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Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by Woofer on 22.04.12 18:07

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
You`re totally right Tigger, in fact I haven`t heard one comment agreeing with SY doing this. At least Panorama have had the guts to now name Andy Redwood. We`ll have to wait and see if there`s any bias to what he says - maybe he has stayed impartial. But there`s obviously no way he can go on national TV and cast doubts about the McCann`s abduction story or I`m sure Carter Ruck would straight away be issuing a libel suit against the BBC. Equally he can`t really declare they had nothing to do with it - don`t see how he can do it without any bias. I tend to think it will be in the McCanns favour because the McCann`s would have had to approve it first, as they did with the previous Panorama programme.

Sorry Woofer I find it hard to understand your point.
Why made you think the MET Police need mccanns approval to do anything or say anything? Who are the mccanns?
Even the Queen cannot expect that!

Andy Redwood didn't get to become senior police detective by been inept ( at least I hope not).
Surely he knows where the lines are drawn.








Hello Aiyoyo - I am assuming that, like the last time Panorama did their programme `The Mystery of Madeleine McCann` with Richard Bilton, they allowed the McCanns to vet it before it went out and they were apparently ok with it (there is a link for this somewhere and I will try and find it). We also know the BBC`s slant on this case - although I suppose one can always hope they`ve seen the light.

I can`t see where I`ve said Andy Redwood is inept - I would never say such a thing. It must be very difficult for him to be interviewed without showing any bias at all and I trust he doesn`t. What I`m saying is that he cannot show bias as it would be totally unprofessional.

Regarding the Queen, I expect the BBC would allow the Queen (or her advisors) to vet anything they were going to broadcast.

Apparently I didnt explain myself clearly.
What I meant was, if the Police is investigating a crime, surely there is no need for them to seek anyone's approval before they can comment or talk about it in public if they feel it is necessary.

. Surely the Police, being "law enforcer", is an independent entity not answerable to anyone (not even to royalty) except to the crown prosecutor if I am not wrong. Even royalty is not above the law, and if they were to fall foul of the law and are being investigated surely the Police are not obliged to ask them to vet anything before they've the liberty to come on national TV to talk about the case on a "need to basis". So in that sense, why should common folks mccanns expect to be treated differently. I should hardly think they have the right to ask to vet anything from the Police.

Also surely the Police, of all people, should know all about jeopardising trial and should avoid that pitfall. Hence one would imagine a senior Police Officer didnt acquire his rank by being inept is my reasoning. I would imagine Andy Redwood interview is a necessity basis ( though I cant fathom what it would be) rather than a wish to fill in the public on the case.

Of course he could prove me wrong. In that case people's worst fear may be proven correct.
I would be dead surprised if he comes on prematurely only to indicate they are still working hard to net the abductor, because there is no need to make a banal announcement like that.
When they used the words " the parents are adamant she was taken by a predator" and "last hope" one would imagine it isn't about their last hope to net the illusive abductor because the sky's the limit in that area, so where's there hope, let alone last hope.



Hello Aiyoyo - I totally agree with you. I was just saying that the last documentary Panorama did on this went out with the McCanns` approval, but of course SY were not making comment in that one. Really I was pointing out this happened last time - in fact I think Jon Corner`s film was used in parts of it - so the McCanns could have insisted they approve this one as well. Of course it would be totally inappropriate, but then with all the unexplained power they seem to have over many establishment organisations, it wouldn`t surprise me. But I would end up having no faith in anything anymore.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by gypsypeg on 22.04.12 18:08

@tigger wrote:
@gypsypeg wrote:
@tigger wrote:IMO the fact that anyone from SY, but especially Andrew Redwood, is on that programme at all, compromises the investigation that is being run.

The only good point I can see in all this is that it won't help the mcCanns' popularity if the public are reminded of their taxes being spent in this way.


Have you not noticed that the Police in the UK do actually go on TV now and then during investigations/reviews and ask for public assistance?

Till you hear what he has to say how can you say he is compromising anything? That is rather a hysterical response in advance of the programme.

I suspect that you are very wrong because people do think that their taxes should be spent on solving crime. It is one of the clearest things that every political door stepper hears. "We want our money spent on the right things like locking up criminals."

I take exception at being told my post is a hysterical response. You are welcome to apologise.

I am familiar with Police going on TV asking for public assistance. This is normally the case in recent crimes - after a five year gap it's unlikely that a member of the public in the UK will suddenly remember some vital information. The crime did not take place in the UK.

Despite requests from members on this site and others - SY always said they could not comment as it is an ongoing investigation (don't ask me to find the reference - you'll just have to look)
I take it that SY is now going to say something very publicly despite the above statement. They're not just going to show a picture of the man.
Therefore - as the case has not officially been concluded, I feel that it compromises the investigation. A police officer making any kind of statement on TV before any result is achieved, compromises the case IMO. He shouldn't be there at all.

Re the taxes: giving the McCanns preferential treatment by using nearly 3 million pounds for this investigation does give people the right to see what it's being spent on.
Normally, the taxes paid cover criminal investigations by the police. I've never heard of a serious crime case which was dropped for lack of money. So why does just this one case merit so much extra money? The case could have been re-opened - and the British police force would have worked on it as they did before - for the price of a stamp.

Why should I apologise? Stating what you did about police before hearing what they have to say is silly. Tony has agreed that I make a very fair point about the commenting by police on UK TV.
There was no way in which the UK police could re-open a case that was not even theirs to open or close. There was only the option of a review.
Oh and there are a lot of cases, investigations, court trials etc which cost in excess of 3 million pounds. This is not a rarity these days.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by WOODWARD on 22.04.12 18:28

Maybe Commander Foy will conclude that the perpetrator of the crime was a swarthy ,oddball, loner of low intellect who , having no access to a car, escaped on foot?

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by russiandoll on 22.04.12 18:32

oh dear, gypsypeg, it is you being silly, please read the definition of hysterical before using that word, Tigger made a reasoned point so far from hysteria-based.
I recognise your style of writing and am wondering if you have been here recently using another name?
no need for insults, cant you say politely you disagree? nothing wrong with that, plenty of disagreements here between posters over issues.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by russiandoll on 22.04.12 18:36

having fun trying to work out on the comments page who the posters paul castello, richard and sofia are...... they have a certain style I seem to recognise from a little site I know... its the way they talk about " Gonc" that is the clue.
descended into a free for all between rabid pros and antis just scoring points.... a shame. reasoned debate about what the programme should be covering has disappeared.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by aquila on 22.04.12 18:44

This is my third attempt at posting a comment.

Firstly, gypsypeg it isn't the done thing to say someone's post is hysterical or silly. There's no need for it. A reasonable debate isn't about insulting another person.

Secondly, it's worth reading the Operation Grange remit (has a topic all of its own) to see that this isn't just any old review/paperwork exercise.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by tigger on 22.04.12 19:05

@russiandoll wrote:having fun trying to work out on the comments page who the posters paul castello, richard and sofia are...... they have a certain style I seem to recognise from a little site I know... its the way they talk about " Gonc" that is the clue.
descended into a free for all between rabid pros and antis just scoring points.... a shame. reasoned debate about what the programme should be covering has disappeared.

Paul Castello is really good. He sounds like a PR executive of the old school. Beautifully structured sentences, calm and reasonable sounding arguments.
10/10 for style, but content - sorry, don't agree.

Yes, annoying this point scoring. Using David Payne's name and photo is also not good.
I wonder what the site is going to look like tomorrow, the Radio Times apparently has nothing to do with the BBC and I expect the staff are free for the weekend.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by tigger on 22.04.12 19:23

Gipsypeg wrote:
Why should I apologise? Stating what you did about police before hearing what they have to say is silly. Tony has agreed that I make a very fair point about the commenting by police on UK TV.
There was no way in which the UK police could re-open a case that was not even theirs to open or close. There was only the option of a review.
Oh and there are a lot of cases, investigations, court trials etc which cost in excess of 3 million pounds. This is not a rarity these days.
unquote

So far I'm silly and hysterical. I can probably expect another one of your labels.
I stated clearly that IMO the police shouldn't be there in the first place. So it's immaterial what they are going to say as far as I'm concerned.

You must have missed some of the finer points of this case. The case could and still can be re-opened at the request of the McCanns by sending such a request to the PJ. If that were done, the British police would cooperate closely with the PJ in any case. As indeed they did five years ago. That was my point.

The point about the money is that these are Home Office Funds completely separate from the budget SY have. Clearly there are and have been many cases which are costly - but there is as far as I know no precedent for making such a large sum available to review a case.

You should apologise because you were rude - not because you are wrong.



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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by The Slave on 22.04.12 19:28

Well it's made my Sunday.
That Paul Costello is grating now. He's another one that WILL not answer a proper question or valid point.
He's resorted to using 'Haters'. A dreadful word, not to be used lightly.
I don't hate anybody.
I just don't believe something I'm being 'forced to believe'. It's hardly a crime.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by tigger on 22.04.12 19:31

@The Slave wrote:Well it's made my Sunday.
That Paul Costello is grating now. He's another one that WILL not answer a proper question or valid point.
He's resorted to using 'Haters'. A dreadful word, not to be used lightly.
I don't hate anybody.
I just don't believe something I'm being 'forced to believe'. It's hardly a crime.

What a shame! I just gave him such a glowing report - I'd expected better from him. I haven't looked for a couple of hours, too exhausting.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by sami on 22.04.12 19:33

@tigger wrote:Gipsypeg wrote:
Why should I apologise? Stating what you did about police before hearing what they have to say is silly. Tony has agreed that I make a very fair point about the commenting by police on UK TV.
There was no way in which the UK police could re-open a case that was not even theirs to open or close. There was only the option of a review.
Oh and there are a lot of cases, investigations, court trials etc which cost in excess of 3 million pounds. This is not a rarity these days.
unquote

So far I'm silly and hysterical. I can probably expect another one of your labels.
I stated clearly that IMO the police shouldn't be there in the first place. So it's immaterial what they are going to say as far as I'm concerned.

You must have missed some of the finer points of this case. The case could and still can be re-opened at the request of the McCanns by sending such a request to the PJ. If that were done, the British police would cooperate closely with the PJ in any case. As indeed they did five years ago. That was my point.

The point about the money is that these are Home Office Funds completely separate from the budget SY have. Clearly there are and have been many cases which are costly - but there is as far as I know no precedent for making such a large sum available to review a case.

You should apologise because you were rude - not because you are wrong.


What would Ben Needhams family give to have received even 1% of the finances and assistance the McCanns have received. Every missing child is important and they should all be investigated equally. If there is a sum of money available for such investigations, it should be shared equally and resources allocated to the extent the budget allows.

It is an extraordinary amount of money that has been spent on this review. Why has the Fund not made a donation, that is what the Fund is for - to aid in the search. Such a contribution may well have released both money and resources for SY to use on other reviews or investigations. imo.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 22.04.12 20:02

@sami wrote:
@tigger wrote:Gipsypeg wrote:
Why should I apologise? Stating what you did about police before hearing what they have to say is silly. Tony has agreed that I make a very fair point about the commenting by police on UK TV.
There was no way in which the UK police could re-open a case that was not even theirs to open or close. There was only the option of a review.
Oh and there are a lot of cases, investigations, court trials etc which cost in excess of 3 million pounds. This is not a rarity these days.
unquote

So far I'm silly and hysterical. I can probably expect another one of your labels.
I stated clearly that IMO the police shouldn't be there in the first place. So it's immaterial what they are going to say as far as I'm concerned.

You must have missed some of the finer points of this case. The case could and still can be re-opened at the request of the McCanns by sending such a request to the PJ. If that were done, the British police would cooperate closely with the PJ in any case. As indeed they did five years ago. That was my point.

The point about the money is that these are Home Office Funds completely separate from the budget SY have. Clearly there are and have been many cases which are costly - but there is as far as I know no precedent for making such a large sum available to review a case.

You should apologise because you were rude - not because you are wrong.


What would Ben Needhams family give to have received even 1% of the finances and assistance the McCanns have received. Every missing child is important and they should all be investigated equally. If there is a sum of money available for such investigations, it should be shared equally and resources allocated to the extent the budget allows.

It is an extraordinary amount of money that has been spent on this review. Why has the Fund not made a donation, that is what the Fund is for - to aid in the search. Such a contribution may well have released both money and resources for SY to use on other reviews or investigations. imo.

Totally agree Sami. Excellent post. clapping

The bolded is a excellent point! I'd love the McCanns try to answer that one.




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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by gypsypeg on 22.04.12 20:35

@tigger wrote:Gipsypeg wrote:
Why should I apologise? Stating what you did about police before hearing what they have to say is silly. Tony has agreed that I make a very fair point about the commenting by police on UK TV.
There was no way in which the UK police could re-open a case that was not even theirs to open or close. There was only the option of a review.
Oh and there are a lot of cases, investigations, court trials etc which cost in excess of 3 million pounds. This is not a rarity these days.
unquote

So far I'm silly and hysterical. I can probably expect another one of your labels.
I stated clearly that IMO the police shouldn't be there in the first place. So it's immaterial what they are going to say as far as I'm concerned.

You must have missed some of the finer points of this case. The case could and still can be re-opened at the request of the McCanns by sending such a request to the PJ. If that were done, the British police would cooperate closely with the PJ in any case. As indeed they did five years ago. That was my point.

The point about the money is that these are Home Office Funds completely separate from the budget SY have. Clearly there are and have been many cases which are costly - but there is as far as I know no precedent for making such a large sum available to review a case.

You should apologise because you were rude - not because you are wrong.



Oh should I? Well sorry for that. I prefer Tony's endorsement rather than your grating demands for apologies for nothing.

We clearly disagree that the fate of a little child is important enough for money to be spent on it. Personally I would wholeheartedly support the same amount now being spent on the Ben Needham case because I think such use of funds is far more beneficial than much of our government spending.

As for the DCI Redwood being on Panorama, I think that is excellent news and look forward to what he says. It is perfectly normal for the police to comment on cases and ask for support etc. The fact you don't like it is largely irrelevant. It is going to happen so lets wait and see what he says.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by Miraflores on 22.04.12 20:40

Why has the Fund not made a donation, that is what the
Fund is for - to aid in the search. Such a contribution may well have
released both money and resources for SY to use on other reviews or
investigations. imo.

Is that ever going to be likely? In the first year they only spent 13% of the fund money on the search, so if that was all their daughter was worth, I can't see them offering to support others.

It's a mystery (am I allowed to use that word?) as to where exactly the funds have gone to.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by tigger on 22.04.12 20:54

@gypsypeg wrote:
@tigger wrote:Gipsypeg wrote:
Why should I apologise? Stating what you did about police before hearing what they have to say is silly. Tony has agreed that I make a very fair point about the commenting by police on UK TV.
There was no way in which the UK police could re-open a case that was not even theirs to open or close. There was only the option of a review.
Oh and there are a lot of cases, investigations, court trials etc which cost in excess of 3 million pounds. This is not a rarity these days.
unquote

So far I'm silly and hysterical. I can probably expect another one of your labels.
I stated clearly that IMO the police shouldn't be there in the first place. So it's immaterial what they are going to say as far as I'm concerned.

You must have missed some of the finer points of this case. The case could and still can be re-opened at the request of the McCanns by sending such a request to the PJ. If that were done, the British police would cooperate closely with the PJ in any case. As indeed they did five years ago. That was my point.

The point about the money is that these are Home Office Funds completely separate from the budget SY have. Clearly there are and have been many cases which are costly - but there is as far as I know no precedent for making such a large sum available to review a case.

You should apologise because you were rude - not because you are wrong.



Oh should I? Well sorry for that. I prefer Tony's endorsement rather than your grating demands for apologies for nothing.

We clearly disagree that the fate of a little child is important enough for money to be spent on it. Personally I would wholeheartedly support the same amount now being spent on the Ben Needham case because I think such use of funds is far more beneficial than much of our government spending.

As for the DCI Redwood being on Panorama, I think that is excellent news and look forward to what he says. It is perfectly normal for the police to comment on cases and ask for support etc. The fact you don't like it is largely irrelevant. It is going to happen so lets wait and see what he says.

Ah! Grating demands! A new one, thank you.
You are using the typical ploy of trolls to answer a straight question with a non sequitur. (see the bolded part) .
Where have I said anything of the sort?
I will not answer any more of your posts, which seem to be somewhat lacking in logic. I will be interested to see how you answer my post on the subject of the trial.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by PeterMac on 22.04.12 22:15


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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by aquila on 22.04.12 22:43

@PeterMac wrote:

I'm thinking of taking up trolling, when I looked in the mirror this morning I swear I saw a remarkable similarity to this picture.

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What is it about this case ????

Post by tuom on 22.04.12 22:55

Wow !! what is about this case that raises so many comments on the Radio Times site on a programme that has not even aired yet !!

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by Guest on 22.04.12 23:58

@PeterMac wrote:

PeterMac, in the interests of political correctness and equal opportunities, can you also post a picture to commemorate the female trolls who have graced this forum recently?

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by aquila on 23.04.12 0:04

Jean wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:

PeterMac, in the interests of political correctness and equal opportunities, can you also post a picture to commemorate the female trolls who have graced this forum recently?

Jean, I think he did.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by aiyoyo on 23.04.12 3:46

@Woofer wrote:
Hello Aiyoyo - I totally agree with you. I was just saying that the last documentary Panorama did on this went out with the McCanns` approval, but of course SY were not making comment in that one. Really I was pointing out this happened last time - in fact I think Jon Corner`s film was used in parts of it - so the McCanns could have insisted they approve this one as well. Of course it would be totally inappropriate, but then with all the unexplained power they seem to have over many establishment organisations, it wouldn`t surprise me. But I would end up having no faith in anything anymore.

Well Woofer, the last Panorama documentary was initiated by team mccann right? So, without saying, naturally they would want to control their output, and BBC has not choice over it, else there wouldn't be a programme!

This one is completely different. This one is without doubt neither BBC nor TM has a choice over the Police output.
I cant see how even mighty as he seems mccanns' media controller can control what comes out from the Police. Since the mccanns didnt offer themselves to be eliminated from the process, no sane police force would update them.

I suspect this programme will be more of an announcement to the press to stay well within the boundary of responsible reporting to avoid jeopardise of future trial, while giving out minimum information, that at most will give a scan hint (with some hard deducing or guessing) to the direction of the review and nothing else.

Police are known from time to time to come on national tv to appeal to witnesses or to implore press to apply restraint in their coverage. This may be a case of hinting to the "magnificient (not) seven" to volunteer to come forward with info or be invited into the Police station, and this time "tea and salmon sandwiches" wont be laid out!

And from the Hack Inquiry we know all about "arrest" by invitation dont we!
In that situation the last thing the Police need is Press overdrive in to a frenzy that put the eventuality of a trial at risk.

Fingers crossed anyway, but I am prepared for a rise in blood pressure just in case as well.



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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by tigger on 23.04.12 6:46

558 replies! So far, apparently they're still all on there and Paul Costello is going strong - must have stayed up all night?
Loved Ashwari's theory here that Clarrie must have been taken out of his coffin for damage limitation purposes. Still PC's use of English is far too good for him to be Clarrie.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by PeterMac on 23.04.12 7:56

Jean wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:

PeterMac, in the interests of political correctness and equal opportunities, can you also post a picture to commemorate the female trolls who have graced this forum recently?

OK

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PeterMac
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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by aiyoyo on 23.04.12 9:52

@tigger wrote:558 replies! So far, apparently they're still all on there and Paul Costello is going strong - must have stayed up all night?
Loved Ashwari's theory here that Clarrie must have been taken out of his coffin for damage limitation purposes. Still PC's use of English is far too good for him to be Clarrie.

Paul Costello's only supporter is "chinagirl". And Dr David Payne is taking the biscuit by asking people to google Gaspers' statement.

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Re: Madeleine: The Last Hope? - Panorama UPDATED 7.30 25th April (only certain areas) and 8.30 pm Mon 30th April 2012

Post by Woofer on 23.04.12 11:53

@tigger wrote:558 replies! So far, apparently they're still all on there and Paul Costello is going strong - must have stayed up all night?
Loved Ashwari's theory here that Clarrie must have been taken out of his coffin for damage limitation purposes. Still PC's use of English is far too good for him to be Clarrie.



Whaaaaaaaaaat ! Still there ! - he has been going non-stop for about 18 hours - this confirms he must be a brainwashed robot. OMG how sinister. There`s another couple that always repeat the same old mantras.

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