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Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by sami on 09.04.12 19:36

@russiandoll wrote: of course you did not wash the top...........how stupid of me to ask !! been answering too many posts and reading too much, of course it needed to be seen dried-in, pre wash, just like Kate described !
thanks for the reminder..
re calpol.....it was mentioned specifically as a brand by the PJ, wasn't it? So I dont think it was translated in error from what had been a generic mention of a medicine..?


No, not stupid at all, I am just not as good a housekeeper as Kate and have not rushed to wash it immediately. It may well stay in the washing basket for sometime yet

I am finding it hard to express what I am trying to say about the use of the word Calpol and translation. I know where I am from people will say "i gave him calpol", when in fact it was a paracetamol branded product but not in fact Calpol. It is just a word that is used regularly as a description of childrens medication when in fact it could be any pain relief product. So I wondered if that were the case in translation, did the PJ use the word Calpol as an explanation of the type of medication they were talking about as opposed to the actual form of it. Most very likely not, but just something I had thought about.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by uppatoffee on 09.04.12 19:36

There is also Phenergan (?) forte, a super strength version, that definitely has a sedative effect. Again it requires a GP prescription, not something that would have been a problem if required.

Calpol there days is advertised as having a non drowsy formula, so wouldn't be much good for sedating children.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by aiyoyo on 09.04.12 19:52

Calpol suspension is just paracetamol in syrup form made pleasant for children because it is syruppy sweet (and tastes a bit like strawberry I am told).

Like paracetamol in any form, taken in large dozes and frequency can be fatal, even in adults especially taken with other medication with paracetamol as a large percentage of its composition. If taken with alcohol it doubles the risk factor.

Calpol suspension can be a risk for children too if over administered to children with medical conditions and on other medications.
It's hard to imagine doctors making that kind of mistake. Layperson maybe.

On its own it can also be fatal if overdozed. This can easily happen if it is not restricted to one adult administering it and mistake can happen.

Calpol night contains paracetamol and anti histamine, and I think there was speculation this is the sort that was used on Madeleine.
Don't know the veracity of it, or how the PJ arrived at Calpol as the medication given to Madeleine.

No medicine was found at 5A far as I know.


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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Kololi on 09.04.12 20:03

According to the UK government website the active ingredient is paracetamol.

www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/pl-a/documents/websiteresources/con2030941.pdf

Not sure how to post links so hope that this one works. Apologies if it doesn't work.

And yes, if I recall rightly no more than 6 to 8 per day is recommended Tigger so I am fine with my two at night.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by aiyoyo on 09.04.12 20:14

@Kololi wrote:According to the UK government website the active ingredient is paracetamol.

www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/pl-a/documents/websiteresources/con2030941.pdf

Not sure how to post links so hope that this one works. Apologies if it doesn't work.

And yes, if I recall rightly no more than 6 to 8 per day is recommended Tigger so I am fine with my two at night.

No more than 8 a day with at least 4 hourly intervals.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Kololi on 09.04.12 20:23

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Kololi wrote:According to the UK government website the active ingredient is paracetamol.

www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/pl-a/documents/websiteresources/con2030941.pdf

Not sure how to post links so hope that this one works. Apologies if it doesn't work.

And yes, if I recall rightly no more than 6 to 8 per day is recommended Tigger so I am fine with my two at night.

No more than 8 a day with at least 4 hourly intervals.


Well Aiyoyo how nice of you. And there was me thinking you would chuckle heartily if I took the whole packet at once and with a bottle of gin!!! big grin

Joke btw for those who don't get it.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Nina on 09.04.12 20:24

Wow, thankyou all for your replies.

I, like others, have this impression that anything told is for a reason, and this stain was one of them. Such as if Madeleine was found and she had a stain on her top that was analysed then the query of Kate as to whether it was tea, or a dry run by the "abductor" would clear her. The wine they drank in the apartment before going out also makes me wonder if half a bottle was left in the fridge and found and drunk by a thirsty dopey Madeleine. Wasn't there some tablets belonging Gerry about on the bedroom drawers? I have a vague notion they were some sort of anti allergy type medication. And Kate did mention, how, before going out she had put all medication safely into a bag. Yes I know I will try to find the link

There seems to be quite a lot here,

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1404-spying-for-lying-gerry-mccann-s-denial-of-use-of-cold-medicine?highlight=put+the+medicine+into+a+bag+secure+safely

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Nina on 09.04.12 21:00

@Nina wrote:Wow, thankyou all for your replies.

I, like others, have this impression that anything told is for a reason, and this stain was one of them. Such as if Madeleine was found and she had a stain on her top that was analysed then the query of Kate as to whether it was tea, or a dry run by the "abductor" would clear her. The wine they drank in the apartment before going out also makes me wonder if half a bottle was left in the fridge and found and drunk by a thirsty dopey Madeleine. Wasn't there some tablets belonging Gerry about on the bedroom drawers? I have a vague notion they were some sort of anti allergy type medication. And Kate did mention, how, before going out she had put all medication safely into a bag. Yes I know I will try to find the link

There seems to be quite a lot here,

[url=http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1404-spying-for-lying-gerry-mccann-s-denial-of-use-of-cold-medicine?highlight=put+the+medicine+into+a+bag+secure+safely
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1404-spying-for-lying-gerry-mccann-s-denial-of-use-of-cold-medicine?highlight=put+the+medicine+into+a+bag+secure+safely[/quote[/url]]

And another

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2907-medicines?highlight=put+the+medicines+into+a+bag

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Ribisl on 09.04.12 21:19

Rainbow-fairy - this has been bugging me all evening because I read this article myself a couple of weeks ago but can't recall where. At the time I dismissed it as a complete fantasy and did not bookmark it. I still don't believe there was anything credible about it but if I remember correctly, it basically said that Kate taught JT how to administer anesthesia then asked her to give it to Madeleine on the night she died having given her some kind of medication earlier and therefore knowing that it would cause her death.

Anyway, it's something else for the pot as Tigger says, and it wouldn't do us any harm to push the limits of our imagination from time to time since we are dealing with perpetual liars.

Sami - well done with your experiment. thumbup

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 10.04.12 0:01

@Ribisl wrote:Rainbow-fairy - this has been bugging me all evening because I read this article myself a couple of weeks ago but can't recall where. At the time I dismissed it as a complete fantasy and did not bookmark it. I still don't believe there was anything credible about it but if I remember correctly, it basically said that Kate taught JT how to administer anesthesia then asked her to give it to Madeleine on the night she died having given her some kind of medication earlier and therefore knowing that it would cause her death.

Anyway, it's something else for the pot as Tigger says, and it wouldn't do us any harm to push the limits of our imagination from time to time since we are dealing with perpetual liars.

Sami - well done with your experiment.
Thank you Ribisl! I feel vindicated now. Its killing me trying to remember which thread it was in and who posted it... I'm 99.999% certain it was in amongst a thread here, but after 380 posts I still didn't find it - mind I think i'd gone cross-eyed by the end Wink
The only other thing I can think is it was removed, but why?
That is exactly the e-mail I mean as well. I knew I hadn't dreamt it...
I just think it would explain a lot, if true - JT's over-eagerness to help, for starters... It could also mean when K+G so weakly proclaim they 'had nothing to do with what happened', they are half-correct?
Hmmm.
Its funny, I go away for an hour or so and my little topic mushrooms in my absence. Typical!
I'm going to sleep on this and post more tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for the replies, but remember - we are still missing that 'key' piece of info (the e-mail itself) so if anyone knows the whereabouts of said key, any info greatly appreciated Wink

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Lady-Heather on 10.04.12 0:23

This may be somewhat off-topic but I remember there was a medicine called 'Medised' (infact still is) which used to be given to young babies and toddlers. I remember it was the only medication that would ensure that my son got a peaceful night's sleep whenever he got a cold or virus which meant he couldn't breathe properly. This was at age 3 months old.

It was restricted shortly after we began to use it in our babies, the new minimum age was 6+ years. I clearly remember one night I had given DS Medised, aged 2, he came in to my bedroom scared and crying, describing in the best way he could that some kind of monster or 'thing' was trying to get him. I read later that hallucinations were one of the side-effects of Medised, and that 6+ yrs was newly recommended as children at that age could distinguish between reality & nightmares, and could more easily articulate their nightmares & dreams to their parents.

The active ingredient in Medised is Diphenhydramine, also present in 'Calpol Night'.

Perhaps nothing, but in the short time that I have looked after young children, it's something that has stood out for me in pharmaceutical terms in relation to the medication & safety of young children & infants.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Spaniel on 10.04.12 1:00

Luckily, I'm not a sufferer of Hay fever so not sure, but could Madeleine have been? I was thinking, as she sometimes had bags beneath her eyes and the Mcs had anti-histamines with them I believe.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 10.04.12 7:38

@rainbow-fairy wrote:Recently I was reading a thread, I can't for the life of me remember which one, in which someone uploaded a screen shot of an e-mail a man in London had written.

He stated he had 'information'

He alleged that the 'demise' of MBM had been planned for months, and that the holiday friends, including Jane, were especially picked for a reason. Apparently Kate had been training Jane how to sedate her children.

The man then said that on the night in question, Jane was asked to give Maddie a sedative (which IIRC she'd been given one already). When Maddie was found, Jane understandably thought she had killed her, and that is why she and ROB 'went along' with everything.



Please does anyone remember this e-mail? If so, post it please?

I'd just like to discuss it and see if it 'goes' anywhere really.





http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/kate-and-gerry-mccann-what-did-you-do.html

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on 10.04.12 8:02

@Spaniel wrote:Luckily, I'm not a sufferer of Hay fever so not sure, but could Madeleine have been? I was thinking, as she sometimes had bags beneath her eyes and the Mcs had anti-histamines with them I believe.

I think the hay fever tablets were for Gerry. According to the PJ files.
But possibly the concern was if they were used to get the children to sleep. Even the non-drowsy ones put me to sleep so they could really knock a small child out for the night.


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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on 10.04.12 8:06

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Recently I was reading a thread, I can't for the life of me remember which one, in which someone uploaded a screen shot of an e-mail a man in London had written.

He stated he had 'information'

He alleged that the 'demise' of MBM had been planned for months, and that the holiday friends, including Jane, were especially picked for a reason. Apparently Kate had been training Jane how to sedate her children.

The man then said that on the night in question, Jane was asked to give Maddie a sedative (which IIRC she'd been given one already). When Maddie was found, Jane understandably thought she had killed her, and that is why she and ROB 'went along' with everything.



Please does anyone remember this e-mail? If so, post it please?

I'd just like to discuss it and see if it 'goes' anywhere really.





http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/kate-and-gerry-mccann-what-did-you-do.html

It follows Dr. Ludke's analysis perfectly. He posits planning at least months before. I'm totally with him. His was a very early analysis, before they were made arguidos. (it's on a sticky here I think)

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 10.04.12 9:32

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Recently I was reading a thread, I can't for the life of me remember which one, in which someone uploaded a screen shot of an e-mail a man in London had written.

He stated he had 'information'

He alleged that the 'demise' of MBM had been planned for months, and that the holiday friends, including Jane, were especially picked for a reason. Apparently Kate had been training Jane how to sedate her children.

The man then said that on the night in question, Jane was asked to give Maddie a sedative (which IIRC she'd been given one already). When Maddie was found, Jane understandably thought she had killed her, and that is why she and ROB 'went along' with everything.



Please does anyone remember this e-mail? If so, post it please?

I'd just like to discuss it and see if it 'goes' anywhere really.





http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2008/10/kate-and-gerry-mccann-what-did-you-do.html
Get 'Em, I know you probably hear this all the time. But - I.Love.You!!! Thank you thank you thank you - I really was beginning to think I'd dreamt the whole thing! You are a star.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Guest on 10.04.12 10:09

@aiyoyo wrote:Calpol suspension is just paracetamol in syrup form made pleasant for children because it is syruppy sweet (and tastes a bit like strawberry I am told).

Like paracetamol in any form, taken in large dozes and frequency can be fatal, even in adults especially taken with other medication with paracetamol as a large percentage of its composition. If taken with alcohol it doubles the risk factor.

Calpol suspension can be a risk for children too if over administered to children with medical conditions and on other medications.
It's hard to imagine doctors making that kind of mistake. Layperson maybe.

On its own it can also be fatal if overdozed. This can easily happen if it is not restricted to one adult administering it and mistake can happen.

Calpol night contains paracetamol and anti histamine, and I think there was speculation this is the sort that was used on Madeleine.
Don't know the veracity of it, or how the PJ arrived at Calpol as the medication given to Madeleine.

No medicine was found at 5A far as I know.


There is a thread on the medicines aiyoyo and this piece in which Goncalo Amaral states no medicines were found at 5a, and yet KM says this in her witness statement............




[quote="candyfloss"]Whilst reading something, I came across this, ......

Interview with Mr Amaral

8/05/2011 02:00
Dave said... 9

Part 2 of 2. Goncalo Amaral Interview at the launch of his books dutch version
"A verdade da mentira"
05/05/09

Q: Is it true, as was reported in De Telegraaf, that an injection needle was found in the apartment?

A: No, that is not true. In fact we have found no medication at all. None at all. Except for ‘likdoornpleisters’ = litt.: corn plasters (for your feet – sorry can’t find a better translation).Q: Do you think the children were sedated?

A: There is no doubt.
(Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called a colleague of Gonçalo Amaral’s in the PJ, in August, to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)


And yet in her witness statement 6th September Kate says this:.................................

.When asked, she said that before they left she took some precautions, namely placed the medicine inside a bag with a clasp in her room inside the wardrobe or the dresser. These were Calpol (paracetamol) and Nurofen (ibuprofen), for fevers and pains, both for adults and children (packages in liquid for the children). In this bag there was also a small pair of scissors. In the kitchen were cutting items that were used to prepare the meals and which were not put out of sight. During their trips it was normal for them to take these medicines. During these holidays she never gave any medicine to her children, nor did Gerry. She now says that Gerry also took medicine for acidity called Losec (omeprozole) which they also possessed.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta5


http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2907-medicines?highlight=The+medicines

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by russiandoll on 10.04.12 10:10

well as glad as I am this has been located and you are happy you are not mad, this is for me in the realms of complete speculation, outlandish and if you google steve bywaters there is a link to steel magnolia where he elaborates on this and what he claims without any evidence for his theory, is outrageous to say the least and is the kind of stuff that if we subscribe to it in any way will get us a deserved reputation for being wicked, crazy and not taken seriously. What he claims is so dreadful I won't dare post it here...just google him and go to the comments on the steel magnolia page where this same short piece about the sedation training is posted.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Guest on 10.04.12 10:52

@tigger wrote:
@Spaniel wrote:Luckily, I'm not a sufferer of Hay fever so not sure, but could Madeleine have been? I was thinking, as she sometimes had bags beneath her eyes and the Mcs had anti-histamines with them I believe.

I think the hay fever tablets were for Gerry. According to the PJ files.
But possibly the concern was if they were used to get the children to sleep. Even the non-drowsy ones put me to sleep so they could really knock a small child out for the night.


Yes, they did take antihistamines.,


GM arguido statement 6th September 2007

When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine, for hay fever. He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta5

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by nomendelta on 10.04.12 11:18

I think there is a tendency with some of us to latch on to more outlandish theories because the whole case stinks of something really beyond our comprehension.

One would have to presume that if Maddie was murdered or died accidentally that many if not all of the tapas 9, including of course her parents, are in on the secret. What would bind 9 people together to protect the secret? This together with how the McCanns have behaved in public - completely inappropriately for people who are worried about their abducted daughter and even more chillingly if they are responsible (accidentally or otherwise) for the child's death.

I personally can't imagine a scenario where I'd be quiet about such a thing so the more outlandish theories - some kind of experiment, cloned Maddie's, there was never actually a Maddie and the whole thing was set up to highlight chipping...they appeal because it's more palatable than the notion that 9 people can share and keep a dark, nasty secret in this way.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 10.04.12 11:33

@russiandoll wrote:well as glad as I am this has been located and you are happy you are not mad, this is for me in the realms of complete speculation, outlandish and if you google steve bywaters there is a link to steel magnolia where he elaborates on this and what he claims without any evidence for his theory, is outrageous to say the least and is the kind of stuff that if we subscribe to it in any way will get us a deserved reputation for being wicked, crazy and not taken seriously. What he claims is so dreadful I won't dare post it here...just google him and go to the comments on the steel magnolia page where this same short piece about the sedation training is posted.
russiandoll, I found the SteelMagnolia page in question, but no comments came up? Could you tell me how to find them, please?
All I could see was the e-mail Get 'Em posted above, no expansion?

I certainly won't dismiss it out of hand, for fear of seeming wicked or anything else. It actually answers a lot of questions that those who scoff ask us, and last time I checked, we are all, crazy and wicked ghouls for daring to question Kate and Gerry's tale anyway!
As outlandish and unsubstantiated goes, I've heard far, far worse... A lot of what we discuss is speculation, based on known 'evidence' - I believe this e-mail falls into that category.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Merrymo on 10.04.12 11:53

@tigger wrote:JT and possibly ROB (and wasn't there a suggestion that ROB had tried to revive Maddie? (Definitely seen some post to that effect) how reliable - sorry - don't know - sometimes it doesn't hurt to throw suggestions into the ring.

JT gave Gerry an alibi and later helpfully pointed out Murat - she identified Murat positively. From Kate's diary we already know she didn't like him.

But JT did not positiviely identify Murat. After the 'identity parade' she said that she could not say either way whether it was him because she was not able to get a clear view of him during the 'parade'. One thing is for certain and that is if JT had made a positive identification of Murat she would have been immediately taken to the police station to make and sign a formal statement to that effect. This did not happen.

After telling the police that she was unable to make an identification they phoned through to their Headquarters to ask whether she would be required to sign anything. The answer was no.


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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by Guest on 10.04.12 12:12

Rainbow-Fairy, I think this link has the further comment from Steve B.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/seeking-steve-bywaters/

It's inevitable that theories like this will flourish in the absence of anything resembling honesty from Team McCann.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 10.04.12 12:19

My thinking on this (I will try to make it as logical and straightforward as I can) in a 'question by doubters' and answer fashion.
1)Why PdL?
A: Robert Murat lived there. It is likely that both Jane Tanner and Gerry McCann knew him personally, if not the rest of the group.

2)Why would Jane Tanner give an alibi for and cover-up, risking all, for a couple she barely knew?
A: Who is to say she was helping Gerry, per se? What's to say she wasn't helping herself first and foremost - whilst keeping Gerry onside (you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours type thing)

3)Why would the other couples cover for Kate and Gerry? They hardly knew them - the 3 other couples socialised most.
A: Indeed - so could it be that they were covering primarily for Jane, if she believed she had unwittingly killed a child; then covered by default for the McCanns?

4)How would over-sedation account for the blood found?
A: If Maddie had been sedated in so much it didn't kill her, but made her drowsy, dizzy and un co-ordinated? It could account for the blood if she woke, and groggily fell - fits perfectly.
Don't forget all the talk of 'bumps to heads' we had in the T9 statements, Rachel Mampilly stating 'there would be someone who could try to resuscitate a child'. Perhaps she was beyond saving by this point.

A hypothetical dialogue, maybe between them...

GMC: "My God Jane, how much did you give her?"
JT: "Exactly the right amount"
G: "You can't have done! You've killed our daughter! You need to help us, or we'll all go down"
J: "Oh God, oh God, what have I done? What can I do? We need to tell someone..."
G: "We can't Jane - think about it. You'd go to prison, your kids would lose you - likely we'd all lose our careers. I've got a plan - here's what we'll do..."

And the 'abduction' was born. It answers more questions than it raises, for me.
Obviously, not saying its true - which is why I'd like to discuss it properly and sensibly (no diversions - you know who you are!)

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Jane Tanner - did she think she had killed Madeleine?

Post by tigger on 10.04.12 12:26

@Merrymo wrote:
@tigger wrote:JT and possibly ROB (and wasn't there a suggestion that ROB had tried to revive Maddie? (Definitely seen some post to that effect) how reliable - sorry - don't know - sometimes it doesn't hurt to throw suggestions into the ring.

JT gave Gerry an alibi and later helpfully pointed out Murat - she identified Murat positively. From Kate's diary we already know she didn't like him.

But JT did not positiviely identify Murat. After the 'identity parade' she said that she could not say either way whether it was him because she was not able to get a clear view of him during the 'parade'. One thing is for certain and that is if JT had made a positive identification of Murat she would have been immediately taken to the police station to make and sign a formal statement to that effect. This did not happen.

After telling the police that she was unable to make an identification they phoned through to their Headquarters to ask whether she would be required to sign anything. The answer was no.



Look! I do colour too! From Joanna Morais blogspot:

We’ll return now to the sequence of events that led to Murat’s being pulled in for questioning. He was made an ‘arguido’ on Monday 14 May, immediately following a positive identification of him as the alleged abductor by the McCanns’ friend Jane Tanner, which we deal with in more detail later. He was questioned later that day. Below, we examine in detail the information Murat gave to police on 14 May, but perhaps first we should discuss how the identification that Robert Murat was the abductor was made by Tanner. We also need to examine the separate, but clearly related, claim by three other members of the ‘Tapas 9’ group that they saw Robert Murat hanging around the Ocean Club complex near the McCanns’ apartment on the night that Madeleine disappeared. But before all that we’ll look at what Murat did on the Friday and Saturday after Madeleine was reported missing.
unquote

Do your research, I will not answer any of your posts here or anywhere - and hope that no-one else will bother either.
THEN YOU WON'T MESS UP MORE TOPICS

lol4

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