The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

View previous topic View next topic Go down

It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by Guest on 16.05.12 20:52

Wednesday, 16 May 2012





It won't go away Part Two – the detailed evidence











The Madeleine Three

Throughout the summer and autumn of 2007 The Three, that is the McCanns and the spokesman who retailed their views, maintained time and again that they wanted to go back and help with an officially mooted police reconstruction of May3. From November onwards the idea of such a reconstruction, the format of which was fixed and which, of course, had nothing to do with Crimewatch – type badly acted re-creations, began to turn into reality.

In April the McCanns were informed that there was an end of the month deadline for their decision and at that point the tenor of the Three's public statements began to change. As late as January 2008, however, they were still repeating their four month old mantra of full-hearted support for the Portuguese investigation.




Clarence Mitchell, December 5 2007:

"If Kate and Gerry, or indeed any of their friends, are required to go back to Portugal they will be more than happy to comply.They will do anything necessary if it helps them move on and be eliminated as suspects."'

Clarence Mitchell, December 13:

"We are well aware of what the papers are saying but we have heard nothing official from the Portuguese police. If it does happen, no-one has anything to hide and they will happily tell the police what they want to hear over timings and anything else they are not sure about."

Clarence Mitchell, January 4 2008:

"Kate and Gerry, and their friends particularly, are very keen to talk to the Portuguese police again because they want to be able to clarify any inconsistencies to do with the timeline of events on May 3, or whenever the police put forward."

Clarence Mitchell, January 29:

"For some months now we have actively offered to assist this process, to get it underway as soon as possible. Kate and Gerry's friends are keen that it should happen soon and want any bureaucracy - whether it's in Portugal or England - to be cleared quickly.

Any inconsistencies the police believe exist in their evidence can be cleared up very quickly and then we hope Kate and Gerry's names will be cleared. As far as we are concerned this cannot happen soon enough."




There followed a lengthy period of relative silence while the groundwork was being laid for the UK rogatory interviews in early April. The Portuguese saw the reconstruction and the interviews as a unity: the Tapas 7 could have their full say and then the reconstruction would test their considered versions.

The reconstruction was therefore suddenly becoming a reality rather than a possibility and the McCanns had until the end of the month at the latest to inform the Portuguese of their intentions – so it was now time for the parents to put their "keenness" to co-operate with such an exercise into action. On April 7 the PJ arrived in the UK for the interviews.




Clarence Mitchell, April 4:
'Kate and Gerry are currently deciding whether to return to Portugal. [again, clearly demonstrating that they had a choice]. It is being discussed.Going to Portugal would send out the strongest possible message that Madeleine could still be alive and the search for her should continue. The family feel the focus should be on finding Madeleine.

Next week's interviews will help in gauging the police attitude. In an ideal world they would not be arguidos and their lawyers have always warned them not to return while they have that status."




Clarence Mitchell had let the cat out of the bag, hadn't he? And two days later he explicitly confirmed that under legal advice they were not going back to Portugal until they were no longer arguidos, even though all the reasons and reservations they were to come up as their "reasons" hadn't arisen yet!




Clarence Mitchell, April 6:

"If they returned now to Portugal it would be a distraction and would put pressure on police.Their lawyers would block it anyway.But once their arguido status has been lifted, they will feel differently."




And a day after that they began to spin in the new direction. What had happened to the repeated promises to participate with enthusiasm? After being quoted anonymously as saying that Kate McCann might be too traumatised to take part in a reconstruction Mitchell made another statement.

He put forward the complete invention that a PJ reconstruction, an official measure of the Portuguese criminal code, its status and format fixed and known, a part of the investigative process and not for public consumption, was actually a televised Crimewatch episode.




Clarence Mitchell, April 8:

"There are loads of questions still to be addressed such as whether the twins, Sean and Amelie, will be required and what the actual re-enactment will be used for.

No-one knows whether it will be done behind closed doors or whether it will be a Crimewatch-style reconstruction used to try and generate new leads. All these types of things need to be ironed out before a decision is made." [But, as you have just seen, the lawyers had already made the decision].




And then in an another interview at the same he and the parents made their second invention of the week. That the idea of the reconstruction was not part of the Portuguese penal code at all – but a suggestion of the McCanns!




Clarence Mitchell:

"Gerry and Kate suggested months ago that a reconstruction [here the three deliberately conflate the idea of a television appeal with the Portuguese penal code provision] should take place but were told by the police that they didn't do it.We want to be sure that no confusion or contradiction comes out of this [!] and that it doesn't in any way make matters worse.

They are happy to assist the police in anything that might help them generate new leads but there are genuine considerations to be discussed."




And now Kate appears to have had one of her convenient mental collapses.




Clarence Mitchell:

"Kate is upset. There's been no sense of concern for her feelings or the anguish it will cause her. On an emotional level she is not sure she can go through with it.The family will consider it. If it's felt that there's a chance of it helping to find Madeleine then, of course, they will do it. But given it is a year on, you have to wonder about the value of it."[Again, free to choose, and in the process of choosing, not compelled]

Clarence Mitchell:

"However, Kate and Gerry would very much welcome a Crimewatch-style reconstruction which is properly broadcast for millions of people to see and could generate important new leads and fresh information.

"It's untrue to say that Kate and Gerry have been called back or summoned back. Their lawyers are very much continuing discussions with the Portuguese police and if any such decision is taken to take part, an announcement will be made at the appropriate time."




So yet again he is confirming that their presence was a matter for decision by them and their lawyer team, not the Portuguese. And, with the deadline for telling the Portuguese of their decision only days away, Gerry finally came in to speak himself on the BBC.




Gerry McCann, April 24:

"We want to work with the Portuguese authorities, we have co-operated with them since day one and we have been completely open and transparent. We’ve told them every single bit of information that we have had at our disposal and answered all their questions, so of course we can see a scenario by which we continue to work with them."




Fine. But near the end of the programme the interviewer asked him if going back to Portugal for the reconstruction was "risky", given that they might be still be charged with child neglect.




Gerry McCann:
"Well we talked about this early on. We were given legal advice that what we did was well within the bounds of reasonable parenting and of course, at the time, we thought what we did was perfectly reasonable.

However hindsight has proven that we made a mistake. Clearly we would never leave the children again. We are paying more for that than anyone could possibly ever imagine, but, you know, clearly I think such a charge one has to ask why are people talking about that now when we’re almost a year down the line and Madeleine hasn’t been found? They have no more information now than was available to them on the 4th of May, so why are we talking about such a charge now?"




Did you get all that? He was asked the simple question "was it 'risky' to return to Portugal now?" Yes or no? Where's his answer in all that self-serving junk? Why isn't it there?

The answer is missing from the transcript. Readers may wonder – although the reason is really obvious given the terms that the pair and their lawyers impose on their interviewers – why that is so and why music is played instead. After the music ends the interviewer seems to have been in no doubt that he had replied and what the answer to his question was.






Interviewer:

"So the McCann’s continue to campaign and to travel, but for now Portugal remains off limits. The crime of ‘abandoning’ children carries a jail term of up to 5 years, and the couple simply won’t risk another confrontation with the police."

The McCanns were given a transcript of the programme before it was broadcast.







It won't go away Part Three, the invented alibi

So the decision had been taken, just under a week before the Portuguese deadline was up; clearly it had not been dependent on any decisions the Tapas 7 had taken. Since it was the first Madeleine Memorial Birthday Carnival & Jamboree the two dozen or so interviews that the pair gave that week concentrated on the gooey stuff, not the highly significant decision they had taken, which – surprise, surprise – was drowned out by the noise.

It remained for Mitchell to try and package the whole affair up on behalf of all three of them, insert the alibi about it being the T7's decision and not the parents', since the latter had no choice, and hope that it would all be forgotten. Bad luck, Clarence! On May 9 he was interviewed in Ireland in front of an audience and was given a most helpfully phrased take-off point for discussion of the reconstruction by a production team and interviewer with rather odd standards of background research. Just what Clarence wanted, in fact.


Mitchell's Irish interviewer
Note the limited neural area.That's why Mitchell was there




Interviewer: "Now, the.. the last err, thing is quite amazing. It's an astonishing development in the sense that it's about a cancellation of a reconstruction of what happened on that night. Wh... the reconstruction wasn't going to be televised, so what was the point of it?"

Clarence Mitchell: [Having, of course, had the details of Portuguese investigative reconstructions explained to him in detail by the couple's lawyers for months but apparently totally ignorant of them now] "Well, that's exactly the question that Gerry, Kate and their friends were asking. Err, there were a whole host of reasons that they had very strong concerns about what this would actually achieve, what they've all said consistently and continue to do so, will do anything to help find Madeleine."




And then, sounding rather like Aunty Phil, as he often does on the rare occasions he speaks extempore, hegave the compelling reasons that had somehow overridden those months of promises to return and co-operate. Note again how an official action under the penal code had somehow been turned into a kind of showbiz "proposal" with no investigative or legal basis.




Clarence Mitchell: "This particular proposal, the way it was phrased and the way it was being put forward, then [sic] felt not in any shape or form help to find her. [no, we don't know what the twat meant by that either.] As you say, it wouldn't have been televised, there would be no new leads coming in... Err, why, what good would it have done well over a year after the event. Erm, nobody seemed to have given any consideration to Kate's mental well being. You know, was she expected to see a child playing Madeleine in front of her? All sorts of other questions. "

Interviewer: Now, they, they were going to use erm, the McCann's and the people who were there actually that night rather than actors.
Clarence Mitchell: Well exactly, and how many reconstructions have you heard of, erm, in Ireland, Britain, or anywhere else, where the original people involved in a case, actually take part. It is virtually unheard of.And so again, that made us, made our Lawyers wonder what, you know, what is going on here? [our italics] And on top of that the Portuguese as a norm, do not do reconstructions.




Finally, the new line emerged in all its glory, the one the supporters have fallen for ever since, that – despite all the evidence you have read above that the McCanns were not going back come what may – the parents couldn't refuse because they were helpless law-abiding arguidos but the Tapas 7 were free to choose and unfortunately…

Anyway, read, and treasure this climatic example of Mitchell-junk at its uncomplicated worst.




Clarence Mitchell: "Last year, just after Madeleine was taken, BBC Crimewatch [ah, not Gerry or Kate then] proposed just such a reconstruction with actors, and the police said no, no, we don't do that here, we don't do reconstructions. And yet suddenly they turn round over a year later to say we will do one on our terms. And, erm, you know, there was some debate within the group. Now Gerry and Kate, as arguidos, as... as suspects, err, I... [remembers his lines] would have had to go back if they were forced back, legally to go.

There was no question of them saying 'no we couldn't go'. But the friends are not, erm, suspected of anything, or not involved directly in that sense, err, that degree. And as a result they have freedom of choice. And they discussed it themselves at length, and decided to let the police know that no, thank you for this offer on this occasion, but we don't feel it would be helpful.

An... and that's what happened and the Police made it clear as well, they wanted everybody or it wouldn't happen. And as soon as one or two of the friends said no, then it simply, erm, fell away. And... "

Yes Clarence. Yes, Kate & Gerry.

http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/it-won-go-away-part-one.html?spref=tw

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by Guest on 16.05.12 20:58

That is excellent from Blacksmith. Just shows the world what a spinning t**d that man is!!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by friedtomatoes on 16.05.12 21:02

Pure unadulterated genius. lol!

Have a nice rest of the evening all.
roses

friedtomatoes

Posts : 591
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-04-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by Snifferdog on 16.05.12 21:38

Another excellent piece of Journalism by Blacksmith! Kate could not stand the strain of a reconstruction, but was happy to relive the it all in front of the cameras or in the papers....

Snifferdog

Posts : 1008
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-05-11
Location : here

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by tigger on 16.05.12 21:39

candyfloss wrote:That is excellent from Blacksmith. Just shows the world what a spinning t**d that man is!!

Gosh! He's a natural in all of this isn't he? Does he never hear himself speak? Yet in Januari they were already discussing making a film and film rights. I'll look it up. Blacksmith is terrific. Also a new syndrome in the previous one: Severe confirmatory information deficiency syndrome. SCIDS.

After all those pearls of wisdom of CM I'm going to lie down in a darkened room with a wet towel on my head!

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8112
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by Ashwarya on 16.05.12 22:38

Blacksmith is pure genius, and we have been treated to so much brilliant material over the last couple of weeks. We are lucky to have such able and talented people commenting on this dreadful business.

I am missing Dr Martin Roberts' pieces very much since McCann Files went silent. Does anyone have any news of Nigel or when the site is likely to be up and running again? It is such a shame that after 5 years hard graft he is not posting at such a momentous time for news.

Ashwarya

Posts : 141
Reputation : 17
Join date : 2011-04-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by aiyoyo on 16.05.12 22:49

That's the man performing his duty properly of controlling what comes out of the media.

What a dreadful job, lying through as many teeth he has in his mouth to earn his keep, yet he objects to the term "Manipulator".

HIs conscience has gone with the devil.


aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by mira2 on 16.05.12 23:33

There is only one reason that a Parent of a missing child would resort to hiring a mouthpiece, it is because that parent has someting to hide, and is no longer cooperating with the investigation. Believe me all this bull about parents of missing children being given their rights has more to do with voting rights than it has to do with the subject at hand. See children out there do not have a vote, they are failed time and time again by the system. They have no voice. so how are they going to address their problem?

The Levensen enquiry is big on everyones thoughts right now, the question is why did it take an enquiry for the mases to wake up to the fact that we are a sick society, and will the Levenson enquiry change anything, will it get to the hearts and minds? I doubt it, we are what we are, and we deserve what we get, our offspring deserve better, and I sense that they will in their own time attempt to correct the wrongs, it won't be a pretty sight, but one that we deserve.

Oor genaration failed to speak out loud enough over the past decade when T Blair was running amok wih Murdoc, and we are still silent about the atrocities that went on .........WHY?

mira2

Posts : 87
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-05-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by jd on 16.05.12 23:54

@mira2 wrote:
The Levensen enquiry is big on everyones thoughts right now, the question is why did it take an enquiry for the mases to wake up to the fact that we are a sick society, and will the Levenson enquiry change anything, will it get to the hearts and minds? I doubt it, we are what we are, and we deserve what we get, our offspring deserve better, and I sense that they will in their own time attempt to correct the wrongs, it won't be a pretty sight, but one that we deserve.

Oor genaration failed to speak out loud enough over the past decade when T Blair was running amok wih Murdoc, and we are still silent about the atrocities that went on .........WHY?

I totally agree mira2..Our generation has totally failed our offspring. During the Bliar years I said always one day future generations will read in the history books of what he did and question why nobody did or say anything, it was so obvious what was happening.Our generation is too focused on celebrity, football and plasma TV's. One of the problems of having everything you need at hand, you don't need to try anymore or test yourself, or even use any brain cells to think....This is where good parenting comes in!!

jd

Posts : 4152
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-07-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by jmac on 17.05.12 1:49

Gerry McCann, April 24:


"We want to work with the Portuguese authorities, we have co-operated with them since day one and we have been completely open and transparent. We’ve told them every single bit of information that we have had at our disposal and answered all their questions, so of course we can see a scenario by which we continue to work with them."

(Open and transparent? What about the 48 questions Kate refused to answer?)

But near the end of the programme the interviewer asked him if going back to Portugal for the reconstruction was "risky", given that they might still be charged with child neglect.


Gerry McCann:
"Well we talked about this early on. We were given legal advice that what we did was well within the bounds of reasonable parenting and of course, at the time, we thought what we did was perfectly reasonable.

(And their reasonable parenting had nothing to do with Madeleine`s disappearance because Kate has already told us that it happened under other circumstances.)

(If only Kate and Gerry would transparently and openly inform the police, or at least carry out the reconstruction in order to demonstrate these `other circumstances`. Why not?)

(Enter Clarence, the master media manipulator to explain:)

Clarence Mitchell: "This particular proposal, the way it was phrased and the way it was being put forward, then [sic] felt not in any shape or form help to find her. [no, we don't know what the twat meant by that either.]

So that`s that then. The yarn has been spun.

jmac

Posts : 121
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-09-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by tigger on 17.05.12 6:08

In one of the Swedsh interviews it still bothers them, I think it was the second one.
Gerry said that the reason they didn't do the reconstruction is that it wasn't to find Madeleine but to find inconsistencies.

It needs no comment!

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8112
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by jmac on 17.05.12 6:38

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2012/04/28/bungling-portuguese-cop-backs-call-for-madeleine-mccann-case-to-be-reopened-86908-23840493/

bungling cop Amaral wants case re-opened.

Yes, I`m sure he`d like those inconsistencies investigated.

jmac

Posts : 121
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-09-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by rainbow-fairy on 19.05.12 13:55

This leapt out at me:

Clarence Mitchell:

"Kate is upset. There's been no sense of concern for her feelings or the anguish it will cause her. On an emotional level she is not sure she can go through with it. The family will consider it. If it's felt that there's a chance of it helping to find Madeleine then, of course, they will do it. But given it is a year on, you have to wonder about the value of it."[Again, free to choose, and in the process of choosing, not compelled]

So, if only a year on they felt there was no 'value' in it to help madeleine, what the hell help will a book four years on and the age progressed picture and all the jazz now be to help her?
Sadly I think nothing can be done for Madeleine.

Excellent analysis by Blacksmith as usual. Up to reading this I hadn't realised McCann Files had gone quiet. Did wonder why no word from Dr Roberts - any ideas?

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by Guest on 19.05.12 14:23

@rainbow-fairy wrote:This leapt out at me:

Clarence Mitchell:

"Kate is upset. There's been no sense of concern for her feelings or the anguish it will cause her. On an emotional level she is not sure she can go through with it. The family will consider it. If it's felt that there's a chance of it helping to find Madeleine then, of course, they will do it. But given it is a year on, you have to wonder about the value of it."[Again, free to choose, and in the process of choosing, not compelled]

So, if only a year on they felt there was no 'value' in it to help madeleine, what the hell help will a book four years on and the age progressed picture and all the jazz now be to help her?
Sadly I think nothing can be done for Madeleine.

Excellent analysis by Blacksmith as usual. Up to reading this I hadn't realised McCann Files had gone quiet. Did wonder why no word from Dr Roberts - any ideas?

I think there is a note on the latest news section that Nigel has hardware problems, and the site hasn't been updated for quite a while.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by rainbow-fairy on 19.05.12 15:06

candyfloss wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:This leapt out at me:

Clarence Mitchell:

"Kate is upset. There's been no sense of concern for her feelings or the anguish it will cause her. On an emotional level she is not sure she can go through with it. The family will consider it. If it's felt that there's a chance of it helping to find Madeleine then, of course, they will do it. But given it is a year on, you have to wonder about the value of it."[Again, free to choose, and in the process of choosing, not compelled]

So, if only a year on they felt there was no 'value' in it to help madeleine, what the hell help will a book four years on and the age progressed picture and all the jazz now be to help her?
Sadly I think nothing can be done for Madeleine.

Excellent analysis by Blacksmith as usual. Up to reading this I hadn't realised McCann Files had gone quiet. Did wonder why no word from Dr Roberts - any ideas?

I think there is a note on the latest news section that Nigel has hardware problems, and the site hasn't been updated for quite a while.
TY candyfloss :)

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by Guest on 19.05.12 15:24

Hehe I phrased that rather badly, Nigel has hardware problems, sounds rather painful big grin

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by rainbow-fairy on 19.05.12 16:45

candyfloss wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:This leapt out at me:

Clarence Mitchell:

"Kate is upset. There's been no sense of concern for her feelings or the anguish it will cause her. On an emotional level she is not sure she can go through with it. The family will consider it. If it's felt that there's a chance of it helping to find Madeleine then, of course, they will do it. But given it is a year on, you have to wonder about the value of it."[Again, free to choose, and in the process of choosing, not compelled]

So, if only a year on they felt there was no 'value' in it to help madeleine, what the hell help will a book four years on and the age progressed picture and all the jazz now be to help her?
Sadly I think nothing can be done for Madeleine.

Excellent analysis by Blacksmith as usual. Up to reading this I hadn't realised McCann Files had gone quiet. Did wonder why no word from Dr Roberts - any ideas?

I think there is a note on the latest news section that Nigel has hardware problems, and the site hasn't been updated for quite a while.
TY candyfloss :)

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: It won't go away - Part Two - the detailed evidence by Blacksmith Bureau

Post by margaret on 20.05.13 10:28

I hope you don't mind l've taken this link to post this thread on MM.

I thought it would be helpful for everyone to be reminded just how eager the McCanns and the tapas group are for a reconstruction and to eliminate themselves as suspects, should any of them be amongst the ones SY have mentioned this weekend that need to be eliminated.

margaret

Posts : 585
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-09-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum