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Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Guest on 28.11.12 13:08

The quote "all ROYALTIES donated to Madeleine's FUND" comes to mind. I'm curious too. Won't hold my breath until end of next month, but am certainly interested to see, if they make a difference between royalties and income, if you get my drift.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by PeterMac on 28.11.12 16:02

Or if they put it in at all.

Royalties on the book and the paperback might well be zero - after deducting the advance there may be nothing left. The paperback is £ 3 on Amazon. 1 p second hand
In which case what happened to the advance ? Is it shown in the accounts ?
The million, or half million, for the serialisation rights in the paper might well not have been donated to the Fund at all. It might have been passed direct to Kate.
In which case is it taxable ?
Actually, in either case is it taxable ?
As a Company the "Fund" is liable to Corporation Tax.

Verrry interesting !!
Follow the money.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by monkey mind on 28.11.12 16:17

@PeterMac wrote:Or if they put it in at all.

Royalties on the book and the paperback might well be zero - after deducting the advance there may be nothing left. The paperback is £ 3 on Amazon. 1 p second hand
In which case what happened to the advance ? Is it shown in the accounts ?
The million, or half million, for the serialisation rights in the paper might well not have been donated to the Fund at all. It might have been passed direct to Kate.
In which case is it taxable ?
Actually, in either case is it taxable ?
As a Company the "Fund" is liable to Corporation Tax.

Verrry interesting !!
Follow the money.
I must admit I've considered that very same thing Peter. The advance and the million/halfmilion for the serialisation rights ought to show up either in this years fund accounts or this years tax return. If not, why not?

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by tigger on 28.11.12 16:20

@PeterMac wrote:Or if they put it in at all.

Royalties on the book and the paperback might well be zero - after deducting the advance there may be nothing left. The paperback is £ 3 on Amazon. 1 p second hand
In which case what happened to the advance ? Is it shown in the accounts ?
The million, or half million, for the serialisation rights in the paper might well not have been donated to the Fund at all. It might have been passed direct to Kate.
In which case is it taxable ?
Actually, in either case is it taxable ?
As a Company the "Fund" is liable to Corporation Tax.

Verrry interesting !!
Follow the money.

The Advance is part of the Royalties. It is referred to as "advance on royalties" in contracts - so the advance is exactly the same as royalties.
So it should jolly well be there, along with the one million paid by Oprah Winfrey, I wonder too, what became of the film rights which were being discussed in December 07 and January 08. Even CM admitted these talks were taking place.


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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by tigger on 11.12.12 7:20

On MM I came across a post with the following extract from Enid O'Dowd's analysis (see page 1, post 1 here)
quote
When I looked at the audited accounts to see what they said about taxation I found a note 1.3 Taxation as part of the Notes to the Financial Statements in accounts 2008, 2009 and 2010 which read:

'The company remains accountable for taxation liabilities arising from capital gains, interest, trading activities and any other surplus other than from donations received'

In the accounts to 31 March 2008, there is a surplus of £1,064,489 before taxation but the corporation tax payable per the accounts is only £12,462. This is because most of the income for that period was from donations.

Note 1.2 Income. The 2008, 2009 and 2010 accounts all state –

'Income comprises donations received by the company along with revenue recognised in respect of merchandise supplied, exclusive of VAT.'

But in the 2011 accounts the heading Income changes to Turnover and the note reads –

'Turnover comprises revenue recognised by the company in respect of goods and services supplied by the company, exclusive of Value Added Tax and trade discounts.'

Why has the word donations been deleted?
unquote

My question is: why were donations not taxed? This is a limited company, not a charity. I thought that donations will be taxed just the same as other income.
Is there an accountant in the house?

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by tigger on 11.12.12 7:35

From the official FindMadeline site:

quote

(3) Why is Madeleine's Fund not registered as a charity?

Because Madeleine's Fund is currently focussed on searching for one child only, Madeleine McCann it cannot register as a charity. However in the future, if the objects of the fund are fulfilled and subsequently changed to concentrate on multiple similar cases, it may then be possible to acquire charitable status.
unquote

Here are relevant passages from the O'Dowd report:


So if the Fund, set up in record time and presumably at considerable expense, was to find Madeleine, why did it, as Kate herself tells us, do very little for the first four months of its existence other than to collect money and follow up the odd piece of information outside Portugal?

[...]

A Freedom of Information (FOI) request to the Charity Commission revealed several emails, telephone calls and a telephone conference between BWB and the Charity Commission about the possibility of charity status, for the then unincorporated company, between Monday afternoon May 14 and Tuesday May 15.

The minutes of the telephone conference held between BWB and the Charity Commission on the morning of Tuesday May 15 record that Alice Holt would look at revising the draft document to a form more acceptable to the Commission. The minutes also record that Commission official Kenneth Dibble was concerned that the press conference set for the next day might send out confused messages to the public unless it was settled what the fund could and could not be used for.

At 1.10 pm on May 15 the Charity Commission received an email from BWB saying their clients were likely to go the ordinary company route rather than pursue charity status. When that email was received Ms Holt was just finalising her promised revisions to the documents submitted to her the previous day. She sent her revised document anyway at 1.28 pm. To meet the Fund launch date of May 16, the McCanns had obviously decided to abandon the apparently hopeful charity negotiations in order to meet the deadline for same day company incorporation. Documents must be filed by 3pm for the company to be incorporated on that day.

[......] And it is clear from the documentation that the Charity Commission officials were helpful, and that it was likely that charity status could have been obtained with only minor delay with a little compromise by the McCanns.

[...]

And after they incorporated the company in 24 hours, BWB applied for British and European trade marks on 18 May 2007 and was given the reference 2456061. These trademarks protected fundraising, internet and print promotions. Again this action was unprecedented at this very early stage in a missing person case.

unquote

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Ribisl on 13.12.12 20:36

tigger wrote under another topic:
Thanks! Ribisl. I was hoping someone would put me right on the fine line between avoidance and evasion.
On that subject, do you know if donations to a Ltd. Company should be taxed? (see Fund topic) I can't find it anywhere on Google.
Any limited company incorporated in the UK is liable for Corporation Tax on its profit but not on donations. They had a large income at the start as a result of public donations which would be non-taxable and it has been offset against costs over the years. But they don’t trade, so there is no taxable profit. Having had a quick look at their annual reports and from the limited information available, it looks like they have been paying tax on interest only.

If they employ paid staff, then they would also be responsible for PAYE (a witholding tax on income) but there are many other ways of acquiring assistants without having direct employees.

Fund raising events may or may not be exempt from VAT depending on how you set them up and what rules you follow. With all the expert advice available to them, however, I have no doubt that the McCanns have been making sure of avoiding paying this kind of tax.

I am sure their company was set up and run correctly within the law and if would be highly unlikely that they would allow themselves to be open of accusations of possible fiscal fraud imo. Unless, of course, it can be proved that they did set up the fund under a false premise that their daughter was missing while knowing full well that she was already dead and buried.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by PeterMac on 13.12.12 21:14

@Ribisl wrote:Unless, of course, it can be proved that they did set up the fund under a false premise that their daughter was missing while knowing full well that she was already dead and buried.
In which case the directors, the lawyers, the accountants, the beneficiaries, the apologists . . . ?
Not to mention the Tapasniks who so generously donated their winnings, agreed damages

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Guest on 13.12.12 22:12

Not holding my breath yet, as new accounts not due until the very last deadline end of this month. But it will start [holding my breath] say 15 days from now ...

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by tigger on 14.12.12 9:09

@Ribisl wrote:tigger wrote under another topic:
Thanks! Ribisl. I was hoping someone would put me right on the fine line between avoidance and evasion.
On that subject, do you know if donations to a Ltd. Company should be taxed? (see Fund topic) I can't find it anywhere on Google.
Any limited company incorporated in the UK is liable for Corporation Tax on its profit but not on donations. They had a large income at the start as a result of public donations which would be non-taxable and it has been offset against costs over the years. But they don’t trade, so there is no taxable profit. Having had a quick look at their annual reports and from the limited information available, it looks like they have been paying tax on interest only.

If they employ paid staff, then they would also be responsible for PAYE (a witholding tax on income) but there are many other ways of acquiring assistants without having direct employees.

Fund raising events may or may not be exempt from VAT depending on how you set them up and what rules you follow. With all the expert advice available to them, however, I have no doubt that the McCanns have been making sure of avoiding paying this kind of tax.

I am sure their company was set up and run correctly within the law and if would be highly unlikely that they would allow themselves to be open of accusations of possible fiscal fraud imo. Unless, of course, it can be proved that they did set up the fund under a false premise that their daughter was missing while knowing full well that she was already dead and buried.

Thank you for that clear explanation.
I did an NVQ in business studies years ago in which this issue never arose. What did arise was the payment of national security contributions, the deductable posts and the bands of tax applied to various entries. Donation never came up as an entry. What did come up was what Ms. O'Dowd also pointed out as being tax deductable issues. She points out that one entry probably refers to the use of a room in their house as an office.
Although that isn't clear from the accounts.
However, all money earned from the sale of the books should be taxed as it is earned income? That might be the main reason why it hasn't shown up in the accounts to date. Even the advance is an advance on earned royalties and should be taxed accordingly.

It is then clear why there was little point in setting up a charity. Donations were going to be the main income and the very large donations which would not qualify for tax relief to a Ltd. Co. were imo going to come in anyway from a small group of people who would donate for reasons of their own.

The tax relief on small donations of private individuals would negligible for the people concerned. So this Fund was extremely well thought out in a very short space of time.
We might even be tempted to see what was said about the income from the book: that it would be used to search for Madeleine. I wonder if it states anywhere that the money would be paid into the Fund. There's always Jersey, off shore, Switserland.

The quality of their accountants is inversely proportional to the quality of their detectives. winkwink


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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by tigger on 07.01.13 19:31

To date the Fund accounts showing as overdue.... I hope Ms. Enid O'Dowd is standing by when they are submitted.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Guest on 08.01.13 0:06

I think there's a lot of people waiting with baited breath for the accounts! It might just be delays after the holidays - perhaps they're in a pile waiting to be processed.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 08.01.13 7:20

Well, if the book money is not in the fund, as was promised and marketed by the Mc's themselves in interviews on TV and promos etc, then that will tell the general public all they need to know about the fund, a fact that would need to be publicised far and wide IMO.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Inspectorfrost on 09.01.13 18:59

The advance for the book, sales, royalties, and all that palava, plus the sun newspaper pay out for the serialisation, all surely in the hundreds of thousands, should be in the accounts, or will the fund be operating at a loss again?

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by tigger on 10.01.13 16:32

Here are the Missing People Charity accounts for 2011 - 2012.

https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/missing-people/who-we-are/finances

Salaries have gone up this year... by 191.225,00. Nearly 200.000,- pounds.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Nina on 10.01.13 17:33

@tigger wrote:Here are the Missing People Charity accounts for 2011 - 2012.

https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/missing-people/who-we-are/finances

Salaries have gone up this year... by 191.225,00. Nearly 200.000,- pounds.

Well KH/KMcC joined them tigger.
What exactly do these people do though? I am not asking in a sarcastic way now, I just wonder what they actually do to be paid a salary for.
In the past I have been involved in raising funds for charities and it was all done on a voluntary basis, though I spent many hours, happy hours, doing it. So what do they do?

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Guest on 10.01.13 17:44

I don't think the increased wage bill is out of the ordinary because there is an overall increase of three full-time staff (page 19, note 4) and there would be increments for existing staff.

I'm not an expert by any means on company accounts but these seem to be well-presented with the "highest transparency" to coin a phrase.

Perhaps the accounts for No Stone Unturned when they eventually are filed will be of a similar high standard?

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by PeterMac on 10.01.13 17:59

The bit I love is

Activities for generating funds
Charity Shop income £ 23,321

Cost of generating Funds
Charity Shops £ 23,175
So a total profit, before other deductions and costs, of
£ 146

Brilliant management.

And even better
a quarter of a million pounds on
Policy and Research
Nice work if you can get it.

About as transparent as an average brick.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Nina on 10.01.13 18:07

@PeterMac wrote:The bit I love is

Activities for generating funds
Charity Shop income £ 23,321

Cost of generating Funds
Charity Shops £ 23,175
So a total profit, before other deductions and costs, of
£ 146

Brilliant management.

And even better
a quarter of a million pounds on
Policy and Research
Nice work if you can get it.

About as transparent as an average brick.

How very strange, what I did was help to run a charity shop of second hand books. The 'shop' was the garage of the local organizer, also she was voluntary, and all the books were donated, we had hundreds of them, and we didn't incur any expenses at all and made a lot of money for the local hospice Cudeca. All profit.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by aquila on 10.01.13 18:43

I don't remember the video or the link but we were informed that KM had given up her job as a part-time locum to concentrate on the search for Madeleine. This is absolutely no criticism of Kate but how does one just give up a job and have no income for five years? Mortgages, children, living expenses etc are all things that need attendance whether we are in good times or bad.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by monkey mind on 10.01.13 19:23

@aquila wrote:I don't remember the video or the link but we were informed that KM had given up her job as a part-time locum to concentrate on the search for Madeleine. This is absolutely no criticism of Kate but how does one just give up a job and have no income for five years? Mortgages, children, living expenses etc are all things that need attendance whether we are in good times or bad.
Aquila, I know two people who have done just that. The first lives in a cave atop a mountain on the Brecon Beacons and calls himself a breatharian, which means he doesn’t eat food at all. His sustenance comes from pulling prana or chi (energy) from the atmosphere and sungazing 6 hours a day. If the foul weather and cloud cover we’ve been having these recent months continues much longer we fear he may starve.

The other has gone the more orthodox route and is an accomplished criminal/conman.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by aquila on 10.01.13 20:18

@monkey mind wrote:
@aquila wrote:I don't remember the video or the link but we were informed that KM had given up her job as a part-time locum to concentrate on the search for Madeleine. This is absolutely no criticism of Kate but how does one just give up a job and have no income for five years? Mortgages, children, living expenses etc are all things that need attendance whether we are in good times or bad.
Aquila, I know two people who have done just that. The first lives in a cave atop a mountain on the Brecon Beacons and calls himself a breatharian, which means he doesn’t eat food at all. His sustenance comes from pulling prana or chi (energy) from the atmosphere and sungazing 6 hours a day. If the foul weather and cloud cover we’ve been having these recent months continues much longer we fear he may starve.


I hope good people have helped this breatharian with the use of a 4x4, a smallholding and at least a portfolio to fall back on should the altruistic breath turn to raspberry juice. You never know maybe there'll be enough breath to speak.


The other has gone the more orthodox route and is an accomplished criminal/conman.

This sort of person is perhaps beyond public salvation. This sort of person has too many enemies despite cultivating 'friends'.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by Inspectorfrost on 10.01.13 20:45

Some of these charities make me sick! The way they line peoples pockets, and not the people whose pockets donations are intended for
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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by monkey mind on 10.01.13 20:51

Aquila: "This sort of person is perhaps beyond public salvation. This sort of person has too many enemies despite cultivating 'friends'!

Yes!! That's him exactly! You know him don't you? Unfortunately due to a glitch that previous mail was sent before I had finished it, I was about to add....
.../politician.

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Re: Please note: the Fund is not a Charity.

Post by tigger on 11.01.13 6:03

@PeterMac wrote:The bit I love is

Activities for generating funds
Charity Shop income £ 23,321

Cost of generating Funds
Charity Shops £ 23,175
So a total profit, before other deductions and costs, of
£ 146

Brilliant management.

And even better
a quarter of a million pounds on
Policy and Research
Nice work if you can get it.

About as transparent as an average brick.

Although the bulk of the income goes on salaries, paid for by the postcode lottery apparently, it seems a lot of work is done by volunteers. No doubt manning the phone lines and running the charity shop. So one wonders what else there is to do apart from running the 'office'.

I would also like to see a breakdown of the number of people permanently returned to their families as it seems a large number of 'missing people' , once found, leave home again at the earliest opportunity.
The statistics I've seen on another occasion - that over a hundred thousand people go missing each year - don't impress me. Over a ten year period that means at least a million people have gone missing. So how exactly does that work?



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