Missing Tia Sharp

candyfloss wrote:So many heartbreaking pictures here of Tia's mother and all her family laying flowers..........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187320/Tia-Sharp-murder-Heartbroken-mother-joins-mourners-leaving-tributes-Stuart-Hazell-charged.html

I don't know how Tia's mum will ever come to terms with the fact her own mother was involved in her daughters death.

admin wrote:

candyfloss wrote:So many heartbreaking pictures here of Tia's mother and all her family laying flowers..........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187320/Tia-Sharp-murder-Heartbroken-mother-joins-mourners-leaving-tributes-Stuart-Hazell-charged.html

I don't know how Tia's mum will ever come to terms with the fact her own mother was involved in her daughters death.

She hasn't been charged with anything though, but released on bail. Don't quite know what that means, as they charged SH quick enough. I know that Rebekah Brooks was bailed wasn't she then charged a couple of months later. Can someone explain, does it mean they are going through more evidence?

admin wrote:

candyfloss wrote:So many heartbreaking pictures here of Tia's mother and all her family laying flowers..........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187320/Tia-Sharp-murder-Heartbroken-mother-joins-mourners-leaving-tributes-Stuart-Hazell-charged.html

I don't know how Tia's mum will ever come to terms with the fact her own mother was involved in her daughters death.

May they find the strength and courage to face the difficult road ahead. And may those who have lied and covered up now do the decent thing.

Tia Sharp: Father speaks of horror at being yards from her body during search

Tia Sharp’s father has spoken of his horror at being only feet away from his daughter’s dead body when he joined the desperate hunt to find her last week.

By Martin Evans, Crime Correspondent

1:56PM BST 12 Aug 2012


Steven Carter said he has been left devastated by her death adding: “I didn’t think it would end like this.”


His comments came as Stuart Hazell, 37, the boyfriend of Tia’s grandmother, was charged with murdering the schoolgirl.


Mr Carter, who lives in Northampton, said he had travelled to south London to help in the search when his daughter was first reported missing.


He said his first stop had been at her grandmother, Christine Sharp's house, but he had not been allowed entry.


He explained: “Now it seems so much harder, because when I was outside that house, I was probably only feet away from her body, and to know that is heart-breaking.”


Mr Carter, who is separated from Tia’s mother, Natalie, added: “It has hit us all very hard. In my wildest thoughts I didn't think it would end like this.

"I know the police have done their job and I'm grateful, but I think they could have investigated that house more from the start.

"I am devastated. I will never get to see my little girl again. I will never be able to hold her and kiss her."

Mr Hazell, who was charged with Tia’s murder overnight and will appear in court tomorrow.

Tia’s grandmother Mrs Sharp, was also arrested on suspicion of murder but has since been bailed.

Paul Meehan, 39 - Tia's grandmother's next door neighbour - was arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender, but has also been bailed.

Mr Carter revealed how he had received a telephone call from David Niles, Natalie's current boyfriend, to say she was missing at 1.15am last Saturday.

The 30-year-old claims Mr Niles told him not to worry because he thought Tia was staying at a friends' house - but later on Saturday morning he received another call "to say it had turned to critical".

Mr Carter dropped his partner Melissa and son Thomas, 8, in south Devon, where they were heading at the time for a holiday, and then drove up to New Addington.

He arrived at 4pm on Saturday and immediately began helping to search for missing Tia.

Mr Carter added: "That first night I got to New Addington, I stayed outside the house and they wouldn't let me in.

"If I had known then what I know now, I would have gone into the house and searched it myself. I hope the police get everyone involved in this now for justice for my daughter."

Police removed the body from 20 The Lindens, at around 11.30pm on Friday night but on Saturday the Met admitted "human error" had delayed finding the body for days.

Officers released a statement apologising for any "distress" caused and said a personal apology had been given to Tia's mother, Natalie.

A post-mortem examination to formally identify the body and determine a cause of death is due to resume today.

Meanwhile locals on the New Addington estate have said they are frightened to let their children play outside.

Karen Browns, 52, said: "For the first couple of weeks of the summer holidays that park was full of children playing. But in the past week there has been an eerie silence.

"Parents aren't letting their kids play outside. It is like a ghost town. People in this area are scared. They don't know who to trust anymore."

Mother-of-two Collette O'Brien spent everyday last week handing out leaflets and talking to shopkeepers trying to find Tia Sharp.

She said: "Tia was just a baby, she was only 12 years-old. It is so tragic this has happened.

"I am scared for my 12 year-old daughter to go out. I make her text me 24/7.

"This has happened on my doorstep and I'm scared. You don't know who might be living next door to you.

"The area has been emptied because of this. It is like a ghost town. The parks and streets are empty because people are afraid. For a child to die, it is just horrific."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9470638/Tia-Sharp-Father-speaks-of-horror-at-being-yards-from-her-body-during-search.html

candyfloss wrote:She hasn't been charged with anything though, but released on bail. Don't quite know what that means, as they charged SH quick enough. I know that Rebekah Brooks was bailed wasn't she then charged a couple of months later. Can someone explain, does it mean they are going through more evidence?

It means:

1. They think they have enough evidence to charge Stuart Hazell with murder

2. At present, they do not have enough evidence to charge either of the other two with anything. The grandmother was arrested on SUSPICION OF MURDER ('grounds to suspect...'). They do not have enough evidence to charge her but are continung to investigate the matter. Normally you are bailed for a specified period, say 4, 6 or 8 weeks, and asked to report at a police station at a certain date or time.

Then you will either be released, charged, or maybe bailed again for another few weeks while they gather more evidence

Tony Bennett wrote:

candyfloss wrote:She hasn't been charged with anything though, but released on bail. Don't quite know what that means, as they charged SH quick enough. I know that Rebekah Brooks was bailed wasn't she then charged a couple of months later. Can someone explain, does it mean they are going through more evidence?

It means:

1. They think they have enough evidence to charge Stuart Hazell with murder

2. At present, they do not have enough evidence to charge either of the other two with anything. The grandmother was arrested on SUSPICION OF MURDER ('grounds to suspect...'). They do not have enough evidence to charge her but are continung to investigate the matter. Normally you are bailed for a specified period, say 4, 6 or 8 weeks, and asked to report at a police station at a certain date or time.

Then you will either be released, charged, or maybe bailed again for another few weeks while they gather more evidence

Thanks Tony,

It's a tragic, shocking and numbing thing to happen to this child. You can feel the pain in the words that these people are saying. So many lives affected. I hope Tia didn't suffer too much. You have to wonder why people have tried to cover up her death and parade themselves in Tshirts claiming she was missing. Only evil scum would do something like that to a child.

It is believed, however, that the bus driver told police he saw Tia leave her grandmother’s house and walk down the path towards the end of the street the day she was reported missing.
His information may have thrown officers off the scent after their initial line of inquiry had been that Mr Hazell had been the last person to see Tia alive.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187320/Tia-Sharp-murder-Heartbroken-mother-joins-mourners-leaving-tributes-Stuart-Hazell-charged.html#ixzz23MaC7fLV

So it goes to show not only sardine munchers can be thrown off the trail or line of inquiry?

After this case which bears so many parallels to the other high profile one, I wonder whether Andy Redwood will change his decision or move the percentage of the chances of his belief of Madeleine being alive or sadly dead or do the wise thing and recommend that mccanns and friends should be re-looked at properly?

After this case which bears so many parallels to the other high profile one, I wonder whether Andy Redwood will change his decision or move the percentage of the chances of his belief of Madeleine being alive or sadly dead or do the wise thing and recommend that mccanns and friends should be re-looked at properly?

Hear hear. Andy Redwood - do something out of the ordinary, in memory of Tia. Do the RIGHT thing - please.

AskTheDogsSandra wrote:It's a tragic, shocking and numbing thing to happen to this child. You can feel the pain in the words that these people are saying. So many lives affected. I hope Tia didn't suffer too much. You have to wonder why people have tried to cover up her death and parade themselves in Tshirts claiming she was missing. Only evil scum would do something like that to a child.

Don't forget people were fooled by the perpetrator from the word GO, and many good hearted people helped searched for her and they didn't give up until the body was discovered.

Some 60 sightings were reported in within a short few days, this in spite the fact her body laid in the house all along. Just goes to show people don't have to wait to be implored or begged to search - they naturally did it out of good faith, and a genuine belief she was missing. No wonder people are rightly fury at the deceit and the Police blunders at the initial searches.

eta: ambassador kate silence on this is deafening.......not even a word of empathic or condolence for Tia's mum and family.
It's apparent she's avoiding this like plague in case people are reminded of all the parallels and all the holes in her story.

aiyoyo wrote: It's apparent she's avoiding this like plague in case people are reminded of all the parallels and all the holes in her story.

Well said, aiyoyo.

It is a dreadful outcome for TM.
The dogs alerted, but the humans refused to believe them, and did not locate what the dogs were indicating.
So the humans then resorted to saying the dogs might be mistaken,
Eventually a human made the decision that the dogs were right, and the proper search, relying on the integrity of the dogs, was made.
The dogs were once again proved to be right.

This goes right to the heart of the case.

aiyoyo wrote:[quote="
eta: ambassador kate silence on this is deafening.......not even a word of empathic or condolence for Tia's mum and family.
It's apparent she's avoiding this like plague in case people are reminded of all the parallels and all the holes in her story.

KM would also avoid these faked missing children's cases like plague because they don't fit in with her image. We must remember we are dealing with a couple of highly ambitious achievers and social climbers who want nothing better than to rub shoulders with the rich and the famous. Kate doesn't work any more; she does charities. No way she would want to be associated with the scums from sink estates.

PeterMac wrote:It is a dreadful outcome for TM.
The dogs alerted, but the humans refused to believe them, and did not locate what the dogs were indicating.
So the humans then resorted to saying the dogs might be mistaken,
Eventually a human made the decision that the dogs were right, and the proper search, relying on the integrity of the dogs, was made.
The dogs were once again proved to be right.

This goes right to the heart of the case.

***
Amen, PeterMac. And all of this for the love of a toy.
Tennisball for Eddie, rubber ring for this EVRD.

Email to Missing Persons

I refer to the recent entry on your web site about the girl Tia Sharp.
Now she has been found, dead, you have simply removed the entry with no explanation.
She has simply been wiped from your memory, as if she never existed, and as if her short life and death were of no value.
There is no message of condolence, no sympathy shown, and no acceptance that you were misled into thinking that she was missing, rather than the victim of a domestic murder.

May I suggest wording along these lines.

"Sorry, we made a huge error and were sucked into a long attempt to mislead you, the public.
We believed a man who has convictions and has served considerable time in prison for drug dealing and possession of offensive weapon, and who is now accused of murder, and did not listen to professionals in the field of missing persons who always say you should look at the family.
We got it badly wrong.
We are very sorry.
Lessons have been learned and we shall now re-examine every one of our other posted Missing persons in the light of what we are told by people who know what they are talking about.
We also intend, as a matter of urgency, to treat with considerable suspicion any family member of a person reported missing who seeks to put him or herself in the public eye"

That might do it, and get you some credibility back.

Yours sincerely
Peter Mac
other details
(Follower of the Madeleine case since 2007.)

So should people write to Andy Redwood asking when the Yard is going to take the dogs marking on the mccanns case seriously when Sharp's case proves once again dogs are very reliable - its the human who made the wrong decision.
Surely the Yard has to explain the dogs' alerts and cant simply brush it aside because the mccanns wished it to be brushed aside.

Since when it is down to suspect to decide the validity or otherwise of evidence found be it circumstantial or otherwise when it should be the police's job to prove or disprove it.

aiyoyo wrote:So should people write to Andy Redwood asking when the Yard is going to take the dogs marking on the mccanns case seriously when Sharp's case proves once again dogs are very reliable - its the human who made the wrong decision.
Surely the Yard has to explain the dogs' alerts and cant simply brush it aside because the mccanns wished it to be brushed aside.

Since when it is down to suspect to decide the validity or otherwise of evidence found be it circumstantial or otherwise when it should be the police's job to prove or disprove it.

I think Mr Redwood knows very well how good these dogs are, why else would the Police use them and even just recently in the Prout and Pilley cases (if I remember the names correctly). Also Mr Grimes now works with the FBI with his dogs. The police use them and will keep using them they know that they are notoriously RELIABLE.

Ribisl wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:[quote="
eta: ambassador kate silence on this is deafening.......not even a word of empathic or condolence for Tia's mum and family.
It's apparent she's avoiding this like plague in case people are reminded of all the parallels and all the holes in her story.

KM would also avoid these faked missing children's cases like plague because they don't fit in with her image. We must remember we are dealing with a couple of highly ambitious achievers and social climbers who want nothing better than to rub shoulders with the rich and the famous. Kate doesn't work any more; she does charities. No way she would want to be associated with the scums from sink estates.

But not all missing persons are from sink estates.

Anyhow she should be impartial without prejudice or discrimination else it defeats the purpose of having her as ambassador unless Missing People engage ambassador under different categories representing scum bags and representing quick-scheme-get-rich wannabes respectively/

candyfloss wrote:

aiyoyo wrote:So should people write to Andy Redwood asking when the Yard is going to take the dogs marking on the mccanns case seriously when Sharp's case proves once again dogs are very reliable - its the human who made the wrong decision.
Surely the Yard has to explain the dogs' alerts and cant simply brush it aside because the mccanns wished it to be brushed aside.

Since when it is down to suspect to decide the validity or otherwise of evidence found be it circumstantial or otherwise when it should be the police's job to prove or disprove it.

I think Mr Redwood knows very well how good these dogs are, why else would the Police use them and even just recently in the Prout and Pilley cases (if I remember the names correctly). Also Mr Grimes now works with the FBI with his dogs. The police use them and will keep using them they know that they are notoriously RELIABLE.

In that case more so he should be asked why he refused to treat the dogs alerts seriously where the mccanns case is concerned? How is mccanns case different from all the others where dogs signalled cadaver.

aiyoyo wrote: In that case more so he should be asked why he refused to treat the dogs alerts seriously where the mccanns case is concerned? How is mccanns case different from all the others where dogs signalled cadaver.

Government powers is the answer. Jill Dando case is ever a government line there has ever been and Redwood totally towed it, its what he was there for and the mccanns have probably surpassed this but this is the real reason why Redwood is in charge of the Maddie case. There's no point in speculating otherwise as this is the real truth, but feel free to amend this post appropriately if this doesn't fall in line with the facts protocol...I clearly have misunderstood for the best part of a year this forum and maybe getting the true facts across I should be somewhere else

One curious issue. Why have they stopped the autopsy on Tia Saturday night and not going to continue until later in the week? This is what Sky news are saying. Surely once they start they should finish and I do not understand the reason for a 3/4 day break before continuing

Mail is interesting this morning. Their "sources" say she was in the neighbouring loft space (hence the need for the warrant and the delay) in a rigid suitcase.
If correct, or even if nearly correct, it fits exactly with the scenario we have been discussing about humans refusing to believe the canines.

Note also that it was after the Wednesday search, with a dog, which produced nothing except a probable alert and the statement that the dog must be mistaken, - after that search he was taken in for questioning for a couple of hours. They knew there was a gross mismatch between what the dog was saying, and what they were finding, so at that point they had no choice but to push it a bit further. And then they get a warrant to tear it apart if necessary - a warrant excuses necessary damage, pulling down partitions, prising open locked wardrobes and so on - rather than the more gentlemanly search for a missing child with the permission of the householder, which is what they had been doing.

And they admit openly and publicly that the mistake was down to HUMAN error. Not CANINE.
Nein, Nein, not Canine

And just as an aside, why do people think that Redwood does not trust the dogs ?
His position is very difficult. The consequences of jumping too early, or trying to take on something for which he has no legal authority would be devastating. Most of what he is reviewing is outside the jurisdiction. Only the "Fund" is on English soil.
Please try to understand his position. He may be a sandwich muncher, but he may be the most astute character we have seen.
Never underestimate the quiet man !

jd wrote:

Government powers is the answer. Jill Dando case is ever a government line there has ever been and Redwood totally towed it, its what he was there for and the mccanns have probably surpassed this but this is the real reason why Redwood is in charge of the Maddie case. There's no point in speculating otherwise as this is the real truth, but feel free to amend this post appropriately if this doesn't fall in line with the facts protocol...I clearly have misunderstood for the best part of a year this forum and maybe getting the true facts across I should be somewhere else

Jd, you have made a rather bold statement here, suggesting your way of thinking is the only correct way of thinking. Yet you offer no evidence. Until the review is completed we do not know what it will find. I personally find the silence from SY encouraging as it means they are getting on with their job without constant media interruption.

jd wrote:One curious issue. Why have they stopped the autopsy on Tia Saturday night and not going to continue until later in the week? This is what Sky news are saying. Surely once they start they should finish and I do not understand the reason for a 3/4 day break before continuing

I'm puzzled about that too. It's not unheard of for the results of an autopsy to be inconclusive (Amy Winehouse's for example) and further tests have to be done but I haven't heard of an autopsy being adjourned before it's been completed.