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American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by mira2 on 26.06.12 1:35

Châtelaine Yesterday at 11:22 pm





mira2 wrote:[...].
By the way 10pm evening of May 3, Kate was running of to the Tapas bar leaving the twins home alone and such, and Gerry was busy on the phone.
Anyone remember who Gerry called after 10pm that evening and the significance of that call?
***
"Gerry was busy on the phone". Do you have a link to that
_________
Chatelaine,
I do not keep links in this case, I am a hit and miss affair.
For me the mystery of Madeleine Mc Cann involves nothing other than the movements of the Tapas Group evening of May 3, for some reason they are reluctant to cooperate fully with the investigation, they prefer to hide behind expensive extradition lawyers, and threathen anyone who dare make accusations against them, at the expense of others of course and with much help from some corrupt media outlets and greedy PR agents.

I do not know if you are new to this case, but I have always found it surprising that noone regardless what side of the fense they are on wants to pick up on Gerrys first call of the evening.
In fact give Jill her due it was from this site that I first picked up on this. For me it is of major importance, and logic tells me that when you remove the PR spin you are left with the facts.

I cant remember where this information is archived .........Gerry made a call on evening of May 3, first call after 10pm to an old Uni mate who just so happened to be New labours mover and shaker at the time. Perhaps someone on here who keeps logs can point you in the right direction.

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by mira2 on 26.06.12 2:13

jd Today at 1:08 am




In any case why is Madeleine McCann a ward of court?


To me, this is one of the most perplexing questions. No parents would give up legal custody of their missing child, even worse they made the application after just a mere 12 days after Maddie disappeared. And made the application when they launched the Fund. If Maddie was ever found she could not go back to her parents as the courts have legal custody of her. Why on earth is Maddie a Ward of Court, she is missing and I cannot see a single valid reason for this
_________
jd, I am with you, no parent faced with the horror of having their child stolen would take steps to invoke a court order effectively distancing themselves from said child, it makes no logical sence. And then you have the same parents attempting to derail the police investigation by hiring extradition lawyers, and making statements to the media that they are okies with the fact that their fellow Tapas party Group, i.e. group of males who were supposedly sent to check on the 3 under 4 year olds left alone doors ajar are beyond suspician. Hmmmmmmm
jd, I get so frustrated with this case not because of the McCanns but because of the corruption that is our politicians, and the fact that they are above the law. It is wrong, and no way are we in the UK a Democracy, we are a sick society, it started with Thatcher, it should have ended there, the problem was Murdoch remained after Thatcher and Blair was his puppet. the rest is history and a history we should all be ashamed of. In a just society the likes of Blair and Murdoch would have long time ago been arrested for war crimes. It pains me that the UK today is so defunct and so downtrodden and its people are so selfish and so into themselves that they cannot, and will not, lift a finger to speak out about injustices that will affect generations to come.

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by aiyoyo on 26.06.12 3:16

@Ribisl wrote:
@friedtomatoes wrote:
tcat wrote:I don't think that's what he means at all. He makes a lot more sense in the 3rd video than he did on Panorama (but perhaps the Panorama clips were sloppily edited or hastily produced) - he says they have completely open minds about the case, are still collating all the evidence and therefore in no position to rule out either of the possibilities that Madeleine is alive or dead. In case she is still alive we have produced the age progressed picture and if she is still alive it's most likely she was actually abducted by a stranger, he says, but nowhere in these videos (or on Panorama I think) does he say we've reached or are reaching the conclusion that she was abducted - he's just saying while we're still gathering and examining all of the evidence we have to be open minded to all possibilities.

I think we have to be fair to Mr Redwood, I'm sure he's well aware you know who will begin spinning furiously if he's not very careful with his words.

Maybe he shouldn't have done all these interviews (maybe he didn't want to do them, but was told to? Who knows)

his position is clear listen here at 2 30 HE believes she is still alive and a stranger took her and goes on to talk about other cases where children are found years later
what about the cadaver dog andy??????????
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4781-dci-redwood-on-daybreak-video-added
Dan Lobb:

Do you believe she is still alive?

Redwood:

Yes I do.
Yes, he makes his opinion absolutely clear in that interview. I am surprised he has taken that stance and don't understand what has led him to that opinion, but evidently that's what he believes. If his aim was simply to keep the MCs guessing, then I don't think they would have spent their resources producing that age progression picture.

Yes, he does come across as having said it with a certainty, or a high degree of conviction (to himself at least) that he believes Maddie is alive.

Yes, the age enhancement image is done for that purpose, else it just defeats the cost and time to get that done. So I, too, wonder what evidence within the files convinced him of that? That bit of evidence must be overwhelmingly strong for him to take the stance, exactly what that is I would certainly be interested to know, and why is he not handing thisover to the PJ if he has that crucial bit of info that indicates Maddie is alive.

I find it hard to swallow that he's playing the blinder there, more like he's talking out of his arse when he said with conviction Maddie is alive when he didnt indicate what evidence supports his firm belief.


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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by sami on 26.06.12 6:28

@jd wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@sami wrote: [...]
Was there a court decision though to with hold the files from the McCanns ? This being the case, would this not take precedence over any normal procedures or rights in a case review ? Hopefully somebody here can answer.
***
If memory serves me, this was Leicester LE files, which they didn't get. They only got [copies of] their own files back.


Madeleine McCann: parents' court bid for information Telegraph

By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter
Last Updated: 7:26PM BST 20/06/2008

Kate and Gerry McCann are to ask a High Court judge to order the release of police documents which they hope will kick-start the search for their missing daughter Madeleine, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

The McCanns hope their application to Mrs Justice Hogg will result in Leicestershire Police opening their files on scores of reported sightings of Madeleine, most of which have been passed on to them by police in Portugal, where the four-year-old disappeared in May last year.

Until now police in Leicestershire, the McCanns' home county, have refused the couple's requests for information about sightings, saying they are bound by the terms of an agreement with Portuguese police. unquote

AND

Documents handed over to the McCanns without informing the Attorney General Diário de Notícias

FILIPA AMBRÓSIO DE SOUSA
8th July 2008
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation

Investigation. The British police released 81 documents from the investigation into the Maddie case to the McCann family due to a decision from the High Court in London. A fact that was not made known to the Portuguese PJ or to the Republic's Attorney General, Pinto Monteiro. unquote


Thank you Tigger, this is what I was looking for. They are trying to get access to the undisclosed files in order to find out what the PJ have on them, remember it is not true the abduction, so they are thinking on what the PJ have that could be a serious exposure on them. In 2008 they went under the guise using "Reported sightings" (like now) and " they hope will kick-start the search for their missing daughter Madeleine"...the mccanns know there isn't a real search and the mccanns know there was never an abduction so all they are interested in is keeping the cover up & making sure the PJ don't get near to the truth. The withheld files are worrying them and they are dying to get their hands on them

Also, Lord Justice Hogg is the legal guardian of Maddie. I am sure whatever files he has, the mccanns have the right to see it

The British police released 81 documents from the investigation into the Maddie case to the McCann family due to a decision from the High Court in London. A fact that was not made known to the Portuguese PJ or to the Republic's Attorney General, Pinto Monteiro.
....This is very interesting



Tigger, thank you very much.

JD, looks like you are right.

The ward of court issue is one of the less well publicised and strangest issues in this story. A child abducted, then you sign her over to the courts, for me it would feel like giving her away, loosing her a second time. This action back fired though as regard the libel cases, am I correct ? They cannot join Madeleine in their libel actions. Bit of a muck up there by McCann and Healy, very unlike them. Badly thought out, hasty decision at the time or a necessary course of action ?

If there is a thread here on the WOC could somebody point me in the direction please ?

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by bobbin on 26.06.12 7:47

@sami wrote:
@jd wrote:
@tigger wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@sami wrote: [...]
Was there a court decision though to with hold the files from the McCanns ? This being the case, would this not take precedence over any normal procedures or rights in a case review ? Hopefully somebody here can answer.
***
If memory serves me, this was Leicester LE files, which they didn't get. They only got [copies of] their own files back.


Madeleine McCann: parents' court bid for information Telegraph

By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter
Last Updated: 7:26PM BST 20/06/2008

Kate and Gerry McCann are to ask a High Court judge to order the release of police documents which they hope will kick-start the search for their missing daughter Madeleine, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

The McCanns hope their application to Mrs Justice Hogg will result in Leicestershire Police opening their files on scores of reported sightings of Madeleine, most of which have been passed on to them by police in Portugal, where the four-year-old disappeared in May last year.

Until now police in Leicestershire, the McCanns' home county, have refused the couple's requests for information about sightings, saying they are bound by the terms of an agreement with Portuguese police. unquote

AND

Documents handed over to the McCanns without informing the Attorney General Diário de Notícias

FILIPA AMBRÓSIO DE SOUSA
8th July 2008
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation

Investigation. The British police released 81 documents from the investigation into the Maddie case to the McCann family due to a decision from the High Court in London. A fact that was not made known to the Portuguese PJ or to the Republic's Attorney General, Pinto Monteiro. unquote


Thank you Tigger, this is what I was looking for. They are trying to get access to the undisclosed files in order to find out what the PJ have on them, remember it is not true the abduction, so they are thinking on what the PJ have that could be a serious exposure on them. In 2008 they went under the guise using "Reported sightings" (like now) and " they hope will kick-start the search for their missing daughter Madeleine"...the mccanns know there isn't a real search and the mccanns know there was never an abduction so all they are interested in is keeping the cover up & making sure the PJ don't get near to the truth. The withheld files are worrying them and they are dying to get their hands on them

Also, Lord Justice Hogg is the legal guardian of Maddie. I am sure whatever files he has, the mccanns have the right to see it

The British police released 81 documents from the investigation into the Maddie case to the McCann family due to a decision from the High Court in London. A fact that was not made known to the Portuguese PJ or to the Republic's Attorney General, Pinto Monteiro.
....This is very interesting



Tigger, thank you very much.

JD, looks like you are right.

The ward of court issue is one of the less well publicised and strangest issues in this story. A child abducted, then you sign her over to the courts, for me it would feel like giving her away, loosing her a second time. This action back fired though as regard the libel cases, am I correct ? They cannot join Madeleine in their libel actions. Bit of a muck up there by McCann and Healy, very unlike them. Badly thought out, hasty decision at the time or a necessary course of action ?

If there is a thread here on the WOC could somebody point me in the direction please ?

This is a rather rushed thought.
Would this WOC situation have an impact on Tony Bennett's forthcoming court hearings.
Is Madeleine included in the claims made by the McCanns against Tony.

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by sami on 26.06.12 8:43

Bobbin, as I understand it, it merely means they cannot sue for damages, libel etc., on Madeleine's behalf. They can continue to do so on their own behalf, Madeleine cannot be joined as a party by them.
Obviously, there are many better educated people than I on this site who will clarify what exactly the situation is.

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by tigger on 26.06.12 8:49

@sami wrote:Bobbin, as I understand it, it merely means they cannot sue for damages, libel etc., on Madeleine's behalf. They can continue to do so on their own behalf, Madeleine cannot be joined as a party by them.
Obviously, there are many better educated people than I on this site who will clarify what exactly the situation is.

I think it was the IFLG (see PACT and IFLG topic) who advised them to make Maddie WOC. This didn't take effect until the following year although the application was made fairly soon after 3/5.
My idea is that it also gave some substance to their 'belief' that Maddie was alive - it may have been one of the reasons. I don't know what the WOC status of one of your children entails for your other children.
I seem to remember reading a long time ago that they took the children on holiday to Canada in 2008 because it was the last time they could take the twins abroad. No idea where I got that so don't read it as gospel.
But it seems reasonable in terms of law I expect.

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by jd on 26.06.12 11:22

The ward of court issue is one of the less well publicised and strangest issues in this story. A child abducted, then you sign her over to the courts, for me it would feel like giving her away, loosing her a second time. This action back fired though as regard the libel cases, am I correct ? They cannot join Madeleine in their libel actions. Bit of a muck up there by McCann and Healy, very unlike them. Badly thought out, hasty decision at the time or a necessary course of action ?

If there is a thread here on the WOC could somebody point me in the direction please ?

There is a topic here Sami.....
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3730-ward-of-court?highlight=ward+of+court

I could not agree more that this WOC is one of the most strangest issues in this scam. The mccanns have just had their daughter stolen, we are told how utterly distraught and broken they are (allegedly without proof of it) and what do they do...Give her up to the courts and within a few days. Suddenly within a few days they have lost their daughter and have chosen to have no legal custody of her, not to mention the emotional grief. Something does not add up at all here, it is totally wrong and a huge red flag

Tigger, I remember reading that they took the children on holiday to Canada in 2008 because it was the last time they could take the twins abroad, don't know where this was but I do recall this too

Mira2, I am totally with you that they were there on holiday on business and the private NHS funding is what I am leaning towards too. It does make sense and fits in with everything very well, especially the New Labour angle like a glove on a hand

Would this WOC situation have an impact on Tony Bennett's forthcoming court hearings. Is Madeleine included in the claims made by the McCanns against Tony.
Very good question Bobbin. I wonder if there is some legal 'loophole' that if Maddie is not under the mccanns legal guardianship, can they actually make any claims on her behalf in law. I wonder if its possible that it can only be Justice Hogg and not the maccanns. I think this would be worth investigating if there is some loophole with the WOC status that restricts the mccanns from making any claims on her behalf. When you think about it, how can they make any sort of claim when they do not have legal custody, in effect & in law Maddie being a WOC is not their responsibility but Justice Hogg. They have given her up

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by sami on 26.06.12 11:36

Thank you for the link, JD.

So the WOC status may make it similar to say, me, taking action against Amaral. I have no status as far as Madeleine's rights are concerned, technically neither do the McCanns. I guess it will be down to how the case is worded and the basis on which they are taking the action. Interesting .

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by Newintown on 26.06.12 20:19

@jd wrote:
In any case why is Madeleine McCann a ward of court?

To me, this is one of the most perplexing questions. No parents would give up legal custody of their missing child, even worse they made the application after just a mere 12 days after Maddie disappeared. And made the application when they launched the Fund. If Maddie was ever found she could not go back to her parents as the courts have legal custody of her. Why on earth is Maddie a Ward of Court, she is missing and I cannot see a single valid reason for this

Does anyone know for sure that the McCanns asked for Madeleine to be made a Ward of Court. I would think that it was more likely the Police, a child protection agency or Social Services would have requested it. We know how the McCanns love to spin things in their own favour that "they requested Social Services to visit them upon their return to the UK". In real terms I doubt they had much choice, Social Services would have been on their doorstep whether they liked it or not, seeing that they neglected three tiny children night after night in a foreign country at their own admission (well, that's what they say). I doubt Social Services could have ignored the circumstances of Madeleine's "disappearance" and they would have to monitor the welfare of the remaining two children and probably still do, there again, the McCanns wouldn't advise anyone if it is still ongoing.

The fact that Madeleine was made a Ward of Court would probably mean that if she was ever found she would not be automatically returned to the McCanns but would "belong to the Courts" and would have to be assessed as to whether she was being returned to a stable family environment and to what her future may hold, depending on what state of mind she is found in or what special physical/physiological needs she would require. For a 3 to 4 year old to be missing from her family for 5 years, she just wouldn't be able to be given back as if nothing had happened and the family can just carry on as they were before 3rd May 2007. The adjustment for her would be horrendous. She would need long term care and assessment.

Not that I believe that would ever come about, but I suppose every avenue has to be covered in law "just in case".

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by jd on 27.06.12 0:09

I ask the question.....How many 'missing' children in the world have been made a Ward of Court? I only know of one

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by mira2 on 07.07.12 4:07

Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments
jd on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:09 am




I ask the question.....How many 'missing' children in the world have been made a Ward of Court? I only know of one
___________
jd,
'Missing' is the key word here. In Madeleine's case I can see no justification since to all intents and purposes this child was in the care of her parents and they are still together it is only Madeleine that is missing and furthermore she was not missing in the UK, so how the heck could she be made a ward of court here, since she disappeared abroad. We are led to believe that Gerry and Kate Mc Cann took their 3 year old abroad went out for the night and left her home alone with her 18 month old siblings doors ajar and some bad man wandered in and carted her off and to make things better they made an application to the British courts to have Madeleine made a Ward of Court. So, in effect not only did they commit a serious crime abroad of leaving 3 minors under 4 years old home alone with doors ajar whilst they went out on the razzle, and one of them had dissapeared by the time they got home, they took steps to hand over all responsibilty for this child to the UK courts, then used the wording of Judge Hoggs order, they to bullied Leicester police to hand over to them confidential information relating to the case. This only came to light when the Leistershire police refused to hand over confidential files and took their case to court. As a result of their action Justice Jogg duly ammended her initial order to state that the order did not apply to her majesty's police force.
My feeling is that by then the damage was already done. Clarence has boasted in a TV interview that he had information direct from the cops.
We have also had Clarence on TV pleading for donations and teeling viewers that they can send cash in envelopes direct to Rothay. This is the man who supposedly was beng paid around 70 thousand pounds a year from public donations intended to find Madeleine. SICK
The ward of court issue I can only imagine is again at taxpayers expense, what is intriguing is that it has not prevented Gerry and Kate McCann cashing in on their daughters demise, if Madeleine is indeed a ward of court why has the court not stepped in to protect her name and taken action to stop Gerry and Kate Mc Cann using their daughters name in their litigation actions?
We need answers, something is not quite right here in old blighty.

Well we all know how that tale ended, Clarence was wheeled out to tell us the good news that Gerry and Kate were allowed access to a few files, and they were happy bunnies ( I want to scream)

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by Olympicana_Reloaded on 12.07.12 1:45

Guidance on the Management, Recording and Investigation of Missing Persons, 2nd Ed 2010

Produced on behalf of the Association of Chief Police Officers
by the National Policing Improvement Agency

5.4.1 Homicide

One of the fundamental facts to be determined in a missing person investigation is the reason why the subject has disappeared. In cases where the circumstances are suspicious or are unexplained, use
the maxim:

IF IN DOUBT, THINK MURDER

Failure to apply such thinking in past cases has led to the loss of valuable investigative opportunities. This can ultimately result in failure to trace the missing person or to establish sufficient evidence to convict a perpetrator.

The status of the relationship between the missing person and the person making the initial report can also be important. Investigators should not always assume that such relationships are stable. There have been numerous cases where the person reporting the crime and/or the missing persons has been found to be the perpetrator of the crime.

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Re: American Videos of Review of Madeleine Case and Andy Redwood comments

Post by Olympicana_Reloaded on 11.08.12 19:52

Mark Williams-Thomas ‏@mwilliamsthomas

@Ja5eTee ACPO manual missing children - treat as critical incident until evidence suggest otherwise .

1:02 AM - 11 Aug 12 via Twitter for iPhone · Details

ACPO (2010) Guidance on the Management, Recording and Investigation of Missing Persons

http://www.npia.police.uk/en/17187.htm

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