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Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by PeterMac on 22.04.12 13:41

No apologies for saving these before they are whooshed.

MADELEINE: THE LAST HOPE? - PANORAMA
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ABOUT THIS PROGRAMME
Five years ago this week, Madeleine McCann disappeared from a family holiday apartment in the Algarve, Portugal, and has never been found. Her parents, Kate and Gerry, are adamant that their daughter was abducted by a predator and persuaded Prime Minister David Cameron to order a review of the case by the Metropolitan Police. Here, Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, the senior UK investigator, talks to Richard Bilton about how he is working collaboratively with Portuguese police and explains why he believes he has the best opportunity yet to establish the facts.

CAST AND CREW

Cast
ReporterRichard Bilton
Crew
EditorTom Giles ProducerJoanna Burge
Categories Documentary
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ShowingMON 30 APR
8:30pm - 9pm
BBC1
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Repeat
Thu 3 May
2:05am
BBC1
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Showing 66 of 64 comments


Paul Castello
Interesting you only concentrate on the statement of the female doctor. Her husband was categorical that he did not believe the conversation was about Madeleine. Lynch mobs pick and choose the evidence and ignore everything which shows them to be wrong.

Like Reply
Just now in reply to Hannah

Hannah
Interesting that the litigious McCanns or their friend Dr David Payne, have not sued Dr Katerina Gaspar over her allegations that she witnessed a depraved conversation between the two men on a previous holiday!

Like Reply
Just now

Carolina
Paul Castello: How many times does one have to correct you and point out that Gonçalo Amaral did not lead the investigation into either the Joana Cipriano case or the Madeleine McCann case. Why do you insist on repeating this inaccuracy. He was a coordinator and not an investigator. In Portugal it the juíz de instrução who leads any criminal investigation, he decides for example if the PJ can go look into a pet incinerator and question the owner or if they can bring in cadaver dogs or question other witnesses, etc. Gonçalo Amaral as a coordinator decides, after having received these indications from the judge, which inspectors will go, which cars they can use, how much money they take with them. He makes no decisions as to the actual investigation or which diligencies are to be carried out. He receives the reports from the inspectors after they have carried out their diligencies and he also makes reports about what they have said. His job is mostly paperwork at the desk. These functions are clearly defined and if he did anything without authorisation from the judge, it would have been null and void.
Furthermore, he did not make the decision not to carry out the reconstruction during the first days. That was a joint decision made by the police officers, the head of the PJ, Alípio Ribeiro and the Ministério Público and which was a big mistake.
As for Gonçalo Amaral's conviction, I must say that it is one of the strangest decisions I have heard of. He was convicted for false testimony based on the report he made regarding the incident with Leonor Cipriano in the PJ in Faro. This same report was based on what he was told by the other PJ inspectors, who were acquitted by the way, as he did not witness the incident. Very, very strange but not so unusual here unfortunately. The trial confirmed that Leonor Cipriano was tortured but no investigation has been called for in order to find out who did it since the defendents had been acquitted. Also, the judge ordered that Leonor be investigated for perjury!!!

Like Reply
19 minutes ago 10 Likes

comperedna
I do hope this program will take a serious look at all the possibilities of what could have happened to Madeleine. Almost everything in the press appears to have been filtered through 'approved spokesmen'. Abduction is only one of the hypotheses: the only one which receives official approval. As far as I know there is no evidence for it... other than that the child disappeared. If Scotland Yard and the Portuguese police are working closely together, and if all those there at the time, and all those who gave witness statements, are now willing to co-operate with the police, the situation could be clarified... Sorry, that should read... we might find out what really happened on May 3rd, or possibly a day or two earlier. The fact that 'no new evidence' has turned up is less worrying than might be thought. Lookee likee 'sightings' are fanciful and no help at all! There is masses of evidence... just awaiting for one or two major pieces of the jigsaw to be filled in, so that matters may proceed, and the case be fully reopened. Perhaps evidence previously deemed in-admissable may after all be included in the case? Perhaps one of those closely involved may have a rethink, and review his or her statement as to what happened? The case will never go away: it will remain as a cold case constantly discussed, particularly by anyone involved in, or concerned about child protection (or those concerned with libel law, or reputation management for that matter). It will be up for re-opening at any time until we do find what happened to the child. Perhaps, eventually, someone's conscience will trouble them so much that the full truth will come out... with enough evidence for a successful court case.

Like Reply
20 minutes ago 6 Likes

Don Reed
This is not really the place to argue points in this case but whether guilty or innocent, the public would probably not be questioning this affair if the McCanns had not set up a company within days of Madeleine`s disappearance and made plans for months ahead - Madeleine could have turned up the next day! This action, plus making millions and generating fame, of course, makes the public suspicious.
This comment section is surely just to discuss whether the Panorama programme (and Andy Redwood) can be impartial and not show bias one way or the other.

Like Reply
56 minutes ago 10 Likes

Dr Silverman
If this programme is yet another propaganda piece, then it has a very great bearing on the guilt or innocence of any party. In fact it is called perverting the course of justice, by ensuring that the McCanns can never have a fair trial. And considering that over £3m of taxpayers money has been thrown at this case, then the public has every right to expect a fair result.

Like
53 minutes ago in reply to Don Reed 8 Likes

Don Reed
Well hopefully this programme won`t pervert the course of justice. We`ll have to wait and see.

Like
41 minutes ago in reply to Dr Silverman 4 Likes

Panda
My post appeared without a name and was directed at Dr. Silverman

Like Reply
1 hour ago

Panda
Thank you for such an informative summary of events , I agree with all your
comments and hope like so many that justice for Madeleine will be done in the
end. Iam concerned that Andy Redwood is to appear on Panorama and wonder
what he can contribute? Will he say the Review has been completed and no
evidence of the PJ not following up sightings? Surely Theresa May should make
such an announcement since so much of Taxpayers money has been used.

The Press as usual are commenting on the latest "sighting" and are a disgrace,
I suspect Joe Public does not believe these made to order ridiculous stories and
hope the case will be closed by the Portugese Police so the Mccanns start
using their own money to continue the search for Madeleine.
.

Like Reply
1 hour ago 11 Likes

Dr David Payne
Google Gaspar statements.

Like Reply
1 hour ago 22 Likes

Eli
Timing is all important and being able to seize opportunities at the right moment is crucial to the success of anything. In 2007 the internet was still in its infancy and a relatively new place for many people and cyber space was a new frontier that was almost as daunting as the computer itself. The British government at the time promoted the use of this technology, subsidising and encouraging every household to get a computer and go online. Had Madeleine gone missing a couple of years earlier the whole dynamics of the McCann’s campaign would have been so different. The timing was perfect to use the internet as a platform to reach the general public and bring people together with a common purpose. Madeleine had touched the hearts of millions around the world, young and old, rich and poor and from all walks of life, almost everyone wanted to help. The internet proved to be a useful campaigning tool which motivated people to become involved and even group together, though there was a flipside to it which I don’t believe anyone anticipated. Communication via the internet pushes the boundaries we can explore. Our inquisitive nature is driven by curiosity, that emotion, the desire for new information and experiences, once aroused drives us to look for answers. The tragic story of Madeleine's disappearance is discussed globally by users of the World Wide Web on internet social media sites and it’s apparent that there are two camps, one which seems to accept the reports given by the McCann’s and their family and friends without question and another which challenged those reports. Curiously even in the early stages of the investigation it soon became apparent that to question or show any kind of disapproval with the McCann’s actions or state any differences of opinion regarding their account of the events was seen by some as more than just questioning and expressing concerns. It was as though it was seen as dissent or non conformism which had to be suppressed.

Someone once said the truth is more important than facts and it is becoming clearer by the day that facts in this case were few and far between. Right from the onset many of the reports emanating from both Portugal and Britain just didn’t marry up. It was almost as though two different versions of events were being told. Whether or not this was just poor journalism or a deliberate attempt from one or both sides to mislead the public is a question we may never truly know. I think it’s only fair to say that in most cases it is not unusual for there to be some variation in the accounts made, however many of these reports did appear to have been direct quotes of statements made to the media. These though were more than just simply conflicting reports, they contained crucial pieces of information which were detrimental to understanding what had actually occurred directly before and after Madeleine was reported to have gone missing. How it was possible that people so closely connected to the case were reporting conflicting stories was something that seems to be pushed to the back of many people’s minds. The emphasis was clearly focussed on Madeleine having been abducted and the anguish this had caused her family. In the early stages and to this day it isn't clear which reports are just sensationalism and drama and what is in fact the truth.

What is certain though is that there was continued criticism about Portugal and their Police force. The image being portrayed by certain people associated with the McCann family was one of a third world country with a blundering police force that didn’t seem to have a clue what they were doing. This image was quickly picked up on by many people who believed the McCann’s were somehow the victims of a lacking police force. The Portuguese police however were in fact doing exactly what any other police force would have done in those circumstances and that is to not only consider abduction as the only possible scenario but to also examine other possible alternatives. Anyone would have known beforehand that it is in fact normal police procedure to always look at the closest people connected to the victim and that includes parents. Of course we’ve already been told this was a blundering third world police force that had made numerous mistakes, so if you believed that, it would be no surprise then for them to get things wrong by suspecting something other than abduction happened. Considering figures show that Portugal had one of the lowest crime rates in Europe and that the Polcia Judiciaria are broadly equivalent to Britain’s very own Scotland Yard with detection rates only slightly below Britain, this really does make people wonder what exactly is going on.

Like Reply
2 hours ago 23 Likes

Dr Silverman
@Paul Costello or Castello or Honestbroker or whatever your name is today - kindly keep your arrogance to yourself. I have not been caught out by anything, especially not the McCann spin doctor, and rubbish in the UK press. I also speak and understand Portuguese, probably every bit as well, if not a lot better, than you, considering that I actually lived there for a number of years and this was long before Google Translate.

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2 hours ago 16 Likes

Dr Silverman
Some FACTS of the case.

Kate McCann refused to answer 48 Police questions. Their friends refused to return to Portugal for an official Police reconstruction.

Two world-reknowned cadaver-scent dogs, now under contract to no less than the FBI, indicated the scent of cadaverine and blood in the McCann's apartment, car, and on their clothing.

Out of the millions of pounds that were raised for the McCann Limited Liability Company fund, only 13 % was spent on the actual search for the child. This is from their own accounts and cannot be disputed.

Photographs and videos have been removed from online newspapers at the request of the McCanns press office, as they looked "too happy" in the photographs.

Facebook pages have been merged with the official McCann one, again at the request of the family, without the consent or permission of the people on them.

Photographs of other missing children have been used in the McCanns campaigns, without the permission of the families - in one case, the family explicitly said not to do so, and the McCanns went right ahead and did it anyway.

Kate McCann did not physically search for her lost child that night and tells us this herself in a TV interview.

The McCanns put plans in place for a long term business strategy by the sixth day, although Madeleine could have been "found" at any time. Uncle John gave up a full time, well paid job to "manage" the company, despite having a family of his own to support.

Witnesses were "visited" by members of the campaign team, while an active investigation was still going on.

Each of these facts is well documented and can be proven. Perhaps those are the sorts of questions that you should be asking.

Like Reply
2 hours ago 28 Likes

mossie
i for one would be encouraged if the programme will answer the following questions for me:
why do the mccanns think it is ok to leave three children under three alone for even five minutes, not to mention systematically for a period of hours over the course of a week;
why have they never returned to portugal to carry out a police reconstruction;
why were they so busy on the night that at least one of them could not go out and search;
why have they quite recently stated that they never made much of the colomba, please clarify is it there or not or is it a "fleck" as was recently described by Mrs Mccann;
why have they never officially written to the portugese authorities demanding the case be re-opened;
why were they not worried or show any concern about the alerts of the dogs in particular the cadaver dog. whilst i fully undertand they may not hold this particular method of investigation in any high regard, would they happily get on a plane when an explosives dog alerts to someting on that plane prior to take off;
why have they never, in so far as i am aware, made an international appeal for the man who mr smith saw that night or at least given it as much publicity as that of ms tanners sighting;
why are they tirelessly commencing litigation after litigation, much of which is aimed at what they themselves have called "internet nutters". surely the money and time would be better spent in aiding the search for their small child

there are many more questions i have, but they are too numerous to mention here.

in looking for answers to these questions i am in no way suggesting madeleines parents were complicit in what happened, so perhaps Mr Costello not everybody who has questions to ask should be described in the manner in which you speak below.

Like Reply
3 hours ago 26 Likes

Hannah
The McCanns have insulted peoples intelligence for long enough and it's high time this façade was brought to a just conclusion.

Jane Tanner is totally unconvincing with her alleged abductor sighting and alibi for Gerry McCann, and upon reading the McCanns absurd version of events, it comes as no surprise that the CSI blood and cadaver dogs marked death in the McCanns apartment and on their possessions. They refused to return for a reconstruction, whilst stating they would 'leave no stone unturned' to find their child. They have indeed left no stone unturned in begging for money, and suing all and sundry who dare point out the endless discrepancies in their bizarre version of events.

Spineless UK media and journalists have run with endless propaganda that comes straight from the McCanns hired mouthpiece Clarence Mitchell, and are still doing so to this day.

If Scotland Yard ignore the enormous discrepancies in the McCanns and friends versions of events, it will say all I need to know about British justice.

(imo)

Like Reply
3 hours ago 31 Likes

Chinagirl
Bravo, Paul Castello! Pithy comments well-written.

Like Reply
3 hours ago 3 Likes

Paul Castello
It is worth repeating the following.. There is nothing whatsoever in the final report of the Attorney General of Portugal which suggests any crime by the parents of Madeleine McCann. He specifically points out they did not abandon their children and he specifically points out that there is NO evidence which points to any crime committed by them.

He is critical about the refusal of the friends to return for a reconstruction but doesn't make it clear that this refusal was on legal advice and that his own investigation team led by Goncalo Amaral had refused to do a reconstruction when it really could have counted in the first few weeks after the disappearance.

Goncalo Amaral was a very odd choice for co-ordinator of the Madeleine Investigation. He was being investigated at the time for involvement in the torture of the mother of another missing girl (never found) at the time and was later convicted criminally for his involvement in that case. He is currently serving his sentence for that crime which he committed while a serving police officer.

I am appalled that so many here rely for their "lynch mob" style claims about the parents of Madeleine on the thesis of this ex-policeman whose lies have seen him get a criminal record in a similar case. He has not yet shown any evidence for his claim that the parents of Madeleine being involved in her disappearance (claims made in the book he earned a million euros from for his personal use) and may rue making such claims when the libel trial about that book begins in September.

I am also appalled that these people come here and make outrageous claims about the parents of Madeleine based on what is clearly their poor interpretation of flawed translations of complex legal documents. They assume that every statement in a police investigation must match perfectly with every other (something anyone with ten minutes experience of actual police work would tell them is ridiculous). They assume that the garbled translations are accurate representations of what was said. They assume that the amateurs who translated these documents had no agenda for spending hours doing so.

The fact is that, as the Attorney General stated, there is not sufficient evidence of any kind to point to any conclusion in the case. No-one knows what happened, not the police officers, not the general public and not even these people who claim so often to have "read the files". He makes the point that there is a likelihood that Madeleine is no longer alive but does not rule out the possibility she is and I believe anyone with goodness in their hearts will not simply presume she is dead and harangue the parents but like Kate and Gerry will hope that she is someday found alive and reunited with them.

I simply wish that this programme on Panorama gives us an insight into what the Scotland Yard and Portuguese Police Combined Review which Madeleine's parents have begged for, is managing to achieve and that through its work we get closer to finding out what happened to the poor little child at the heart of the case.

(Edited by author 11 hours ago)

Like Reply
12 hours ago 8 Likes

The Slave
Thing is, Paul, the parents could have requested AT ANY TIME the reopening of the case. They didn't/haven't. Why do reckon that is then? I mean to say.... what normal parent wouldn't?
The opportunity has been there to ask for the reopening since it was archived.

Like
1 hour ago in reply to Paul Castello 11 Likes

Dr Silverman
In that case, Mister Paul whatever-your-name-is, you must be agreeing that there was no evidence of abduction and that the case to answer was the concealment of a death and a body. Because those were the conclusions not only of Dr Amaral, but the entire Portuguese investigation in conjunction with Leicestershire Police. They are not looking for anyone else. The Portuguese AG himself said that the McCanns forfeited the opportunity to clear their names completely. Which of course you will be able to read and verify for yourself as you tell us you can undertand Portuguese.

Like Reply
12 hours ago 22 Likes

Dr Silverman
Oh I can read perfectly well, Mr Costello/Castello. It seems to be yourself who has difficulty in remembering what your own name is.

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1 hour ago in reply to Dr Silverman 7 Likes

Paul Castello
Again you pretend not to be able to read my name. What is the matter with you? You are making yourself look silly.

And your presumption of what I am saying is so wide of the mark that I think you really do have problems reading here. I challenge anyone to find anything in what I have posted that even vaguely agrees with that presumption of yours.

Where did the AG say any such thing about the McCanns? If you are referring to this phrase, "We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified." then you really have to go back and read it in context more carefully. It places no blame whatsoever on the McCanns if you care to read it properly. It is referring to the actions of others which caused the McCanns case some damage.

I think you have been caught out by the stilted phrasing in the English translation. Its accurate but not clear English. An example of the problems I highlighted earlier.

Like
12 hours ago in reply to Dr Silverman 7 Likes

Dr Silverman
Dear Mister Castello or Costello,
Let us suppose for one moment that Dr Amaral lied. Did the Portuguese Attorney General also lie? Two highly regarded Cadaver Dogs and their handlers? The Irish family? The rest of the Portuguese investigation? The Leicestershire officers?
What makes you think that each and every one of these people are also liars? How much of a conspiracy theory are we supposed to believe?

Like Reply
13 hours ago 23 Likes

Paul Castello
We know that Goncalo Amaral lied, He was convicted and found guilty (even after appeal) of lying in a missing child case. He lied about the torture of the mother in that case and is currently still serving his sentence.

I don't believe any of the others have lied. None of them though has ever said (as Goncalo Amaral has) that the parents were guilty of any crime,. Not the Attorney General, not the dogs, not the Smiths, not the Leicestershire Police. Of the people you mention only Goncalo Amaral has stated that the parents were involved in the disappearance of their child. Unfortunately he has not given any proof of that claim and at the libel trial which is due to open in September he may rue that fact.

What lies are you suggesting all these other people have told because I have never seen a lie from any of them? So, no I am not suggesting any of them have lied.

Like
13 hours ago in reply to Dr Silverman 8 Likes

Dulcibelle
It sounded to me as though he said "Fala com McCanns" which would have been a logical response to the question he was being asked at the time. ("Speak with the McCanns" for those readers not fluent in Portuguese.)

Like Reply
13 hours ago 18 Likes

Paul Castello
To some it sounds like an obscenity in English (and I believe Goncalo Amaral speaks a modicum of English), to others a Portuguese phrase as you state. I cannot hear it clearly enough to decide.

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13 hours ago in reply to Dulcibelle 3 Likes

Dulcibelle
From the Portuguese Attorney General's Archiving Report, and referring to the reconstruction of the evening of May 3 which the Portuguese Police had wanted to carry out, but which the McCanns and their friends refused to attend:

"We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified."

I can highly recommend googling Blacksmith Bureau and Dr Martin Roberts for enlightenment on the holes in the McCann case.

(Edited by author 13 hours ago)

Like Reply
13 hours ago 19 Likes

Dr Silverman
I was just saving you the trouble, Nick.

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12 hours ago in reply to Dulcibelle 3 Likes

Paul Castello
That phrase (in context) states that the refusal of the friends of the McCanns to return for the reconstruction damaged the prospects of the parents of Madeleine to prove what they claimed.

Not surprisingly, of course, it avoids mentioning that this refusal was done on specific legal advice in light of the possibility that the parents of Madeleine were being set up by the investigating team.

The flawed conclusions of Amaral's team regarding the DNA for example (as illustrated in his own claims about the DNA in his book) show that there were reasons to refuse the request for a reconstruction at that time.

There was, of course, a much better time for a reconstruction immediately after the disappearance but it was Goncalo Amaral and his team who refused it then, though the parents were perfectly willing then. His grounds for refusal included that he would have to close Portuguese airspace and that it would upset other holidaymakers.

Like
13 hours ago in reply to Dulcibelle 6 Likes

Dr Silverman
Maybe Duarte Levy stole it.

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13 hours ago in reply to Paul Castello 4 Likes

Paul Castello
Stole what? Are you suggesting that Duarte Levy committed some kind of offence? How is that claim of yours relevant to the Madeleine case review?

Incidentally what point are you trying to make by pretending not to be able to read my name? Why are you being so silly? What game are you playing? Do you need glasses?

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13 hours ago in reply to Dr Silverman 4 Likes

Dr Silverman
In the case that you can understand Portuguese, Mr Costello or Castello, you will be so kind as to confirm that Dr Amaral did not use profane language towards the McCanns, and therefore deserves an apology from the BBC and all the other tabloid hacks who have deliberately misquoted and libelled him.

Like Reply
13 hours ago 16 Likes

Dr Silverman
Then I would suggest you read the BBC website, Mister Castello or Costello, where the BBC admit themselves that an official complaint against them was upheld. Dr Amaral did in fact say "Fala com os McCann" and it is there in writing. As you tell us that you can read and understand Portuguese, perhaps you will confirm what this means. And if you would like a second opinion, Martin Brunt of Sky was also present at the time, and confirms it on his own blog over at the Sky site.

Like
13 hours ago in reply to Dr Silverman 14 Likes

Dr Silverman
Then I would suggest you read the BBC website, Mister Castello or Costello, where the BBC admit themselves that an official complaint against them was upheld. Dr Amaral did in fact say "Fala com os McCann" and it is there in writing. As you tell us that you can read and understand Portuguese, perhaps you will confirm what this means. And if you would like a second opinion, Martin Brunt of Sky was also present at the time, and confirms it on his own blog over at the Sky site.

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13 hours ago in reply to Dr Silverman 14 Likes

Paul Castello
I was asked if I could confirm it. I stated honestly that I cannot. Perhaps these other people had access to better copies of the film or better speakers.

The issue is irrelevant, as far as I am concerned, to the matter in hand which is the review of the Madeleine McCann case.

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13 hours ago in reply to Dr Silverman 2 Likes

Paul Castello
From the video clip I have seen of that I am not able to determine conclusively what Goncalo Amaral actually said.

I see you are not able to deny that he is a convicted liar of course. Can you explain why you implicitly believe in what such a man says when he disgraced his own role of police officer by conspiring to cover up actual torture of the mother of another missing child? What makes you think he is not lying about the McCann case as well?

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13 hours ago in reply to Dr Silverman 5 Likes

Eli
"They are completely ignoring the fact that the Attorney General in the archival report at the end of the Police Investigation in Portugal stated that the parents were NOT guilty of abandoning their children and that there was NO evidence of any crime committed by the parents or the other arguido in the case."
Paul Costello

Lets not also forget what the Attorney General made quite clear in the archival .... That there is NO evidence to support the McCann's claim that an abduction took place !
If you are taking the AG’s word as gospel then you must also believe that the abduction theory is not plausible.

" and most significantly that there were WITNESSES who saw a child being carried away from the scene. "
Paul Costello

If you are referring to Jane T. here I strongly suggest that you read her statement and consider how she could have possibly seen someone carrying a child off at the time she claims when she also claims that she was still sat at the table in the Tapas Bar when Kate Mc was talking about how long Gerry Mc had been away from the table doing his check, and even quotes what was said ! Or are you talking about the witness who described the person carrying a child as being Gerry Mc., who couldn't possibly be the same person JT saw unless he carried the child around the streets of PDL for a considerable time. ... Oh but lets not forget the Mc's attempt in their own documentary to make it appear to be one and the same person.

" The cadaver dog was not supported in any way by forensics in the case. "
Paul Costello

According to the handler and trainer in his official report the cadaver dog has never false alerted in training or operational work, to date.

Also Mark Harrison National Search Adviser for Missing persons Searches and Homicides in his report listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.

(Edited by author 13 hours ago)

Like Reply
14 hours ago 16 Likes

Paul Castello
Where in the report did the AG state there is no evidence of abduction? Page number? As I recall he claimed that there was no way that what could happen could be determined and all options were possible.

Your patronising attempt to suggest that I have not read those statements is amusing. I have read them with a great deal of care and with some understanding of the nature of witness statements. There are discrepancies as there always are in statements. That fact does not in any way prove that they are not largely accurate.

And your claim that Mr Smith described the person as "being Gerry McCann" shows wilful ignorance on your part. You know as well as I do that he did no such thing. He stated that there was a chance it was him. And it is important to recall that he was the only one of four witnesses who believed that. He was not backed up in that suggestion by any of the others. All evidence must be looked at in a case and balanced, it should not be cherry-picked and misrepresented as you have clearly done with that incorrect comment you have just made.

I repeat however what the Attorney General did say. He was categorical in that there was no abandonment of the children by the McCann parents and categorical in that there was no evidence of any crime by the McCanns. Not insufficient evidence but NO evidence.

Like
13 hours ago in reply to Eli 6 Likes

Paul Castello
You really are not doing yourself any favours with this kind of ridiculous hateful ranting.

I am not involved in this case in any way other than as an online commentator. Your inept attempt at suggesting that I (or anyone else for that matter) is paid to comment here is childish in the extreme. I suggest before you make such libellous statements you post some kind of evidence, though what that might be as you are utterly wrong in your lie about me I cannot imagine.

The dogs were not supported by any forensics which identified cadaver odour from Madeleine McCann. And the dog handler himself said that this would be absolutely necessary.

You forget that there were a number of Smith family statements. Only one of which suggests the possibility that the adult could have been Gerry McCann. None of the others do. There was also another perfectly credible witness who saw a child being carried in PDL that night.

The implication you have made that I have not read the files while you have is simply wrong. I have read them, largely in the direct Portuguese rather than in the extremely flawed (in a very large number of cases) translations. It appalls me that people are basing their hateful comments on flawed translations of the files. I am glad that both Scotland Yard and the McCann family have commissioned professional translations because only then can you see what is actually being said and not what a group of self-interested amateurs have told you is being said.

I have posted no lies at all unlike you with your silly over the top nonsense about the McCanns destroying Portugal's tourist trade. When you post such nonsense to support your hateful claims about the parents of a missing child you show what your real motives are.

Perhaps the Panorama programme will shed light on the very flawed initial investigation of the disappearance co-ordinated by a man who was at the time himself being investigated for collusion in the torture of a witness in another missing child case? Yes that man was Goncalo Amaral who was convicted of falsifying evidence/perjury while a serving police officer in that case and who later went on to write a book about his theories regarding the McCann case which though they do not agree with the contents of the police files has allowed him to pocket over a million euros.

It strikes me as very odd that this tiny number of vociferous anti-McCanns rely so heavily on a convicted liar for their ideas. Very odd indeed.

Like Reply
14 hours ago 8 Likes

The Slave
Paul, Calm down, mate! If the McCanns are as innocent as you claim they are , why oh why did Kate Healy NOT answer the 48 questions put to her? If my child had gone missing and I genuinely didn't know where she was I would be prepared to answer any question put to me, even if it made me look like a bad mother, because at the end of the day your child is far, far more important than your reputation.
Why did Mathew lie? Why did Payne lie? Because one read of the Rogatory interviews will demonstrate without a SHADOW OF A DOUBT that they DID!
Why would they do that? When the life of an innocent three year old was at stake. You have to ask yourself that question.
Why would the parents make such a big deal about the alleged Coluboma 'as a good marketing ploy' only a couple of years later to say 'it was only a brown fleck'? Now a child either does or does not have a Coluboma. Did Madeleine ( or Maddie....check Gerald's original facebook page for confirmation that she WAS called Maddie at home) have this condition or not? It isn't mentioned in description given to Interpol. Just a brown fleck and she also has a birthmark on her knee. Strange . Still keep on chipping in if it makes you feel better.

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2 hours ago in reply to Paul Castello 9 Likes

Dr David Payne
Paul keeps chipping in without ever addressing the pertinent questions asked by the disbelieving public... just like the McCanns themselves.

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2 hours ago in reply to The Slave 7 Likes

cherrylight
Bless you sir.

Extraordinary effort.

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13 hours ago in reply to Paul Castello 4 Likes

cherrylight
Oh and Mr Costello, the witnesses of abduction that you refer to can't obviously be referring to the SMITH family because Mr Smith thought he saw Gerald McCann carrying a child.

Like Reply
14 hours ago 15 Likes

cherrylight
So Mr Costello, you obviously have info from being directly involved?
The dogs were never evidence but they are intelligence.
They cannot be ignored.
In the wardrobe, at the window, beyond the window, in the car boot, in the villa.
I applaud your attempts to please your employers.
You argue about the information in the files.
Believe me I know what is in the files.
"You lie with as many teeth as you have in your mouth"

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14 hours ago 19 Likes

cherrylight
This week a man was convicted of murdering Suzanne Pilley in Scotland.
Some of the strongest evidence against him was from the findings of Cadaver Dogs.
In many ways the case of Madeleine McCann threw up stronger and more compelling evidence against her parents.

The fact that they are still at large, have become millionaires, they have ruined decent people's lives, have attempted to destroy the reputation of professional people who are only trying to find out what happened to this little vulnerable child.

They have destroyed a tourist industry in a region which never asked for this negative and false reporting. They have lost countless people their jobs at a time when they as a pair are accumulating wealth.

There is a story to be told about Madeleine McCann. If this programme is another cover up brought about by forces that will be exposed at some stage, then may god forgive you all because there is a scandal here that is getting bigger the more people (media) try to cover it up. It is no longer blind ignorance it is becoming a large criminal conspiracy. Let's hope that the BBC will restore some pride in journalism and avoid becoming another culprit/suspect in something that is never going away until it is resolved.

Like Reply
15 hours ago 24 Likes

mossie
the comments below speak for themselves.

do not let madeleine down again and screen another fictional story.

tell the truth, report what is in those police files.

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16 hours ago 22 Likes

Dr Silverman
Will there be an apology from the BBC to the ex-lead Investigator, Dr Amaral, for bleeping out his speech? It was clear that he was not using profanity, BBC East Mids were well aware of what he actually said ("Speak to the McCanns") yet they tried to discredit him anyway. I do hope that this latest Panorama is not yet another propaganda piece to promote an "abduction" without one shred of evidence.

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17 hours ago 23 Likes

Dulcibelle
Please, Panorama, have regard to your reputation. If this programme is to be more recycled McCann/Mitchell propaganda, pull it from the schedule now. There are too many of us who have read the PJ files, despaired at the constant litigation, laughed ourselves sick at Clarencce Mitchell's pretendy press conferences, and wondered why on earth this little British citizen doesn't merit a proper investigation into her fate, starting with some intensive questioning of the adults on whose care she was relying.

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18 hours ago 32 Likes

Blondie
Excellent Dulcibelle. I do so hope somebody form the BBC is listening, The majority of viewers are in the category you describe so succinctly.

Not expecting too much though. I am too used to being let down to get my hopes up..

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16 hours ago in reply to Dulcibelle 16 Likes

Don Reed
It will be interesting to see how a Scotland Yard inspecter can comment impartially on a case that has not been resolved. He obviously cannot show any bias for or against the parents` stories.

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18 hours ago 21 Likes

LizzyF
Remember, Panorama, 'You can fool some of the people all of the time and you call fool all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.'

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19 hours ago 25 Likes

LizzyF
Let's hope we don't hear the word 'abduction' except when referring to the McCann's version of Madeleine's disappearance.

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20 hours ago 23 Likes

dannybohy
with regards to the last Panorama programme on the Mccanns, the PJ has not changed its opinion on where the truth lies, has Panorama changed its view?, or are they going to delivery another sympathetic Mccannogramme disguised as hard hitting review of facts?. The last presenter did not stay objective in my opinion. The Police forces didnt coem to their conclusions lightly! or without very good reason. The last programme tried to make out the PJ turned suddenly on the mccanns in a one of interview just because Kate was alone at the time. Present the facts, not misrepresemt them to fit your own agenda. There is not ` Tenious` about the case against them, bu tonly they can help clear this up, one way or another! willingly or unwillingly as the case may be. ALso interested to see if the Police inspector is going to try and tell us that they are seriously stil looking into abduction scenarios?...

two theories from Panorama alst time. THe Abduction one can be easily discounted with a bit of research, that leaves one theory guys?

Like Reply
23 hours ago 28 Likes

dannybohy
with regards to the last Panorama programme on the Mccanns, the PJ has not changed its opinion on where the truth lies, has Panorama changed its view?, or are they going to delivery another sympathetic Mccannogramme disguised as hard hitting review of facts?. The last presenter did not stay objective in my opinion. The Police forces didnt coem to their conclusions lightly! or without very good reason. The last programme tried to make out the PJ turned suddenly on the mccanns in a one of interview just because Kate was alone at the time. Present the facts, not misrepresemt them to fit your own agenda. There is not ` Tenious` about the case against them, bu tonly they can help clear this up, one way or another! willingly or unwillingly as the case may be. ALso interested to see if the Police inspector is going to try and tell us that they are seriously stil looking into abduction scenarios?...

two theories from Panorama alst time. THe Abduction one can be easily discounted with a bit of research, that leaves one theory guys?

Like Reply
23 hours ago 28 Likes

Eli
The hypothesis of an abduction as supported by the McCann’s does not rationalise the evidence that is in the original police files.

Like Reply
1 day ago 30 Likes

dannybohy
@ Eli. YOu got it all nice and clear there, apart from perhaps mentioning Jane Tanners remarkable changing statement of events, why she didnt tell Mccanns about the abductor that night? Why she appears to have said the person looked the opposite of Robert Murat, and then seemingly had no problem with finger pointed at Robert Murat?. All feels like anything to make people look the other way?!. Seeing as thats the only (very flimsy and easy to discount) evidence of any abduction is very important to have Jane Tanner questioned properly.

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1 day ago 26 Likes

Eli
A child vanishes under mysterious circumstances

The closest people to her at the time cannot give an accurate account of the circumstances surrounding her disappearance

Two of the worlds best trained dogs are brought in and detect remains of a cadaver in places and on items only belonging to the closest people connected to the missing child

The findings of the DNA results don’t appear to have been interpreted in the context of other evidence in the case

Inconsistencies in the statements of those closest to the victim are evident for all to see and have never been cleared up

One of the parents refuses to answer questions regarding the circumstances surrounding their own daughters disappearance

The parents of the victim are made prime suspects and leave country in a blink of an eye

The group involved refuse to cooperate with a request to return to do a reconstruction

The parents launch a campaign to bring down anyone who publically questions their version of events

Anyone care to fill in the blanks ?

Like Reply
1 day ago 34 Likes

dannybohy
I wonder if they will mention the time and money being spent by the Mccanns suing people who have spoekn out againt them , those who feel the Mccanns are not telling the truth?. An inquest into the Mccann `fighting` fund itself would prove very interesting, seeing as it was the public who paid into it?. But then if the UK police are doing the job right im sure they have already done this? and im sure they will be helping the PJ to get hold of the Medical records and Credit card details that the Mccann would not supply? and will Panarama ask why the McCann wont freely hand over this information?. Ask why did they take the time in the first day to delete calls and texts?. Why they claimed one minute that the twins where drugged by an abductor but wouldnt let anyone test them afterwards to make sure they ok?.

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1 day ago 33 Likes

Blondie
Let us hope that Panorama will examine the facts...the dogs' alerts , the inconsistencies in the Tapas7 statements, Hope this is not another pro McCann whitewashing affair. The public need to know the truth. What really happened this little girl in PDL?

Like Reply
1 day ago 35 Likes

The Slave
Will we or will we not get to find out how any redblooded male could fail to remember that the fragrant Ms.Healy was wearing only a towel when he popped in?
I would..and I'm female.

Like Reply
1 day ago 22 Likes

Suspicious Minds
I really hope this is the beginning of establishing the truth, not just the press reiterating what the Mccanns say, after all their version of events has been proven to be at best inconsistent. The dogs, the neglect, the different versions of stories from all the Tapas group, the hire car, the running off back to the UK, the failure to answer 40 key police questions - I could go on.

If she WAS abducted surely the best way to establish that would begin with obtaining the TRUTH from those that were looking after her and involved in the situation. If Panorama fail to show these facts then they will be a laughing stock - many of us out here in the UK have well researched the background and facts of the case so far...If my child was missing I would be providing as much reliable information as I could as to her last movements, the circumstances in which she came to be missing and helping the police in any way I could, not setting up a magical mystery fund, getting t-shirts and wrist bands printed and meeting the pope.

If I left my car unlocked and my handbag sat on the seat and someone stole it - I would not be covered by my insurance due to not giving my handbag due care and attention, i know the risks so wouldn't do it... just saying.

Like Reply
1 day ago 32 Likes

GaryJames1
What a pathetic comment.

Like Reply
1 day ago 1 Like

dannybohy
And your comment is...what?

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1 day ago in reply to GaryJames1 8 Likes

dannybohy
And your comment is...what?

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1 day ago in reply to GaryJames1 8 Likes

The Slave
Before you dismiss my comment I suggest you read the police files. Especially the 'Rogatory ' Interviews. I have. A twelve year old could work out that some massive porkies have been told.

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1 day ago in reply to GaryJames1 29 Likes

The Slave
I am looking forward to this. I only pray that it will be based on FACTS. And not McCann 'spin'. Will you be showing footage of the dogs? If not, why not? If this turns out to be yet another propaganda exercise by Clarence Mitchell I will never forgive Panorama. I will never take you seriously again. Is it even ethical to have any input from the detective in charge? Could it compromise any upcoming legal action? Will we get any closer to the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I await with growing anticipation. I like Bilton.

Like Reply
1 day ago 33 Likes

MOM OF TWO
So far the BBC has only followed the McCann couples' version of what happened on 3.5.07 so I don't expect this to be any different sadly. Perhaps they could mention that Kate & Gerry didn't physically search that night but still found time to selectively delete calls from their mobile phones. I agree The Slave if panorama doesn't refer to the excellent EVRD dogs and their alerts ONLY on the McCanns' property (no where else) and now they should include the conviction of Susanne Pilley's murderer, a case which RELIED on EVRD dog evidence.

More here: http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t19797p225-panoramamadeleinethe-last-hopethur-3rd-may

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by david_uk on 23.04.12 9:42

All comments have been whooshed?. ..Its looks that way!

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by Guest on 23.04.12 9:52

The comments - currently totalling 582 - are still there.

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by sami on 23.04.12 9:53

Still there when I look and still going strong

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Ah say Ah say Boy watch that Whooshing!

Post by The Rooster on 23.04.12 10:25

Well done Peter Mac, diligence is the watch word when dealing with the two imposters and their mouth piece. I see that there are one or two absolute twits recording comments on the BBC website. There's no science, not even common sense, in their writings. However, let them talk, maybe they will also read and perhaps even learn.

The McCanns are going to get what's due to them. Putting Scotland Yard on their tail and expecting a whitewash is like putting putting chocolate in front of Dawn French and expecting it not to be eaten. They will deliver, rest assured and this very fact must scare the living daylights out of the blaggers in Leicester. Come on the YARD!

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by david_uk on 23.04.12 10:46

they dont show up for me! wonder ifs it old browser at work! Sad

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by uppatoffee on 23.04.12 10:53

No surprise to see everything has now been whooshed. Just 6 comments when I just looked.

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by Guest on 23.04.12 10:56

Still all there for me uppatoffee, new comments being added every few mins.

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by david_uk on 23.04.12 10:57

could someone perhaps cut and paste latest comments here for us?.


many thanks


D

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by Guest on 23.04.12 11:07

All very strange. There are now absolutely no comments showing but no doubt someone else will say different!

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by uppatoffee on 23.04.12 11:10

It is showing that "comments from this page are now closed."

However the last few comments are from Dr Payne telling people to read the Gaspar Statements and pj files re blood splatter patterns.

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by The Slave on 23.04.12 11:12

ALL GONE!!! Even the one I posted this morning.
No comments being allowed at all now. Not for me anyway.
Still it was fun while it lasted. I hope a lot of people caught it at it's height.
Maybe a few will have learned a thing or two.

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by Guest on 23.04.12 11:13

Still showing up all 600 plus comments for me on one tab, but when I just opened up the link again in another tab, there are only 11 comments, and it says "comments section now closed"

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by david_uk on 23.04.12 11:17

has anyone saved the last set of comments??

whats the bets Panorama have had a little email from a certain someone

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by The Slave on 23.04.12 11:20

I bet the radio Times have had a call from Carter F***.

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by david_uk on 23.04.12 11:21

@The Slave wrote:I bet the radio Times have had a call from Carter F***.




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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by PeterMac on 23.04.12 15:48

How did we know ?

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by aiyoyo on 23.04.12 15:49

If (a big if) that was CR effort, golly, Isobel Hudson must have been deployed over to that site as soon as the announcement was made known publicly? Unless she is efficient at multi-tasking and good at micromanaging all the sites simultaneously.

What would be IH job title? Snitch reviewer? Just wondering........

hi to you too, CR?

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by PeterMac on 23.04.12 16:06

When did C-R log in here, and how long after was it that the BBC were threatened ?

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by aiyoyo on 23.04.12 16:18

It makes one wonders whether they are going to attempt to threaten Andy Redwood!

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by Pershing36 on 23.04.12 17:18

Ban their IP address and give them a shock, lol

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by Guest on 23.04.12 17:31

I have just deleted the post that was supposedly from Pat Brown on the Panorama programme, apparently it was not her I have just read on twitter, so it has been deleted from here. Here is Pat's tweet.

PAT BROWN‏@ProfilerPatBReply

@claire_bear_101 @xklamation No, I didn't leave a comment.



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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by PeterMac on 23.04.12 18:23

@aiyoyo wrote:It makes one wonders whether they are going to attempt to threaten Andy Redwood!
He is a police officer. By definition when an officer goes into the witness box and gives evidence it is necessarily defamatory of the person in the dock.
But by that stage the court is dealing with the truth, not with reputation.
IF... the McCans are ever brought to justice C-R will be nowhere to be seen. That is not their role. They do not "defend", they attack.

They will simply go back to counting their pieces of silver.

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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by aiyoyo on 24.04.12 4:04

[quote="PeterMac"]
@aiyoyo wrote:It makes one wonders whether they are going to attempt to threaten Andy Redwood!
He is a police officer. By definition when an officer goes into the witness box and gives evidence it is necessarily defamatory of the person in the dock.

Yes, but prior to that ? Before Police and Perps are in opposing docks in Court?
What will the mccanns do (and we can bet they will do something) if they didnt like to hear what the Police say?

They cant take their complaint to PCC (lost creditability and all) after Gerry's lie went on public record at the LI that PCC did not make an offer to help, when he'd in fact chosen the money option.
Can they set the country's most feared fiercest "bull dog" on the Press or the Yard for that matter?

This time round, would their legal advisor tell them suing is the best option to get optimal result, I wonder?
I would like to see them take on the Yard - that would be a phenomenal happening to behold.

I hope justice is waiting just round the corner .


But by that stage the court is dealing with the truth, not with reputation.
IF... the McCans are ever brought to justice C-R will be nowhere to be seen. That is not their role. They do not "defend", they attack.

They will simply go back to counting their pieces of silver.

Sure, CR is working extremely hard to get all the maccanns pieces of silver; then wont bother to visit them in prison when it comes to that, despite the facade.

If they are ever committed to HMH prison, I suspect not even BB and her socks, or Bren, or Kololi for that matter would form a queue to visit their "heroine" or her "loyal partner in crime!" .





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Re: Comments on the Panorama programme

Post by Guest on 24.04.12 9:46

I don't know Aiyoyo, I can visualise a few howling banshees picketing the prison with banners saying "Free the Rothley Two" - or however many of their associates are rounded up as well!

Unfortunately my imagination isn't good enough to visualise any of them actually being brought to justice in the first place.

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