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The weakest link

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The weakest link

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:08 am

Just been reading the mccannfiles and an article the 4th down about one of the Mccanns friends wanting to change their statement. Some interesting quotes in it from the solicitor of this friend who has an office in London. Did this ever happen I wonder? Someone was not a happy bunny according to this. It seems that if this article has any truth in it, and considering it has direct quotes from the solicitor, then shouldn't SY be interviewing this person urgently.

IIRC there is a statement missing from the files from David Payne





Well worth reading the article below 4th down on the page in the link........



McCanns accused of pressuring Tapas Nine to 'keep them silent' Daily Mail (no longer available online)


Last updated at 15:04pm on 12th November 2007

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id18.html


"The intention of my client is to bring to light the truth of this sad story, without any concern for who might be implicated."

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Re: The weakest link

Post by david_uk on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:49 pm

Forget the inconsistances, lies or spin etc etc etc. Here is the only 3 questions I would personally like the answer to:

1. Who was the Tapas member who wanted to tell the truth but was silenced?
2. Where is the large Blue Bag seen in the Wardrobe
3. Where is the Pink Blanket

3 very Simple questions, 2 can be answered easily by The Mccanns, the other my that Tapas member.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by tigger on Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:07 pm

@david_uk wrote:Forget the inconsistances, lies or spin etc etc etc. Here is the only 3 questions I would personally like the answer to:

1. Who was the Tapas member who wanted to tell the truth but was silenced?
2. Where is the large Blue Bag seen in the Wardrobe
3. Where is the Pink Blanket

3 very Simple questions, 2 can be answered easily by The Mccanns, the other my that Tapas member.
It was ROB and JT who wanted to change their statements.
See the topics on October07, November07, December and January 08.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by russiandoll on Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:27 pm

I suspect it is ROB in this article.
Helped with the timeline.
Absent from tapas table Tues 1st May for the evening. [ He stated in his RI Tues or Wed, JT said absence was Mon or Tues, Kate's diary said clearly Tuesday] Maddie crying episode.
He was absent 3rd May for the crucial pre-abduction period.
He was absent from court.

Have been convinced for months that he and JT allowed Ella to be carried by Gerry .

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Re: The weakest link

Post by david_uk on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:27 pm

make that 4

1. Who was the Tapas member who wanted to tell the truth but was silenced?
2. Where is the large Blue Bag seen in the Wardrobe
3. Where is the Pink Blanket
4. What exactly was the problem with the fridge in 5A? Was it removed, why? where is it?

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Re: The weakest link

Post by sami on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:37 pm

@david_uk wrote:make that 4

1. Who was the Tapas member who wanted to tell the truth but was silenced?
2. Where is the large Blue Bag seen in the Wardrobe
3. Where is the Pink Blanket
4. What exactly was the problem with the fridge in 5A? Was it removed, why? where is it?

Hi David_Uk, with regard to point 4, as far as I am aware the fridge that is said to have been removed was so removed from the villa later rented by the couple, not apartment 5a.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by sweetex on Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:47 pm

@sami wrote:
@david_uk wrote:make that 4

1. Who was the Tapas member who wanted to tell the truth but was silenced?
2. Where is the large Blue Bag seen in the Wardrobe
3. Where is the Pink Blanket
4. What exactly was the problem with the fridge in 5A? Was it removed, why? where is it?

Hi David_Uk, with regard to point 4, as far as I am aware the fridge that is said to have been removed was so removed from the villa later rented by the couple, not apartment 5a.

I agree. It was the one from the villa. I am trying to find something credible about it, but the gist of it is


The story goes he claimed the fridge was faulty so he took it to the dump and replaced the one in the villa, he apparently blogged about it but then deleted it when he was made a suspect.

http://www.pistonheads.com/GASSING/topic.asp?h=0&t=923779&d=11453.42710&nmt=

The story behind the fridge in 5A was something about one of the GNR officers who said in his statement that he looked everywhere in the apt, even the washing machine but "did not see the fridge". Which could mean anything from he didn't see the fridge, or he saw it but never looked inside.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by saltnpepper on Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:30 pm

@russiandoll wrote: I suspect it is ROB in this article.
Helped with the timeline.
Absent from tapas table Tues 1st May for the evening. [ He stated in his RI Tues or Wed, JT said absence was Mon or Tues, Kate's diary said clearly Tuesday] Maddie crying episode.
He was absent 3rd May for the crucial pre-abduction period.
He was absent from court.

Have been convinced for months that he and JT allowed Ella to be carried by Gerry .

Im convinced too,the checking (look out) system certainly allowed for a green light to be given for this to happen
Would certainly add another tapas member to the weakest link...the last known person to have entered the apartment before Kate raised the alarm
Lets hope for Madeleines sake that a police force will actually target a weakest link or two

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Re: The weakest link

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:30 pm

@saltnpepper wrote:[...]
Would certainly add another tapas member to the weakest link...the last known person to have entered the apartment before Kate raised the alarm
Lets hope for Madeleines sake that a police force will actually target a weakest link or two
***
The last KNOWN person to have entered the apartment before Kate raised the alarm was Gerry.

Matt Oldfield said he checked on Madeleine [did not say say: checked on the children] by entering the apartment.
When asked to describe the apartment, he gave the wrong description of curtains, tables and a non-existing bookshelf. In fact he described his own apartment ...

There are some people whose shoes I wouldn't want to walk in and O'Brien & Oldfield are two of them.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:45 pm

Châtelaine wrote:
@saltnpepper wrote:[...]
Would certainly add another tapas member to the weakest link...the last known person to have entered the apartment before Kate raised the alarm
Lets hope for Madeleines sake that a police force will actually target a weakest link or two
***
The last KNOWN person to have entered the apartment before Kate raised the alarm was Gerry.

Matt Oldfield said he checked on Madeleine [did not say say: checked on the children] by entering the apartment.
When asked to describe the apartment, he gave the wrong description of curtains, tables and a non-existing bookshelf. In fact he described his own apartment ...

There are some people whose shoes I wouldn't want to walk in and O'Brien & Oldfield are two of them.

MO actually entered the apartment according to the McCanns documentary Madeleine was here he is inside the apartment. Here is the transcript................



Voice over: At 9.30 pm, half an hour after G’s check it was MO’s turn to look in on all the children. He went into the Mc’s apartment, but didn’t go into the bedroom and so didn’t see if Madeleine was missing.

MO: Pretty much from the approach down here, you can see straight into the room. So you can see the cots as you are walking in. So it never really felt like there was any real need to, sort of, go all the way into the room. Erm, you could see both cots and see into them from there. I, sort of, ummed and ahed about the angle and things. All I just know is that I had an unimpeded view and it was just dead quiet, and just… why I didn’t take those extra couple of steps in

G: Yeah, I mean, I was saying this earlier, that at no point, other than that night, did I go stick my head in. That was the only time, because the door was like that. I mean, I knew how I’d left it.

MO: It’s more that you know I’d felt you’d done enough. You’ve been and seen. It’s quiet.



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id235.html


So he says himself he went in but did not see Madeleine. Know what you mean about describing the apartment. He also said the bedroom had two windows in the original statement.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:49 pm

G: Yeah, I mean, I was saying this earlier, that at no point, other than that night, did I go stick my head in. That was the only time, because the door was like that. I mean, I knew how I’d left it.


So according to GM he never went into the bedroom on any of the nights. The children could have wandered off anywhere. How did he know they were there and ok on the other nights.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by sami on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:03 pm

candyfloss wrote:G: Yeah, I mean, I was saying this earlier, that at no point, other than that night, did I go stick my head in. That was the only time, because the door was like that. I mean, I knew how I’d left it.


So according to GM he never went into the bedroom on any of the nights. The children could have wandered off anywhere. How did he know they were there and ok on the other nights.


It is all so odd though. They almost go out of their way to appear more and more neglectful each and every time. What the hell are they going back and forth to the apartment for if not to look at their children ?

I know there is the no neglect = no abduction discussion and I can see the validity in that. But why do they try to appear so neglectful all of the time ?

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Re: The weakest link

Post by aquila on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:46 pm

Things change as we get older. Priorities change and we have time to reflect on our lives. The truth will out. No secret will remain buried concerning Madeleine. I believe that when there is a sigh of relief and a distant memory of finding Madeleine and the media and TM have moved on and aged, a single voice with the truth will emerge and THEN she will finally receive justice. Until then it's a sad state of affairs for her. At some point someone will be the strongest link. That person is the strong one and will throw caution to the wind and cough up the truth. I hope it's soon. No amount of legal/pr/political folk will alter the truth for Madeleine however much they devote their careers to whatever it is they feel justifiable in doing to make a living. Just my humble opinion and my belief.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by ShuBob on Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:48 pm

@aquila wrote:Things change as we get older. Priorities change and we have time to reflect on our lives. The truth will out. No secret will remain buried concerning Madeleine. I believe that when there is a sigh of relief and a distant memory of finding Madeleine and the media and TM have moved on and aged, a single voice with the truth will emerge and THEN she will finally receive justice. Until then it's a sad state of affairs for her. At some point someone will be the strongest link. That person is the strong one and will throw caution to the wind and cough up the truth. I hope it's soon. No amount of legal/pr/political folk will alter the truth for Madeleine however much they devote their careers to whatever it is they feel justifiable in doing to make a living. Just my humble opinion and my belief.

One I share wholeheartedly!
This is the first time in 5 years I've seen a post that reflects my belief in its entirety

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Re: The weakest link

Post by david_uk on Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:08 am

@saltnpepper wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: I suspect it is ROB in this article.
Helped with the timeline.
Absent from tapas table Tues 1st May for the evening. [ He stated in his RI Tues or Wed, JT said absence was Mon or Tues, Kate's diary said clearly Tuesday] Maddie crying episode.
He was absent 3rd May for the crucial pre-abduction period.
He was absent from court.

Have been convinced for months that he and JT allowed Ella to be carried by Gerry .

Im convinced too,the checking (look out) system certainly allowed for a green light to be given for this to happen
Would certainly add another tapas member to the weakest link...the last known person to have entered the apartment before Kate raised the alarm
Lets hope for Madeleines sake that a police force will actually target a weakest link or two

If the Police wanted to solve this, they just need to get that one weak link in for a couple of short interviews and enquiries, gradually point out an error or two in the statements, slowly slowly , catchy monkey..... I wilould start with the Tapas who wanted to change there statements....its could be very easily done..

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Re: The weakest link

Post by russiandoll on Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:50 am

I do not accept MO entered 5a, already shown I hope on another thread that there was not enough internal or external light entering the bedroom for him to see what he claimed from the doorway.
I believe MO had to say he entered the apartment, otherwise if checking from outside by listening, he would no doubt have had to notice the window and shutters open at 9.30. All to fit in with the JT sighting. The JW episode created many problems for the scripted drama and stuff had to be done on the hoof, hence the mess. JMO

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Re: The weakest link

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:10 pm

Danny Collins certainly thinks (and says so in his book) that Oldfield didn't enter the apartment. But he also says that in his first statement Oldfield didn't actually claim to have done so. Collins writes:

"Matthew Oldfield had told police that he merely listened at the rear of the apartment for any sound from the McCann children"

Collins says Oldfield then changed his story six days later in his 2nd statement:

"This time he assured police that he had in fact entered the apartment and looked into the bedroom by the light of the open shutter."

Amazon are still selling his book.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by friedtomatoes on Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:21 pm

@russiandoll wrote: I do not accept MO entered 5a, already shown I hope on another thread that there was not enough internal or external light entering the bedroom for him to see what he claimed from the doorway.
I believe MO had to say he entered the apartment, otherwise if checking from outside by listening, he would no doubt have had to notice the
window and shutters open at 9.30. All to fit in with the JT sighting. The JW episode created many problems for the scripted drama and stuff had to be done on the hoof, hence the mess. JMO

100% agreed and also why gerry changed his first statement that he and kate entered with a key via the front door.

tcat, danny collins cant be right, matt oldfields may 4th statement does mention going inside the apartment, not that i believe he did btw, he may have been confused with matt describing his 9 pm check when he said he listened outside the windows.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by russiandoll on Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:27 pm

the 2nd timeline written out omits the Oldfield check which was on the first.

MO in his 4 May witness statement :

At around 21h25, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children

May 10th MO statement
he took the quickest route between Russell's apartment and the side garden gate entrance to the rear patio of the McCann residence, to which he gained access through the glass sliding door into the apartment lounge. The door was closed but not locked as Kate had said it would be.

where did Danny Collins get the info MO did not claim initially to have entered 5a?

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Re: The weakest link

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:41 pm

@friedtomatoes wrote:100% agreed and also why gerry changed his first statement that he and kate entered with a key via the front door.

tcat, danny collins cant be right, matt oldfields may 4th statement does mention going inside the apartment, not that i believe he did btw, he may have been confused with matt describing his 9 pm check when he said he listened outside the windows.
I know that's what's in the files but Collins mentions Oldfield listening at the patio doors, not at the front window. He says:

"According to his statement, given on 4 May 2007 to Portuguese police, Matthew Oldfield said he took his turn at checking the children at 9.45pm. He entered the rear garden of apartment 5A and climbed the steps to the rear patio of the apartment. There, he put his ear to the left-hand sliding glass panel and frame to listen for any sound within the apartment. He heard nothing and assumed the children inside were sleeping on, undisturbed."

Collins did write his book before the files were made public so maybe he'd never actually seen the statement, but spoken to someone who had and perhaps confusion may have arisen there, but he might also be referring to an informal statement made by Oldfield before the official May 4 one in the files? It might be possible.

No doubt all the friends, and the parents, changed their stories numerous times in those frantic first few hours before they were actually sat at the desks in Portimao and anything was officially recorded.

If Collins is just confusing Oldfield's 9pm check with the 9.30(ish) one, why doesn't Kate mention it in her book to correct what Collins has said? She has attempted to correct just about everything else in the book that disputes their account of that night and the next day - e.g. Mrs Fenn's statement, and Yvonne Martin's - but she never mentions what Collins wrote at all.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by ShuBob on Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:51 pm

Danny Collins' book was written BEFORE the official files were released. One can only guess where he got some of his information from but it's worth noting a percentage of his royalties goes to the McCanns' fund.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:14 pm

I just listened again to a radio interview he did earlier this year and in that he says it was a whole week before they told the police the patio doors were unlocked, which clearly isn't a theory that can be backed up by the statements in the files. So maybe Collins doesn't actually know that much about the case after all. It's interesting though that his book is still on sale (I take your point about the cash, ShuBob) and in it Collins clearly accuses K & G - and their friends - of putting their own reputations and future ahead of Madeleine's fate by not immediately telling the police about the unlocked patio doors and by lying about the shutters. And yet their trigger happy lawyers have taken no action (or none we know about)

I know their formal statements on May 4 say the patio doors were unlocked but they probably didn't tell the police that immediately on the night of May 3 and only realised they had to sometime in the early hours of May 4 when they recognised the police didn't believe the story about the shutters. No jemmied shutters + no unlocked patio doors = the real possibility the abduction claim will be discounted by the British media as quickly as Collins says it was by the Portuguese police.

On the night of May 3/4 they can't have been at all certain the British media would swallow the 'jemmied shutters' story as easily as they did, and if the British didn't believe it then their plan would fall at it's first hurdle. I think there's a possibility Oldfield initially told the police he hadn't gone into the apartment at 9.30 but somewhere around the time they wrote the timelines out on Madeleine's book he was persuaded to change his mind (and also for the reason russiandoll says) and at this point they decided to lie about the patio doors. I don't believe for a moment they left them unlocked.

It was as the Portuguese headline said a badly told story.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by friedtomatoes on Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:24 pm

tcat wrote:
@friedtomatoes wrote:100% agreed and also why gerry changed his first statement that he and kate entered with a key via the front door.

tcat, danny collins cant be right, matt oldfields may 4th statement does mention going inside the apartment, not that i believe he did btw, he may have been confused with matt describing his 9 pm check when he said he listened outside the windows.
I know that's what's in the files but Collins mentions Oldfield listening at the patio doors, not at the front window. He says:

"According to his statement, given on 4 May 2007 to Portuguese police, Matthew Oldfield said he took his turn at checking the children at 9.45pm. He entered the rear garden of apartment 5A and climbed the steps to the rear patio of the apartment. There, he put his ear to the left-hand sliding glass panel and frame to listen for any sound within the apartment. He heard nothing and assumed the children inside were sleeping on, undisturbed."

Collins did write his book before the files were made public so maybe he'd never actually seen the statement, but spoken to someone who had and perhaps confusion may have arisen there, but he might also be referring to an informal statement made by Oldfield before the official May 4 one in the files? It might be possible.

No doubt all the friends, and the parents, changed their stories numerous times in those frantic first few hours before they were actually sat at the desks in Portimao and anything was officially recorded.

If Collins is just confusing Oldfield's 9pm check with the 9.30(ish) one, why doesn't Kate mention it in her book to correct what Collins has said? She has attempted to correct just about everything else in the book that disputes their account of that night and the next day - e.g. Mrs Fenn's statement, and Yvonne Martin's - but she never mentions what Collins wrote at all.

i dont think kate mentioning or not mentioning anything in her book can be taken seriously in any way, her book is a farce IMO so i tend to ignore it as any kind of repository of any truth, its more an embroidering of any truth really just in the same way as all her tv interviews have been an obvious and blatant attempt to embroider the truth, but that is what she is, or thinks she is, good at

re danny collins, i really dont know, and dont much care, i bought his book off amazon and it is clearly very anti pj, just another bandwagonner imo a biased person and nothing there to instill confidence that anything much he wrote was actually true and i dont think his research was robust at all anyway so will be on my ignore list

i dont purport to know what happens in portugal and their police force and leaks and journalistic contacts etc i only know that i am convinced the mccanns and some of their friends have lied and that is good enough for me


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Re: The weakest link

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:42 pm

Yes I definitely agree with you, there's a mass of evidence that everything they've done since May 3 2007 has been in aid of protecting themselves and not 'looking for Madeleine'

I should have written counter not correct in my line about Kate's efforts in her book. I'm definitely not a believer there's much truth in it

But I think Collins went further in his book than anyone ever has in any British newspaper, so it's interesting for that at least.

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Re: The weakest link

Post by listener on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:59 pm

tcat wrote:Yes I definitely agree with you, there's a mass of evidence that everything they've done since May 3 2007 has been in aid of protecting themselves and not 'looking for Madeleine'

Isn't that just the truth of it?

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