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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 16:21

I think it's quite clear what I mean, sorry.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Autumn on 28.02.10 16:40

Sorry if you thought I was nit-picking but there is a difference - obviously what you meant to say was 'give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt.'

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 16:42

@Autumn wrote:Sorry if you thought I was nit-picking but there is a difference - obviously what you meant to say was 'give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt.'

No. I didn't mean to give the McCanns the benefit of the doubt at all. You obviously aren't nit picking, just misunderstanding what I was saying.


No matter how much we think that Madeleine is dead - we owe it to her not to impress that judgement on anybody else, and especially not on Madeleine. imho.

I have come up against a fair amount of abuse on this forum for refusing to write off a child. Therefore I don't consider Bunny's comment to be offensive or disgusting. I understand it completely.

People want to laugh and goad at the fact that others choose not to write off a child as dead, because they think it has something to do with keeping her parents out of court. I FIND THAT OFFENSIVE. It has F all to do with her parents. It is Madeleine that deserved not to be written off.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Autumn on 28.02.10 17:23

Nobody has laughed or goaded you and it is unfair of you to accuse others of doing so. I stand by my comments regarding Bunny's post and have every sympathy with those members who also felt her comments were disgraceful and unacceptable. Marigold is a valued member of this forum and it will be a great shame if decent posters leave because of the mindless few who seem hell bent on causing trouble. I share Marigold's concerns about the plummenting standards of decency on this forum and, like her, am rapidly approaching the stage at which I want no part of it.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 28.02.10 17:34

can someone explain to me what was so offensive about bunnys' post?

She said it was about people wishing her dead,. we have surely all seen the 'humour' on various forums, her body photoshopped into bags, the hilarity with which such things are greeted, the way that Amaral tried to convince an entire nation that there was evidence that she was dead, when there wasn't and the fact that this thesis is heralded by some as fantastic, the way that people spead forum myths that relate to her being dead, even once they have been told this is factually incorrect. These people are in essence wishing a child dead because she needs to be dead for their theories to be believable. The real question is why don't they devise a theory that fits with the known evidence rather than one that requires to ignoring of lots of evidence and the manufacture of others, evidence that requires a child to be dead.

That is truly shocking, that people can and would so such a thing, I'm at a loss to understand why pointing it out is shocking and why decent posters will leave because of this and why exactly is pointing this out, troublesome?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 17:39

@Autumn wrote:Nobody has laughed or goaded you and it is unfair of you to accuse others of doing so. I stand by my comments regarding Bunny's post and have every sympathy with those members who also felt her comments were disgraceful and unacceptable. Marigold is a valued member of this forum and it will be a great shame if decent posters leave because of the mindless few who seem hell bent on causing trouble. I share Marigold's concerns about the plummenting standards of decency on this forum and, like her, am rapidly approaching the stage at which I want no part of it.

Oh okay, I obviously imagined it.

Never been goaded. Never been banned. Never been called names.

nothing to see. move along.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 17:40

@hedge wrote:can someone explain to me what was so offensive about bunnys' post?

She said it was about people wishing her dead,. we have surely all seen the 'humour' on various forums, her body photoshopped into bags, the hilarity with which such things are greeted, the way that Amaral tried to convince an entire nation that there was evidence that she was dead, when there wasn't and the fact that this thesis is heralded by some as fantastic, the way that people spead forum myths that relate to her being dead, even once they have been told this is factually incorrect. These people are in essence wishing a child dead because she needs to be dead for their theories to be believable. The real question is why don't they devise a theory that fits with the known evidence rather than one that requires to ignoring of lots of evidence and the manufacture of others, evidence that requires a child to be dead.

That is truly shocking, that people can and would so such a thing, I'm at a loss to understand why pointing it out is shocking and why decent posters will leave because of this and why exactly is pointing this out, troublesome?

I can't. I'm a loss. It wasn't even directed at anybody.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bellatrix on 28.02.10 17:51

I always smile when I see the term "valued/respected poster" on the various forums and I always wonder to whom? Is it the people who share the same opinion?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 28.02.10 17:54

I think the non valued, non respected, non decent posters know who they are, they know at all times that any one post might be their last.

Which is nice.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Kololi on 28.02.10 18:13

Now Hedge I think that you hit the nail on the head with your comment except, unfortunately, non decent may not actually mean a poster who uses a programme to show a bag with Madeleine's head poking out the top.

Non valued and non respected does not necessarily go hand in glove with non decent - will just depend on which forum you are posting.

Take care

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Autumn on 28.02.10 18:19

@bellatrix wrote:I always smile when I see the term "valued/respected poster" on the various forums and I always wonder to whom? Is it the people who share the same opinion?


What on earth is wrong in my saying that Marigold is a valued poster - I would apply that term to most of the members here, whichever camp they are in?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 18:26

She wouldn't. She said we were all annoying her.

Anyway, The comment wasn't related to her, so ......why would it prevent anybody posting here?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 28.02.10 18:31

@marigold wrote:You should all be ashamed of yourselves, you are all a disgrace. Only Twinkle accepted how offensive it is to write that any poster here wishes Madeleine were dead. That is such a hate filled remark hiding behind a 'only being honest' excuse. The fact that you all, with the exception of Twinkle, thought it acceptable says it all.
Yes, I think the parents are involved as do thousands of others, including both Portugese and British police. Yes, she was neglected night after night. This isn't hatred it's an opinion. But for you to stoop so low as to declare that I and others wish a child dead for holding that view is so contemptible and vile that I really think I will have to leave you to your hate filled little world and find a forum where sickening remarks like this are not ignored.

I was going to let this drop, but it seems to be rumbling on so I might as well join in and say that I was surprised and upset to read this post by Marigold. I most certainly did not state that I wished Madeleine was dead, so to be told that I am a disgrace and should be ashamed of myself is somewhat uncalled for. Neither can I find any posts by anybody else who say they wish Madeleine was dead. If someone else can, I would appreciate it if they would point the post, page and time out to me as I am going dizzy keep re reading the thread.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 18:33

I'd give up Gran. It's all been taken ridiculously out of context.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 28.02.10 18:36

Essentially it was started by Kate McCanns words: "The motives of those who have tried to convince the world that Madeleine is dead, and who've disgracefully and falsely tried to implicate us in her disappearance, need to be seriously questioned."

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bunny on 28.02.10 18:39

I think the difference in Autumn you didnt pick up on marigolds post about madeleine being shoved in a blue bag with her head hanging out. Even when it was pointed out to you you still neglected to say a word about it. Thus by doing nothing finding that one acceptable and mine not. That is biased.

Treating posters who have different opinions to yours unfairly is not what I thought this forum was about. You know I would have been more than willing to edit my post as long as you had requested marigold to do the same and you had also amended your posts as well.

I have to say Im a little shocked that this has been blown out of all proportion. I just didnt think it would all still be going on today thinking


Now for the sake of this forum I think this should go to pm rather than it messing up the forum. So if you would like to pm me with your feelings on the matter.........feel free.

Justagrannynow, I would like to thank you for the way you handled my post. There are very few even handed mods these days and you have my respect for not dismissing me and taking the time to explain your opinion without threatening to ban me. Spect just a gran big grin

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 18:39

@ Hedge: I'd guess that doesn't cover people having a general natter and just choosing to presume Madeleine is dead. It would more apply to those who make a concerted and driven effort to spread the word via foundations and books etc.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 28.02.10 18:42

@vaguely1 wrote:@ Hedge: I'd guess that doesn't cover people having a general natter and just choosing to presume Madeleine is dead. It would more apply to those who make a concerted and driven effort to spread the word via foundations and books etc.

Yeah I would have thought that was obvious. Clearly everyone has the right to their own view as the likeliness that a 3 year old missing for 3 years would still be alive, it's a slim slim hope. But fearing the worst is very different to misleading others to lead them to believe there is evidence that shows she is dead and not findable.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Autumn on 28.02.10 18:47

Clearly, opinions are divided on this but I am firmly behind Marigold on this matter and fully understand her reaction to Bunny's post. There aren't hard and fast rules as to what offends people but, even if Marigold and I are the only members who felt offended and sickened by the post, that does not mean that our feelings should not be considered. Perhaps, rather than engage in back-slapping Bunny for her post, it might have been more appropriate to point out how it could easily be interpreted as an attack on those of us who believe her to be dead.

Moving on...........

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 28.02.10 18:49

Again, I thought it was clear, several members took the time to point out that the post had been utterly misunderstood, I'm not sure what else could have been done.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 28.02.10 18:59

@Autumn wrote:Clearly, opinions are divided on this but I am firmly behind Marigold on this matter and fully understand her reaction to Bunny's post. There aren't hard and fast rules as to what offends people but, even if Marigold and I are the only members who felt offended and sickened by the post, that does not mean that our feelings should not be considered. Perhaps, rather than engage in back-slapping Bunny for her post, it might have been more appropriate to point out how it could easily be interpreted as an attack on those of us who believe her to be dead.

Moving on...........

Well I hope not, because I believe to be dead too. But I wouldn't be willing to write her off on the strength of my belief. I took it to refer to those that do wish her dead.

I certainly don't feel ashamed for not rushing to condemn a post. Neither should you Autumn, or every other member of the forum.

I didn't rush to condemn Marigold when she has been rude to me in the past. I just assumed that her issues with posters who don't detest the McCanns was related to her daughters pro stance that she mentioned the other day. We all have our Joneses I guess.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 28.02.10 19:00

@vaguely1 wrote:
Well I hope not, because I believe to be dead too. [snip]

For that matter so do I.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Cath on 28.02.10 19:04

@hedge wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:
Well I hope not, because I believe to be dead too. [snip]

For that matter so do I.

FWIW The rational part of my brain thinks she's probably dead, the emotional part hopes she's still alive and can be found.
eta that's why I like what the Prosecutor's said recently, looks like he hasn't given up hope either.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Autumn on 28.02.10 19:13

@twinkle wrote:I really, honestly don't think it is about wishing her dead by anyone.
To wish a child dead for what reason? Even though the distance between the so called "pros" and "antis" may be huge, I doubt any would wish a child dead.
Bunny, I find your comment not necessary, almost like it has been made to stir up trouble.


Twinkle, I have just seen your post and thought it very sensible and thoughtful. thumbsup

Bunny, to the best of my knowledge no-one has threatened to ban you.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 28.02.10 19:18

Speaking of threats to ban, what is the system here in terms of warnings, I know in the past there was no warning system, people just could not longer log in, out of the blue like. Has this changed, is there a policy?

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