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The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

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The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.06.12 8:28

Just 11 days ago (22 May), the media reported that German bonds were offering ZERO interest:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/22/uk-bonds-germany-schatz-idUKBRE84L0NA20120522

Yesterday, it was reported that German bonds were paying up to MINUS ONE PER CENT interest on certain government bonds, including 'The Schatz'.

Spanish people are buying German, U.K. and U.S. bonds at the rate of £2 billion a day - money flowing out of Spain and heading elsewhere...anywhere!

This means e.g. that if you buy a German bond now for, say, 10,000 euros, when you redeem it, you may only get 9,900 euros back.

As the Daily Mail economics editor put it yesterday, people used to seek a return on their investment.

Now they are simply hoping and praying to get at least some of their money returned.

As we celebrate the Queen's Diamond Jubilee today, the Spanish economy, and with it the European economy, seems to be about to fall right over the cliff edge:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120601-707839.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9307106/Spain-is-in-total-emergency-the-EU-in-total-denial.html

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Re: The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by aquila on 03.06.12 8:36

@Tony Bennett wrote:Just 11 days ago (22 May), the media reported that German bonds were offering ZERO interest:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/22/uk-bonds-germany-schatz-idUKBRE84L0NA20120522

Yesterday, it was reported that German bonds were paying MINUS ONE PER CENT interest.

Spanish people are buying German, U.K. and U.S. bonds at the rate of £2 billion a day - money flowing out of Spain and heading elsewhere...anywhere!

This means e.g. that if you buy a German bond now for, say, 10,000 euros, when you redeem it, you will only get 9,900 euros back.

As the Daily Mail economics editor put it yesterday, people used to seek a return on their investment.

Now they are simply hoping and praying to get at least some of their money returned.

As we celebrate the Queen's Diamond Jubilee today, the Spanish economy, and with it the European economy, seems to be about to fall right over the cliff edge.

It's already fallen off the cliff edge. The EU are busy excavating to delay it hitting the ground.

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Re: The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.06.12 8:41

@aquila wrote:[The Spanish economy] has already fallen off the cliff edge. The EU are busy excavating to delay it hitting the ground.
Probably the EU's excavators will get buried under the rubble into the bargain.

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Re: The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by aquila on 03.06.12 8:52

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@aquila wrote:[The Spanish economy] has already fallen off the cliff edge. The EU are busy excavating to delay it hitting the ground.
Probably the EU's excavators will get buried under the rubble into the bargain.

The EU 'anthem' could possibly now be...'there was I digging this hole, a hole in the ground it was big and sort of round' or better this one...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Bvd33V9dQ



and for those who don't know the song 'there was I digging this hole'



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGk4AKOwJbc

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Re: The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by Tony Bennett on 03.06.12 9:13

@aquila wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@aquila wrote:[The Spanish economy] has already fallen off the cliff edge. The EU are busy excavating to delay it hitting the ground.
Probably the EU's excavators will get buried under the rubble into the bargain.

The EU 'anthem' could possibly now be...'there was I digging this hole, a hole in the ground it was big and sort of round' or better this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Bvd33V9dQ

and for those who don't know the song 'there was I digging this hole'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGk4AKOwJbc

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller to the United Nations Business Council on September 23, 1994

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Re: The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by aquila on 03.06.12 9:46

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@aquila wrote:[The Spanish economy] has already fallen off the cliff edge. The EU are busy excavating to delay it hitting the ground.
Probably the EU's excavators will get buried under the rubble into the bargain.

The EU 'anthem' could possibly now be...'there was I digging this hole, a hole in the ground it was big and sort of round' or better this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Bvd33V9dQ

and for those who don't know the song 'there was I digging this hole'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGk4AKOwJbc

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller to the United Nations Business Council on September 23, 1994

I think 'there was I digging this hole' just about sums it up.

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SPAIN - Even nearer the precipice:

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.07.12 17:46

Even nearer the edge of the precipice:

BBC News website today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18950896

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The eurozone isn't working

Post by Tony Bennett on 09.08.12 7:42

TWO Reports from Spain [translated] this week:

One is about how they're having to put LOCKS on rubbish dumps to prevent hungry Spaniards from raiding them for food.

The other is about Trade Union members breaking and entering and looting a supermarket to get food for hungry Spaniards:

REPORT 1

Meanwhile the city of Gerona is promoting a pilot plan to close the containers with locks that are close to supermarkets and prevent homeless seeking food. As indicated by the general secretary of the SAT, Cañamero Diego, who was present at the action of Arcos, the municipality in Cadiz, about 200 union members entered a super market and took basic food to fill 20 trucks with food staples-milk, eggs, sugar, vegetables, pasta or rice, with the idea of ​​them to a food bank in the area of the Sierra de Cádiz, 'where there is a 40% unemployment and extreme poverty is at a rise'...

REPORT 2

Several members of the Andalusian Union of Workers (SAT) have entered Tuesday in a supermarkets in Ecija (Seville) and in Arcos (Cadiz) to loot food for a soup kitchen in Seville. According to union leaders, the actions are "eminent domain" and during its development there have been incidents between SAT members and employees of the supermarket.

About thirty members of the union have entered shortly before noon at the supermarket and filled ten shopping carts with food staples such as oil, sugar, rice, pasta, milk, crackers and vegetables.

The supermarkets report the theft and minor assaults committed, as they tried to leave with them, at checkout there was a struggle between the union and employees of the establishment, which required intervention by the Police.

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Re: The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by tigger on 09.08.12 9:24

We've seen the power of the supermarkets rise over the last 15 years or so to global proportions.

It beats me why people who have gardens don't grow their own veg, as long as you don't try to get a 100% yield, you'll do fine with little work.
We're like Pandas now, dependent on only one source of food supply. Tesco et al.

The supermarkets have provided far too cheap food, enslaving the farmers along with the public. Total dependency on supermarkets for food is clearly stupid. I can see a situation where you get supermarket credits instead of money and have to make do with it no matter what.


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Re: The impending collapse of Spanish banks and the Spanish economy - LATEST

Post by tigger on 09.08.12 12:30

@tigger wrote:We've seen the power of the supermarkets rise over the last 15 years or so to global proportions.

It beats me why people who have gardens don't grow their own veg, as long as you don't try to get a 100% yield, you'll do fine with little work.
We're like Pandas now, dependent on only one source of food supply. Tesco et al.

The supermarkets have provided far too cheap food, enslaving the farmers along with the public. Total dependency on supermarkets for food is clearly stupid. I can see a situation where you get supermarket credits instead of money and have to make do with it no matter what.


Obviously wasn't quite awake this morning! Just thought 'and this is relevant how?' Errrm, banks, no money to buy food....

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Some elderly savers in Spain could lose all their savings

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.08.12 8:02

Spanish savers wait for EU to decide fate

By Miles Johnson in Madrid

Antonio Barahona has been firing off letters to politicians, businessmen, and even the King of Spain. None has replied.

Each missive contains the story of how in 2009 the former telecoms worker from Madrid went to his local savings bank, or caja, where he was recommended an enticing new product offering 7 per cent interest a year on his life savings – €68,000 earned working night shifts.

Like thousands of other Spaniards, Mr Barahona, 74, is hanging on a decision by officials in Brussels to learn whether he will ever see some, or any, of his money again. Thinking he had bought a secure, fixed-term deposit, Mr Barahona had, in fact, joined investors in some €30bn of risky debt and preference shares sold by small banks during Spain’s property bubble.

A condition of a €100bn bank rescue agreed by Madrid with the EU in July is that these products will be forced to bear losses, meaning clients who bought them from the four nationalised savings banks – Bankia, Nova Caixa Galicia, CataloniaCaixa, and Banco de Valencia – could lose all their money.

“I am Spanish, and the Spanish government has a duty to protect me,” Mr Barahona says. “That is my money and the fraudsters who took it from me should end up in jail.”

The fate of these small savers directly links Spain’s bank rescue to the lives of ordinary Spaniards.

It has also accelerated a collapse in trust for institutions traditionally at the heart of communities across Spain.

The caja model – now all but swept away in nationalistions and mergers over the past three years – focused on foundations, controlled by regional governments, which gathered savings in their areas, lending them back to local businesses and homebuyers. Part of the proceeds was also invested in charitable work – a benevolence now seen as cruelly perverted against elderly and vulnerable victims of the crash.

Juana Lopez, 66, bought a similar product in 2007 from her savings bank in Cordoba. She says her sister Isabel, 74, who is illiterate, used her fingerprint to sign off on an investment of €14,000 with the same lender. The bank returned their money but only after a legal battle.

“People who bought these products were often old, had little understanding of what they were buying, and were sold them by people they trusted who they would see in the bar or at church,” says Noemi Martinez, a lawyer in Galicia representing savers.

The remaining nationalised cajas, which are waiting to receive the first €30bn tranche of the European rescue aid, are fighting to regain their clients’ trust and convince EU authorities that they still have a right to exist. Joaquín Almunia, the EU’s competition commissioner, said in June one of the nationalised cajas from Galicia, Valencia or Catalonia could be liquidated – potentially wiping out its savers altogether.

Nova Caixa Galicia, whose former managers were implicated in large payoffs and one of the most aggressive selling campaigns of risky savings products, now has a new board after it was nationalised. César González-Bueno, new chief executive, says the bank’s survival is crucial to its home region but also makes economic sense for Madrid – and Brussels.

“Nova Galicia is systemic for Galicia . . . it is unthinkable that it would be liquidated,” he says. “We have professionalised the bank, changed the board and management team and reduced costs massively – so the best economic decision [for Brussels] is to invest the money, recapitalise the bank, and recover it with a public listing.”

Nova Galicia last month became the first nationalised saving bank to beg its clients’ forgiveness, pledging never again to sell products such as preference shares and to be profitable by helping Galician savers and borrowers.

The new bank chiefs see the desire of the European authorities to inflict large losses on savers as merely damaging the value of the businesses in which Brussels will soon be a shareholder.

I will never bank with them again. I would rather keep my money under a brick
- Antonio Barahona, Retired telecoms worker

“The value in a caja is the loyalty of its client base – if you destroy that by forcing a full haircut on the preference shareholders then you hurt the bank, and they hurt their own investment,” says one senior executive at another nationalised caja .

Other bankers argue, however, that when mis-selling did not occur the investors in these products, who received high returns, should not be protected before taxpayers, and must face losses.

Nationalised lenders battling to stay alive hope that they can repair the damage and regain their customers’ trust. For many, however, it is too late.

“I will never bank with them again,” says Mr Barahona. “I would rather keep my money under a brick.”

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