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***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Newintown on 25.04.12 20:32

@david_uk wrote:
@juliet wrote:The whole thing was designed to slag off the Portuguese police, and to pretend only the Portuguese believed the parents were respeonsible for Madeleine's disappearance.



I cannot believe that Bilton, the hopeless patsy, said "Dogs found DNA in the apartment...." wilfully refusing to use the words "scent of a dead body."

The whole thing was so incredibly crass and clumsy.

Who is behind it?



Yep! hopefully this will be seen by the PJ and there resolve will be stronger than ever!. They should re-open case and say! ok ! we say you did it! mccanns and issue Euro arrest warrant, that would be justice

You beat me to it, I was just about to post the same thing, that hopefully the PJ will be so pi**ed off with this that they will reopen the case and go in with all guns blazing if they're sticking to their belief that Madeleine died in the apartment, hopefully many arrests will follow pdq.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by juliet on 25.04.12 20:32

Petermac, there is nothing good to be taken from this terrible, propaganda-laden programme.

All anyone who hasn't studied the Mcanns will think is: "Yeah, rotten Portuguese police. They messed up from the start...what a disgrace (Alan Johnson says so). See, Amaral has made loads of money, and even that weirdo Murat claims Amaral didn't care about the truth."

Nothing about the Tapas mob, who tried to finger Amaral as kidnapper/murderer. But then, Murat has been paid off.

And maybe Panorama edited Sandra F badly, but even she seemed to be slagging off the Portuguese and the Portuguese police. Plus there was Isabel Duarte suffering for her art as all her friends "thought the McCanns had killed their daughter and got rid of her corpse." As if that thought was wildly far-fetched...

This was an incredibly cynical programme: I can imagine Cameron: "The plebs are getting pissed off about millions being spent on the McCann case, while we don't seem to care about Ben Needham (or any other missing child including that little girl in the German supermarket).

"Someone throw them a bone. Get that useless Bilton to slag off the Portuguese and get them riled up against Johnny Foreigner. That will shut them up while we spend a bit more whitewashing the Mccanns."

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Ashwarya on 25.04.12 20:36

Utterly rubbish programme - I had an inescapable sense of deja vu almost all the way through. But I am much more encouraged now than after reading all the spin in the papers - no wonder the appalling Mitchell was looking so smug, the journos did all his work for him. Redwood didn't really say anything, but was not prepared to comment on the PJ's work - quite right too, and that suggests to me that they are colleagues working towards the same goal. He seems to want the case re-opened - so do we, and we know who doesn't want that or they would have asked for it. Sandra Felgueiras seems to be unrecognisable from her former sceptical self. I would imagine the comments from Robert Murat were highly selectively edited - how could he have forgotten who was responsible for the PJ suspecting him in the first place? The whole programme was clearly a McCann-Mitchell production - how could such a short programme need so much padding? I believe everything is still on course, although I can't see what the purpose of the programme was at all. As far Alan Johnson, what can I say? Yesterday's man, who cares what he thinks? He is hardly the sharpest tool in the box anyway. The current Home Secretary was certainly not putting in an appearance. All in all, not much to worry about if we are just going by that waste of 30 minutes - lets wait to hear what Blacksmith and Dr Martin Roberts think when we next have the privilege of hearing from them.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 20:38

Bilton said Mr Amaral made £300,000 from his book, he didn't mention all his assests were frozen though.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 20:39

I agree with Peter Mac's post.
I liked Redwood not rising to the bait when Bilton wanted a comment on the PJ near the end. I had the impression Redwood figured Bilton's angle and was not playing ball.
It was edited from the perspective of an agenda and Sandra F probably said an awful lot more. Redwood was pretty clear he wants the case reopening.
The DNA bit made me mad though, inaccurate reporting and silly as Bilton had mentioned or was going to, the police's conclusions of death and a sniffer dog smelling cadaver was part of that scenario..
Not once was there talk from Redwood of solving the mystery in terms of finding Madeleine, and Bilton stood gazing at 5a at one point and said " so many questions " I think that's what I heard..how true that is. There was no time in 30 minutes to discuss any of the glaring red flags, I did not expect that, and of course there are CR to be wary of.
I fully expected xenophobia from Bilton, but I did not hear Redwood giving any clue that he is anything but determined to find what happened to Madeleine McCann and wants to help the Portuguese authorities to do just that.



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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Upsy Daisy on 25.04.12 20:40


Upsy Daisy wrote:I
cannot believe what I have just seen..... I think my blood pressure is
through the roof now........ How offensive towards the Portuguese, tis
as if this 'bungled cops' image is never going to go away.........

I would think Goncalo Amaral and Sandra Felgueiras feel betrayed the way their comments were edited to fit the agenda.

absolutely ! I felt sad that Goncalo's few minutes were taken out of context and that he wasn't able to continue his sentence with 'however.....'. So unfair! He looked quite nervous answering to that reporter about making money out of the book...yet not too much longer after that they are showing clips and snippits about Kate's best-seller and constant newspaper extravaganza pieces..... un..be...liev...able !!! I really hope that some sort of retort is forthcoming from the Portuguese Shocked

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 20:41

Did I hear right that News International paid £1 million pounds into the fund?

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Cristobell on 25.04.12 20:42

candyfloss wrote:Did I hear right that News International paid £1 million pounds into the fund?



I thought I heard that too!

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 20:43

"All anyone who hasn't studied the Mcanns will think is: "Yeah, rotten Portuguese police. They messed up from the start...what a disgrace (Alan Johnson says so). See, Amaral has made loads of money, and even that weirdo Murat claims Amaral didn't care about the truth."

who cares what the ignorant public think or believe? What matters is that 2 police forces collaborate, investigate thoroughly and solve this case.Justice for the little one is all that matters.
And the media pressure is very interesting imo

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by tiny on 25.04.12 20:43

candyfloss wrote:Bilton said Mr Amaral made £300,000 from his book, he didn't mention all his assests were frozen though.

Wonder why bilton didnt say how much money the mccanns have made out of Madeleine.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 20:44

@Cristobell wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Did I hear right that News International paid £1 million pounds into the fund?



I thought I heard that too!

I think that is what Bilton said a reported 1 million pounds. Weren't we told it was £200,000 originally?

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by HiDeHo on 25.04.12 20:44

Recorded, converted and just putting the hundreds of clips together...

Trouble is, I am held up!...All my friends/family here in Canada are texting me to tell me shes alive! lol

Won't be long.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 20:46

From Pat Brown......


PAT BROWN‏@ProfilerPatBReply


Doubts about Madeleine" Profiler Pat Brown's CTV interview on the UK investigation. (scroll down left side). #mccann http://www.ctv.ca/newschannel/





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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 20:48

Why was the Jane Tanner sighting mentioned, but the important Smith sighting omitted?

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Upsy Daisy on 25.04.12 20:56

Why was the Jane Tanner sighting mentioned, but the important Smith sighting omitted?
..

yes candyfloss, I was shouting at the TV when they got off the easyjet flight 'right so, where's mention of the smith sighting..about now please...' and of course, nothing!

Poor Goncalo, no mention of his family and life being totally torn apart, his years of work sent down the pan, the McScams sueing everyone left right and centre and spending money out of the fund on this that and the other and very little on searching! Petermac is right though, at least SOME attention was drawn to some info that has not necessarily been out there. Even an idiot can surely put two and two together and realise that there has got to be something not right about this case and try to research more. However, Juliet I think said, that on the whole, people will just continue to fall for the 'bad portuguese cops' victimising the poor McCanns with their bungled investigation without ever taking the time to try to get inside the info that is out there and have a proper think about it.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by WOODWARD on 25.04.12 20:57

Fawned over by everyone ,including all the participants at Leveson , terminally lazy MP,s on the CMS select committee and spoken to in a reverent whisper by sofa sitting daytime TV presenters. Declared innocent and supported by three Prime Ministers ,every Home Secretary since Jackie Smith and every newspaper editor in the land and yet they still feel the need for another bucket of whitewash. All I see is fear of discovery and final confirmation that there is a much bigger secret than one tragic accident befalling one poor little girl amongst a group of cruelly neglected children. This extraordinary effort involving a state sponsored TV channels erstwhile flagship documentary programme looks desperate because its such a clumsy and obvious attempt to stitch -up Portugal and its police force. Somebody is panicking and whoever it is just made a massive error. IMO

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by russiandoll on 25.04.12 20:59

from French newspaper Le Nouvel Observateur


Mes collègues (policiers) au Portugal veulent rouvrir l'affaire", affirme Andy Redwood. Mais il s'agit d'une décision appartenant aux autorités judiciaires portugaises, ajoute l'enquêteur britannique. Il précise que les 37 policiers britanniques chargés de réexaminer les éléments de l'enquête n'ont pour l'instant accompli qu'un quart de leur travail. Les enquêteurs ont environ 100.000 pages de documents à examiner, certains devant encore être traduits, ce qui pourrait encore prendre du temps.
quick translation and interesting..
My police colleagues in Portugal want to reopen the case " affirmed AR. But it is a decision for the Portuguese judicial authorities, added the British investigator. He stressed that the 37 officers in Britain tasked with reexamining the elements of the investigation have currently only done 25% of their work. The investigators have approx 100,000 pages of documents to examine, some of which are yet to be translated, which could take some time.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 21:02

I agree Woodward, there does appear to be panic. Moving the programme forward, these sudden interviews and articles, Could it be that the PJ who have been doing there own secret investigation for a year have uncovered more evidence, and are about to announce it, and could all this be trying to pre-empt it with the usual spin.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by auntiefi on 25.04.12 21:06

I havent watched yet as I'm in Scotland, but sounds like a pile of nonsence (polite version of what I want to say). Of course its the UK media so they are bound to have an airy fairy non factual editing of material - BUT surely in things like Amaral and Tony's hearings the EVIDENCE is there for all to see and cannot be denied? of am I just deluded thinking that? sorry bit off topic. offtopic

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Cristobell on 25.04.12 21:07

@juliet wrote:Petermac, there is nothing good to be taken from this terrible, propaganda-laden programme.

All anyone who hasn't studied the Mcanns will think is: "Yeah, rotten Portuguese police. They messed up from the start...what a disgrace (Alan Johnson says so). See, Amaral has made loads of money, and even that weirdo Murat claims Amaral didn't care about the truth."

Nothing about the Tapas mob, who tried to finger Amaral as kidnapper/murderer. But then, Murat has been paid off.

And maybe Panorama edited Sandra F badly, but even she seemed to be slagging off the Portuguese and the Portuguese police. Plus there was Isabel Duarte suffering for her art as all her friends "thought the McCanns had killed their daughter and got rid of her corpse." As if that thought was wildly far-fetched...

This was an incredibly cynical programme: I can imagine Cameron: "The plebs are getting pissed off about millions being spent on the McCann case, while we don't seem to care about Ben Needham (or any other missing child including that little girl in the German supermarket).

"Someone throw them a bone. Get that useless Bilton to slag off the Portuguese and get them riled up against Johnny Foreigner. That will shut them up while we spend a bit more whitewashing the Mccanns."





Agree the programme came across as TM propaganda, but have much faith in Petermac! Apart from the points he has highlighted, it may have an incendiary effect. I am guessing here, but would imagine that Portugal has inerited a pretty macho culture - are they likely to kowtow to SY? This case has the potential to start up a diplomatic incident.

In addition, GA won the last libel trial, and it looked to me as though support for him was growing. He had a number of highly credible witnesses supporting his theory. From an empirical perspective, at this stage of the entire farce, support for him should have dropped off, friends should be disassociating themselves, not coming forward to give evidence. Lets not forget that the detective who took over from GA came to the same conclusions.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by friedtomatoes on 25.04.12 21:12

@WOODWARD wrote: Fawned over by everyone ,including all the participants at Leveson , terminally lazy MP,s on the CMS select committee and spoken to in a reverent whisper by sofa sitting daytime TV presenters. Declared innocent and supported by three Prime Ministers ,every Home Secretary since Jackie Smith and every newspaper editor in the land and yet they still feel the need for another bucket of whitewash. All I see is fear of discovery and final confirmation that there is a much bigger secret than one tragic accident befalling one poor little girl amongst a group of cruelly neglected children. This extraordinary effort involving a state sponsored TV channels erstwhile flagship documentary programme looks desperate because its such a clumsy and obvious attempt to stitch -up Portugal and its police force. Somebody is panicking and whoever it is just made a massive error. IMO

well said, may they totally
fail

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SUSPECTS

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 21:23

Suspects. Not 'cooperating witnesses'.
This will stick. Forever. Worldwide.

Thanks to the good old Beeb.

So: roll up your sleeves, gang, and take them to court.

Carter Ruck can surely advise you?

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Newintown on 25.04.12 21:30

candyfloss wrote:I agree Woodward, there does appear to be panic. Moving the programme forward, these sudden interviews and articles, Could it be that the PJ who have been doing there own secret investigation for a year have uncovered more evidence, and are about to announce it, and could all this be trying to pre-empt it with the usual spin.

Even moving the programme from 8.30 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. seemed strange (I'm sure it was shown as 8.30 p.m. when I checked my TV this morning). It seems as if they were trying to beat a deadline of some sort and were pushed into putting the programme on before other evidence came out.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Cristobell on 25.04.12 21:33

Another point that occurs to me, is the fact that many, many, lawyers will have gone through this programme with a fine toothcomb. The McCanns are very litigious, and may have negotiated air time, bias time, etc, a sort of quid pro quo, I would also imagine the BBC would have needed their approval to screen it.

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Re: ***LIVE*** Discussion and comments thread BBC Panorama tonight 25th April 7.30pm

Post by Guest on 25.04.12 21:39

They did at least put up details of the intercalary report from Inspector Tavares de Almeida I think which I was shocked to see...........
I think it was that anyway. Will have to check when HdeH posts video.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2103-intercalary-report-by-chief-inspector-tavares-de-almeida-illustrated

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