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Re: On it goes...

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 26.02.10 7:53

Well I do not get any pleasure from posting this, but I too believe Madeleine is dead. The reason I believe this has nothing whatsoever to do with Gonçalo Amaral or anybody else. Part of me still hangs on to the possibility of woke and wandered despite Kate insisting that this could not have happened.
I have been able to go to PDL and have a good look around. I have also stood where Jane Tanner says she was, at the same time in the evening, when she says she saw the abductor. I have prevailed upon my husband to walk along the road the abductor is said to have walked along, and hand on heart, I do not believe Jane Tanner could have seen pinky aspect pyjamas with a white pattern. In one of her statements she casts doubt on the colour of the abductors trousers because of the effect of the street lighting, yet she can describe much smaller details with certainty, as she did in the Panorama interview as well as her statements. This, combined with the lack of clarity as to the checking visits and how they tie in with the statement of Mrs Fenn, plus the lack of any evidence of an abductor in the apartment and the possibility of a cadaver having been in 5A, I have to say that I honestly believe the holiday group are not being honest about what happened to Madeleine.
It is a combination of factors which leave me puzzled, but has nothing to do with hatred for anybody, or certainty that I am right. More a feeling that something is being covered up.
If Madeleine turned up alive tomorrow I would be over the moon, but I do not think that is going to happen. Sorry.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 26.02.10 8:15

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:Well I do not get any pleasure from posting this, but I too believe Madeleine is dead. The reason I believe this has nothing whatsoever to do with Gonçalo Amaral or anybody else. Part of me still hangs on to the possibility of woke and wandered despite Kate insisting that this could not have happened.
I have been able to go to PDL and have a good look around. I have also stood where Jane Tanner says she was, at the same time in the evening, when she says she saw the abductor. I have prevailed upon my husband to walk along the road the abductor is said to have walked along, and hand on heart, I do not believe Jane Tanner could have seen pinky aspect pyjamas with a white pattern. In one of her statements she casts doubt on the colour of the abductors trousers because of the effect of the street lighting, yet she can describe much smaller details with certainty, as she did in the Panorama interview as well as her statements. This, combined with the lack of clarity as to the checking visits and how they tie in with the statement of Mrs Fenn, plus the lack of any evidence of an abductor in the apartment and the possibility of a cadaver having been in 5A, I have to say that I honestly believe the holiday group are not being honest about what happened to Madeleine.
It is a combination of factors which leave me puzzled, but has nothing to do with hatred for anybody, or certainty that I am right. More a feeling that something is being covered up.
If Madeleine turned up alive tomorrow I would be over the moon, but I do not think that is going to happen. Sorry.


But Gran, you don't score forum currency by making jokes about her in order to try and make her parents look worse. I have a feeling you didn't post up photos of Gerry having sex with a childs soft toy, or pictures of Kate superimposed on to a topless model etc on the 'satire' thread at 3A. And I never get the feeling from your posts that wanting to see the parents suffer is more important than the truth, or that you would stand outside court and cheer on a police officer just because he is against the McCanns.

There are definitely a few posters who have their priorities skewed - in both directions. It's futile to argue otherwise.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bunny on 26.02.10 9:31

It's not about you thinking she may be dead Gran....it's about some (not all) seemingly happy to post the most awful comments and seemingly getting kicks out of it.

There of course is a possibility that Madeleine is dead, no one denies that. It's the posts, the way they are worded, the God awful way some seem to take delight and the most awful scenarios. Grans yours above doenst seem to be in that category.

You must know what I am saying? no ?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 26.02.10 9:43

Thanks bunny and vaguely, that is reassuring as I have always tried to be objective, but sometimes it is the extremists from either side who IMO cause the arguments and disruption. In fact, I can remember on the qwertystew forum actually sticking up for Jane Tanner and explaining how it was possible for her to walk to her apartment without being able to see the window of apartment5A.
At the end of the day a small child has disappeared and there are more questions than answers as to what has happened to her. I hope I never feel persuaded to turn that tragedy into a joke or an exercise in some personal war on a forum. Thankfully, there are more posters who are interested in the truth, whatever that turns out to be.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 26.02.10 9:45

group hug big grin

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Re: On it goes...

Post by justagrannynow 1 on 26.02.10 9:52

I was going to edit my post and then saw vaguely had responded. I am now wondering what I have missed. Never went to the satirical thread on the 3As. Had a quick peep and decided it wasn't for me, although I did see ? Beowulfs girlfriend cuddling up to a camels genitals on Reflections forum, so my education has not completely missed out !!!! :yahoo:

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 26.02.10 10:31

@justagrannynow 1 wrote:Thanks bunny and vaguely, that is reassuring as I have always tried to be objective, but sometimes it is the extremists from either side who IMO cause the arguments and disruption. In fact, I can remember on the qwertystew forum actually sticking up for Jane Tanner and explaining how it was possible for her to walk to her apartment without being able to see the window of apartment5A.
At the end of the day a small child has disappeared and there are more questions than answers as to what has happened to her. I hope I never feel persuaded to turn that tragedy into a joke or an exercise in some personal war on a forum. Thankfully, there are more posters who are interested in the truth, whatever that turns out to be.

I don't think there are more posters who are interested in the truth sadly, having seen the numbers those who still post viciferously about the case tend to have an agenda to push. I think there are more people interested in the truth, thankfully and the huge majority of them would not consider posting on a forum about a missing child or for slating her parents, it just wouldn't occur.

Those that do post are skewed, imo towards parent bashing which makes sense really there are far more forums dedicated to discussing Diana being murdered than there are that talk about how sad it is she died in a car crash, there are more forums dedicated to talking about how America blew up the twin Towers as part of some conspiracy than there are forums to talk about how awful it is that the towers fell as part of a terrorist act and so many died. It's just the nature of the internet.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Cath on 26.02.10 11:02

"It's just the nature of the internet."

No, I think it's the nature of people, posters.
I think it's the same reason why there's so many tabloids and so few good quality newspapers, with investigative journalists. They write for an audience and there's apparently more people who love to read the spectacular stories "Parents hide her body".

What motivates people to promote or hang on to myths, even after they got debunked?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bunnie1 on 26.02.10 12:00

Isn't it fact that ones memory of events tends to be slightly embellished or filled if in thinking back way after the event? I see no reason for Tanner to lie in the main, about what she saw. She would have known that you cannot make a statement like that and not have to back it up. Why would she put herself through that if she had not seen anything?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by marigold on 26.02.10 12:07

You should all be ashamed of yourselves, you are all a disgrace. Only Twinkle accepted how offensive it is to write that any poster here wishes Madeleine were dead. That is such a hate filled remark hiding behind a 'only being honest' excuse. The fact that you all, with the exception of Twinkle, thought it acceptable says it all.
Yes, I think the parents are involved as do thousands of others, including both Portugese and British police. Yes, she was neglected night after night. This isn't hatred it's an opinion. But for you to stoop so low as to declare that I and others wish a child dead for holding that view is so contemptible and vile that I really think I will have to leave you to your hate filled little world and find a forum where sickening remarks like this are not ignored.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bunnie1 on 26.02.10 12:10

Sorry,you've lost me.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Cath on 26.02.10 12:26

Me too :scratch:

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bellatrix on 26.02.10 12:27

Good luck with that as all the forums are hate filled be it directed at the McCanna,Amaral or each other.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Kololi on 26.02.10 23:42

@bunny wrote:Kololi, your comments about the likelihood of her being alive is not what I was referring to. Those I can totally understand. Thats simply logical. It's the posters that right her off not for the reasons you stated but for their overwhelming hatred of wanting to see her parents suffer even further.

Yours is logical, theirs is personal.

By posting that she is dead without doubt... they are effecting the search for her even the Portuguese judge agreed with that.

Apologies Bunny.

That was sort of what I meant. I admire people who can hold faith for longer than I can but see no need to complain about Kate's cardigan and wonder if by being so trivial people have not a real care for the child because they have allowed the hatred in them for Mr and Mrs McCann to overtake everything.

Take care

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Re: On it goes...

Post by twinkle on 27.02.10 0:07

I do agree that the fora have always been extremely vicious in their nature.
Maybe the need or each side to prove they are right in their views has somehow clouded the issue.
It would be very sad to think that the need for victory over the opposing side has become more important than anything else.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Pascal on 27.02.10 0:46

Excellent post Twinkle. thumbsup

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Autumn on 27.02.10 3:57

@bunny wrote:Imo Kololi, I think its more about wishing her dead. Not you but others.

Bunny, please refrain from using this forum to provoke and attack other members. How dare you come here and accuse 'others' of 'wishing her dead'. If, as your vindictive post would indicate, you don't want to participate in reasoned and civilized debate, I suggest that you take your vile allegations elsewhere.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by vaguely1 on 27.02.10 8:22

Autumn I totally agree that Jill's forum should not be used for attacking other memebers or provoking or attacking. Also it is not a place for vindictive posts - and civilised debate should be encouraged.

I wonder if it would be possible to make a polite request, now that you are moderating that comments such as the ones below will also now desist?

thank you flower


McCann Fanclub have been very busy propping up the pedastal on which they have placed the king and queen of Rothley.

No point in wasting time responding to people who, for whatever reasons, are totally blinkered to anything which may put their idols in a less than saintly light.

Perhaps they are paid to post such drivel,

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bunny on 27.02.10 9:22

Autumn, I would hope that you will be also posting that same message then to other posters who post comments about the blue bag and Madeleines head hanging out of it? and also the author of the post above that Vaguely posted.

E.T.A. Justagrannynow answered my post, clearly concisely and didnt take offense or feel the need to moderate either. She responded with her opinion politely and knew full well I was not being provacative...thus the need for no moderation. I saw that as even handed and fair. However, your moderation seems to be a little one sided. Maybe a pm would be in order Autumn?

I think you are confusing my post with Marigolds about not wanting to post here.

Thanks

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Re: On it goes...

Post by Kololi on 27.02.10 9:36

@Autumn wrote:
@bunny wrote:Imo Kololi, I think its more about wishing her dead. Not you but others.

Bunny, please refrain from using this forum to provoke and attack other members. How dare you come here and accuse 'others' of 'wishing her dead'. If, as your vindictive post would indicate, you don't want to participate in reasoned and civilized debate, I suggest that you take your vile allegations elsewhere.

Come on Autumn read what you typed to Bunny again and tell me that your own post in trying to deal with what you saw as a potential bad post wasn't provoking, didn't attack, wasn't accusing and wasn't generally a vile way of dealing with the matter.

My apologies to Jill for my statement above but heck Autumn makes some quite harsh posts herself on ocassions so kettle and pot are sprining to my mind.

Take care

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 27.02.10 10:39

Inyx wrote:"It's just the nature of the internet."

No, I think it's the nature of people, posters.
I think it's the same reason why there's so many tabloids and so few good quality newspapers, with investigative journalists. They write for an audience and there's apparently more people who love to read the spectacular stories "Parents hide her body".

What motivates people to promote or hang on to myths, even after they got debunked?

That's always been the 60 million dollar question, I absolutely refuse to believe that there is money changing hands in this case to maintain proven falsehoods, I don't believe you could find enough people willing to sell their souls and write off an innocent child as dead for cash, but it does beg the question, what is gained and is it the same for everyone?. If some people are still misled (hard to believe, considering how many people have now read the files and will do what they can to point out the facts) and some people, perhaps a very few, have an agenda to mislead, that still leave the others, can it all be misleaders and the misled? Some trolls maybe?

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bunnie1 on 27.02.10 12:11

@hedge wrote:
Inyx wrote:"It's just the nature of the internet."

No, I think it's the nature of people, posters.
I think it's the same reason why there's so many tabloids and so few good quality newspapers, with investigative journalists. They write for an audience and there's apparently more people who love to read the spectacular stories "Parents hide her body".

What motivates people to promote or hang on to myths, even after they got debunked?

That's always been the 60 million dollar question, I absolutely refuse to believe that there is money changing hands in this case to maintain proven falsehoods, I don't believe you could find enough people willing to sell their souls and write off an innocent child as dead for cash, but it does beg the question, what is gained and is it the same for everyone?. If some people are still misled (hard to believe, considering how many people have now read the files and will do what they can to point out the facts) and some people, perhaps a very few, have an agenda to mislead, that still leave the others, can it all be misleaders and the misled? Some trolls maybe?
Perhaps some people without many friends have made new ones on the Forums and its more to do with not losing their new friends than seeing sense, assuming that they have read the Files, and noted how poor the Investigation and search for Madeleine really was.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bellatrix on 27.02.10 12:29

@vaguely1 wrote:Autumn I totally agree that Jill's forum should not be used for attacking other memebers or provoking or attacking. Also it is not a place for vindictive posts - and civilised debate should be encouraged.

I wonder if it would be possible to make a polite request, now that you are moderating that comments such as the ones below will also now desist?

thank you flower


McCann Fanclub have been very busy propping up the pedastal on which they have placed the king and queen of Rothley.

No point in wasting time responding to people who, for whatever reasons, are totally blinkered to anything which may put their idols in a less than saintly light.

Perhaps they are paid to post such drivel,


Totally agree.

clapping

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Re: On it goes...

Post by hedge on 27.02.10 12:33

I'm baffled as to how anyone could see parents of a missing child, missing for nearly three years, quite possibly dead, quite possibly in horrific circumstances as kings and queens? kings and queens of what, horror, desolation, guilt, misery, desperation?

It's an odd description imo.

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Re: On it goes...

Post by bellatrix on 27.02.10 12:46

Indeed and just causes dissent.I would think a moderator should know better imho.

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