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Room With A Tapas View

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Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 15.05.12 1:02

We all know about mccann's story that eating at the Tapas bar was like having a BBQ in your back garden. How they booked that table so they could see clearly the apartments and keep check. We've had kate correcting us all that it was only 49.2 meters away if you look on google etc etc. But what is the real truth...what view of the apartments did they really have....was it one they could easily see an abductor enter their apartment?

From Diane Webster statement - 11 May 2007
"she added that the restaurant always reserved the same table for the group at the only table that was capable of seating a group composed of nine people. Asked, she states that, although it is positioned in front of the balconies at the rear of the residential block, the angle of vision can not permit full control over possible access by people to the interior of ground-floor apartment patios that are there - especially since the restaurant is covered by a transparent oilcloth which hampers vision. Asked who has done the booking of the restaurant, says that it has been done by RACHEL, explaining that although the dinner is scheduled for 20:30, the group never gathered before 2OH45/21HOO due to successive delays of several couples."

This photo taken for Paris Match seems to back up Diane Websters statement....Nobody could notice anyone entering the apartments through this transparent oilcloth, with vision even more impaired drinking alcohol


From mccann files:

It is very difficult to imagine that any of the group could have seen anything of the apartments, given it was night-time and the lights inside the restaurant would have naturally reflected on the clear sheeting.

Being seated at a round/oval table means that some members of the group were seated with their backs to the apartments (including Kate and Gerry according to Gonçalo Amaral) and, in themselves, providing a further barrier to vision for those seated opposite.

In addition, by being enclosed, and with the general noise and chatter inside the restaurant, it is very hard to imagine that the screams or cries for help from a distressed baby, or small tot, left alone in the apartment, would ever be heard.

From Gonçalo Amaral's book, 'The Truth of the Lie', page 60:

'At night, with the existing vegetation, in a restaurant with a lateral opaque plastic cover and with the group of friends sat with their backs to the apartments, they weren't seeing anything and any person could easily have had access to the apartment without being detected, coming in and calmly and deceptively coming out.'


Not looking at all it was like having a BBQ in your back garden gerry! Nobody could see or notice anything in truth

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jarof on 15.05.12 14:47

Gerry is full of shit. Even if you had a good view of the door, you'd have to be watching it 24/7 to spot someone going in and out.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 19.05.12 0:29

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_AGAPITO.htm

"On the other hand, the space between the restaurant and the apartment is an open space that could have been frequented by anyone. Adding that from the restaurant table where the group sat it is difficult to see out due to a window covering. This would have made it difficult to see their apartment windows; "

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 19.05.12 0:47

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RICARDO-A-D-L-OLIVEIRA.htm

"When asked he says that the place where the table that Madeleine's parents dined at did not have a clear view of the apartment, merely the back of the apartment and it was dark when the events occurred and that there is no lighting plus the fact that there is an opaque plastic windshield around the restaurant."

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jmac on 19.05.12 0:53

Anxious parents would also want to be assured that they could hear the children crying if they woke up.

Wasn`t it Madeleine herself who reported that she and her sibling had been crying much to the surprise of the parents? They hadn`t heard a thing.

So what did they do about it?

Well, Kate discussed it back at the Tapas bar the following night!

Well within the bounds of reasonable parenting we are informed - by the parents.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 19.05.12 1:04

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIAGO-F-P-D-FREITAS.htm

When asked he said that from the dining table the group were seated at it would be difficult to have a clear view of the place the girl disappeared from. There are physical obstacles such as a plastic wind shield, the wall surrounding the pool and the restaurant, the wall around the apartment as well as the vegetation. With regard to the apartment in question, he thinks that a light being turned on in the apartment could be detected, but not more than that.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 19.05.12 1:07

@jmac wrote:Anxious parents would also want to be assured that they could hear the children crying if they woke up.

Wasn`t it Madeleine herself who reported that she and her sibling had been crying much to the surprise of the parents? They hadn`t heard a thing.

So what did they do about it?

Well, Kate discussed it back at the Tapas bar the following night!

Well within the bounds of reasonable parenting we are informed - by the parents.

Its clear from the staff and one of Tapas 9 members that they would't have a clue if a child was crying, or if anyone broke into their apartments. gerry mccanns 'its like having a BBQ in your back garden' is just one big fat lie

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by pingunootnoot on 19.05.12 12:38

@jd wrote:
@jmac wrote:Anxious parents would also want to be assured that they could hear the children crying if they woke up.

Wasn`t it Madeleine herself who reported that she and her sibling had been crying much to the surprise of the parents? They hadn`t heard a thing.

So what did they do about it?

Well, Kate discussed it back at the Tapas bar the following night!

Well within the bounds of reasonable parenting we are informed - by the parents.

Its clear from the staff and one of Tapas 9 members that they would't have a clue if a child was crying, or if anyone broke into their apartments. gerry mccanns 'its like having a BBQ in your back garden' is just one big fat lie

Even if i was dining in my garden i would take a baby monitor with me, so his words doesn't justify their actions in any way.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by sami on 19.05.12 14:51

@pingunootnoot wrote:
@jd wrote:
@jmac wrote:Anxious parents would also want to be assured that they could hear the children crying if they woke up.

Wasn`t it Madeleine herself who reported that she and her sibling had been crying much to the surprise of the parents? They hadn`t heard a thing.

So what did they do about it?

Well, Kate discussed it back at the Tapas bar the following night!

Well within the bounds of reasonable parenting we are informed - by the parents.

Its clear from the staff and one of Tapas 9 members that they would't have a clue if a child was crying, or if anyone broke into their apartments. gerry mccanns 'its like having a BBQ in your back garden' is just one big fat lie

Even if i was dining in my garden i would take a baby monitor with me, so his words doesn't justify their actions in any way.



The equivalent of "dining in your backgarden" while staying at a holiday apartment is dining on your balcony / terrace. They are both within the confines of the property, not across public roads etc.

In fact, why did the Tapas not do this - congregate on somebody's terrace to eat all together ? They would be much closer to their apartments, it would be much easier and a shorter route to pop next door to check the children. The Tapas restaurant provided a take away service - order off the menu and arrange to collect the food at a given time. They even provided the drinks to take away. Why not do that ?

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by Guest on 19.05.12 14:55

[quote="sami"]
@pingunootnoot wrote:
@jd wrote:
@jmac wrote:Anxious parents would also want to be assured that they could hear the children crying if they woke up.

Wasn`t it Madeleine herself who reported that she and her sibling had been crying much to the surprise of the parents? They hadn`t heard a thing.

So what did they do about it?

Well, Kate discussed it back at the Tapas bar the following night!

Well within the bounds of reasonable parenting we are informed - by the


Its clear from the staff and one of Tapas 9 members that they would't have a clue if a child was crying, or if anyone broke into their apartments. gerry mccanns 'its like having a BBQ in your back garden' is just one big fat lie

Even if i was dining in my garden i would take a baby monitor with me, so his words doesn't justify their actions in any way.



The equivalent of "dining in your backgarden" while staying at a holiday apartment is dining on your balcony / terrace. They are both within the confines of the property, not across public roads etc.

In fact, why did the Tapas not do this - congregate on somebody's terrace to eat all together ? They would be much closer to their apartments, it would be much easier and a shorter route to pop next door to check the children. The Tapas restaurant provided a take away service - order off the menu and arrange to collect the food at a given time. They even provided the drinks to take away. Why not do that ?

thumbsup

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by friedtomatoes on 19.05.12 15:21

The patios were not large enough for the group to get together
The evening creche was free, I think it was right next to the tapas bar as well but I may be mistaken
Babysitters were available to sit in the apartments
As mentioned here they could have had a rota for looking after the kids
But they felt it was right and safe to leave three toddlers alone, out of ear and eyeshot in an unsecured open access apartment
Ive not read ever that any other holidaymakers there did what they did, funny that, tapas group excluded as well as the thousands of people who Gerry said in May 2007 had written to them saying they have done or would do exactly that! (source: Ian Woods sky interview available on youtube) and transcript here:
http://news.sky.com/home/article/1267568

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by Nina on 19.05.12 15:22

[quote="Moa"]
@sami wrote:
@pingunootnoot wrote:
@jd wrote:
@jmac wrote:Anxious parents would also want to be assured that they could hear the children crying if they woke up.

Wasn`t it Madeleine herself who reported that she and her sibling had been crying much to the surprise of the parents? They hadn`t heard a thing.

So what did they do about it?

Well, Kate discussed it back at the Tapas bar the following night!

Well within the bounds of reasonable parenting we are informed - by the


Its clear from the staff and one of Tapas 9 members that they would't have a clue if a child was crying, or if anyone broke into their apartments. gerry mccanns 'its like having a BBQ in your back garden' is just one big fat lie

Even if i was dining in my garden i would take a baby monitor with me, so his words doesn't justify their actions in any way.



The equivalent of "dining in your backgarden" while staying at a holiday apartment is dining on your balcony / terrace. They are both within the confines of the property, not across public roads etc.

In fact, why did the Tapas not do this - congregate on somebody's terrace to eat all together ? They would be much closer to their apartments, it would be much easier and a shorter route to pop next door to check the children. The Tapas restaurant provided a take away service - order off the menu and arrange to collect the food at a given time. They even provided the drinks to take away. Why not do that ?

thumbsup

Hmmmm, I wonder why they didn't winkwink

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 19.05.12 15:24

@jd wrote:
@jmac wrote:Anxious parents would also want to be assured that they could hear the children crying if they woke up.

Wasn`t it Madeleine herself who reported that she and her sibling had been crying much to the surprise of the parents? They hadn`t heard a thing.

So what did they do about it?

Well, Kate discussed it back at the Tapas bar the following night!

Well within the bounds of reasonable parenting we are informed - by the parents.

Its clear from the staff and one of Tapas 9 members that they would't have a clue if a child was crying, or if anyone broke into their apartments. gerry mccanns 'its like having a BBQ in your back garden' is just one big fat lie

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Indeed it is and this nonsensical statement is what turned a great many members of the public into detractors. It was bad enough to admit to leaving infants unattended, and the McCanns, in fairness, have had this aspect thrown back at them innumerable times with limited scope for answering in any way other than tedious repetition. However, they should never have tried to defend it in the first place. It should have been their first response to denounce themselves as fools, admit that it was a ridiculous thing to do and risk getting a minor charge of abandonment or whatever, for their remiss behaviour.

As soon as they said it was what many others did, that they had been assured it was within the bounds of reasonable parenting and dining in the back garden claptrap, they completely insulted and alienated untold numbers of parents who would passionately oppose such a viewpoint. All those parents who seek out proper childcare, accept that they can't just go out because they feel like it and generally accept that when you have children, one has to adapt to put their needs first at all times were quite rightly outraged that here are these people making stupid statements which are morally unacceptable and not actually true. They have yet to acknowledge that they are or have been very selfish in their outlook, or indeed, that their ideas about what is OK are actually wrong. Public opinion about them would have been greatly improved had they acted with a modicum of humility or self deprecation. Instead, sadly for them, they chose to behave in ways that the right thinking majority find wholly unacceptable.

We can clearly see as a matter of record, the McCanns and their cohorts use language and terms of expression that demonstrate that they themselves had some sort of right or authority to direct the investigation, to decide what should or should not be done. We also have clear factual record that on occasion they disobeyed the advice and instruction from the authorities. They had spokespeople, advisors etc throwing their weight around. In short, demonstrated a sense of self importance. Members of the public don't accept this behaviour - arrogance and ignorance are like deadly social sins, it doesn't win you many friends.

They have at best been blinkered and badly advised by their so-called advisors. At worst, their powers of perception are seriously lacking, worrying among qualified medics. LISTEN to the public, and stop churning out stock phrases that make people want to scream! Use a bit of intelligence, for Gods sake. If you want support, then THINK how the words you spew forth will actually land with the listening public.

So Gerry and Kate, in the future, please don't use the eating in your garden analogy. No decent parent eats that far away from sleeping tots, because from that distance with various walls and doors in the way, you couldn't hear a child choking. And Gerry, you mentioned in an interview once that it was like being outside mowing the lawn for 1/2hr while the kids were inside. That also is a dangerous and irresponsible attitude. If a child fell, or got hold of something sharp or choked, you wouldn't here it over the lawnmower. Half an hour out of sight and sound of a child is NEVER acceptable. Got it?


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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jmac on 19.05.12 15:48

Arrogant and ignorant. Yes, it`s not a good mix.

Good post.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by Fred Up on 19.05.12 22:32

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:

Indeed it is and this nonsensical statement is what turned a great many members of the public into detractors. It was bad enough to admit to leaving infants unattended, and the McCanns, in fairness, have had this aspect thrown back at them innumerable times with limited scope for answering in any way other than tedious repetition. However, they should never have tried to defend it in the first place. It should have been their first response to denounce themselves as fools, admit that it was a ridiculous thing to do and risk getting a minor charge of abandonment or whatever, for their remiss behaviour.

As soon as they said it was what many others did, that they had been assured it was within the bounds of reasonable parenting and dining in the back garden claptrap, they completely insulted and alienated untold numbers of parents who would passionately oppose such a viewpoint. All those parents who seek out proper childcare, accept that they can't just go out because they feel like it and generally accept that when you have children, one has to adapt to put their needs first at all times were quite rightly outraged that here are these people making stupid statements which are morally unacceptable and not actually true. They have yet to acknowledge that they are or have been very selfish in their outlook, or indeed, that their ideas about what is OK are actually wrong. Public opinion about them would have been greatly improved had they acted with a modicum of humility or self deprecation. Instead, sadly for them, they chose to behave in ways that the right thinking majority find wholly unacceptable.

We can clearly see as a matter of record, the McCanns and their cohorts use language and terms of expression that demonstrate that they themselves had some sort of right or authority to direct the investigation, to decide what should or should not be done. We also have clear factual record that on occasion they disobeyed the advice and instruction from the authorities. They had spokespeople, advisors etc throwing their weight around. In short, demonstrated a sense of self importance. Members of the public don't accept this behaviour - arrogance and ignorance are like deadly social sins, it doesn't win you many friends.

They have at best been blinkered and badly advised by their so-called advisors. At worst, their powers of perception are seriously lacking, worrying among qualified medics. LISTEN to the public, and stop churning out stock phrases that make people want to scream! Use a bit of intelligence, for Gods sake. If you want support, then THINK how the words you spew forth will actually land with the listening public.

So Gerry and Kate, in the future, please don't use the eating in your garden analogy. No decent parent eats that far away from sleeping tots, because from that distance with various walls and doors in the way, you couldn't hear a child choking. And Gerry, you mentioned in an interview once that it was like being outside mowing the lawn for 1/2hr while the kids were inside. That also is a dangerous and irresponsible attitude. If a child fell, or got hold of something sharp or choked, you wouldn't here it over the lawnmower. Half an hour out of sight and sound of a child is NEVER acceptable. Got it?



clapping1 bravo

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 19.05.12 22:49

The mccanns and their friends have been shown that their close watch of their children to be one where none of them were in FACT under the parents protection, they were totally exposed on their own. The mccanns and their friends may have as well gone to the millennium bar, little did being in the Tapas bar have in being able to protect them. Their kids all alone, in the dark, in unlocked apartments on foreign soil open for anyone to go in, the parents could't see, they could't hear, they were oblivious to anything happening in their apartments...they were not in a position in reality to protect them

No matter what anyone says or believes..... the truth is....They are simply all child neglectors

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by Spaniel on 19.05.12 23:23

@jd wrote:The mccanns and their friends have been shown that their close watch of their children to be one where none of them were in FACT under the parents protection, they were totally exposed on their own. The mccanns and their friends may have as well gone to the millennium bar, little did being in the Tapas bar have in being able to protect them. Their kids all alone, in the dark, in unlocked apartments on foreign soil open for anyone to go in, the parents could't see, they could't hear, they were oblivious to anything happening in their apartments...they were not in a position in reality to protect them

No matter what anyone says or believes..... the truth is....They are simply all child neglectors
I don't think so. Either one was doing the rounds, but more likely all the kids were together with the Payne's listening device. Four sets of parents plus a grandmother, would not agree to such a plan. Out of nine adults there would have been a dissenter to the arrangement.

They knew the MW system. Take the children to the evening creche, get them to sleep and leave. Problem was, picking them up again was too early for them, so they devised the same system in an apartment.

All children in Payne's flat, listening device on, one parent the watcher for the night and every bit as effective as the MW system.

That's why IMO the cots disappeared and reappeared because they had been at the Paynes.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 19.05.12 23:42

I don't think you see the point Spaniel....the time in between their 15mins/30mins checks, they had zero protection from the parents as the parents couldn't see nor hear the apartments. This is nothing but child neglect leaving your kids absolutely vulnerable in this position for a large part of each night

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by Spaniel on 20.05.12 0:33

@jd wrote:I don't think you see the point Spaniel....the time in between their 15mins/30mins checks, they had zero protection from the parents as the parents couldn't see nor hear the apartments. This is nothing but child neglect leaving your kids absolutely vulnerable in this position for a large part of each night
Hi jd. My point is the children were not left as the T9 said but supervised by baby listening device and by a checker each night, you know the one who was sick each night.

There were no checks by any parents on other's kids. Whether they claim 15 or 30 mins,even 2 hours, makes no difference. There was no need for checks and all this Benny Hill running around is nonsense. I believe all kids were in one room being listened to by the Payne's machine placed on a shelf behind in the Tapas. That was reinforced by a "volunteer" each night to at least go and double check it out.

The "negligence" is the greatest smokescreen, without it there can be no abduction.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jd on 20.05.12 0:45

I totally agree with you Spaniel, there were no checks as one adult was supervising all the kids each night. The checks story is totally fabricated. As without the child neglect, there is no window of opportunity for the abduction

I was replying to the mccann propaganda machine's story timeline of events

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jmac on 20.05.12 1:00

The way I see this is that it has just been an exercise. That is, assume that what Kate and Gerry have said about their childcare arrangements is true, what does that say about their parenting?

Answer: What it says is that they were highly neglectful.

Having cleared that out of the way the next question is: So why would they admit to being so neglectful?

Answer: Without neglect, there could have been no abduction.

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by friedtomatoes on 20.05.12 6:56

There wasnt someone missing every night from dinner, Monday and Thursday all were present.
What is the story about disappearing cots? The only thing I know is that the cleaner of 5a says on the wednesday morning there was a cot in the parents room in 5a.Which was denied by kate mccann. Also if the kids were all sleeping in the paynes flat how did mrs fenn hear a child crying for over an hour in the flat below her, ie 5a on the tuesday. Did all the kids sleep in the Paynes flat all night then and get picked up after the tapas bar meets or stay till morning, either way someone would ave noticed something of the comings and goings. That would make all the tapas groups statements about the checks all lies too. Dont buy it. Having said that there are funny quirks in their statements about child checking, such as Russell checking on Matts kids on the Sunday when Matt was indoors sick and Russell saying he checked the mccann kids on sunday via the open patio door when gerry says in his statement was locked on sunday

give up
lol!

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by FH on 20.05.12 15:21

I have been abroad with 3 small children many times and I don't ever recall being in an apartment big enough to fit that number of small people/cots . Is it even feasible to get them all in the same apartment? It is usually a bit of a squash with 3. In addition the apartments were on different floors. Surely someone would have noticed them carting cots up and down, or even sleeping children up and down, and the cots would have had to be back in their own rooms by the time the cleaners came in in the morning -assuming they had a daily cleaning service. Also, A lot of children are fairly light sleepers. Is it likely they would all have gone off to sleep in the same room/apartment?

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by tigger on 20.05.12 18:10

@FH wrote:I have been abroad with 3 small children many times and I don't ever recall being in an apartment big enough to fit that number of small people/cots . Is it even feasible to get them all in the same apartment? It is usually a bit of a squash with 3. In addition the apartments were on different floors. Surely someone would have noticed them carting cots up and down, or even sleeping children up and down, and the cots would have had to be back in their own rooms by the time the cleaners came in in the morning -assuming they had a daily cleaning service. Also, A lot of children are fairly light sleepers. Is it likely they would all have gone off to sleep in the same room/apartment?

The PJ appear to have evidence and for most of the children it was probably just a few hours 'sleepover, so little ones sharing beds and so on.
Clarrie gave us one of his very special logical deductions to say this was rubbish because it was harder to get 7 children to go to sleep.
It should have been 8 children Clarence, do you know something we don't?

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Re: Room With A Tapas View

Post by jmac on 21.05.12 1:41

It`s possible that the children were left alone and the apartment was locked. It`s possible that one of the Tapas was elected to patrol the apartments and listen at windows and doors, well at least some of the time. Who knows?

In his first statement Gerry claimed that he did his check by entering the apartment with a key.

Unfortunately the jemmied shutters idea was quickly exposed as a scam. So what could they do?

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