at what happened at Heysel.


People died because of these people.


You can't just blame the Police.
Hi Bluebag,thanks for you reply to my post,if as you state in your reply of draconian Policing methods using fences and pens, these were sanctioned by the Police as a means of the Health and Safety grounds for Football clubs to follow,under the FA Rule and regulations to permit Clubs to hold the games?
This is not an excuse as to the tragic events hat happened at the Heysel stadium and the 39 deaths and injuries to the supporters,but for three successive years there had been issues with crowd control problems associated to Sheffield Wednesday's ground and decisions to hold Semi-Finals there, they were in breach of their certificate to hold games at their ground at the time of Hillsborough 15th April 1989, was this also 86/87/88?
Is the Football Association liable for any compensation,negligence?
There was problems highlighted to Authorities prior to the European, final, Heysel event and these were part of the investigation process after the appalling deaths and part of the outcome it became apparent that the ground had problems surrounding crowd control.of who should have had what part of the ground and the ticket allocation, selling of tickets to opposing fans, for parts in the stadium,I am not using this as an excuse for the violence attributed by the Liverpool Fans?
Were UFEA responsible for the allocation of the ground for the Final,negligence?
Since these disasters have happened, the safety aspect of all fans has to recognised and new regulations have been introduced, taking into account previous findings via Heysel and Hillsborough tragedies to provide a safe environment for everyone. 
It is not a blame game,Human beings,Adults and young people lost their lives whilst attending a public event of which the relevant Authorities have a duty of care to the people under their control at the time of the event?

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by BlueBag on 27.04.16 13:47

You have perfect hindsight.


It is not a blame game,

Except for blaming the Police it seems.

I stand by what I said.

No pens and fences, no deaths at Hillsborough.

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Re; Hillsborough families braced for the decisions

Post by willowthewisp on 27.04.16 13:54

We'll agree to disagree.

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by Mirage on 27.04.16 13:59

I am old enough to remember the blight of football hooliganism in the 70's and 80's and it was terrible. The Heysel stadium rampage in particular. It was a widespread sport to attend a football match as an excuse for brawling on the terraces. I was actually waiting to watch the match at Hillsborough on TV as the scene unfolded. Nothing suggested to me the movement or scenario of a Heysel situation: it never entered my head.

What is at issue here is the serial lying by those in charge, from the outset and continuing, in the face of all reason and evidence, down 27 tortuous years. The sort of suffering this has caused, IMO, is on a par with the refusal of Brady to reveal Keith Bennett's body and put his poor mother out of her lifelong agony. That, for me, is at the core of this - the cruel, self-serving, backside-covering for which there is no excuse and for which blame simply had to be cast elsewhere. And let's not forget, we are talking about wantonly perverting the course of justice here (misconduct in public office) by those charged with bringing such offenders to justice every day of the week. People who are promoted to positions of huge authority and trust on the basis of their calibre, leadership abilities and moral fibre.

With regard to the climate of hooliganism: had the officer in charge, held his hand up to a mistake (and I don't underestimate the bravery needed to do so) he would have certainly faced charges. However, with the cages in situ and the febrile state of football at the time, (which BB has graphically and realistically portrayed) a good lawyer would have pleaded mitigating circumstances.

But in the end, another route was chosen, and with it came the vilification of the dead. A deliberate choice was made to enjoin the press, principally the Sun, to promulgate this view of the dead. And, as someone said on Radio 4's Today programme last evening, once a particular view is circulated and repeated in the press in the early stages of an incident, it becomes embedded in the public psyche. It often proves impossible to shift public perception, even when the facts emerge. And this really is a further grief for the bereaved to this day.

I blame the fans for the Heysel outrage. I blame the police for the Hillsborough outrage. Every situation is to be judged on its evidence, not prejudged. The simple fact is, the guilty among the police hijacked hooliganism as an excuse and hid behind it.

And even when the genie was out of the bottle, the inquest took two years to complete because of the ongoing desire for someone to continue the self-serving route of reputation management.

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

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Re; Hillsborough families braced for the decisions

Post by willowthewisp on 27.04.16 14:11

Hi Mirage, thank you for your well put post,agree totally with the posting and it is a pity that persons need violence or aggression aspects in life, as after all is said and done,the attendance at a football game allows a lot of people to let off steam in some sort of way.

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by sallypelt on 27.04.16 17:36

"Police chief suspended over Hillsborough"

Is he suspended WITH pay? He's due to retire in September.   You can't make this up.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

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Re: Hillsborough: Families Braced For Revelations

Post by sallypelt on 27.04.16 17:38

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36149872


Was it only the once that he was "duped" or are there other examples?

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