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The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by tigger on 02.09.12 9:06

I'm 'cross referencing' posts here. Just posted this in Charlotte Pennington.

One wrote: quote:
Does anyone know why JT and ROB both insisted in their rogs that CP was on their Gatwick flight as opposed to the EMA? To me it seems a trivial thing to be hung up on when you consider the issues they'd have. unquote.

Tigger wrote:
Might that too have been arranged at the Rothley meeting? Because if CP came on the EMA flight, which I would think to be likely if she was in fact their nanny - that would draw attention to the early closeness of CP to the family. unquote.

To my mind we have reconstructed two items on the agenda: JT and ROB were allowed to state they had a baby monitor.
JT and ROB had to say that Charlotte Pennington was on their flight from Gatwick.





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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by jd on 02.09.12 11:33

Kennedy personally spoke to Martin Smith

A report by Detective Sergeant Liam Hogan of the Irish Guardia, based in Drogheda, County Lough, refers to Mr. Kennedy contacting Mr Smith -

“I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested.“He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy, who is supporting the McCann family, to take part in a photo-fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits."

“Why did Kennedy contact Martin Smith?”


Then there was Kennedy's involvement with Gail Cooper, the lady who claims to have 'sighted' Monster Man

According to Gail Cooper, it was Brian Kennedy who arranged for her to meet the ‘forensic artist’, Melissa Little.”

In his letter to the LP Bennett queried how Kennedy and his investigators found Cooper in the first place, and why Kennedy seemed anxious to find and promote witnesses who backed up the abduction claim . It's possible that Gail Cooper made contact with the McCann’s private investigators offering information.


Paul Gordon, another witness in the McCann case, was contacted directly by Kennedy.

In a statement, Gordon said, “To the best of my knowledge I never met the McCann family and never delivered the key to anyone other than the staff of Mark Warner…I want to add that since January this year I have received numerous phone calls, messages and visits from the press regarding the collector of donations, which in turn put me in contact with other people such as Brian Kennedy, Kate and Gerry McCann. I feel that this is a constraint that makes it difficult to take the more correct decision…I tried always to cooperate with the police in every way possible…There are certain times when I feel like a pawn in chess”.


Brian Kennedy's Meetings with Robert Murat in Portugal, November 2007


It was Francisco Pagarete, Mr Murat’s Portuguese lawyer who confirmed that a meeting involving Brian Kennedy took place at Mr Murat’s uncle’s house in the Algarve in November. He told the BBC: “[Brian Kennedy] came here to give his support to Robert and to say he doesn’t believe Robert was involved in this story in any way or sense. And he asked if Robert could help the investigation for the finding of Madeleine in any way”. Mr Pagarete added that Mr Kennedy had ‘promised to stay in touch with Mr Murat’ but ‘had not contacted him since’. Mr Pagarete also confirmed that Edward Smethurst was at the meeting.

This evening meeting was either on the same day, or very close to, the meeting that Brian Kennedy had with the Portuguese Police on 13 November 2007 . The two Portuguese Police Inspectors, Ferreira and Paiva, later submitted an account of their meeting with Brian Kennedy.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/category/the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann/brian-kennedy/


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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by russiandoll on 02.09.12 11:54

Was this behaviour not interfering with witnesses/potential witnesses and is this not a criminal offence? Staggering every time I read about this behaviour.

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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by jd on 02.09.12 12:59

@russiandoll wrote: Was this behaviour not interfering with witnesses/potential witnesses and is this not a criminal offence? Staggering every time I read about this behaviour.

Exactly. Unbelievable he is not brought to justice, maybe because the fairytale crime was committed not on UK soil is why he gets away with it?

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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by russiandoll on 02.09.12 15:36

@jd wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: Was this behaviour not interfering with witnesses/potential witnesses and is this not a criminal offence? Staggering every time I read about this behaviour.

Exactly. Unbelievable he is not brought to justice, maybe because the fairytale crime was committed not on UK soil is why he gets away with it?

Lord knows jd.....if he was behaving like this while the McCanns had their arguido status and an investigation was ongoing, this activity would have amounted to a crime I would have thought; I don't understand why he was not taken to task abroad.

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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by tigger on 02.10.12 17:46

Finn pointed out in another topic re the rogatories that the McCanns requested the rogatory interviews and supplied the PJ with a list of witnesses they wanted them to interview.
This turns out to be far more interesting than I thought so here I've copied the post in the other topic because it supports the damage limitation that was going on under the surface imo. Note that there is no request at all to interview witnesses so that Maddie can be found, the request is mainly to support the McCanns.

Processo Volume XI, pages 3030 to 3034

Faxed from Society of Attorneys 16 Oct 2007 to Ministerio Publico in Portimao.

GERALD PATRICK MCCANN and KATE MARIE HEALY, better identified in the documents referenced above, approach, very respectfully, to set forth and request, Sir, the following:

1 - Since the applicants stopped being considered witnesses, moving to suspects of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, witnesses central to the discovery of truth were not questioned, or re-questioned.

2 - With the recent investigations, witness interviews and interrogations of the applicants, new questions were raised and doubts aroused, broadening, in this way, the object of the investigation, as well as matters of fact considered relevant to the investigations.

3 - Indeed, the Investigation departed from confining itself to the disappearance of the minor, proceeding to embrace other matters, allegedly connected with her.

4 - It is therefore essential to hear these witnesses who can explain facts now very relevant, such as the way the couple treated their children, their personality and routine and, even, the reactions manifested by them after the disappearance and the consequent psychological and emotional state.

5 - So, and because it is believed essential and indispensable for the establishment of the facts and consequent discovery of the truth, they come to request the hearing of the following groups of witnesses, all present and with direct knowledge of the facts:
Unquote (see Finn's reference above for the rest)

Thank you for that, I can see now that they were advised to use their status as arguidos - which gives them more rights under Portuguese law - to ask for a bunch of friendly witnesses to be heard.
We then have the Rothley meeting in mid November, where the answers to be given in the rogatories were thrashed out. The PJ also had the right to interview McCann and Healy as much and as long as they liked. That wasn't to their liking and that must have been one of the reasons Jaqui Smith held up the process.
Although the document referred to above give very pointed guidlines as to which questions should be asked, the PJ had their own list of questions, which no doubt they didn't make public. So that explains the errrmms and youknows - the stalling in the rogatories.
It's rather satisfying to find that the rogatories have been far more informative than the McCanns intended. Can't have total control Gerry!


Imo this is all part of the damage limitation that was ongoing as from the moment they were made arguidos.

So in short: imo the rogatories were requested because the witnesses listed could whitewash the McCanns. In a nutshell, didn't work.



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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by jd on 11.10.12 2:49

Note that there is no request at all to interview witnesses so that Maddie can be found, the request is mainly to support the McCanns.
This is very telling. All the witnesses interviewed didn't really offer anything to help find Maddie. But they all made the point of supporting the mccanns. When you compare their original statements to the RI's, the RI's then all fall into line. Wasn't all the ones who were interviewed for the RI's seen by the "unofficial" police investigators in November 2007?

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Posts copied from '75 minutes of crying'

Post by tigger on 25.12.12 6:42


24/12/12
PeterMac wrote:
It has always interested me that the Rothley meeting was in the hotel / pub / Masonic Lodge
The McCanns have a decent sized house, with a dining room and drawing room certainly big enough for 9.
So how many were there, and why did they not want it in their own home ?



24/12/12
PeterMac Yesterday at 8:03 pm


PeterMac wrote:
It has always interested me that the Rothley meeting was in the hotel / pub / Masonic Lodge
The McCanns have a decent sized house, with a dining room and drawing room certainly big enough for 9.
So how many were there, and why did they not want it in their own home ?

tigger wrote
We seem to have quite a number of the agenda points but yes, why not their own house? Or somewhere less obvious than this particular venue.
The meeting, under both Portuguese and British law, whilst they were still named suspects would essentially be illegal as they would be conferring with possible witnesses.


And since we know that immediately after the meeting CM was able to reassure the public that the two were NOT going to change their statements, we may wonder about substituting another word for "conferring".

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24/12/12
PeterMac Yesterday at 11:45 pm

But things happened at that meeting. It was in Nov 2007.
They had no idea that in July 2008 all the statements would be put in the public domain.
They had no idea that what Dianne Webster and Fiona Payne had said about sedating the children (and she, an anaesthetist ! ! !) would become public knowledge, even if they already knew. Or that what they had said to Police officers of various nations - similarly.
They had no idea that the exact timings of Gerry's visit and then Tanner's "sighting" would be available for people to compare and contrast and calculate down to the nearest 1 minute and 20 seconds.
They probably still thought that vague stuff about not having watches (CM - April 2008 - remember) would still wash.
And their spin doctor and and their respective lawyers probably thought the same, and let them carry on.
They still had no idea that the Zapata case would rebound so dramatically against them ( which incidentally makes it entirely another mystery why Kate should bang on about it in her book, and why no lawyer would tell her to shut up and change the subject ! !)
And so on.

In their position I might now be contemplating an action against the lawyers and spin doctors for gross negligence.

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Re: The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

Post by tigger on 07.12.13 7:42

Just copying Chillyheat's post from the topic on 12 to 15 others involved etc. here as it is relevant imo

Then there are also the phoographs of the McCanns with Catriona Baker a few days after the meeting  -  in the Catriona Baker topic which are also relevant tothe Rohley meeting.

ChillyHeat wrote:
5th Nov 2007 : Statement During the evening of Wednesday 31 October 2007, Jeremy and Bridget were visited at their home address by DC 1756 and DC 4356 from the Leicestershire Op Task team.


Several weeks later, Jeremy received calls from Gerry in relation to gaining permission from him to use his name in a portfolio of evidence being compiled by an organisation employed by the McCanns. They were very persistent and made several attempts to contact him both at work and at home. They had no objections to being included but were concerned as to the method being used.
Then the Hotel meeting, was it December 2007 ?

Tigger wrote
Thank you for that reference. The Rothley meeting was mid November - see thetopic The Rothley Meeting.
It was intended to take place in December but brought forward, the following Monday the Panorama documentary was broadcast.
I don't think JW was there - they needed to get the statement above all made official though, so JW would not be able to retract.
Gosh,   One wonders if the LP paid a few more visits to other witnesses in order to get things down on paper all nice and official in time for the meeting.
It wasn't clear when the rogatories would take place and as it turned out, the delaying tactics of Jaqui Smith worked against them. Five months after reading the communal song sheet, most of the T7 certainly had forgotten the instructions.
Own goal.

Unquote

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