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Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by Guest on 06.09.12 23:14

There are a couple of things that have struck me:
- the father sitting in the front seat
- two women, his wife and the grandmother sitting in the back seats
- who has been sitting next to the driver seat?
- two children under age, would have been in the back [where one was found]
- "normal" would have been e.g. father & mother in the front seats & grandmother in the back with the children.
- all adult victims were hit in the head. It takes a marksman to do that fast enough to hit all three that way
- the British tourist, who raised the alarm reportedly said he had past the biker, who was killed, shortly before, so the murder took place also shortly before.
- if that was shortly before and there was a round of min. 15 bullets, why didn't he hear anything?
Just wondering ...


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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by russiandoll on 06.09.12 23:28

A woman nearby stated that she heard approx 30 secs of gunfire then total silence.


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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by bobbin on 06.09.12 23:37

@russiandoll wrote: A woman nearby stated that she heard approx 30 secs of gunfire then total silence.


Hello russiandoll, Where did you see that a woman heard gunfire please.
The cyclist gave an eight hour statement to the police. There was a child booster seat in the front passenger seat. The cyclist did not hear any gunfire. The area is such that any gun fire ricochets back and forth off the mountains. Even a single shot to kill a deer or wild boar tells everyone in the whole valley that a gun has gone off.

It is important to know if someone did hear firing, because if they didn't, then a silencer must have been used with all of its implications of deliberate and calculated assassination versus a random mad-man firing off at will.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by russiandoll on 06.09.12 23:44

Hi bobbin, I saw a brief clip of a woman speaking to a reporter, what looked like a French news item. I will try to find a link to it....
All speculation so far because police are keeping cards close to chests, all sorts in the British press as predicted........police had been tracking the father's movements, security services held a file on him. A sensational story full of intrigue will get saturation coverage, God help the family.

no luck so far....I paid attention because it surprised me. She was blonde , standing with a bike and made the sounds of the gunshots. You know what I am thinking now..I was listening to her plus a voice over and due to the sensational nature of the story, either it was misreported due to its shock value or I have misheard or not heard some details.... she definitely stood there , made these noises, I heard her say gunshots followed by silence.....

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by bobbin on 06.09.12 23:54

@russiandoll wrote: Hi bobbin, I saw a brief clip of a woman speaking to a reporter, what looked like a French news item. I will try to find a link to it....
All speculation so far because police are keeping cards close to chests, all sorts in the British press as predicted........police had been tracking the father's movements, security services held a file on him. A sensational story full of intrigue will get saturation coverage, God help the family.

I'll pm you but it is important to be able to determine if it was a selected hit, or a mad random act. It is horrific.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by ShuBob on 07.09.12 0:11

I also saw the interview on the BBC with a woman on a bicycle speaking in French saying she heard gunfire lasting about 30 seconds. If she did indeed hear it, it's curious that the cyclist who came across the crime scene didn't hear it as well given that according to his account, he had been overtaken not long before by the cyclist who was killed.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by PeterMac on 07.09.12 8:42

Sky reporting it may have been a dispute between brothers over money.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by russiandoll on 07.09.12 9:41

I am glad the British ambassador is refusing to rise to the bait he is constantly presented with regarding the discovery of the 4 year old 8 hours after the discovery of the car and bodies inside. This was very disturbing and upsetting to hear, this extra trauma piled on top of what the little one had been subjected to and I am sure the police were devastated when she was found. To my mind the ambassador is well aware of the road the media are attempting to lead him down. It is a pity that the British forensic expert and the former murder detective spoken to by Sky yesterday did not behave in the same way. I think to refrain from crtiticism of a fellow professional simply out of loyalty to a profession is wrong, however it could not be clearer to any observant viewer that the asked-for comparisons were not well-motivated. The " how would the UK have done things differently ?" said it all, not " would the UK have done it differently?". The starting point of the discussion was that indeed the UK would not have acted in the same way, procedures are different and without stating it explicitly, the final insinuation was that this little girl would have been discovered at the initial examination of the vehicle. The public prosecutor and the British ambassador were both very clear that the police in France and the UK are working well together to solve this crime and that the children are getting the best possible medical care and support in France.


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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by ShuBob on 07.09.12 10:07

Perhaps, John O'Connor and his fellow rent-a-gobs are forgetting the very fresh details in the Tia Sharp case. British policing at it's finest! Really, what's the point of pointing the finger at others when your own house isn't in order?

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by russiandoll on 07.09.12 10:14

Hi Shubob,
They are very easily manipulated, the ex -murder man who was speaking to Sky, [ forgot his name ,sorry] said twice that he did not want to criticise fellow police officers and was so well -manipulated by his interviewer that after failing to do what he said, he was then given a second lot of bait which he rose to admirably .

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by bobbin on 07.09.12 10:20

Does anyone know anything about companies being dissolved.

Just looking at AMS 1087 Limited, the company to which the murdered man was secretary, it appears
to function with a net worth of around £1,518. https://www.duedil.com/company/04125692/ams-1087-limited

http://www.192.com/atoz/business/swindon-sn5/aerial-photographers-surveys/ams-1087-ltd/da0fdced136609473e89847f4bf2ed7ff299cf21/comp/ activity claimed as aerial photography etc

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/04125692 activity claimed as ‘other engineering activities’

AMS limited has opened hundreds of companies since around 2000 and most of them have been dissolved.

http://www.cdrex.com/ams-1092-limited-366779.html scroll down to ‘the following companies’ and look at their operating status.

Very few are still active and some are proposing to become dissolved. Many seem to function around the ‘exemption/small’ level in
terms of reporting on the accounts.
I know very little about companies, but AMS limited apparently, is also an accountancy company. Does anyone know if it is the norm to open and then dissolve so many companies.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by ShuBob on 07.09.12 10:41

@russiandoll wrote: Hi Shubob,
They are very easily manipulated, the ex -murder man who was speaking to Sky, [ forgot his name ,sorry] said twice that he did not want to criticise fellow police officers and was so well -manipulated by his interviewer that after failing to do what he said, he was then given a second lot of bait which he rose to admirably .

Lol. I suppose the old saying that "he who pays the piper dictates the tune" is the order of the day. Sky is very good at it!

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by PeterMac on 07.09.12 11:46

@bobbin wrote:SNIP
I know very little about companies, but AMS limited apparently, is also an accountancy company. Does anyone know if it is the norm to open and then dissolve so many companies.
Yes, but usually only in the context of dubious activity.

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French murders

Post by Guest on 07.09.12 22:32

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/07/french-alps-shooting-four-officers-sent-to-britain_n_1865825.html?ncid=edlinusaolp00000003#slide=more248851

Some up-to-date news - it now seems that the older woman who was killed is not a family member and as yet she hasn't been identified.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by aquila on 08.09.12 7:15

Can someone explain something to me please? I notice that if a crime takes place in another country the UK press publish all sorts of stuff and allow comments even before it is investigated. If the crime takes place in UK before charges are brought comments cannot be accepted for legal reasons. So, if the crime of 'abduction' happened to Madeleine in Portugal and there were no charges brought upon her parents who returned to UK how come the UK press were under scrutiny? The crime happened off our shores. Have the rules changed? It's not that I like UK press but it seems to me there is one rule for some and another rule for others. Just a simple question.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by aiyoyo on 08.09.12 7:47

Shocked British neighbours of a family who were brutally murdered in the French Alps have described a "lovely" Iraqi couple who were often seen taking their children to school.
More than a dozen police stood on Thursday outside the large detached house in Claygate, a leafy residential district of Surrey to the southwest of London, owned by the al-Hilli family, the presumed victims of Wednesday's attack.
French police sources have confirmed that 50-year-old Saad al-Hilli, an Iraqi-born businessman who lived in Surrey with his family, was one of the four people found dead in a forest car park near the village of Chevaline.
A four-year-old girl, believed to be Hilli's daughter, survived the attack by curling up under the bullet-riddled corpses of her mother and grandmother.
The girl's sister is undergoing surgery in a French hospital after she was shot in the shoulder and suffered multiple, "extremely violent" blows to the head, a French prosecutor said.
French police have not officially confirmed the identities of the three people found dead in the British-registered BMW estate car. The fourth victim, a cyclist who arrived at the scene by chance, was named as Sylvain Mollier.
Friends and neighbours of the Hilli family in Claygate, an area popular with well-off finance sector workers commuting to London, said Saad was an engineer and his wife Iqbal was a dentist.
A profile on the LinkedIn business networking website describes Saad al-Hilli, who was found dead in the driver's seat, as a consultant in the aviation and aerospace industry.
His accountant Julian Stedman told AFP that Hilli was a director of Shtech Limited, an aerospace firm he set up in 2001, while another friend described him as a computer design expert.
"I never dreamed it would be him. It's a total and utter shock to me," Stedman told AFP outside the house.
He described Hilli as a hard-working but "jovial" man who had taken a caravan on holiday with them to the French Alps last week.
Asked if Hilli had any enemies, Stedman said: "None that I know of."
He added that the elderly woman found dead in the car, who had a Swedish passport, was Hilli's mother-in-law.
A friend of the family who gave his name as James said Saad al-Hilli had been raised in London. The family had left Iraq in the 1970s after Iraq's Baath Party seized the family business, he added.
"Saad was the perfect father and a wonderful engineer," James said. "He was a keen cyclist. He was a good friend, a close friend."
Another friend, who delivered a bunch of white flowers to the house that were taken by a uniformed policeman, described Hilli as "a nice guy".
Local mothers said they had often seen the family taking their daughters to school.
"We used to see the couple on the school run," one local woman told AFP. "They were lovely, they were very friendly people with really sweet little girls."
Postman Gary Standford said Hilli had "seemed a pleasant man".
"He'd been living here for about three years," Standford said.
A Surrey police spokeswoman said the force was assisting French authorities in the investigation.

According to this article he was
A businessman
An engineer
Consultant in aviation and aerospace industry
Director of an aerospace company
Computer design expert.




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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by tigger on 08.09.12 7:59

Châtelaine wrote:There are a couple of things that have struck me:
- the father sitting in the front seat
- two women, his wife and the grandmother sitting in the back seats
- who has been sitting next to the driver seat?
- two children under age, would have been in the back [where one was found]
- "normal" would have been e.g. father & mother in the front seats & grandmother in the back with the children.
- all adult victims were hit in the head. It takes a marksman to do that fast enough to hit all three that way
- the British tourist, who raised the alarm reportedly said he had past the biker, who was killed, shortly before, so the murder took place also shortly before.
- if that was shortly before and there was a round of min. 15 bullets, why didn't he hear anything?
Just wondering ...


There might not have been anybody in the passenger seat. Even in France it is 'normal' for the women to sit in the back and the men in front. I would expect the same in Iraqi culture. If there was another person in the car, it's likely a man.
I'm not making this up, I lived in France from 03 to 08 and have French friends. One friend decided to sit in the front next to her husband and to let her in-laws sit in the back. The husband was furious as were his parents. She and I used to sit in the back whilst her husband drove.
Another friend of hers (and these are all educated professional people) had much the same story to tell.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by bobbin on 08.09.12 8:07

@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:There are a couple of things that have struck me:
- the father sitting in the front seat
- two women, his wife and the grandmother sitting in the back seats
- who has been sitting next to the driver seat?
- two children under age, would have been in the back [where one was found]
- "normal" would have been e.g. father & mother in the front seats & grandmother in the back with the children.
- all adult victims were hit in the head. It takes a marksman to do that fast enough to hit all three that way
- the British tourist, who raised the alarm reportedly said he had past the biker, who was killed, shortly before, so the murder took place also shortly before.
- if that was shortly before and there was a round of min. 15 bullets, why didn't he hear anything?
Just wondering ...


There might not have been anybody in the passenger seat. Even in France it is 'normal' for the women to sit in the back and the men in front. I would expect the same in Iraqi culture. If there was another person in the car, it's likely a man.
I'm not making this up, I lived in France from 03 to 08 and have French friends. One friend decided to sit in the front next to her husband and to let her in-laws sit in the back. The husband was furious as were his parents. She and I used to sit in the back whilst her husband drove.
Another friend of hers (and these are all educated professional people) had much the same story to tell.

The front passenger seat had a child booster seat in it.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by aiyoyo on 08.09.12 8:58

[quote="russiandoll"]
@aiyoyo wrote:I cant get my head round when and why she got out of the car at all.
One would have thought if she was going out to get help she would have waited until the killer was gone.

This girl was shot in the shoulder and badly pistol-whipped according to the police. Am I right in thinking you were surprised to hear that all victims were inside and she was the only one on the road? She could have been dragged out of the car before being beaten. If she did get out of her own accord after being injured, it was probably not to get help, she would have been too traumatised emotionally and badly hurt physically to think clearly. I would imagine if she was left injured in the car and climbed out, she was simply trying to get the hell away from what was inside From what I heard about her injuries I doubt she got out of that car herself, though; she was in such a bad state that the prosecutor said the cyclist who found her and attended to her probably saved her life.. She is in an induced coma to help her recover from a fractured skull. God bless her and the little one hiding for hours in the car....I guess the 8 year old will need the same psychiatric care as her sister is receiving when she is conscious, 2 young orphans who will be traumatised for years.
Let's not forget the French cyclist, a local father of 3 it is reported, who is also dead. It is gruesome and so sad.

Personally I don't think she was dragged out of the car before being beaten.
Not consistent pattern of a killer who had just cold-bloodedly pumped bullets into the adults.
It would be just as easy to spend a few more bullets if the intention is to exterminate everyone inside the car.
It makes no sense to pump bullets into the adults inside the car only to drag the child outside for execution.

It says she was hit in the shoulder and had a fractured skull.
Maybe the children were to be spared but in the confined interior of the car being sandwiched between two adults she was inevitably caught in the firing and maybe a miss-aimed bullet hit her.

I think maybe in her injured state she might have been dragging herself as far away from the car as possible to get help for herself and her sister she knew was unhurt and hidden underneath one adult; and in her disorientated, dazed, and shell-shocked state she either passed out or fell and concurred herself.

Hit man does not leave behind survival, even children are not spared.
This blood culling execution if not the doing of a lone mad-man, or contract job, could only mean the killer or gang was known at least to the man if not the family. I say the man because the wife was a dentist and I cannot envisage dentist having enemy of that extreme kind.
I hate to say this but there may be a religion aspect to this if the man's country of origin has anything to do with it.

Reportedly the man had been under security services' radar for a while, meaning he was 'target of interest' for a reason.
Could the reason be illegal activities or secret service activities, one of the two. What else could a person be under surveillance for?





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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by aiyoyo on 08.09.12 9:06

@bobbin wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:There are a couple of things that have struck me:
- the father sitting in the front seat
- two women, his wife and the grandmother sitting in the back seats
- who has been sitting next to the driver seat?
- two children under age, would have been in the back [where one was found]
- "normal" would have been e.g. father & mother in the front seats & grandmother in the back with the children.
- all adult victims were hit in the head. It takes a marksman to do that fast enough to hit all three that way
- the British tourist, who raised the alarm reportedly said he had past the biker, who was killed, shortly before, so the murder took place also shortly before.
- if that was shortly before and there was a round of min. 15 bullets, why didn't he hear anything?
Just wondering ...


There might not have been anybody in the passenger seat. Even in France it is 'normal' for the women to sit in the back and the men in front. I would expect the same in Iraqi culture. If there was another person in the car, it's likely a man.
I'm not making this up, I lived in France from 03 to 08 and have French friends. One friend decided to sit in the front next to her husband and to let her in-laws sit in the back. The husband was furious as were his parents. She and I used to sit in the back whilst her husband drove.
Another friend of hers (and these are all educated professional people) had much the same story to tell.

The front passenger seat had a child booster seat in it.

How odd the booster seat wasn't put away. It's dead easy to remove and leave it in the boot.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by bobbin on 08.09.12 9:14

@aiyoyo wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:There are a couple of things that have struck me:
- the father sitting in the front seat
- two women, his wife and the grandmother sitting in the back seats
- who has been sitting next to the driver seat?
- two children under age, would have been in the back [where one was found]
- "normal" would have been e.g. father & mother in the front seats & grandmother in the back with the children.
- all adult victims were hit in the head. It takes a marksman to do that fast enough to hit all three that way
- the British tourist, who raised the alarm reportedly said he had past the biker, who was killed, shortly before, so the murder took place also shortly before.
- if that was shortly before and there was a round of min. 15 bullets, why didn't he hear anything?
Just wondering ...


There might not have been anybody in the passenger seat. Even in France it is 'normal' for the women to sit in the back and the men in front. I would expect the same in Iraqi culture. If there was another person in the car, it's likely a man.
I'm not making this up, I lived in France from 03 to 08 and have French friends. One friend decided to sit in the front next to her husband and to let her in-laws sit in the back. The husband was furious as were his parents. She and I used to sit in the back whilst her husband drove.
Another friend of hers (and these are all educated professional people) had much the same story to tell.

The front passenger seat had a child booster seat in it.

How odd the booster seat wasn't put away. It's dead easy to remove and leave it in the boot.
But as tigger says, perhaps the ladies wanted to sit in the back with the little girl in between them, and the other little girl was sitting next to her daddy. It's all possible.

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by Guest on 08.09.12 9:49

On different note: within 2 days from the killing there are 4 French policemen in London "dans le cadre d'une commission rogatoire internationale." Reportedly they will assist in house searching and interviews. It makes one wonder again why it took MONTHS before the rogatory interviews of witnesses were allowed in the McCann case ...

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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by Guest on 08.09.12 9:54

8 September 2012 Last updated at 09:24

France shootings: Police to search Saad al-Hilli home

Police plan to search the al-Hilli family home as part of their investigation

The home of a British man shot dead in the French Alps along with his wife and two others is to be searched by police.

French prosecutor Eric Maillaud said British and French officers would enter the home of Iraq-born Saad al-Hilli, 50, in Claygate, Surrey.

Brother Zaid al-Hilli has denied a family dispute over money, which is one line of inquiry in the investigation.

Relatives of Mr al-Hilli's two young daughters, who survived Wednesday's attack, have arrived in France.

The girls, aged seven and four, are believed to be the only witnesses to the killings, carried out near the popular tourist destination of Lake Annecy, and are under police protection.

Three police officers from France are thought to have arrived in the UK already to investigate the shootings, and a fourth officer is due to arrive later.

The most senior of the four, Colonel Marc de Tarle, who heads the National Gendarmerie Criminal Affairs Bureau, was the first to arrive.

Mr Maillaud said French officers would interview Mr al-Hilli's brother in the UK as a "witness".

Franco-British inquiry

Surrey Police said they were helping French authorities to carry out a "complex" investigation.

Continue reading the main story Saad al-Hilli and his family arrive at the Solitaire du Lac camp site on Monday. Close to the shores of Lac Annecy, in the Haute Savoie region of France, the area is popular with British tourists. They pitch their tents next to their caravan, shown above.
A former RAF serviceman who was on holiday in the area, is cycling on this forest road where he is passed by another cyclist, Frenchman Sylvain Mollier. Just south of the village of Chevaline, the road winds up a steep hill through a thickly forested area.
Minutes later, the British cyclist comes across Mr al-Hilli's BMW in this lay-by, its engine running. There he discovers the French cyclist with a fatal bullet wound to the head and seven-year-old Zainab al-Hilli who had been badly beaten and had a gunshot wound to the shoulder.
He puts Zainab in the recovery position, calls for assistance and breaks the driver's window to reach in and turn off the car's engine. Inside the vehicle, Saad al-Hilli is slumped over the steering wheel. In the back are his dead wife and mother-in-law. Three of the four victims were shot in the middle of the head.
Also inside the car is Zainab's four-year-old sister Zeena, who is hiding in the back of the car under the legs of the dead women. French police on the scene are told not to disturb the crime scene and do not open the doors for fear of shattering the glass which has bullet holes in it.
Eight hours later, police re-examine the car and pull Zeena, "terrorised and motionless", from the car. The search was made after investigators spoke to neighbours at the campsite who said there were two children. An earlier search using a thermal camera on a helicopter had not detected the child.
Continue reading the main story
previous slide next slide 1/6"As part of this, the force is facilitating a visit by French investigators to conduct inquiries in the UK," a spokesman said.

The BBC understands the family home was originally owned by Saad al-Hilli's parents and later left to him by his mother in her will.

Police plan to search the house as part of efforts to gather background information about Mr al-Hilli.

Mr Maillaud said: "Up until now the police in Britain were guaranteeing the safety of the house but now it's a Franco-British inquiry that is starting and we can now enter the house of Mr al-Hilli."

Mr al-Hilli's daughters are believed to be the only witnesses to Wednesday's killings
Mr al-Hilli's wife, Iqbal, and a woman thought to be his 74-year-old mother-in-law, were killed during the attack.

The fourth victim, a cyclist whose body was found near the car after apparently stumbling across the attack, has been named as 45-year-old Sylvain Mollier.

Mr Maillaud said four-year-old daughter Zeena al-Hilli - who spent eight hours hiding in the car with the bodies before being found by officers - had identified her family and described the "fury" and "terror" of the attack to French police.

The child said she was between her mother and the older woman - who have not yet been officially named - and hid under her mother's skirt when the shooting started.

The older sister, Zainab, is in a medically-induced coma in Grenoble University Hospital after being shot once and suffering head injuries.

She was found by a British cyclist who discovered the murder scene and alerted the authorities.

Vehicle sightings

The BBC's Mark Lowen, in Annecy, said: "Prosecutors hope that if she recovers, she may provide the key to what happened here in this tranquil corner of France, and who is to blame."

Relatives of the girls arrived in France on Friday night, accompanied by a British social worker, and were due to meet Zeena later, Mr Maillaud said.

Prosecutor Eric Maillaud: "The brother went to see police to find out how his brother was and said 'no, I don't have a conflict with him'"
"I don't know when they will be able to see the little girl. We have to be sure it can be done without problems," he told AFP news agency.

During a press conference on Friday, the prosecutor confirmed that each of the victims had at least one bullet in the head, and about 25 shots were fired in total - more than originally thought.

This has led investigators to believe that more than one gun was used in the killings.

They are looking into reports of a green or dark-coloured four-wheel drive vehicle and a motorcycle, apparently seen by the cyclist who discovered the murder scene. But Mr Maillaud pointed out that such vehicles were common during the tourist season in a mountainous region

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19527763




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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by Newintown on 08.09.12 13:04

I read somewhere that when the cyclist got to the scene and the car's engine was still running, he smashed the driver's window to turn off the engine as the car doors were locked.

Therefore the daughter must have already been outside the car, probably as someone mentioned earlier, to relieve herself and the attackers didn't know she was there if she was in the bushes until she came out after hearing the shots. The father must have seen the gunman approaching the car and locked the doors in a panic leaving her outside.

It was also mentioned somewhere that the gunman must have run out of bullets after hitting her in the shoulder and bludgeoned her with the empty gun before making a getaway.

I was wondering if the family may have been enticed to the car park for some reason and the gunman was waiting for them, or they may have come across a drug's deal which was going on and got caught up in the middle of it.

What a terrible, terrible tragedy and for the two girls to lose both parents, and grandmother, in such a way. The horror of it all will live with them for a very long time.

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"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"


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Re: Preserve the Crime Scene ! Alps Murders

Post by aiyoyo on 08.09.12 16:08

@bobbin wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@bobbin wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:There are a couple of things that have struck me:
- the father sitting in the front seat
- two women, his wife and the grandmother sitting in the back seats
- who has been sitting next to the driver seat?
- two children under age, would have been in the back [where one was found]
- "normal" would have been e.g. father & mother in the front seats & grandmother in the back with the children.
- all adult victims were hit in the head. It takes a marksman to do that fast enough to hit all three that way
- the British tourist, who raised the alarm reportedly said he had past the biker, who was killed, shortly before, so the murder took place also shortly before.
- if that was shortly before and there was a round of min. 15 bullets, why didn't he hear anything?
Just wondering ...


There might not have been anybody in the passenger seat. Even in France it is 'normal' for the women to sit in the back and the men in front. I would expect the same in Iraqi culture. If there was another person in the car, it's likely a man.
I'm not making this up, I lived in France from 03 to 08 and have French friends. One friend decided to sit in the front next to her husband and to let her in-laws sit in the back. The husband was furious as were his parents. She and I used to sit in the back whilst her husband drove.
Another friend of hers (and these are all educated professional people) had much the same story to tell.

The front passenger seat had a child booster seat in it.

How odd the booster seat wasn't put away. It's dead easy to remove and leave it in the boot.
But as tigger says, perhaps the ladies wanted to sit in the back with the little girl in between them, and the other little girl was sitting next to her daddy. It's all possible.

Would a seven year old need booster seat ? I wouldn't have thought so but it's possible of course.
As a general rule people refer children not to seat in front for safety reason.

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