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***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Zozo on 25.04.12 21:51

@littlepixie wrote:
@OpenMind wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:On the other hand ...
for at least the first half of the programme
Dog video... shown to the world
interim report detailing M. Dead in the apartment, Simulation of abduction, Parents involved ... shown to the world
Portuguese Police opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Portuguese Public opinion that she is dead ... shown to the world
Murat set up ... shown to the world
Political interference... shown to the world
Murdoch's interference....shown to the world

And the reporter himself used the M word "MYSTERY" (C-R take note) direct to Redwood, who did not disagree. Also to TB, please note. Mystery is NOT libellous.

So far as I can remember, without replaying it, Redwood did not say he believed she was alive. (subject to correction on that one, obviously )
For me as an ex- .... he really had no choice but to make fairly banal and anodyne statements, and all in all did fairly well in saying nothing much.
Which is not only what I expected, but what I hoped !

Shall re-watch and make more notes. More later.

Oh I agree completely, it was far more exposing and explicit than I was expecting, hopeful many more sceptics out there now

I agree with you two. I am optimistic

I'm sorry to say that for me i don't agree with you. Because the points you are quoting above, most of them were known in public. And the way it was shown was kind brush over those point and after to put all the failure and the blame to the portuguese police.
Even the way they have introduced Amaral comments its revealing itself. just to put all the failure of investigations in the portuguese side. But no way, they 've talked about the inconsistencies in the T9 statements or many other crucial evidences in the case pointing to the mccanns or their lack of coperation.
For me, this program it was very well orchestrated to manipulate the british public opinions about this case, to push even more the blame to the portuguese police and to make it a gift to the Mccanns especial for this soon 5th anniversairy of the disappearance of their daughter.

As i said before, i think this all circus seems to prepare the public opinion what is coming soon!!!!

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 21:54

Here's the BBC i-player link for those in the U K.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01h9136/Panorama_Madeleine_The_Last_Hope/

I think that it will be available from tomorrow - it isn't at the moment.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by HiDeHo on 25.04.12 21:57

[quote="candyfloss"]They did at least put up details of the intercalary report from Inspector Tavares de Almeida I think which I was shocked to see...........
I think it was that anyway. Will have to check when HdeH posts video.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2103-intercalary-report-by-chief-inspector-tavares-de-almeida-illustrated[/quote]

57 mins left for downloading then prob another half hour or more to upload to Youtube..but...its coming along!

Lets not forget...the power of Youtube...(and subsequently Twitter)

Snippets that need addressing...can be addressed in a 'McMinute' video!

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 22:00

I can imagine Mr Amaral would never have appeared for the programme if he knew he was going to be portrayed in the way he was. I'm sure he gave a much longer interview putting across some good points, and admitting some mistakes, and most of it was probably on the cutting room floor. He would have been better to have declined the invitation to appear, he must have known they would do a hatchet job on him. From what they tried to portray, he made money out of a missing child, (£300,000), and he made mistakes,

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 22:03

reports Sky News 2 tabloid front pages....... maddie she is alive.

Just to prove what a load of tripe the media are. How can the Yard possibly know that and if they do when are they going to bring her home? SY have said no such thing. French paper I quoted earlier quotes Redwood saying there is a shed load of docs still needing translation!
One journo saying that there is rivalry between British and Portuguese police.
Other criticising the Express rather than other tabloid for that headline as that paper should know better due to Leveson.

One thing puzzling me...it was not in Panorama but have seen a video clip where Redwood talks of stranger abduction.
Now why was that not included in Panorama?

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 22:07

@russiandoll wrote: reports Sky News 2 tabloid front pages....... maddie she is alive.

Just to prove what a load of tripe the media are. How can the Yard possibly know that and if they do when are they going to bring her home? SY have said no such thing. French paper I quoted earlier quotes Redwood saying there is a shed load of docs still needing translation!
One journo saying that there is rivalry between British and Portuguese police.
Other criticising the Express rather than other tabloid for that headline as that paper should know better due to Leveson.

One thing puzzling me...it was not in Panorama but have seen a video clip where Redwood talks of stranger abduction.
Now why was that not included in Panorama?

I think that was the ITV interview made later than the Panorama programme. Every interview that appears, he seems to be adding more and more....... Yet they talked about keeping this review under wraps.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Zozo on 25.04.12 22:17

candyfloss wrote:I can imagine Mr Amaral would never have appeared for the programme if he knew he was going to be portrayed in the way he was. I'm sure he gave a much longer interview putting across some good points, and admitting some mistakes, and most of it was probably on the cutting room floor. He would have been better to have declined the invitation to appear, he must have known they would do a hatchet job on him. From what they tried to portray, he made money out of a missing child, (£300,000), and he made mistakes,

Totally agree with you that "Amaral must have known better...", because its not the first time they try to exploite his sayings in negatif way, therefore using them against him.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by juliet on 25.04.12 22:18

The whole thing was a farce. But most people will feel sure that it just reinforces the old propaganda that the Portuguese are useless bunglers and the McCanns are innocent of the death/disappearance of their child.

It was all too obvious when Bilton said: "The dogs found DNA in the apartment and car...which led to the parents named as suspects."

He obviously said what he was told - "Look, you know and I know the dogs found the scent of a dead body and spots of blood. But just say it was DNA because most of the plebs won't know any better, OK?"

And dear old Bilton said: "Yes, whatever you say, sir. Just as long as I get a few jobs away from the BBC North West graveyard."

What is loathsome about Bilton is he did the Panorama programme five years ago.

He must have known more than most about the lies of the parents and why their friends ran in circles to keep them sweet.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 22:20

dont know where to post this.....

from Guardian newspaper Madeleine McCann could be living with abductor, says Scotland Yard

Yard releases image of how Madeleine may look five years on and asks Portuguese police to reopen inquiry


Sandra Laville, crime correspondent
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 25 April 2012 19.19 BST
Article history

Madeleine McCann pictured before her disappearance in May 2007, and the computer-generated image of how she might look now, aged nearly nine. Scotland Yard says she could be living with her abductor. Photograph: Teri Blythe/Met Police/PA
Scotland Yard detectives released a picture of what Madeleine McCann may look like today as they said they had uncovered new information to suggest she could be alive and living with her abductor.

The senior officer leading an investigative review into the disappearance of Madeleine five years ago is calling on Portuguese police to reopen their inquiry into the case.

Releasing an age-enhanced image of Madeleine – as she nears her ninth birthday on 12 May – Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, of Scotland Yard's homicide and serious crime command, said: "We genuinely believe there's a possibility that she is alive. I want to make a direct appeal. If you know where Madeleine McCann is or if you have any direct information or evidence about what happened to her, then please make contact."

Redwood and his 37-strong team have identified 195 missed investigative opportunities in the 40,000 pieces of evidence they have examined from the Portuguese inquiry, the family's home force in Leicestershire, and the information gleaned by a team of private detectives hired by the McCann family since Madeleine went missing, aged three, from the resort of Praia de Luz on 3 May 2007.

"We are in a unique position seeking to draw together the three key strands of information about her disappearance," said Redwood.

He unequivocally dismissed the conspiracy theory – promoted by the original Portuguese lead detective Goncalo Amaral – that Madeleine's parents had anything to do with her disappearance.

He said detectives believe Madeleine was abducted in "a criminal act by a stranger".

Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, worked closely with the Met to produce the new image of their daughter.

"Kate says she can see Madeleine's brother and sister Sean and Amelie in it as well as something of herself," said the family's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell. She and Gerry feel very positive and they hope it leads to the breakthrough they have been waiting for."

Redwood's team is sifting page by page through 100,000 documents within the 40,000 pieces of evidence, and are a quarter of the way through the exercise. They are working closely with a team of Portuguese detectives and liaising with law enforcement agencies across Europe and the world when necessary.

They are developing what they believe is "genuinely new information" in the hunt for the child. It is understood, though, that this is not based on any new possible sightings. The team is also pursuing the line of inquiry that after five years Madeleine might be dead.

It is understood that key areas being investigated by Scotland Yard – which the Portuguese police failed to pursue – include analysis of a huge amount of mobile phone cell site evidence that was gathered but never analysed. That evidence could help to trace any suspects who were around the resort.

They are also attempting for the first time to contact all the holidaymakers who were staying around the area of the Mark Warner Ocean club complex between 28 April and 3 May 2007, when Madeleine disappeared from her room while her parents were eating dinner with friends at a nearby tapas bar.

Officers are also focusing on any men in the area with criminal convictions that might indicate they are a danger to children, and investigating the backgrounds of resort staff, including examining whether any had suffered the loss of a child.

Commander Simon Foy, Scotland Yard's head of homicide command, said they would not stop until they discovered what had happened to Madeleine.
The review inquiry – which has cost £2m to date – began after the McCanns appealed last year to David Cameron for Scotland Yard to investigate the case.

There are examples of children who have been abducted only to be found alive years later: Jaycee Lee Dugard was found alive 18 years after being snatched at the age of 11 from a bus stop in California; the Austrian schoolgirl Natascha Kampusch was found in 2006, eight years after being abducted aged 10; and Shawn Hornbeck, who disappeared aged 12 in 2002, was found four years later.

The decision on whether to reopen the inquiry in Portugal is in the hands of the country's attorney general. He has said he will only reopen the investigation if "new, serious and relevant evidence emerges". He was not available for comment.

Redwood said the police review team in Portugal were keen for this to happen. "[They] want to reopen the case … They are a new group of investigators and they are completely engaged and totally committed."

Jim Gamble, former head of the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection unit, said the hunt for Madeleine had now been reignited. "The person who's done it knows they have done it," said Gamble. "They will be paranoid, and it is likely that someone close to them will see that paranoia, or that as the pressure builds someone close to them who knows they have done it, and who is no longer a friend, might come forward.

"One thing is sure: the person who did this will be watching and listening."

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 22:24

As I just said earlier, a little bit more in every interview,

Scotland Yard detectives released a picture of what Madeleine McCann may look like today as they said they had uncovered new information to suggest she could be alive and living with her abductor.

If they know she is alive and living with an abductor, from new evidence, why haven't they rescued her? And should they be telling the whole world about this, because if it is correct, surely the abductor will panic and run or even harm her.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 22:26

Jim Gamble, former head of the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection unit, said the hunt for Madeleine had now been reignited. "The person who's done it knows they have done it," said Gamble. "They will be paranoid, and it is likely that someone close to them will see that paranoia, or that as the pressure builds someone close to them who knows they have done it, and who is no longer a friend, might come forward.

"One thing is sure: the person who did this will be watching and listening."


Paranoid, watching and listening, talk about putting a child in danger!!!

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 22:37

sorry candyfloss I posted the entire article as you were posting yours!
what on earth is going on........they are discussing operational issues and conclusions with thousands of pages of untranslated files to get through. nailing their colours to the mast here......I feel so confused now about what is happening.
Surely the PJ would have done this work in the early stages? Are the Met implying that they have work to do that was not done years ago...all the basics?

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 22:45

@russiandoll wrote: sorry candyfloss I posted the entire article as you were posting yours!
what on earth is going on........they are discussing operational issues and conclusions with thousands of pages of untranslated files to get through. nailing their colours to the mast here......I feel so confused now about what is happening.
Surely the PJ would have done this work in the early stages? Are the Met implying that they have work to do that was not done years ago...all the basics?

Nothing to be sorry for russiandoll, I didn't post the article, I was just quoting bits from yours thumbsup Thank you for posting it. Giving far too much information out now imo, it is simply not professional, and if Madeleine is out there, could be putting her in danger.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by uppatoffee on 25.04.12 22:45

candyfloss wrote:Jim Gamble, former head of the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection unit, said the hunt for Madeleine had now been reignited. "The person who's done it knows they have done it," said Gamble. "They will be paranoid, and it is likely that someone close to them will see that paranoia, or that as the pressure builds someone close to them who knows they have done it, and who is no longer a friend, might come forward.

"One thing is sure: the person who did this will be watching and listening."


Paranoid, watching and listening, talk about putting a child in danger!!!

I cannot believe that if SY seriously believe that Madeleine is alive then they would have created such a furore by taking part in this show, as is someone had taken her they would certainly be panicking now. People who panic do irrational things. Not good.

However, if they are wanting to make some people relax more, perhaps so they let their guard down, then this is a way to go about it. I think that there are a number of reasons to feel positive about tonight's programme. In the minds of a largely supportive British public it must have raised alarm bells. There must be some reason why Portuguese public opinion is so convinced the McCanns are guilty. Showing the dogs alerting - I imagine lots of people never knew anything about the cadaver dogs, so will lead to more Internet searches to find out more. I also agree that Redwood gave nothing away. Even Bilton standing outside the apartment asked what really happened, makes people think there is more to it... flag

Yes there was always going to be a great deal of support in this programme for the McCanns, but I did not think they got it all their own way. I am still hopeful. I was also surprised didn't make an appearance!

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Corrupt BBC

Post by juliet on 25.04.12 22:46

I feel sick that the British establishment doesn't even bother to cover up corruption any more.


But useful, ambitious idiots like Richard Bilton, Lorraine Kelly, Fiona Phillips etc are used to keep convincing the public to support the "poor parents".

It is sickening that Bilton now corrupts the facts so that what the expert dogs found becomes, in his weasel lying words, not "scent of a dead body" but the meaningless term "DNA".

The BBC obviously told him waht to say, and he jumped...


Have deleted one sentence Juliet, which you stated as fact, and we need to be cautious in what we say and how we say it.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 22:47

uppatoffee... agree with all you say.but how to factor in the statements in the Guardian?

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 22:50

t is sickening that Bilton now corrupts the facts so that what the expert dogs found becomes, in his weasel lying words, not "scent of a dead body" but the meaningless term "DNA".

yes juliet but the police have the reports on the dogs findings and dont have panoramas agenda..I hope

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~John F. Kennedy


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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by tuom on 25.04.12 23:07

Irish TV3 news just on reporting that MMC may still be alive , new picture of her then picture of Sad KM etc etc etc etc

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by juliet on 25.04.12 23:07

Yes, but Bilton is obviously told what to say...and the police are too in this case.

I fear that the McCanns have won. They are laughing their horrible faces off....

This TV programmre was more than a whitewash. It was a smack in the face for everyone who wants to know why that poor neglected child has now disappeared off the face of the earth.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by PeterMac on 25.04.12 23:07

candyfloss wrote:Jim Gamble, former head of the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection unit, said the hunt for Madeleine had now been reignited. "The person who's done it knows they have done it," said Gamble. "They will be paranoid, and it is likely that someone close to them will see that paranoia, or that as the pressure builds someone close to them who knows they have done it, and who is no longer a friend, might come forward.
"One thing is sure: the person who did this will be watching and listening."

Paranoid, watching and listening, talk about putting a child in danger!!!

She's dead.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by tuom on 25.04.12 23:10

@PeterMac wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Jim Gamble, former head of the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection unit, said the hunt for Madeleine had now been reignited. "The person who's done it knows they have done it," said Gamble. "They will be paranoid, and it is likely that someone close to them will see that paranoia, or that as the pressure builds someone close to them who knows they have done it, and who is no longer a friend, might come forward.
"One thing is sure: the person who did this will be watching and listening."

Paranoid, watching and listening, talk about putting a child in danger!!!

She's dead.



With the utmost respect to the child but

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by monkey mind on 25.04.12 23:10

Interesting how they foolishly tried to portray the PJ as a bumbling bunch of amateurs, the European Keystone cops.

Well, if after a whole year, Mr Redwood and his team of ace detectives have only managed to go through 25% of the entire evidence available, the PJ can't have been that hit and miss now eh?

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 23:15

@tuom wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Jim Gamble, former head of the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection unit, said the hunt for Madeleine had now been reignited. "The person who's done it knows they have done it," said Gamble. "They will be paranoid, and it is likely that someone close to them will see that paranoia, or that as the pressure builds someone close to them who knows they have done it, and who is no longer a friend, might come forward.
"One thing is sure: the person who did this will be watching and listening."

Paranoid, watching and listening, talk about putting a child in danger!!!

She's dead.



With the utmost respect to the child but

I did say a child, meaning what a thing to say about any missing child, it would immediately put them in danger.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by PeterMac on 25.04.12 23:17

We also learned ...

The PJ in Oporto have been reviewing this for a year.
Not a lot of people knew 'dat !! ( cockney accent important !)

And they have not closed it down as a hopeless cause, nor a waste of money!!

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