The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Missing Tia Sharp

Page 40 of 40 Previous  1 ... 21 ... 38, 39, 40

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by Guest on 17.08.12 21:48

@EJW wrote:For the upteenth time I have just posted a reply and it hasn't appeared!! This is driving me nuts, is there anyway to retrieve the post that wasn't posted?

You will probably find it in your profile under drafts. That happens if you try to post something at the same time as someone else and you press save instead of modify.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by EJW on 17.08.12 21:54

@admin wrote:
@EJW wrote:For the upteenth time I have just posted a reply and it hasn't appeared!! This is driving me nuts, is there anyway to retrieve the post that wasn't posted?

You will probably find it in your profile under drafts. That happens if you try to post something at the same time as someone else and you press save instead of modify.



Thank you Admin, I did try that but it seems to have disappeared into the ether! I must be doing something wrong as it happens often but there is nothing in my drafts? Never mind and sorry it should have read umpteenth rather than upteenth

EJW

Posts : 183
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by pauline on 17.08.12 22:17

I think the level of debate has improved in recent posts. It is simplistic to say that having a poor childhood (in a money sense) with less than adequate parents in indifferent and/or council housing means automatically that you will not become a responsible adult. Educational opportunities and caring teachers can be very important.

I was brought up on welfare benefits after my low paid worker father died. I was the first person in my family to get a degree. Subsequently I gained other qualifications. My children all have third level education. I live in a 'nice' area but I don't forget my background and I don't value money.

From what we know, Tia seems to have lived in a crowded housing situation (not always, as her half brothers are much younger than her) and I can understand her wanting to get out to her granny's house where there was more space. It would appear that her mother only had a 2 bedroomed flat. Why did she have 2 more children in this context? Maybe part of the reason was to get points on the housing list to get a bigger place. Who knows? Did Tia's mother or her new partner work? I don't know. My now middle class values tell me they should have waited to have more children until they could afford to rent or buy a bigger place. But I feel guilty about thinking this.


pauline

Posts : 548
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-05-08

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by EJW on 17.08.12 22:35

@pauline wrote:I think the level of debate has improved in recent posts. It is simplistic to say that having a poor childhood (in a money sense) with less than adequate parents in indifferent and/or council housing means automatically that you will not become a responsible adult. Educational opportunities and caring teachers can be very important.

I was brought up on welfare benefits after my low paid worker father died. I was the first person in my family to get a degree. Subsequently I gained other qualifications. My children all have third level education. I live in a 'nice' area but I don't forget my background and I don't value money.

From what we know, Tia seems to have lived in a crowded housing situation (not always, as her half brothers are much younger than her) and I can understand her wanting to get out to her granny's house where there was more space. It would appear that her mother only had a 2 bedroomed flat. Why did she have 2 more children in this context? Maybe part of the reason was to get points on the housing list to get a bigger place. Who knows? Did Tia's mother or her new partner work? I don't know. My now middle class values tell me they should have waited to have more children until they could afford to rent or buy a bigger place. But I feel guilty about thinking this.


That's an interesting post Pauline, I have also felt guilty about some of the thoughts I have had about this case. As I mentioned before, we have no way of knowing how poor Tia's life would pan out, she may have become sucked into this cycle of deprivation or Tia may have wanted to do better than her own parents, as is natural and give herself a better life. It's almost a "toss the coin" situation, carry on as before or buck the trend. It's anyone's guess, but ultimately this little girl has had that opportunity denied her. God bless you Tia for all that you could have become, as is every childs right.

EJW

Posts : 183
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by guest. on 17.08.12 22:38

I agree with you Pauline, I find it irresponsible to purposefully have more children when you can't support the

ones you already have

It's different if you're left in a situation with children that you can't support but to have children knowing

you'll be expecting the tax payers to provide for them is wrong to me

There is an underclass who live on the dole and have no intention of doing otherwise living along side

decent hard working people on council estates

guest.

Posts : 322
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-08-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by Gillyspot on 17.08.12 22:44

Sally where I agree that it is irresponsible and selfish to have children that you cannot afford to support yourself and indeed I know very well some of those you are talking about but not all folk who are poor and on the dole are like this at all.

I have friends from a "sink" estate who are trying their best to get a job & are doing an awesome job with their lovely children too.

Remember on this thread some may be giving the appearance of "people" think that certain middle class Drs couldn't have done it.

Sorry rant over. friends

____________________
Kate McCann "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances"

Gillyspot

Posts : 1470
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-06-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by aiyoyo on 17.08.12 22:45

Oh dear,. It was nothing personal nor snobbery, and not meant to offend anyone.

It's a fact dysfunctional family often cascades and breaking that effect is exception, not the norm.
It takes but one generation to rise above that and to set good examples for ensuing generations to emulate.

Dysfunctional family comes in many forms, and depending on the degree of severity, it can and does affect people in that environment differently.
The more severe the dysfunction the greater the difficulty for children in those circumstances to break free away from that, hence the sink estates that are still prevalent in the country. Otherwise why are there still sink estates, where and how they become sink estates, and who made them that way?

Being poor or living in council estate is not a problem - those are not contributory factors to a dysfunctional family.
Rather it's about people's mentality and psychology that are contributory factors, and not about how much money one has or has not.
Invariably it's about people who refused to take responsibility for their life or be accountable to themselves, their family, and by extension to the society.

It's also a fact people from poor background (and sometimes also from a certain kind of dysfunctional family) can and do change their life and environment if they consciously choose to be responsible and accountable for their own life by making things happened for them through self achievement by conscientious and diligent efforts and in so doing they improve the quality of their life all round for themselves, their family a generation up (their parents) and understandably a generation down (their children), the latter hence again the cascading effect. It's also about IQs level and being willing to be educated and taught.

Apathy or empathy is all about people's mentality and attitude, while neither is particularly specific to dysfunctional families, the former is more common in severely dysfunctional families than not.

In the case of Tia Sharp, which is the discussion at hand, I am talking about "dysfunctional" in her context.
We know a little bit about her dysfunctional background.
A dad who has last seen his young daughter two years ago certainly is not demonstration of enough care for her.
If that's not apathy I don't know what is since he must have know of her situation.
If he didn't know about her transient accommodation shuttling between mum and grandma, and in one of them she didn't even have a room and had to sleep on settee, then that is even worst apathy. Which then begs the question did he know about her daily routine, her friends, her life, her schools, her joy, her sorrow, her problems, her hobby, her dreams, her favourite food, favorite movies, so on and so forth.

Was she precious to him then if she was so precious to him now.-.that's the saddest part for her.




I

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by Gillyspot on 17.08.12 22:48

@aiyoyo wrote:Oh dear,. It was nothing person nor snobbery, and not meant to offend anyone.

In the case of Tia Sharp, which is the discussion at hand, I am talking about "dysfunctional" in her context.
We know a little bit about her dysfunctional background.
A dad who has last seen his young daughter two years ago certainly is not demonstration of enough care for her.
If that's not apathy I don't know what is since he must have know of her situation.
If he didn't know about her transient accommodation shuttling between mum and grandma, and in one of them she didn't even have a room and had to sleep on settee, then that is even worst apathy. Which then begs the question did he know about her daily routine, her friends, her life, her schools, her joy, her sorrow, her problems, her hobby, her dreams, her favourite food, favorite movies, so on and so forth.

Was she precious to him then if she was so precious to him now.-.that's the saddest part for her.

I

Very well put. What a short sad life Tia must have had. sad

I hope that this review makes sure no other child is abandoned by the authorities (police/social services/school) as Tia seems to have been.

____________________
Kate McCann "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances"

Gillyspot

Posts : 1470
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-06-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by Cristobell on 17.08.12 22:56

Many key workers are on a minimum wage, unable to afford to their own properties and dependent on social housing. This does not make them despised under achievers.

Cristobell

Posts : 2436
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-10-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by aiyoyo on 17.08.12 22:57

@Gillyspot wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Oh dear,. It was nothing person nor snobbery, and not meant to offend anyone.

In the case of Tia Sharp, which is the discussion at hand, I am talking about "dysfunctional" in her context.
We know a little bit about her dysfunctional background.
A dad who has last seen his young daughter two years ago certainly is not demonstration of enough care for her.
If that's not apathy I don't know what is since he must have know of her situation.
If he didn't know about her transient accommodation shuttling between mum and grandma, and in one of them she didn't even have a room and had to sleep on settee, then that is even worst apathy. Which then begs the question did he know about her daily routine, her friends, her life, her schools, her joy, her sorrow, her problems, her hobby, her dreams, her favourite food, favorite movies, so on and so forth.

Was she precious to him then if she was so precious to him now.-.that's the saddest part for her.

I

Very well put. What a short sad life Tia must have had. sad

I hope that this review makes sure no other child is abandoned by the authorities (police/social services/school) as Tia seems to have been.

Sorry Gillyspot, just editing my post you quoted as I noticed my error - I meant to say "nothing personal". and not "nothing person".

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by Guest on 17.08.12 23:05

@aiyoyo wrote: [...]
A dad who has last seen his young daughter two years ago certainly is not demonstration of enough care for her.
If that's not apathy I don't know what is since he must have know of her situation.
If he didn't know about her transient accommodation shuttling between mum and grandma, and in one of them she didn't even have a room and had to sleep on settee, then that is even worst apathy. Which then begs the question did he know about her daily routine, her friends, her life, her schools, her joy, her sorrow, her problems, her hobby, her dreams, her favourite food, favorite movies, so on and so forth.

Was she precious to him then if she was so precious to him now.-.that's the saddest part for her.
***
Very sad. IMO He's just another one going for his 15 minutes of fame ... sad




I

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Admin help

Post by EJW on 17.08.12 23:08

Even my complaint about not being able to post hasn't been posted!! What is going on? It's not in drafts and it's not on the site!

EJW

Posts : 183
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by Gillyspot on 17.08.12 23:08

@EJW wrote:For the upteenth time I have just posted a reply and it hasn't appeared!! This is driving me nuts, is there anyway to retrieve the post that wasn't posted?

It is here EJW.

____________________
Kate McCann "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances"

Gillyspot

Posts : 1470
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-06-13

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by EJW on 17.08.12 23:15

@Gillyspot wrote:
@EJW wrote:For the upteenth time I have just posted a reply and it hasn't appeared!! This is driving me nuts, is there anyway to retrieve the post that wasn't posted?

It is here EJW.

Where is it Gillyspot? I must be doing something wrong as I can't see anything

EJW

Posts : 183
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-01-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by guest. on 17.08.12 23:17

Gillyspot - I don't think everybody on the dole is a waster I know a lot of people end up in that situation for reasons out of their control and try their hardest but there are a lot who have no intention of getting a job and have the mentality of being entitled to be supported by the state, I have lived on an estate amongst it all and there are a lot of good things about living on an estate too

The amount of times I have heard 'I don't want a job because I'm no better off than I am on the dole' - It really winds me up, the welfare state

should be a safety net for the vulnerable in society not a lifestyle choice

Also as I have already stated I don't consider being poor or living in a council house as being dysfunctional, the minimum wage is not enough for people to support themselves on in a lot of cases and people on the minimum wage or just above are obviously wanting to work and support themselves

I feel intentionally having kids while on the dole with no intention of working and expecting tax payers to support you as setting an example of irresponsibilty,

if kids see you trying to find work they will follow that example too

Aiyoyo - You put it much more eloquently what I have been trying to say

Dysfunctional families cover all classes - neglect, physical abuse, mental abuse & sexual abuse are classless

But however unpopular this view is I have found the lack of work ethic to be predominantly an estate problem

guest.

Posts : 322
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-08-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Missing Tia Sharp

Post by aiyoyo on 17.08.12 23:26

@ Sally
I think what I'm trying to say is if you do have a dysfunctional background you TEND to either fight toooth and nail to provide a stable

happy life for your kids or you follow the patterns

I don't consider being poor or from a council house as a dysfunctional background just the way you are raised

Absolutely!

And it's not about under achiever or their inferiority complex or perception of people looking down on them because they cannot afford to get on the property ladder or having less than others or what not, it's nothing of that sort as one poster seemed to imply. Financial riches or achievement does not define you.

It's about having the intelligence to care and to love, and total responsibility for your family in how you raise children your brought to this world, and not expecting the state to provide unconditionally to upkeep you and your children, and about setting them examples they can emulate and so on and so forth.

A large majority of people were extremely poor some few decades ago and that's the norm not the exception with many housed in council estates, yet the next generation managed to become, lawyers, architects, engineers, doctors, teachers, skilled and specialists and also all kind of contributors to build up the country. So, where has that gone now? That level of integrity and dignity?

A

-------

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/viewtopic.forum?t=5465

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 40 of 40 Previous  1 ... 21 ... 38, 39, 40

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum