Jenny Murat's stall to help find Madeleine

Just been reading stuff and came across this which struck me at the time as being rather a strange thing to do. Is it legal for an unknown person to get information like this? Can anyone just set up a stall and ask for information? What information did she receive I wonder?

Quote from Jenny Murat .........



Last Updated: Friday, 11 May 2007, 15:42 GMT 16:42 UK

Suspicion of authorities

Some local expats are finding other ways to help, though. Jenny Murat, a retired nurse, at lunchtime on Friday set up a roadside stall in the middle of Praia da Luz, decked with posters in Portuguese asking people to come forward with information.

Whereas British residents and visitors will have been quick to contact police, she says, deep-rooted Portuguese suspicion of the authorities inherited from decades of dictatorship that ended only in 1974 - and, in some cases, specific reasons to hide certain things from police - could be stopping some people from supplying what could be useful leads.
"It's such an enormous job to just search, and surely there must be somebody who has information," she said as she set up chairs for friends who had promised to turn up.
"I know lots of people won't talk to police, for example because they're letting out an apartment that isn't registered with the council, but they can talk to an independent person.
"I'll pass everything on to police and if the information turns out to be crucial then they wouldn't mind being contacted by police."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6647479.stm

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I don't suppose the PJ would have been happy about that. I wonder who put Jenny Murat up to it and why she took it upon herself/agreed to do it? Most odd imo. Why would Portuguese people feel happy giving information to JM an expat? Why would an expat be a trusted person? Why would an expat wish to involve herself in a police investigation and go off on a tangent and do her own thing with the possibility of undermining the police of the country in which she resides? Tourists would have no problem going to the police. If as has been suggested the Portuguese locals may have broken a few rules with letting out their houses for holidays without licences then they have their own grapevine in which to deal/overcome that to give information and the police would probably ignore such a misdemeanour in a serious crime. There is something very true in the saying 'blood is thicker than water'. Indigenous people would not imo trust a foreigner/immigrant with their business - especially in the light of all the media attention. I've lived in a Med country.

Weren't the Murat's involved in the property business?

aquila wrote:I don't suppose the PJ would have been happy about that. I wonder who put Jenny Murat up to it and why she took it upon herself/agreed to do it? Most odd imo. Why would Portuguese people feel happy giving information to JM an expat? Why would an expat be a trusted person? Why would an expat wish to involve herself in a police investigation and go off on a tangent and do her own thing with the possibility of undermining the police of the country in which she resides? Tourists would have no problem going to the police. If as has been suggested the Portuguese locals may have broken a few rules with letting out their houses for holidays without licences then they have their own grapevine in which to deal/overcome that to give information and the police would probably ignore such a misdemeanour in a serious crime. There is something very true in the saying 'blood is thicker than water'. Indigenous people would not imo trust a foreigner/immigrant with their business - especially in the light of all the media attention. I've lived in a Med country.

Weren't the Murat's involved in the property business?

Here we go again, someone else who can't wait to tell us in their own words why they are doing something and the reasons for it (another excuse subconsciously told to us).

'because they are letting out an apartment that isn't registered with the council'

the only reason you would set up a stall on a street corner in these circumstances is in the hope of getting some prior knowledge of someone you know being found out for something illegal and you have very kindly just told us what it is! Thanks

Hummingbird wrote:

aquila wrote:I don't suppose the PJ would have been happy about that. I wonder who put Jenny Murat up to it and why she took it upon herself/agreed to do it? Most odd imo. Why would Portuguese people feel happy giving information to JM an expat? Why would an expat be a trusted person? Why would an expat wish to involve herself in a police investigation and go off on a tangent and do her own thing with the possibility of undermining the police of the country in which she resides? Tourists would have no problem going to the police. If as has been suggested the Portuguese locals may have broken a few rules with letting out their houses for holidays without licences then they have their own grapevine in which to deal/overcome that to give information and the police would probably ignore such a misdemeanour in a serious crime. There is something very true in the saying 'blood is thicker than water'. Indigenous people would not imo trust a foreigner/immigrant with their business - especially in the light of all the media attention. I've lived in a Med country.

Weren't the Murat's involved in the property business?

Here we go again, someone else who can't wait to tell us in their own words why they are doing something and the reasons for it (another excuse subconsciously told to us).

'because they are letting out an apartment that isn't registered with the council'

the only reason you would set up a stall on a street corner in these circumstances is in the hope of getting some prior knowledge of someone you know being found out for something illegal and you have very kindly just told us what it is! Thanks

And IMO the only person she would do it for is her son. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that he was involved in some way of course; he might just have been under financial pressure and tempted by the reward money.

From what I understand JM was married to a Portuguese man - correct me if I am wrong. However that doesn't alter the fact that being a 'foreign' widow does not give doyen status. In my experience of a Med country, foreign wives (I am not one) only have the status of their indigenous husband within the community. If the husband is gone (through death or divorce) there is no individual status afforded to the immigrant wife. It's sad but true in my experience. Life for a widow/divorcee may continue peacefully in a Med country as long as she has the means to support herself. It matters not whether the language is spoken fluently or children of the marriage are brought up there; the foreign wife is still somewhat of an outcast when there is no husband around. She is foreign. Add to that the natural tendency to gather expat friends to enjoy one's own language/humour/culture then it is another reason to be an outcast in some way when the 'man' is no longer around.

I'm rambling a bit here but the point I am trying to make is that imo it is most odd for a woman to take the stance that JM did. I imagine that the locals did not live in a gated, well-heeled house so what made her think the locals who were possibly afraid of breeching holiday-let laws were going to confide in her? I could be wrong, I didn't live in Portugal and I may be assuming most Med countries are the same.

Quote from Jenny Murat:

"I know lots of people won't talk to police, for example because they're letting out an apartment that isn't registered with the council, but they can talk to an independent person.
"I'll pass everything on to police and if the information turns out to be crucial then they wouldn't mind being contacted by police."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What Jenny Murat says doesn't make sense. How would she know if any of the information was crucial, would she make that opinion herself or would she expect the Police to advise her that "so and so's" evidence you gave us was crucial. If that person wouldn't mind being contacted by Police, why wouldn't they contact the Police directly in the first place.

I think Jenny Murat had more on her mind than being helpful to the local population, as in the McCanns still printing on their website that any nformation can be handed to them instead of the Police. I'm surprised the police are allowing them to have that on their Board, especially now that the MET are involved.

Newintown wrote:Quote from Jenny Murat:

"I know lots of people won't talk to police, for example because they're letting out an apartment that isn't registered with the council, but they can talk to an independent person.
"I'll pass everything on to police and if the information turns out to be crucial then they wouldn't mind being contacted by police."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What Jenny Murat says doesn't make sense. How would she know if any of the information was crucial, would she make that opinion herself or would she expect the Police to advise her that "so and so's" evidence you gave us was crucial. If that person wouldn't mind being contacted by Police, why wouldn't they contact the Police directly in the first place.

I think Jenny Murat had more on her mind than being helpful to the local population, as in the McCanns still printing on their website that any nformation can be handed to them instead of the Police. I'm surprised the police are allowing them to have that on their Board, especially now that the MET are involved.

Somedays this whole nest of vipers gives me nausea. I can't see why even a 'do-goody' action such as this could have possibly been helpful other than to de-rail to protect personal interests. I can't see it as a normal reaction. As they say 'follow the money' who stood to lose? who stood to lose status/money? Who stood to gain?

aquila wrote:From what I understand JM was married to a Portuguese man - correct me if I am wrong. However that doesn't alter the fact that being a 'foreign' widow does not give doyen status. In my experience of a Med country, foreign wives (I am not one) only have the status of their indigenous husband within the community. If the husband is gone (through death or divorce) there is no individual status afforded to the immigrant wife. It's sad but true in my experience. Life for a widow/divorcee may continue peacefully in a Med country as long as she has the means to support herself. It matters not whether the language is spoken fluently or children of the marriage are brought up there; the foreign wife is still somewhat of an outcast when there is no husband around. She is foreign. Add to that the natural tendency to gather expat friends to enjoy one's own language/humour/culture then it is another reason to be an outcast in some way when the 'man' is no longer around.

I'm rambling a bit here but the point I am trying to make is that imo it is most odd for a woman to take the stance that JM did. I imagine that the locals did not live in a gated, well-heeled house so what made her think the locals who were possibly afraid of breeching holiday-let laws were going to confide in her? I could be wrong, I didn't live in Portugal and I may be assuming most Med countries are the same.

Well, in those continental countries I have visited, although I've never been to Portugal, it's the law that people letting property not only have to declare the use of the property to the authorities but also register the persons staying there with the police, so running an illicit operation would be contravening such regulations for starters. Then there's the little matter of tax evation to go with it, since it would be naive to think that such people would declare illicit income for tax purposes - so more than just a misdemeanor I should have thought. But Mrs Murat's argument falls down badly because if tourists go to the police and happen to be living in accomodation which has not been declared as rental property and thus are not registered with the police as living there the police will find out about the undeclared accomodation anyway. So unless Mrs Murat had a sign on her stall appealing to tourists to impart any knowledge they may have to her and not to the police in case they are living in illegal accomodation, then frankly her whole statement is a load of manure.

Thinking about it more and more it is such a strange thing to do imo. Would anyone here open a stall and ask for information pertinent to an inquiry on a missing person in their own town, especially if you didn't know them at all??? I'm sure the police would stop that tout de suite.

As newintown said, if they didn't mind her giving the information to police, why wouldn't they go to the police in the first place.

candyfloss wrote:Thinking about it more and more it is such a strange thing to do imo. Would anyone here open a stall and ask for information pertinent to an inquiry on a missing person in their own town, especially if you didn't know them at all??? I'm sure the police would stop that tout de suite.

As newintown said, if they didn't mind her giving the information to police, why wouldn't they go to the police in the first place.

I've tried to explain what life is like in a Med country. The rules are not always adhered to. I find MW's creche situation incredible. A large company with little control (or interest for that matter) over procedure imo. The people who have come out of the woodwork such as JM just don't sit right with my experience of living in a Med country. It just ain't right.

Editing to add. JM's actions were at best 'do-goody' but undermined the PJ immediately. They weren't looking for a lost dog and needed the 'puppy photo' on a lamp post from the well-meaning expat community. I'm astounded.