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Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Guest on 19.08.12 23:19

Tony, he got his money, that's what I agreed to. I will not question how he's spending it. That's immaterial.
I don't turn a blind eye to anything in this case, to the contrary. I'm just careful in stating what I believe or, as for that matter, what I imagine might be the case. I'm well versed on statements and PJ documents and TV and paper interviews. I know to a certain extent how to analyse statements and body language ... and the only thing I am confident in so far, is that "they" must know what happened. Nothing more than that. And as long as I'm not sure, I may post some IMO's at the max. And keep watching ...

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Tony Bennett on 19.08.12 23:27

Châtelaine wrote:Tony, he got his money, that's what I agreed to. I will not question how he's spending it. That's immaterial.
I don't turn a blind eye to anything in this case, to the contrary. I'm just careful in stating what I believe or, as for that matter, what I imagine might be the case. I'm well versed on statements and PJ documents and TV and paper interviews. I know to a certain extent how to analyse statements and body language ... and the only thing I am confident in so far, is that "they" must know what happened. Nothing more than that. And as long as I'm not sure, I may post some IMO's at the max. And keep watching ...
OK Chatelaine, that's much clearer, thank you

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by jd on 20.08.12 0:31

@Spaniel wrote:
@jd wrote:Obviously not bothered about what may lie in Casa Liliana's backyard then

I'm shocked. I thought you were far more intilligent than that jd.

Sorry...What do you mean?

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by jd on 20.08.12 0:59

@tigger wrote:
Asked to comment on his libel victory, Murat declared, on SKY TV, and reading from a prepared text: “The newspapers in this case brought about the total and utter destruction of mine and my family’s life, and caused immense distress”.

This statement is absolute garbage. The real truth is, it was jane tanner who identified robert murat as the abductor despite never seeing his face. It was 3 members of the tapas 9 who 10 days later suddenly stated they saw robert murat on the night of the 3rd May, not one single person outside the tapas 9 confirmed this and said the complete opposite that he was never there, from various sources from the GNR to holiday makers! Doesn't take much intelligence to work out the set up going on here from within the tapas 9 group

The fact is the PJ followed what the mccanns and their tapas 9 group were telling them, the media followed suite as is their bushiness to report. This putting aside the UK government intervention. The fact is, robert murat NEVER sued the SOURCE...Tapas 9 friends and the one who committed the most slanderous and libellous allegations without a single shred of evidence other than a 'feeling'....lori campbell

Further, in 2012 robert murat agrees to be on a BBC documentary slating the PJ (thereby supporting the mccanns and Tapas 9) in April 2012, despite the fact that the sources who were solely responsible for putting him in this situation...... he is now on their side!

What changed the situation was the brian 'bulldozer' kennedy meetings in November 2007. This is the point when all parties concerned changed to be on the same page and together. You don't need to be an Einstein to see this, just rich enough to be able to employ a lawyer to tell the truth

You don't need to look any further than the Everleighs and Symingtons ...especially the Symingtons in more ways than one. Together with murat they 'owned' PDL and their motive is to protect it & their business for their own personal reasons, not to mention the underlying family ties





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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by tigger on 20.08.12 6:44

It's quite amusing to read JT's rogatory on Murat. She wants to say that she never identified him - it never happened, but she can't. So she fudges as well as she can.
Murat should have sued her, as she was the reason the PJ had to make him an arguido. They'd been following Murat and had tapped his phones, but had nothing definite on him at all and in fact Amaral wasn't at all keen on him as a suspect.
Amaral states in the book that the PJ were pushed in Murat's direction by the British and had no option but to arrest him after the identification.

The amazing speed with which the newspapers settled - the Tapas about 55.000 each and Murat 600.000 from 11 newspapers plus extras for his girlfriend and friend - is suspicious imo. Out of court as well whilst it could be proved that a lot of the material printed was actually provided by TM et al.

From the article on Murat :
quote:
As many noted, whilst Murat bitterly attacked the British tabloid press, he completely failed to tell his student audience that the McCanns’ chief press spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, was amongst those to articulate a possible connection between Robert Murat and double child-murderer Ian Huntley. Neither did he mention the McCanns having pointed the finger at him in January 2008; they had claimed that there was cogent evidence that Murat was a ‘spotter for a gang of paedophiles’.

Just as puzzling: neither did Murat criticise Jane Tanner for identifying him as the abductor on 14 May 2007, nor did he have a word of condemnation for the other three members of the ‘Tapas 9’ who had a day or two later positively identified him as having been hanging round the Ocean Club apartments on the evening of 3 May.

Clarence Mitchell had made the ‘Huntley’ reference to Murat. The McCanns referred to evidence that he was a ‘spotter for a paedophile gang’. Jane Tanner was adamant that he was the abductor she’d allegedly seen. Three others of the ‘Tapas 9’ claimed they’d seen Murat near the McCanns’ apartment the night Madeleine was reported missing - and tried to out-face Murat at a tense confrontation with him organised by the Portuguese Police on 11 July. Yet in his Cambridge Union address, Murat was totally silent about all of this.

Why? Why did he vent his spleen on the tabloids - and not on Mitchell and six members of the ‘Tapas 9’ who had so actively conspired to smear him?

If we knew the answer to this riddle, we would be much the wiser - and perhaps nearer the truth about what really happened to Madeleine McCann.
unquote
http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/


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90% chance that Murat was guilty

Post by Tony Bennett on 20.08.12 7:10

@jd wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Asked to comment on his libel victory, Murat declared, on SKY TV, and reading from a prepared text: “The newspapers in this case brought about the total and utter destruction of mine and my family’s life, and caused immense distress”.

This statement is absolute garbage. The real truth is, it was Jane Tanner who identified Robert Murat as the abductor despite never seeing his face. It was 3 members of the Tapas 9 who 10 days later suddenly stated they saw Robert Murat on the night of the 3rd May, not one single person outside the Tapas 9 confirmed this and said the complete opposite - that he was never there, from various sources from the GNR to holiday makers! Doesn't take much intelligence to work out the set-up going on here from within the Tapas 9 group

The fact is the PJ followed what the McCanns and their Tapas 9 group were telling them, the media followed suit as is their bushiness to report. This putting aside the UK government intervention. The fact is, Robert Murat NEVER sued the SOURCES...the Tapas 9 friends and the one who committed the most slanderous and libellous allegations without a single shred of evidence other than a 'feeling'....Lori Campbell

Further, in April 2012 Robert Murat agrees to be on a BBC documentary slating the PJ (thereby supporting the McCanns and Tapas 9), despite the fact that ir was the sources who were solely responsible for putting him in this situation...he is now on their side!

What changed the situation was the Brian 'bulldozer' Kennedy meetings in November 2007. This is the point when all parties concerned changed to be on the same page and together. You don't need to be an Einstein to see this, just rich enough to be able to employ a lawyer to tell the truth

You don't need to look any further than the Eveleighs and Symingtons...especially the Symingtons, in more ways than one. Together with Murat, they 'owned' PDL - and their motive is to protect it & their business for their own personal reasons, not to mention the underlying family ties...
That's exactly right, jd, and no-one who gives a thought about the role of Robert Murat can possibly ignore the above facts. You skated over the 'UK government intervention', so for the record let me quote this paragraph fom Dr Goncalo Amaral's book: 'The Truth About A Lie':

QUOTE

Since Murat's first interview, which they attended, the specialists have continued to refine the profile of the suspect. They have heard about the statement from one of his so-called childhood friends, put on file by the police department: according to him, Murat had an affirmed penchant for bestiality. He recounted his attempts at sexual relations with a cat and a dog, subsequently killed, he states, with cruelty. Moreover, he allegedly attempted to rape his 16 year-old cousin. This individual describes Murat as someone violent with behavioural problems, a sexual pervert, sadist, and misanthropist. We are somewhat sceptical. All the same, according to the English profilers, there is a 90% chance that he is the guilty party.

UNQUOTE


It's plain from the above that aside from (1) Lori Campbell, (2) Jane Tanner, (3) Fiona Payne, (4) Rachael Oldfield and (5) Russell O'Brien, all five of whom pointed the finger at Murat (though the last 4 changed their collective minds later), and thus caused all the trouble for him, the 'English profilers', whoever they were, were also a major reason why Murat was arrested. These were probably men from MI5 (Amaral says MI5 were involved) and Control Risks Group (with huge connections to the UK government and the security services). What made them so sure that there was 'a 90% chance that he was guilty...guilty of abducting Madeleine?

Especially as they were subsequently proved to be wrong.

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by jd on 20.08.12 12:19

Thanks Tigger and Tony. So we have:

Jane Tanner
Lori Campbell
Clarence Mitchell
Fiona Payne
Rachael Oldfield
Russell O'Brien
English Profilers
Childhood Friends

all accusing and smearing Robert Murat, libellous and slanderous to him......yet he does or says nothing to any of them and instead sues the newspapers!!!

Doesn't take much thought to see right through what is really going here!!!!

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Tony Bennett on 20.08.12 12:25

@jd wrote:Thanks Tigger and Tony. So we have:

Jane Tanner
Lori Campbell
Clarence Mitchell
Fiona Payne
Rachael Oldfield
Russell O'Brien
English Profilers
Childhood Friends

all accusing and smearing Robert Murat, libellous and slanderous to him......yet he does or says nothing to any of them and instead sues the newspapers!!!

Doesn't take much thought to see right through what is really going here!!!!
Indeed, it is as plain as a pikestaff, that is, for those with eyes to see

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Cheshire Cat on 20.08.12 12:52

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jd wrote:Thanks Tigger and Tony. So we have:

Jane Tanner
Lori Campbell
Clarence Mitchell
Fiona Payne
Rachael Oldfield
Russell O'Brien
English Profilers
Childhood Friends

all accusing and smearing Robert Murat, libellous and slanderous to him......yet he does or says nothing to any of them and instead sues the newspapers!!!

Doesn't take much thought to see right through what is really going here!!!!
Indeed, it is as plain as a pikestaff, that is, for those with eyes to see

The English profilers - we are talking about CEOP here? Not Lee Rainbow.

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by aiyoyo on 20.08.12 13:12

If he was operating for them on the covert why go overt when he met with Brian Kennedy each side bringing their own lawyer...doesn't that blow the cover? All very weird.

Was he going to sue them but somehow managed to reach a private settlement in that meet? Just wondering.
Or what could the meeting be about? Surely not exchanging only greetings!

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 14:07

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jd wrote:Thanks Tigger and Tony. So we have:

Jane Tanner
Lori Campbell
Clarence Mitchell
Fiona Payne
Rachael Oldfield
Russell O'Brien
English Profilers
Childhood Friends

all accusing and smearing Robert Murat, libellous and slanderous to him......yet he does or says nothing to any of them and instead sues the newspapers!!!

Doesn't take much thought to see right through what is really going here!!!!
Indeed, it is as plain as a pikestaff, that is, for those with eyes to see
His lawyers also took action against Sky News didn't they? It was easy to take action against the newspapers, relatively easy to be successful, and it was likely to result in substantial compensation if successful. None of those factors apply to taking action against individuals.

Leave guy alone Tony, and tigger. I've read all your pages and I don't see any case there. I also don't see where there is any indication Mr Amaral has remaining suspicions about him either (as I think tigger said to me the other week)

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by jd on 20.08.12 15:51

Before suing the newspapers, he should have got his own facts right first!

3. A summary of Murat’s 17 changes of story about what he did on 1, 2, 3 and 4 May

1. Remembers that on 1 May he tried to contact Jorge da Silva.

2. Remembers that on 2 May he didn’t leave home at 10.30 but instead had a meeting with Sergei Malinka at the Batista Supermarket.

3. He had in fact taken Michaela and Malinka back to his mother’s house in Praia da Luz for a further discussion, something he’d omitted to tell the police in the first interview.

4. He now remembered visiting his bank and paying in 287.51 euros.

5. He now remembered he’d called at the home of Francisco Pagarete, his lawyer, that morning.

6. He now remembers that he had met Francisco Pagarete that afternoon.

7. He now remembers that another of Jorge’s sons was present at their meeting in the café in the afternoon.

8. The meeting in the café went on much longer than he had said previously.

9. He thinks that Michaela Walczuk’s husband Luis Antonio may not have been present at Michaela’s house that evening, contrary to what he had previously said.

10. On 3 May, he had not woken at 9.00am as previously stated, but at 8.00am.

11. He had not driven to Michaela’s house after 10.00am as previously stated; instead he had left home at 8.45am for a 9.30am meeting with the owner of the business tourist complex called ‘Gold Bunker’ in the Espiche district and her father-in-law.

12. He now remembered that he had visited two apartments for about 30 minutes, probably on the afternoon of 3 May.

13. He and Michaela had lunch with them, a fact he had not disclosed to police before.

14. Michaela’s daughter Christine was not with them that day contrary to his previous story.

15. They went to the Palmares Golf Club in the afternoon, another fact Murat had failed to disclose.

16. He now admitted to making two telephone calls, to Sergei Malinka and Michaela, at 11.39pm and 11.40pm that night.

17. He previously said he had woken at 9.00am on Friday 4 May. He now admitted he had telephoned Michaela at 8.27am and must have got up earlier.


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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Spaniel on 20.08.12 16:14

@jd wrote:
@Spaniel wrote:
@jd wrote:Obviously not bothered about what may lie in Casa Liliana's backyard then

I'm shocked. I thought you were far more intilligent than that jd.

Sorry...What do you mean?

Because some over excitable man from SA travels all the way to Pt, trespasses in someones garden, produces a fuzzy image of an underground space and declares it to be Madeleine.

Can you not see how daft that reads?

Not "It could be a tree root, or the roadstone could have settled, it's worth investigating". Oh no, "It's Madeleine."

I'm glad that the authorities treated it it with the contempt it deserved.

PS jd, you must be too well mannered to have picked up on my spelling of intelligent to throw it back at me. An own goal I think.

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Not in Murats interest for the investigation to go on ?

Post by Cheshire Cat on 20.08.12 16:50

tcat wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jd wrote:Thanks Tigger and Tony. So we have:

Jane Tanner
Lori Campbell
Clarence Mitchell
Fiona Payne
Rachael Oldfield
Russell O'Brien
English Profilers
Childhood Friends

all accusing and smearing Robert Murat, libellous and slanderous to him......yet he does or says nothing to any of them and instead sues the newspapers!!!

Doesn't take much thought to see right through what is really going here!!!!
Indeed, it is as plain as a pikestaff, that is, for those with eyes to see
His lawyers also took action against Sky News didn't they? It was easy to take action against the newspapers, relatively easy to be successful, and it was likely to result in substantial compensation if successful. None of those factors apply to taking action against individuals.

Leave guy alone Tony, and tigger. I've read all your pages and I don't see any case there. I also don't see where there is any indication Mr Amaral has remaining suspicions about him either (as I think tigger said to me the other week)
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/04/goncalo-amaral-interviewed-by-judite-de.html
GA: Yes I do, I have always defended the re-opening 6,
actually it's something the McCann couple never defended, only
recently, after two or three years, they've started to defend a review
of the sightings - and that is what is being done. The re-opening of the
process in Portugal, with all the indicia that are contained in the
process, it was never defended by them. Note that when the process was
archived in 2008, there were three suspects: Robert Murat and the McCann
couple. Any of the three could have opposed to the process archival,
some received 500.000 pounds of compensation from the British media
whilst others kept quiet. Why? Because it wasn't their interest for the
investigation to carry on, but the investigation needs to go on.

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by tigger on 20.08.12 17:36

tcat wrote:
[...] Leave guy alone Tony, and tigger. I've read all your pages and I don't see any case there. I also don't see where there is any indication Mr Amaral has remaining suspicions about him either (as I think tigger said to me the other week)
[b]unquote

If the above remark is the result of reading the files there's little more one can say about your powers of deduction and rational thought.
In the post above is Amaral's assessment.

Murat might have been making mistakes imo, perhaps it was better to have him arrested before he could give the game away. The PJ were following him and tapped his phone. It would be quite a clever move to get him arrested so that he couldn't give get the main players compromised. Murat liked to talk, his mother was taking part, his friend, his girlfriend. On reflection, someone rather smarter than the pink one could have forced the arrest.

There are also suggestions that the pay-out which was arranged with unprecedented speed, need not entirely have been from the funds of the newspapers.


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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 20:39

@tigger wrote:tcat wrote:
[...] Leave guy alone Tony, and tigger. I've read all your pages and I don't see any case there. I also don't see where there is any indication Mr Amaral has remaining suspicions about him either (as I think tigger said to me the other week)
[b]unquote

If the above remark is the result of reading the files there's little more one can say about your powers of deduction and rational thought.
In the post above is Amaral's assessment.

Murat might have been making mistakes imo, perhaps it was better to have him arrested before he could give the game away. The PJ were following him and tapped his phone. It would be quite a clever move to get him arrested so that he couldn't give get the main players compromised. Murat liked to talk, his mother was taking part, his friend, his girlfriend. On reflection, someone rather smarter than the pink one could have forced the arrest.

There are also suggestions that the pay-out which was arranged with unprecedented speed, need not entirely have been from the funds of the newspapers.


Good clear thinking, Tigger.

Have a look at the 2011 movie 'Page eight' for R&R. Says it all.

Bye, back into retirement.

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 20:46

@tigger wrote:tcat wrote:
[...] Leave guy alone Tony, and tigger. I've read all your pages and I don't see any case there. I also don't see where there is any indication Mr Amaral has remaining suspicions about him either (as I think tigger said to me the other week)
[b]unquote

If the above remark is the result of reading the files there's little more one can say about your powers of deduction and rational thought.
In the post above is Amaral's assessment.

Murat might have been making mistakes imo, perhaps it was better to have him arrested before he could give the game away. The PJ were following him and tapped his phone. It would be quite a clever move to get him arrested so that he couldn't give get the main players compromised. Murat liked to talk, his mother was taking part, his friend, his girlfriend. On reflection, someone rather smarter than the pink one could have forced the arrest.

There are also suggestions that the pay-out which was arranged with unprecedented speed, need not entirely have been from the funds of the newspapers.

Are those suspicions mentioned by Mr Amaral or any of the other policemen involved in the investigation anywhere?

Sure the guy and his friends too probably have secrets, who doesn't. If an event happened down the road from me, and I was drawn into it, the media could take certain events from my past and make me out to be the weird outsider they made of Murat - they can make anyone seem like a monster if they want to. That's what they do. Ditto with my computers, I wouldn't want anyone looking at them (doesn't mean there's anything illegal on them - just private information) - so if I was unlucky enough to be drawn into an event and looked at by the media and police, I too could easily be made out to be a weirdo with 'suspicious' information on my computers. Most people could. Few of us if any are going to stand up to the extraordinary attention from the media and police Murat and his colleagues received in 2007.

I take your point from the other day that the case was shelved and not closed, and legally Murat's position remains exactly the same as the McCanns, but the PJ's final report and prosecutor's report are full of unanswered questions about the McCanns and their friends, not about Murat. Both reports I think mention the lack of cooperation from the McCanns and their friends, but doesn't indicate any lack of cooperation from Murat or his family I believe. They're the two documents I'm basing my opinion on.

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 20:54

@Portia wrote:Good clear thinking, Tigger.

Have a look at the 2011 movie 'Page eight' for R&R. Says it all.

Bye, back into retirement.
A very entertaining movie (too much jazz though!)

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by tigger on 20.08.12 21:29

tcat wrote:
@Portia wrote:Good clear thinking, Tigger.

Have a look at the 2011 movie 'Page eight' for R&R. Says it all.

Bye, back into retirement.
A very entertaining movie (too much jazz though!)

@tcat
Not all the PJ files have been published. I'm fairly sure that neither Murat nor the McCanns imagined in their wildest nightmares that any files whatsoever would be published. There is very little in the PJ files on Murat. There should be more imo so is kept elsewhere.

I'm not the least bit interested in his encrypted material - probably porn I'd think. PJ was obliged to find out because of the paedophile angle.
PJ didn't like Murat trying to look at reports on the desks of the interviewing officers when he was ostensibly there to translate. In other words, he was spying.
I'm also pretty sure there's nothing to be found in any or on any property belonging to Murat in the way of a buried body.
Imo Murat had contacts, knew Gerry and probably people like Geraghty, possibly Smethurst - PdL has about 1000 people in it for goodness' sakes.
Murat imo provided contacts, third parties who could 'help' the McCanns out of their difficulties.
Murat is outlined in neon letters for me.

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Re: Mr & Mrs Robert Murat: live in Lagos and had a 'fantastic' world cruise earlier this year

Post by Guest on 20.08.12 22:13

@tigger wrote:
tcat wrote:
@Portia wrote:Good clear thinking, Tigger.

Have a look at the 2011 movie 'Page eight' for R&R. Says it all.

Bye, back into retirement.
A very entertaining movie (too much jazz though!)

@tcat
Not all the PJ files have been published. I'm fairly sure that neither Murat nor the McCanns imagined in their wildest nightmares that any files whatsoever would be published. There is very little in the PJ files on Murat. There should be more imo so is kept elsewhere.

I'm not the least bit interested in his encrypted material - probably porn I'd think. PJ was obliged to find out because of the paedophile angle.
PJ didn't like Murat trying to look at reports on the desks of the interviewing officers when he was ostensibly there to translate. In other words, he was spying.
I'm also pretty sure there's nothing to be found in any or on any property belonging to Murat in the way of a buried body.
Imo Murat had contacts, knew Gerry and probably people like Geraghty, possibly Smethurst - PdL has about 1000 people in it for goodness' sakes.
Murat imo provided contacts, third parties who could 'help' the McCanns out of their difficulties.
Murat is outlined in neon letters for me.
That's a lot clearer, and I understand your theory now. Do you think Mr Amaral also has such a theory about Murat's possible involvement? It's not really discussed in his book is it.

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