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Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by nomendelta on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:29 pm

Hmm I am not sure at all about the JT business - if she HAD been made to feel responsible for Maddie's death then I am sure she'd have worked harder at getting her story right about the "sighting". Of course perhaps she wasn't aware of the impending media circus and didn't imagine that there would be such focus and attention on the story.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:40 pm

@nomendelta wrote:Hmm I am not sure at all about the JT business - if she HAD been made to feel responsible for Maddie's death then I am sure she'd have worked harder at getting her story right about the "sighting". Of course perhaps she wasn't aware of the impending media circus and didn't imagine that there would be such focus and attention on the story.

Someone else said that the Tapas 7 must have thought it would all blow over pretty soon. No way would they have behaved as they did at the time if they'd know that five years down the line they're still under scrutiny.

JT adapted her story further and further as she was given new details on the pyjamas for instance. The adaptations have a coherent pattern, following events and opportunities and possibly instructions. At the time it was also the only sighting available. In the rogatory interviews she had a hard time with the Murat identification. There's a good analysis somewhere, either Blacksmith or Dr. Roberts.


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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by rainbow-fairy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:44 pm

@nomendelta wrote:Hmm I am not sure at all about the JT business - if she HAD been made to feel responsible for Maddie's death then I am sure she'd have worked harder at getting her story right about the "sighting". Of course perhaps she wasn't aware of the impending media circus and didn't imagine that there would be such focus and attention on the story.
That could be right, indeed.
I actually think her bumbling adds more weight than not. After all, how clear would your mind be if you thought you'd just killed your aquaintances child?

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:53 pm

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@nomendelta wrote:Hmm I am not sure at all about the JT business - if she HAD been made to feel responsible for Maddie's death then I am sure she'd have worked harder at getting her story right about the "sighting". Of course perhaps she wasn't aware of the impending media circus and didn't imagine that there would be such focus and attention on the story.
That could be right, indeed.
I actually think her bumbling adds more weight than not. After all, how clear would your mind be if you thought you'd just killed your aquaintances child?

I'm still with the early demise of Maddie, so it would in the light of this theory be very interesting to look at JT and ROB - phone pings, creche, don't forget Burgau, JT's possible mtDNA in a car and in an apartment, connected with Murat?
That adds another factor to the ones already on the table.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by rainbow-fairy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:36 pm

@tigger wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@nomendelta wrote:Hmm I am not sure at all about the JT business - if she HAD been made to feel responsible for Maddie's death then I am sure she'd have worked harder at getting her story right about the "sighting". Of course perhaps she wasn't aware of the impending media circus and didn't imagine that there would be such focus and attention on the story.
That could be right, indeed.
I actually think her bumbling adds more weight than not. After all, how clear would your mind be if you thought you'd just killed your aquaintances child?

I'm still with the early demise of Maddie, so it would in the light of this theory be very interesting to look at JT and ROB - phone pings, creche, don't forget Burgau, JT's possible mtDNA in a car and in an apartment, connected with Murat?
That adds another factor to the ones already on the table.
I thought you'd like that!
I'm with you on this - whatever happened, happened before the 3rd, and I'm certain Burgau figures in somewhere. Then we have GMcC + RM's phone records (identical times on/off).
I too would be very interested in JT and ROB's pings. I was intrigued by the pings that placed ROB near the disused barn where the bloodied towel was allegedly found.
I do believe JT/ROB are in this quite deeply.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Merrymo on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:24 pm

@tigger wrote:
@Merrymo wrote:
@tigger wrote:JT and possibly ROB (and wasn't there a suggestion that ROB had tried to revive Maddie? (Definitely seen some post to that effect) how reliable - sorry - don't know - sometimes it doesn't hurt to throw suggestions into the ring.

JT gave Gerry an alibi and later helpfully pointed out Murat - she identified Murat positively. From Kate's diary we already know she didn't like him.

But JT did not positiviely identify Murat. After the 'identity parade' she said that she could not say either way whether it was him because she was not able to get a clear view of him during the 'parade'. One thing is for certain and that is if JT had made a positive identification of Murat she would have been immediately taken to the police station to make and sign a formal statement to that effect. This did not happen.

After telling the police that she was unable to make an identification they phoned through to their Headquarters to ask whether she would be required to sign anything. The answer was no.



Look! I do colour too! From Joanna Morais blogspot:

We’ll return now to the sequence of events that led to Murat’s being pulled in for questioning. He was made an ‘arguido’ on Monday 14 May, immediately following a positive identification of him as the alleged abductor by the McCanns’ friend Jane Tanner, which we deal with in more detail later. He was questioned later that day. Below, we examine in detail the information Murat gave to police on 14 May, but perhaps first we should discuss how the identification that Robert Murat was the abductor was made by Tanner. We also need to examine the separate, but clearly related, claim by three other members of the ‘Tapas 9’ group that they saw Robert Murat hanging around the Ocean Club complex near the McCanns’ apartment on the night that Madeleine disappeared. But before all that we’ll look at what Murat did on the Friday and Saturday after Madeleine was reported missing.
unquote

Do your research, I will not answer any of your posts here or anywhere - and hope that no-one else will bother either.
THEN YOU WON'T MESS UP MORE TOPICS


I have done my research. Identifying Murat would be absolutely CRUCIAL evidence because that would mean that JT had actually identified the man who may have abducted Maddie. And that would be HUGE to the PJ especially as they had Murat in their sights at the time.

There is not a chance in the world that any Police Force would NOT have got that vital evidence to their case formalised in writing in a signed statement from the witness. As such crucial evidence it would have been a top priority to do so. Word of mouth is not evidence.

JT knows there is no signed statement - because if there was - she would also know that if she later denied making a positive identification, then there would be several policeman, an interpreter, the person who typed up her statement, and probably Mr Amaral holding up the signed statement itself to prove indisputedly to the World that she was ONE MASSIVE LIAR.

It is public knowledge that she has denied ever making a positive ID of Murat, and yet not one person has come forward stating that she is a liar and they have the evidence to prove it. That's because it doesn't exist.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:31 pm

Don't know what the outcome was but it certainly seemed to have begun according to this............

Robert Murat criminal complaint against Jane Tanner

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/02/robert-murat-criminal-complaint-against.html

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:01 pm

I see that Merrymo is still doing her crucial research without revealing any source at all.
Could we please agree to ignore her posts? This is an interesting topic and if it is going to run to 60 pages as was the case with the 'Why didn't you come' topic it will be useless.
Lots of very long quoted posts with insertions without references that are any use!

I always try to be polite, but this will just go on and on imo. It seems to be entirely for the sake of disrupting normal discussion.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by aiyoyo on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:06 pm

I wonder why Janey only, when two other Tapas ladies identified him as well.

Unless it was because all three placed him in the resort area on the 3rd, but Janey was the only one who actually said he was the egg man she saw, and that is a hugh difference! I mean hugh as Janey effectively was saying he's the abductor.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:17 pm

@aiyoyo wrote:I wonder why Janey only, when two other Tapas ladies identified him as well.

Unless it was because all three placed him in the resort area on the 3rd, but Janey was the only one who actually said he was the egg man she saw, and that is a hugh difference! I mean hugh as Janey effectively was saying he's the abductor.

Exactly, that's what Amaral also says in his book. According to him he was made an arguido on the strength of JT's identification.
Only members of T7 placed him in the resort, no-one else reported his presence.
JT may have been under pressure by Kate, who really, really hated him in her diary and also in the bewk, I believe.
When he collected over half a million damages from the press - together with the T7, he didn't donate anything to the Fund. Might that be the reason?
ROB was missing from the court - I think he refused to come, the others posed for their famous photograph and allegedly gave all the money to the fund. Hmm. I wouldn't!
I also read that Murat and the T7 had coffee or something together after the court case. Trying to find this. Murat knows pretty well what happened, being made arguido wasn't part of the deal, I expect. But must have been safe enough - there was absolutely nothing on him they could use.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:27 pm

Tigger they were seperate court cases on two completely different dates. One in July 2008/Murat and the Tapas 7 in October 2008 so I don't think Murat was there to have coffee after big grin

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036160/Robert-Murat-wins-Madeleine-McCann-court-action.html

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/madeleine-mccann-tapas-7-win-payout.html

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:42 pm

candyfloss wrote:Tigger they were seperate court cases on two completely different dates. One in July 2008/Murat and the Tapas 7 in October 2008 so I don't think Murat was there to have coffee after big grin

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036160/Robert-Murat-wins-Madeleine-McCann-court-action.html

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/madeleine-mccann-tapas-7-win-payout.html

Thanks, I have definitely read that they met up though - I shall have to do some trawling. Might well be Morais - long time ago. It made special mention of the expression on Murat's face after he'd won the case. Not important, but thanks for putting me right.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:52 pm

@tigger wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Tigger they were separate court cases on two completely different dates. One in July 2008/Murat and the Tapas 7 in October 2008 so I don't think Murat was there to have coffee after big grin

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036160/Robert-Murat-wins-Madeleine-McCann-court-action.html

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/madeleine-mccann-tapas-7-win-payout.html

Thanks, I have definitely read that they met up though - I shall have to do some trawling. Might well be Morais - long time ago. It made special mention of the expression on Murat's face after he'd won the case. Not important, but thanks for putting me right.

It would be interesting if you could find that tigger, I have never seen or heard that before. Considering he was suing three of them it seems strange they would meet up, unless maybe to discuss some sort of settlement i don\'t know

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:53 pm

Just thought: completely theoretical but: if Janet had been tricked like this, it makes a lot more sense that the T7 all clubbed together.
Instead of two of their number in trouble, it would have been four. Psychologically, it makes a lot more sense.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:54 pm

candyfloss wrote:
@tigger wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Tigger they were separate court cases on two completely different dates. One in July 2008/Murat and the Tapas 7 in October 2008 so I don't think Murat was there to have coffee after big grin

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036160/Robert-Murat-wins-Madeleine-McCann-court-action.html

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/10/madeleine-mccann-tapas-7-win-payout.html

Thanks, I have definitely read that they met up though - I shall have to do some trawling. Might well be Morais - long time ago. It made special mention of the expression on Murat's face after he'd won the case. Not important, but thanks for putting me right.

It would be interesting if you could find that tigger, I have never seen or heard that before. Considering he was suing three of them it seems strange they would meet up, unless maybe to discuss some sort of settlement i don\'t know
I'll do my best ma'm! thumbsup

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by sami on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:00 pm

From my understanding it was Tanner who positively identified Murat as the abductor, the others only said they saw him around the resort on the night of 3rd and morning of 4th. Was it not also how Russell O'Brien said he came to have Murats phone number on his mobile phone - he had met him while searching - according to O'Brien that is.

I read some time ago now that the problem with Jane Tanner's identification, from the police point of view, was that while on her way to meet them she and O'Brien bumped into Murat on the street. It seems Murat stopped to speak to O'Brien and chat about posters he had made and about the case in general. O'Brien and Tanner carried on their way and then she got into the police van.

The concern was then that her evidence could be inadmissable in court because she had stopped and spoken with the suspect not ten minutes before positively identifying him in the "line up". Obviously at the time the police did not know she had met him before getting into the van but it is thought she told Bob Small about this, when she rang him to tell him that Rachel and the others had seen Murat around the resort, following his picture being on Sky News.

As I said this is what I have understood to be the case, I have not got links or the time to find them, at this minute.

Jane Tanner's rogatory statement is worth re-reading. Her description of that meeting with the police cannot be described.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:05 pm

There is a thread in the research section about Jane Tanner and Murat.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:29 pm

Doing just that! six parter by TB on Murat but also this bit:
quote from: http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/articles-revised.html
Friday 7 & Saturday 8 November: Several newspapers in Portugal and then England carry news that two (or one in one report) members of the ‘Tapas 9’ wanted to change their statements. The source appears to be the Portuguese lawyer for one of the ‘Tapas 9’. Other reports did not say the person was a member of the ‘Tapas 9’ but simply described the couple who wanted to change their statement as ‘friends of the McCanns’.

Tuesday 13 November: Brian Kennedy and his in-house lawyer Edward Smethurst have meetings with Robert Murat, Metodo 3 and the Portuguese Police in Praia da Luz and Portimão. (Below we discuss this very significant set of meetings in more detail). We know the meeting with the Portuguese Police took place in Portimão on Tuesday 13 November, and Kennedy’s meeting with Murat may have been that day or one day either side of it. There has been much speculation about what kind of understanding might have been reached between that Kennedy, Smethurst and Murat at that meeting. None of those involved are keen to say what was discussed.

Wednesday 14 November: Portuguese Police source quoted as saying that they have over 100 questions to ask the McCanns and their ‘Tapas 9’ friends but are being subject to unreasonable delays by the British authorities.

Friday 16 November: Daily Mail carries an article featuring Jane Tanner saying she has never pointed the finger of suspicion at Robert Murat.

Saturday 17 November: The ‘Tapas 9’ group met all day at the Rothley Court Hotel, Leicestershire, along with representatives of Metodo 3, and no doubt various lawyers and other advisers. News of this secret meeting did not leak out to British newspapers until 11 December.
unquote!

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by rainbow-fairy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:33 pm

@tigger wrote:Just thought: completely theoretical but: if Janet had been tricked like this, it makes a lot more sense that the T7 all clubbed together.
Instead of two of their number in trouble, it would have been four. Psychologically, it makes a lot more sense.

I absolutely agree tigger, and the more I read about this, the more I think there is something to this.

I also think Jane was 'lookout' at 9.15ish, likely as not?

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:45 pm

from: http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/articles-revised.html
Murat, part 6.
Just as puzzling: neither did Murat criticise Jane Tanner for identifying him as the abductor on 14 May 2007, nor did he have a word of condemnation for the other three members of the ‘Tapas 9’ who had a day or two later positively identified him as having been hanging round the Ocean Club apartments on the evening of 3 May.

Clarence Mitchell had made the ‘Huntley’ reference to Murat. The McCanns referred to evidence that he was a ‘spotter for a paedophile gang’. Jane Tanner was adamant that he was the abductor she’d allegedly seen. Three others of the ‘Tapas 9’ claimed they’d seen Murat near the McCanns’ apartment the night Madeleine was reported missing - and tried to out-face Murat at a tense confrontation with him organised by the Portuguese Police on 11 July. Yet in his Cambridge Union address, Murat was totally silent about all of this.

Why? Why did he vent his spleen on the tabloids - and not on Mitchell and six members of the ‘Tapas 9’ who had so actively conspired to smear him?

unquote.

Still haven't found the coffee - but I may simply have been wrong. It is well over a year ago I saw it. In any case - this also shows his attitude to the T9.
Very interesting read - so much work done by Tony!


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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by PeterMac on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:58 pm

@tigger wrote:
...Why did he vent his spleen on the tabloids - and not on Mitchell and six members of the ‘Tapas 9’ who had so actively conspired to smear him?...
Money.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:19 pm

@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:
...Why did he vent his spleen on the tabloids - and not on Mitchell and six members of the ‘Tapas 9’ who had so actively conspired to smear him?...
Money.

Yes, but this was at his Cambridge Union address, long after he had the money - and it was the T's evidence of his presence on the 3rd and in particular JT's helpful id that dropped him in it.
Apparently he didn't even touch on false witness evidence.... he's well in it and had a better an more successful outcome than the McCanns - also 50.000 pound more from the settlement than the McCanns. Might that account for Kate's fury?

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:18 am

@tigger wrote:Just thought: completely theoretical but: if Janet had been tricked like this, it makes a lot more sense that the T7 all clubbed together.
Instead of two of their number in trouble, it would have been four. Psychologically, it makes a lot more sense.

Just adding to my own post - sorry! But in fact if JT and ROB did so much for the McCanns - who at the time allegedly they didn't know very well - in the light of the theory here it would fit the circumstances.
So we can forget Diane Webster, Matthew Oldfield was in 'debt' to Gerry because he'd recently testified on his behalf in a medical matter?
Rachel Mampilli I think hardly knew them, leaves only old buddies the Paynes.
So out of 9 Tapas, MO, JT, ROB and GM and KM would be most involved.
The Paynes (Fiona making mistakes all the time and Payne quite late with his witness statement on the 3rd), and RM on the sidelines. Diane Webster absolutely nothing to do with anything.
So the 'weight' of the group helping is shifted considerably.
Not only that, MO only helped on the sidelines, JT and ROB definitely were active and the McCanns were at the centre, ready with the big plan?
Pure theory of course, but psychologically interesting. It would be more as if the McC's were doing JT and ROB a favour rather than the other way round.

If JT and ROB realized after a couple of months that they might not be culpable in the demise of Maddie, they might be the couple mentioned by the press who were ready to drop out around Nov. 07.
Within ten days of this the Rothley meeting took place and Gerry briefed David Smith of the Timesonline and probably 'gave' the second baby monitor to him. It may have been one of the conditions demanded by JT and ROB to stay in the group. At least their perceived neglect - which must be difficult for a paediatrician as ROB is - was not so bad in the public eye.
I think it was also ROB who said that the whole thing had ruined his career. Possibly at the Rog.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Me on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:58 am

Merrymo's up to her ususal tricks, ignoring what she's been told previously.

I'd rather take Janey's word for it in the Rogatory statement than Merrymo's speculation.

I'm not going to quote it again (unless Merrymo's selective amnesia is playing up again) but she clearly stated she thought he (murat) was the abductor.

And that's from her own mouth.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by aiyoyo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:30 am

RM- chronicle of events:

2007
Mid-May, RM was made an ‘arguido’,
13 Nov or thereabout, he met with BK and his legal adviser.

2008
21 July 2008 released from arguido, case shelved.
July 2008 UK Newpapers agreed to pay him $600K in damages
Got more later probably in the same year, year 2008.

2009
March 2009, Cambridge Union speech condemning the British tabloid, but did not utter a word against those Tapas members who dragged his name into mud.
17 April 2009, married his partner Michaela Walczuk.

When did he file the criminal complaint against JT (or was it the 3 Tapas ladies)? Which begs the question, if he was up to his neck it, it could be said they were in the same boat, so why file against them. Don't forget, this filing was post his clandestine meeting and (deal) with BK and his adviser, and after having got his money from the Press.

His meeting with BK et al is suspsicions considering both sides brought along their lawyers.
His lack of condemnation in a public speech against those who dragged his name into mud, wrecking a good couple of years of his and his family's life is very puzzling.

I can understand if he was involved and didn't bad mouth them, as he's got paid in the end by the Press, and probably from a certain quarter whom he meet with in Nov 2007, what I fail to understand is why then despite having got his money did he sue them?

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