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Read this, it beggars belief

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Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 09.06.12 15:39

http://www.theglaswegian.co.uk/glasgow-news/news/2012/06/06/bulger-killer-play-from-glasgow-writer-des-dillon-set-to-make-big-screen-102692-23887907/

Denise Fergus, the mother of murdered toddler, James Bulger, has, according to the Scottish Daily record, condemned a play written by Des Dilon about one of her sons killers.

Over the years I have seen Denise many times on TV and can only commend her on her dignification, but I am now starting to wonder, has she found a niche market?

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by Guest on 09.06.12 22:39

Mr Z, it may be a bit late in the day for me but I'm not sure what you mean. I've looked up what a niche market is and I'm still none the wiser. Are you saying that Mrs Fergus is complaining about things like this play without valid reason?

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 11.06.12 1:40

Jean wrote:Mr Z, it may be a bit late in the day for me but I'm not sure what you mean. I've looked up what a niche market is and I'm still none the wiser. Are you saying that Mrs Fergus is complaining about things like this play without valid reason?
Jean, I find it impossible to reply without being condescending, but I'm sure you will see the parallels are there to be drawn.
Lets just wait and see if CR or similar become involved, then and only then will you understand what I mean by "niche market"

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by uppatoffee on 11.06.12 7:41

Frank, I understand what you are saying about the niche market, but nowhere in the article does it mention about Denise Fergus. The complaint about the play appears to have come from someone who thought the Thompson character was based on him.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by tigger on 11.06.12 7:48

@frank zappa wrote:
Jean wrote:Mr Z, it may be a bit late in the day for me but I'm not sure what you mean. I've looked up what a niche market is and I'm still none the wiser. Are you saying that Mrs Fergus is complaining about things like this play without valid reason?
Jean, I find it impossible to reply without being condescending, but I'm sure you will see the parallels are there to be drawn.
Lets just wait and see if CR or similar become involved, then and only then will you understand what I mean by "niche market"

So you mean that any hack looking for free publicity who bases any of his characters on the McCanns or the plot of e.g. a book on the affair would be sued by TM /CR?
I doubt very much is this is possible. If names and locations are changed and the usual disclaimer of most fiction books is used, there would be no case to answer?


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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 11.06.12 22:23

@uppatoffee wrote:Frank, I understand what you are saying about the niche market, but nowhere in the article does it mention about Denise Fergus. The complaint about the play appears to have come from someone who thought the Thompson character was based on him.
Read my original post again, two articles of info, both by the same news group, but both giving the view of either side, strange I think.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by tigger on 12.06.12 14:01

@frank zappa wrote:
@uppatoffee wrote:Frank, I understand what you are saying about the niche market, but nowhere in the article does it mention about Denise Fergus. The complaint about the play appears to have come from someone who thought the Thompson character was based on him.
Read my original post again, two articles of info, both by the same news group, but both giving the view of either side, strange I think.

I've read your original post several times, but can find only ONE article in the link. So where is the other article of info giving the opposite view?

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 12.06.12 20:25

@tigger wrote:
@frank zappa wrote:
@uppatoffee wrote:Frank, I understand what you are saying about the niche market, but nowhere in the article does it mention about Denise Fergus. The complaint about the play appears to have come from someone who thought the Thompson character was based on him.
Read my original post again, two articles of info, both by the same news group, but both giving the view of either side, strange I think.

I've read your original post several times, but can find only ONE article in the link. So where is the other article of info giving the opposite view?

One in the Scottish daily record and the other in the Liverpool echo.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by uppatoffee on 12.06.12 20:33

Can you supply the link for the Liverpool echo as this is missing from your post.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 13.06.12 13:25

@uppatoffee wrote:Can you supply the link for the Liverpool echo as this is missing from your post.

Here is another link but similar.

http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/national-news/1216366-play-based-on-bulger-killer-%5Cscraping-bottom-of-barrel%5C,-says-james%5C-mother.html

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by littlepixie on 15.06.12 21:10

I think the Play is just stirring and I'm not surprised Mrs Fergus condemned it. Thompson DOES live among people that is a fact. If he lives in my village there is nothing I can do about it. I just pray he keeps his hands to himself and has repented for what he did. I don't think his name should be given any publicity in any way nor should stories be written about him.
He will face his maker one day and I leave it to him.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 16.06.12 10:11

I give up. Too many deadheads on this site.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by russiandoll on 16.06.12 10:27

Mr Zappa I am just about to read your link to the 2nd newspaper. If you get frustrated why not be less cryptic, most are rather incisive in here I find but we do have lives off the forum which might make us fatigued and maybe not up to deciphering cryptic clues or maybe even not in the mood for them, if we want cryptic we can do a cryptic crossword. You are very insulting !

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by Guest on 16.06.12 10:47

@frank zappa wrote:I give up. Too many deadheads on this site.

Not very nice was it

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by Ribisl on 16.06.12 15:28

@frank zappa wrote:I give up. Too many deadheads on this site.
I think I see where you are coming from and I too felt uncomfortable reading some of the quotes from Denise Fergus.
"This play is scraping the botton of the barrel. It's nothing more than a cheap and nasty attempt to cash-in on the murder of my son.

"I've no idea what's in the script and I don't want to know because it's clearly using the memory of James as an excuse for trying to sell theatre tickets.

"I would like to see people treat this with the contempt it deserves by boycotting it.

"James's memory should not be exploited like this. He was my son, a real person, a precious little boy who was cruelly abducted and murdered just weeks before his third birthday.

"Every time James' murder is brought-up like this it rubs salt in the wounds for me and my family.

"The person who wrote this play must have no respect. What happened to James, and his memory, should not be regarded as public property, to be used for entertainment.

"To be shouting about how good this play is and touting it to Hollywood before the ink is dry on the script demonstrates the true motives of those involved in promoting it.

"This man is just trying to line is pockets and he does not care what harm he does or what hurt he inflicts. It's sickening."
http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/national-news/1216366-play-based-on-bulger-killer-%5Cscraping-bottom-of-barrel%5C,-says-james%5C-mother.html

Obviously, I cannot discuss the merit of the play without seeing it, but the case marked a social phenomenon because of the age of the killers and by the unparallelled nature of their acts. As such, the perpetrators pose a great interest to those wishing to understand better and debate the wrongs of our society. And whether such killers should be given an unprecedented degree of care and protection by the state is another pertinent issue. I therefore believe Des Dillon had every right to write this play.

Very understandably, they can ever be nothing but evil monsters to the mother of the victim. And the fact they have been granted new identities in order to learn to live in the society that had clearly failed them would never be acceptable to those who had decided long ago that these men are beyond redemption.

We all condemn their acts and are appalled by it. And I for one would be extremely uneasy knowing such a person has been introduced anonymously into my immediate neighbourhood mainly because I know how rare the prison experience can effectively reform a truly damaged individual. However, they were at the time also children themselves who had probably suffered at the hands of some adults to behave the way they did. Even if Thompson had been one of those children that show psychopathic tendencies from a very early age without significant adult influences, I believe they can be helped greatly by the right kind of programmes and treatments specifically geared to their condition. So we really don't know how successful his time in prison has been and how well adjusted he is now to be able to rejoin the society without posing any threat. But the professionals handling the case have evidently decided that he is fit to be released. That being the case, I would feel it unfair not to grant him a second chance even if it posed a certain risk to the society.

Getting back to the topic, it would have been much more dignified, in my view, if Denise Fergus had kept her distance from this play and kept her views to herself instead of speaking out to the media about her personal grief and anger. But I don't believe it was some kind of marketing ploy if that's what you are alluding to. And there is no need to be rude.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 17.06.12 1:09

@Ribisl wrote:
@frank zappa wrote:I give up. Too many deadheads on this site.
I think I see where you are coming from and I too felt uncomfortable reading some of the quotes from Denise Fergus.
"This play is scraping the botton of the barrel. It's nothing more than a cheap and nasty attempt to cash-in on the murder of my son.

"I've no idea what's in the script and I don't want to know because it's clearly using the memory of James as an excuse for trying to sell theatre tickets.

"I would like to see people treat this with the contempt it deserves by boycotting it.

"James's memory should not be exploited like this. He was my son, a real person, a precious little boy who was cruelly abducted and murdered just weeks before his third birthday.

"Every time James' murder is brought-up like this it rubs salt in the wounds for me and my family.

"The person who wrote this play must have no respect. What happened to James, and his memory, should not be regarded as public property, to be used for entertainment.

"To be shouting about how good this play is and touting it to Hollywood before the ink is dry on the script demonstrates the true motives of those involved in promoting it.

"This man is just trying to line is pockets and he does not care what harm he does or what hurt he inflicts. It's sickening."
http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/national-news/1216366-play-based-on-bulger-killer-%5Cscraping-bottom-of-barrel%5C,-says-james%5C-mother.html

Obviously, I cannot discuss the merit of the play without seeing it, but the case marked a social phenomenon because of the age of the killers and by the unparallelled nature of their acts. As such, the perpetrators pose a great interest to those wishing to understand better and debate the wrongs of our society. And whether such killers should be given an unprecedented degree of care and protection by the state is another pertinent issue. I therefore believe Des Dillon had every right to write this play.

Very understandably, they can ever be nothing but evil monsters to the mother of the victim. And the fact they have been granted new identities in order to learn to live in the society that had clearly failed them would never be acceptable to those who had decided long ago that these men are beyond redemption.

We all condemn their acts and are appalled by it. And I for one would be extremely uneasy knowing such a person has been introduced anonymously into my immediate neighbourhood mainly because I know how rare the prison experience can effectively reform a truly damaged individual. However, they were at the time also children themselves who had probably suffered at the hands of some adults to behave the way they did. Even if Thompson had been one of those children that show psychopathic tendencies from a very early age without significant adult influences, I believe they can be helped greatly by the right kind of programmes and treatments specifically geared to their condition. So we really don't know how successful his time in prison has been and how well adjusted he is now to be able to rejoin the society without posing any threat. But the professionals handling the case have evidently decided that he is fit to be released. That being the case, I would feel it unfair not to grant him a second chance even if it posed a certain risk to the society.

Getting back to the topic, it would have been much more dignified, in my view, if Denise Fergus had kept her distance from this play and kept her views to herself instead of speaking out to the media about her personal grief and anger. But I don't believe it was some kind of marketing ploy if that's what you are alluding to. And there is no need to be rude.

Never begin a sentence with "and" deadhead.
I can be as rude or insulting as I please, as can we all. Therein lies the freedom of speech.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by frank zappa on 17.06.12 1:15

[quote="russiandoll"] Mr Zappa I am just about to read your link to the 2nd newspaper. If you get frustrated why not be less cryptic, most are rather incisive in here I find but we do have lives off the forum which might make us fatigued and maybe not up to deciphering cryptic clues or maybe even not in the mood for them, if we want cryptic we can do a cryptic crossword. You are very insulting ![/quote

I rather think its your lack of brain cells that makes the post seem cryptic. Deadhead.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by tigger on 17.06.12 6:30

As far as I can see, this is about an average hack who's used the Bulger story to make some money.

He is such an original thinker that he has to base it on an old film, he seems to desperately trying for publicity and I don't believe the film rights or the Hollywood blockbuster claims for one minute.
The play hasn't been reviewed yet and of course the standard condemnations are trotted out.

It's very likely that this sort of thing will eventually happen with the Maddie 'abduction'.
So what's new? The words 'boring' and 'bandwagon' come to mind. Whoever is going to try to profit from the Madeleine story and however much it will be in bad taste, it'll be hard to top the bad taste so far exhibited by the people directly concerned.

Please don't call anyone 'deadhead' - it implies that you are far above us all in intelligence. If that is the case, you'd be able to explain what you meant.



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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by Guest on 17.06.12 8:58

Real-life events are often used as inspiration for fictional stories and I don't see any harm in that - an episode of one of my favourite series Law & Order referred to a child taken from a hotel room while the parents dined downstairs!! - but I can't blame James's mother for not agreeing.

I feel that if anyone is rude and insulting under the guise of freedom of speech, it debases their case and reduces them to the level of the pro sites like JATYK2.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by Guest on 17.06.12 9:49

@frank zappa wrote:
@Ribisl wrote:
@frank zappa wrote:I give up. Too many deadheads on this site.
I think I see where you are coming from and I too felt uncomfortable reading some of the quotes from Denise Fergus.
"This play is scraping the botton of the barrel. It's nothing more than a cheap and nasty attempt to cash-in on the murder of my son.

"I've no idea what's in the script and I don't want to know because it's clearly using the memory of James as an excuse for trying to sell theatre tickets.

"I would like to see people treat this with the contempt it deserves by boycotting it.

"James's memory should not be exploited like this. He was my son, a real person, a precious little boy who was cruelly abducted and murdered just weeks before his third birthday.

"Every time James' murder is brought-up like this it rubs salt in the wounds for me and my family.

"The person who wrote this play must have no respect. What happened to James, and his memory, should not be regarded as public property, to be used for entertainment.

"To be shouting about how good this play is and touting it to Hollywood before the ink is dry on the script demonstrates the true motives of those involved in promoting it.

"This man is just trying to line is pockets and he does not care what harm he does or what hurt he inflicts. It's sickening."
http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/national-news/1216366-play-based-on-bulger-killer-%5Cscraping-bottom-of-barrel%5C,-says-james%5C-mother.html

Obviously, I cannot discuss the merit of the play without seeing it, but the case marked a social phenomenon because of the age of the killers and by the unparallelled nature of their acts. As such, the perpetrators pose a great interest to those wishing to understand better and debate the wrongs of our society. And whether such killers should be given an unprecedented degree of care and protection by the state is another pertinent issue. I therefore believe Des Dillon had every right to write this play.

Very understandably, they can ever be nothing but evil monsters to the mother of the victim. And the fact they have been granted new identities in order to learn to live in the society that had clearly failed them would never be acceptable to those who had decided long ago that these men are beyond redemption.

We all condemn their acts and are appalled by it. And I for one would be extremely uneasy knowing such a person has been introduced anonymously into my immediate neighbourhood mainly because I know how rare the prison experience can effectively reform a truly damaged individual. However, they were at the time also children themselves who had probably suffered at the hands of some adults to behave the way they did. Even if Thompson had been one of those children that show psychopathic tendencies from a very early age without significant adult influences, I believe they can be helped greatly by the right kind of programmes and treatments specifically geared to their condition. So we really don't know how successful his time in prison has been and how well adjusted he is now to be able to rejoin the society without posing any threat. But the professionals handling the case have evidently decided that he is fit to be released. That being the case, I would feel it unfair not to grant him a second chance even if it posed a certain risk to the society.

Getting back to the topic, it would have been much more dignified, in my view, if Denise Fergus had kept her distance from this play and kept her views to herself instead of speaking out to the media about her personal grief and anger. But I don't believe it was some kind of marketing ploy if that's what you are alluding to. And there is no need to be rude.

Never begin a sentence with "and" deadhead.
I can be as rude or insulting as I please, as can we all. Therein lies the freedom of speech.

Not on this forum you can't

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by russiandoll on 17.06.12 10:09

thanks Candyfloss I hope that person has been banned. I understood what was being suggested when eventually the 2nd link appeared. I refuse to act as if I am sitting an exam here.....posting the words an original poster did not type, to show I have understood what he/she was getting at.
That person needed to be careful who he/she was calling thick, should have ref to Denise Fergus' dignity not "can only commend her on her dignification."...unless it was meant that someone bestowed dignity on her.
Anyway thats that and lets hope FZ has gone for good !

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by Guest on 17.06.12 10:13

@russiandoll wrote: thanks Candyfloss I hope that person has been banned. I understood what was being suggested when eventually the 2nd link appeared. I refuse to act as if I am sitting an exam here.....posting the words an original poster did not type, to show I have understood what he/she was getting at.
That person needed to be careful who he/she was calling thick, should have ref to Denise Fergus' dignity not "can only commend her on her dignification."...unless it was meant that someone bestowed dignity on her.
Anyway thats that and lets hope FZ has gone for good !

Yes, they have been banned, something I don't like to do and is a last resort, but coming back again and having another go at members after my warning gave me no choice. There was absolutely no need for that sort of insulting language.

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Re: Read this, it beggars belief

Post by uppatoffee on 17.06.12 12:14

Perhaps if he had posted the second link to start with it might have made it easier for us to understand the point he was trying to make, rather than just being insulting when we asked what he was talking about!

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