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Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by jd on 09.09.12 0:19

@Ribisl wrote:jd, I don't want to start a pointless argument here but one wouldn't change the train to go from Waterloo to Westminster because it's such a short distance to walk whereas Victoria to Whitehall will take quite a bit more than five minutes on foot. I should have said Embankment is closer than Waterloo, perhaps, but I was then thinking of the general area of Whitehall rather than Foreign & Commonwealth Office which is much closer to Westminster Bridge. I really think it's feasible for someone to catch a slow train from Gatwick (cheaper and only a little slower) and change at Clapham Junction to catch the Northern Line to Waterloo, then walk across the Westminster Bridge to Foreign & Commonwealth Office. In fact, I might even suggest that route myself if someone had asked me how to get to the Foreign Office from Gatwick Airport.

But I agree with you that this whole story about the lost wallet sounds very dodgy from start to finish.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one Ribisl smilie The Waterloo route is doubling back on yourself when you can go direct in half the time on the express. Parliament is the other side of Parliament Square past down the House of Commons on Victoria Street...done it many times myself over the years and know both Waterloo/Westminster and Victoria like the back of my hand (and Gatwick!). gerry mccanns 'place of Waterloo' came from Scotland and they presumed wrong that trains went there from Gatwick imo, and I can understand why they presumed trains went to Waterloo from Gatwick but they don't. Of course the credit cards incident is made up, I wonder if gerry mccann used the same stolen credit card to pay for the renault hire car? or did the fund pay for this like the top class hotel he stayed in once

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by tigger on 09.09.12 8:12

The timeline on this is a little tight:
19th June he loses his wallet. By the 29th he has it back in Portugal.


The thief sends it by post to Queenyborough - an address he finds in the wallet. At best he would post this later that day - having had to buy an enveloppe, stamps and gone to a post office to find out the stamps required. If no stamps had been put on and he'd just - as some thieves still do - slipped it into a letterbox it would either never get back to GM if he was lucky and PO employees didn't do their usual trick of taking out the money and destroying the evidence - it would be weeks or months before he got it back.

But say this thief forked out for correct stamps and secure envelope (he obviously missed the Clarence broadcast to 'address it to Kate and Gerry in Rothley')it would not arrive at the wrong address earlier than the 21st, more likely the 22nd.
We are now asked to believe that the resident in the old house then rewrapped it, sent it to the Rothley address. Assuming that he had this address.
Another two days and we're on the 24th. Saturday.
A third party who might be checking the mail in Rothley and opening all the yummy money enveloppes, finds the wallet. But Gerry makes no mention in his blog at this stage that e.g. he's had a call and the wallet has been found. Which would be a good thing to enter instead of the usual bilge.
By the following Thursday, 'visiting' friends from Amsterdam have come over and picked up the wallet - presumably gone back to Amsterdam and then taken a flight to Portugal.
They would have to know there was something to pick up, who and where were the people they were visiting? Unlikely to be either Rothley or Queenyborough. So they would have been contacted by someone who knew they were coming. So on and so forth.

Ten days in which the wallet is stolen, gets sent to one address, then another address, friends of the couple are so well known to their family that they are contacted to come and pick up the wallet, these friends return home and on a date soon after that fly to Portugal.
On their way through to somewhere else, which is likely to be in a hire car.

Unless you bother to send by recorded delivery, in my experience sending any money by mail results 9 out of 10 times in it not arriving at all. There was still 30 euros in it, that is highly unlikely. Any thief would use it but it's a typical Gerry twist - not British - good money, only euros were left in - stuff that the sardine munchers use.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Hummingbird on 09.09.12 10:52

@tigger wrote:The timeline on this is a little tight:
19th June he loses his wallet. By the 29th he has it back in Portugal.


The thief sends it by post to Queenyborough - an address he finds in the wallet. At best he would post this later that day - having had to buy an enveloppe, stamps and gone to a post office to find out the stamps required. If no stamps had been put on and he'd just - as some thieves still do - slipped it into a letterbox it would either never get back to GM if he was lucky and PO employees didn't do their usual trick of taking out the money and destroying the evidence - it would be weeks or months before he got it back.

But say this thief forked out for correct stamps and secure envelope (he obviously missed the Clarence broadcast to 'address it to Kate and Gerry in Rothley')it would not arrive at the wrong address earlier than the 21st, more likely the 22nd.
We are now asked to believe that the resident in the old house then rewrapped it, sent it to the Rothley address. Assuming that he had this address.
Another two days and we're on the 24th. Saturday.
A third party who might be checking the mail in Rothley and opening all the yummy money enveloppes, finds the wallet. But Gerry makes no mention in his blog at this stage that e.g. he's had a call and the wallet has been found. Which would be a good thing to enter instead of the usual bilge.
By the following Thursday, 'visiting' friends from Amsterdam have come over and picked up the wallet - presumably gone back to Amsterdam and then taken a flight to Portugal.
They would have to know there was something to pick up, who and where were the people they were visiting? Unlikely to be either Rothley or Queenyborough. So they would have been contacted by someone who knew they were coming. So on and so forth.

Ten days in which the wallet is stolen, gets sent to one address, then another address, friends of the couple are so well known to their family that they are contacted to come and pick up the wallet, these friends return home and on a date soon after that fly to Portugal.
On their way through to somewhere else, which is likely to be in a hire car.

Unless you bother to send by recorded delivery, in my experience sending any money by mail results 9 out of 10 times in it not arriving at all. There was still 30 euros in it, that is highly unlikely. Any thief would use it but it's a typical Gerry twist - not British - good money, only euros were left in - stuff that the sardine munchers use.

Yes, and why didn't the new owner of their old house come forward to tell the world he had the wallet, it was stolen goods for goodness sake wouldn't you have thought he/she would have handed it over to the police, so they could give it back to him? Didn't they open the envelope and see the wallet with the photos of MM and the 30 Euros and put 2 and 2 together, because if they had opened it I do not believe for one minute they wouldn't have contacted the police and if they didn't open it, considering what was going on in the news about the people they had bought the house from I do not believe either that he would have just sent it to their new address, he/she must have known they weren't there - they were in Portugal!!!

Amazing how many people have 'seen' MM since she disappeared and want to come forward yet NO ONE who has ever known the McCanns, including neighbours, school teachers, shop keepers, people whose lives he saves on aeroplanes, patients, school friends parents etc etc etc have nothing, absolutely nothing to say about them????????

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by tigger on 09.09.12 13:24

Not even a man whom he saved from certain death!
There's gratitude for you!

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Hummingbird on 09.09.12 13:36

@tigger wrote:Not even a man whom he saved from certain death!
There's gratitude for you!

I know, you would have thought at least he would have wanted to tell the world and his wife about the day the wonderful GM saved his life but no not him or the 180+ other passengers, the ground staff, ambulance crew, cabin crew, pilots said a dickybird.

Not one person who seems to want a minutes fame, I do not believe it, never ever in anything that has this much media attention do people not crawl out of the woodwork to say something and get their names in papers, so why not this case?




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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by PeterMac on 09.09.12 14:00

And so we conclude . . .
It did not happen. Any more than the theft and subsequent return of the wallet happened.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Ross on 09.09.12 14:16

@PeterMac wrote:And so we conclude . . .
It did not happen. Any more than the theft and subsequent return of the wallet happened.

Quite so. I think it is also reasonable to assume that these little islands of detailed memory lost in a vast ocean of forgetfulness are intended to plug a hole here and there in the narrative.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Ribisl on 09.09.12 14:18

@PeterMac wrote:And so we conclude . . .
It did not happen. Any more than the theft and subsequent return of the wallet happened.

The wallet could have been stolen or GM might have misplaced it at some point and later decided to to use it to 'lose' those precious photos of Madeleine. We keep coming back to the same points though: cancelling of his credit cards (to hide earlier transaction records?) and the alleged loss of the photos (why did GM want to 'lose' those particular photos?).

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by tigger on 09.09.12 14:31

@Ribisl wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:And so we conclude . . .
It did not happen. Any more than the theft and subsequent return of the wallet happened.

The wallet could have been stolen or GM might have misplaced it at some point and later decided to to use it to 'lose' those precious photos of Madeleine. We keep coming back to the same points though: cancelling of his credit cards (to hide earlier transaction records?) and the alleged loss of the photos (why did GM want to 'lose' those particular photos?).

There's no reason to mention them so since they are, qui bono? GM I think, because what with the Amsterdam connection here, Amsterdam photographs and Amsterdam 'friends' who collect the wallet. Was this killing two birds with one stone? Credit cards compromised and sending a message to Amsterdam via John McCann and the family oracle (Philomena) which they would understand.
Amsterdam incidentally, (nothing to do with the above I hasten to add winkwink ) had a terrible case of abused toddlers and even babies in the care of a creche worker. Amsterdam does seem to be one of the world's worst places for paedo porn.
Quite unnecessarily the blog also tells us that these Amsterdam friends have done a lot to publicise the search for Madeleine. We don't get their names whilst we get lots of names from other friends and helpers.

I think it's quite likely that the blog was used to convey messages.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by PeterMac on 09.09.12 15:17

Losing or cancelling a credit card will not wipe the computer records of the transactions.
They will be there in the mainframe back up system for at the very least seven years in case the tax authorities want them.
It is likely that the records go back far further than that, to allow for investigations into crime, money laundering and so on.
Indeed I would bet that credit card companies have all the records right back to when they were first issued.
The data requirement is tiny, a few lines and columns on a spread sheet, so vast amounts could be stored for almost no cost.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Ribisl on 09.09.12 15:28

@PeterMac wrote:Losing or cancelling a credit card will not wipe the computer records of the transactions.
They will be there in the mainframe back up system for at the very least seven years in case the tax authorities want them.
It is likely that the records go back far further than that, to allow for investigations into crime, money laundering and so on.
Indeed I would bet that credit card companies have all the records right back to when they were first issued.
The data requirement is tiny, a few lines and columns on a spread sheet, so vast amounts could be stored for almost no cost.
I agree PM, but I am thinking in the mindset of the MCs. If they had no means of erasing such records, then what would have been their next best option? Once the cards have been cancelled, I imagine it would have been harder for anyone to obtain relevant records.

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Gerry McCann Credit Cards

Post by mrcibubur on 13.09.12 7:45

This is the first time I have read through this particular thread about the Credit Cards. These are my summary thoughts on the matter.

Gerry and Kate McCann were the owners of at least a couple of credit cards each (Mastercard?) in their names
They may or may not have used a credit card to pay for the holiday to Portugal in April-May 2007 or it may have been paid for by somebody else (eg David Payne who organized the holiday for the Group)
Gerry and Kate McCann may have used their credit card during the actual holiday upto and including what happened on the night of Thursday 3rd May
No credit cards belonging to Gerry or Kate McCann were found by the PJ on the initial search of Apartment 5A and the possessions etc of the MCann family
Both Gerry and Kate McCann were questioned about financial transactions and holding credit cards by the PJ but the extent of those enquiries remains unclear
Gerry McCann flies to Gatwick from Faro on 19th June (we presume in possession of a wallet containing the credit cards, photo driving licence id, photos)
Gerry McCann uses a debit/cash card to make a cash withdrawal of 100 Pounds Sterling
Gerry McCann travels from Gatwick Airport to Westminster for a meeting with Government officials to discuss his Daughters disappearance
Gerry McCann return to his Faro Portugal later that evening
The wallet and the credit cards are returned to Gerry McCann (by post) on 29th June

I have several observations to make in relation to my summary:

It is highly unlikely that Gerry and Kate McCann did not have either a credit card or debit card, given their professional status and family lifestyle. They owned a house on mortgage and two motor vehicles. One or both of the motor vehicles may have been on credit. They will have a status record for checking on any finance loans.

The McCanns are staying in self-catering Apartments. Please correct me where I am wrong, but I believe that they would pay for the breakfast and the supper which they ate at the Ocean Club as well as for the tennis lessons and any other recreational activity which was not part of the package.

The McCanns and their group of friends did not apparently hire a motor car during the holiday, nor seem to have a reason to do so because they were not adventurous enough to want to stray too far from the Apartment Complex. This is not a criticism, purely an observation.

There has been talk of Gerry McCann having bought a bottle of New Zealand wine from the local (Baptista?) supermarket. If that was so, it may be important to establish where and when and how that bottle of wine was bought.

If the PJ had the McCanns under suspicion from the outset, then we must assume that they were aware of Gerry McCanns flight to Gatwick and might have tailed him until his take off and perhaps with British assistance at the other end on his arrival to Gatwick.

If Gerry McCann was meeting important Government officials about Madeline's case, we would expect, given the serious nature of the case and the 'pull' of his civil servant friend Alastair Clark, transportation from Gatwick Airport to Westminster directly would have been arranged by the Government either as a pick up or by taxi.

His need for cash on the day of 19th June would be minimal and certainly not to buy a train ticket from Gatwick to either Waterloo or Victoria and then onward to Westminster.

The theft of his wallet and credit cards at Waterloo Station could not have happened because he never went anywhere near Waterloo Station.

That can, of course, be easily contradicted by actual evidence given by the Bank of his ATM transaction (if there was one) for the cash withdrawal of 100 pounds Sterling. Was it at Gatwick, Victoria, Waterloo Station or another location not yet mentioned?

The same about the likely use of his mobile phone. Just as in the Ian Huntley case, mobile phone calls or the switching off of phones can be easily tracked. It is therefore probable that Gerry McCann made telephone contact with the person or persons he had arranged to meet (Alastair Clark?) and his movements from leaving Gatwick Airport until arrival at Westminster can be easily tracked.

Also bear in mind that Gerry McCann is not familiar with London and finding exactly where he had to go to hold the meeting (somewhere in Westminster or Whitehall but where, which building?) would suggest that he was taken there rather than this new media celebrity be allowed to wonder the streets of London in search of the place. That sounds totally ridiculous to me, given the high profile level of the case.

What comes up, must come down. He had to return the same way he came, pretty much, so the same means of transportation was taken back from the meeting to Gatwick Airport for his evening flight

At some point during the day of 19th June, it was suggested that Gerry McCanns credit cards should become lost rather than an event which actually happened (which didn't) and thereby bring further sympathy and attention to the case. It may have been Gerry McCanns own idea or it may have come from the people he met during the course of the day.

About his old address, his mail may have been on redirect for upto two years from the house move, so that presents the possibility, if the wallets and cards were indeed posted back) that the delivery routed itself automatically to the new Rothley address. Alternatively, the people now living at the old address and who were doubtless aware of the case, received the letter and handed it over either to the McCanns directly (knowing their new address) or to the Police or an intermediary.

I can make no sense of these so called friends from Amsterdam and how they might have played their part in the return of the wallet and cards. What I suspect is that Gerry McCann handed the documents over willingly and they were conveniently handed back to him ten days later, by which time, the old cards had of course been cancelled and new ones issued.

We must assume that Gerry McCann had to explain to the Bank his change of address and have someone deliver the new credit cards to him in Portugal. Or did he stay longer in the Uk until the 29th June, sorting out stuff at Rothley? Sorry, I am unclear on that side of things without further reading.

I suspect that the man suffering an illness or condition on the plane on 19th June might have been genuine and the person may be too embarrassed to come forward. Another way to look at it is that it was a fabricated story to bring indirect attention to Gerry McCanns flight that morning from Faro to Gatwick, part of the 'spin', so to speak.

The Forces that be, whether in Portugal or UK, i believe have the means at their disposal to delve into these sources of evidence to establish the facts on this area of evidence which appears to have significance to the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Financial transactions and Phone call records will surely prove critical in solving this case or at the very least proving that certain persons could not have possibly been involved in what so many of us are speculating with open theories.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Miraflores on 13.09.12 8:50

I suspect that the man suffering an illness or condition on the plane on
19th June might have been genuine and the person may be too embarrassed
to come forward. Another way to look at it is that it was a fabricated
story to bring indirect attention to Gerry McCanns flight that morning
from Faro to Gatwick, part of the 'spin', so to speak.

I am sure that if he existed the Press would have lost no time in tracing him. Recall the little girl in Morocco who was supposedly Madeleine. The press were out there and found out her identity within a couple of days.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by jd on 18.09.12 20:40

"I inform you that, upon going to the Zavial Beach concession of Ernesto Joaquim Muchacho , telephone contact numbers, ******** and ******; the same stated that he recognised the parents of Madeleine McCann as clients of his restaurant and that he remembers seeing them for the last time in his establishment in the month of April (Easter holidays), accompanied by their three children. Since this date, as he exercises his function in the kitchen, he does not remember having seen them on that beach or in his restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAQUIM_MUCHACHO.htm

Easter in 2007 was April 8th 2007. Maybe this transaction on the credit card is what gerry mccann needed to hide by cancelling them. Maybe Donegal was invented as a smokescreen to deflect away from this trip to Portugual

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by tigger on 18.09.12 20:59

@jd wrote:"I inform you that, upon going to the Zavial Beach concession of Ernesto Joaquim Muchacho , telephone contact numbers, ******** and ******; the same stated that he recognised the parents of Madeleine McCann as clients of his restaurant and that he remembers seeing them for the last time in his establishment in the month of April (Easter holidays), accompanied by their three children. Since this date, as he exercises his function in the kitchen, he does not remember having seen them on that beach or in his restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAQUIM_MUCHACHO.htm

Easter in 2007 was April 8th 2007. Maybe this transaction on the credit card is what gerry mccann needed to hide by cancelling them. Maybe Donegal was invented as a smokescreen to deflect away from this trip to Portugual

Now that would make a lot of sense, it might also explain the photographs possibly taken on the balcony of that apartment in Burgau. The famous blue eyeshadow and the icecream one. That is, if they were taken there.

What's more, the Home Office refused the last six months records of the credit cards on the grounds it would be too intrusive. They told the PJ to come back with a shorter period of time. Somehow a four week period is what I remember reading was suggested. Can't back it up. But four weeks could just leave out Zaival Beach.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Nina on 18.09.12 21:13

@tigger wrote:
@jd wrote:"I inform you that, upon going to the Zavial Beach concession of Ernesto Joaquim Muchacho , telephone contact numbers, ******** and ******; the same stated that he recognised the parents of Madeleine McCann as clients of his restaurant and that he remembers seeing them for the last time in his establishment in the month of April (Easter holidays), accompanied by their three children. Since this date, as he exercises his function in the kitchen, he does not remember having seen them on that beach or in his restaurant."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAQUIM_MUCHACHO.htm

Easter in 2007 was April 8th 2007. Maybe this transaction on the credit card is what gerry mccann needed to hide by cancelling them. Maybe Donegal was invented as a smokescreen to deflect away from this trip to Portugual

Now that would make a lot of sense, it might also explain the photographs possibly taken on the balcony of that apartment in Burgau. The famous blue eyeshadow and the icecream one. That is, if they were taken there.

I am convinced the blue eyeshadow one is.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by tigger on 18.09.12 21:29

A request sent by PJ to British authorities, asking for details about Gerry McCann credit cards transactions for a period of six months, starting on April 1, six weeks before Madeleine's disappearance, was considered disproportionate by Frances Kennah, the Head of UK Central Authority, a Home Office department.
Unquote (from page 2 here)

So from the 1st of April back. It's really a strange request, nothing after 1/4/07. So did Amaral already know something else? After all, they did search the Burgau apartment I believe, there was a Peugeot connected with Murat and the mtDNA of Murat and JT's maternal lines. There's a lot more going on under the surface. Certainly the trip for Easter to Portugal would have shown up.

I'm sure it means Donegal is off the agenda. I've always thought it highly suspicious that those photographs were a) ready on the 8th of May for the Belfast Telegraph (so they had them the 7th or 8th) and that the face is Maddie but not the body. Plus the jolly reunion story which is highly unlikely. The Donegal story was very much a trick of misdirection.


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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by jd on 18.09.12 21:49

The PJ wanted transactions from April 1st so a week before Easter. Its highly likely the mccanns travelled sometime between the 1st and 8th of April. No wonder the Home Office refused to provide the information

The Donegal pictures of Maddie are very strange with Maddies high neck, totally photoshopped. Its very strange also that there were 27 or 46 people (depending on who is telling their story) meeting up and there are only a few pictures of the kids and Maddie eating an ice-cream and in the same location outside the shop. Plus one more on the rocks. Are these the only photos from between 27 and 46 people all meeting up for the first time in years. Are there none of anybody else there with Maddie? Maybe a single one perhaps! As you say Tigger, the ones that were released were ready on the 8th of May for the Belfast Telegraph

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Guest on 18.09.12 21:58

@tigger wrote:A request sent by PJ to British authorities, asking for details about Gerry McCann credit cards transactions for a period of six months, starting on April 1, six weeks before Madeleine's disappearance, was considered disproportionate by Frances Kennah, the Head of UK Central Authority, a Home Office department.
Unquote (from page 2 here)

So from the 1st of April back. It's really a strange request, nothing after 1/4/07. So did Amaral already know something else? After all, they did search the Burgau apartment I believe, there was a Peugeot connected with Murat and the mtDNA of Murat and JT's maternal lines. There's a lot more going on under the surface. Certainly the trip for Easter to Portugal would have shown up.

I'm sure it means Donegal is off the agenda. I've always thought it highly suspicious that those photographs were a) ready on the 8th of May for the Belfast Telegraph (so they had them the 7th or 8th) and that the face is Maddie but not the body. Plus the jolly reunion story which is highly unlikely. The Donegal story was very much a trick of misdirection.


Begging the question who did the pre-planning.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Guest on 18.09.12 22:05

@Portia wrote:[...]

Begging the question who did the pre-planning.
***
If any, WHY?

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Ross on 18.09.12 22:23

I haven't followed this case with the same degree of forensic attention as many here have, so may I please ask a question?

Do we have any definitive, fully corroborated and unequivocal evidence that Madeleine flew to the Algarve with her parents in late April? There has been plenty of evidence to suggest this was the case, airport bus footage for example, but the stated date and place of that could be fake. The group all say she was, as do other related witnesses, but to my mind their subsequent actions leave their credibility compromised and therefore their testimony suspect. For more peripheral witnesses, just to be told that this four year old blond haired English girl was Madeleine (or Maddie, a name Healey initially insisted she would not respond to) would be enough, they wouldn't know any better.

No photos, no DNA, no toothbrush, no creche artefacts etc. Was she even there at that time? If the witness quoted above saying they were in the Algarve a month earlier is correct, a whole new vista opens up.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by jd on 18.09.12 22:37

@Ross wrote:I haven't followed this case with the same degree of forensic attention as many here have, so may I please ask a question?

Do we have any definitive, fully corroborated and unequivocal evidence that Madeleine flew to the Algarve with her parents in late April? There has been plenty of evidence to suggest this was the case, airport bus footage for example, but the stated date and place of that could be fake. The group all say she was, as do other related witnesses, but to my mind their subsequent actions leave their credibility compromised and therefore their testimony suspect. For more peripheral witnesses, just to be told that this four year old blond haired English girl was Madeleine (or Maddie, a name Healey initially insisted she would not respond to) would be enough, they wouldn't know any better.

No photos, no DNA, no toothbrush, no creche artefacts etc. Was she even there at that time? If the witness quoted above saying they were in the Algarve a month earlier is correct, a whole new vista opens up.

The short answer is no but the PJ would have got the proof and evidence required which I assume has not been released to the public in the PJ files.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Ross on 18.09.12 22:58

@jd wrote:The short answer is no but the PJ would have got the proof and evidence required which I assume has not been released to the public in the PJ files.

Okay, so there is nothing in the public domain, we have to assume that the PJ has something undisclosed. Would they even look to confirm this? It would not be a regular part of such a investigation, it would be reasonable for them to take it as read that Madeleine was there at the time claimed. Thinking aloud, how could they actually prove it? Airline records? They can be altered by spooks. Passport control at Faro? Even if Madeleine's passport was scanned, a substitute child, (asleep on a shoulder maybe?) probably wouldn't be noticed. Even so, bearing in mind the direct intervention of the ambassador with the director of the PJ this line of investigation could be blocked internally.

So can we even place Madeleine in 5a that week? It seems we can't. Fascinating.

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by jd on 18.09.12 23:49

@Ross wrote:
@jd wrote:The short answer is no but the PJ would have got the proof and evidence required which I assume has not been released to the public in the PJ files.

Okay, so there is nothing in the public domain, we have to assume that the PJ has something undisclosed. Would they even look to confirm this? It would not be a regular part of such a investigation, it would be reasonable for them to take it as read that Madeleine was there at the time claimed. Thinking aloud, how could they actually prove it? Airline records? They can be altered by spooks. Passport control at Faro? Even if Madeleine's passport was scanned, a substitute child, (asleep on a shoulder maybe?) probably wouldn't be noticed. Even so, bearing in mind the direct intervention of the ambassador with the director of the PJ this line of investigation could be blocked internally.

So can we even place Madeleine in 5a that week? It seems we can't. Fascinating.

I believe Maddie was there, but because something happened early in the holiday it seems like she wasn't

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Re: Gerry McCanns Credit Cards

Post by Ross on 19.09.12 0:21

@jd wrote:I believe Maddie was there, but because something happened early in the holiday it seems like she wasn't

But, or so it seems, we can't prove she was for that week, and evidence which could have done so, and should have been there, was not (photos, DNA etc). And cadaverine scent lingers for more than a month doesn't it?

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