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Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by sami on 15.04.12 17:37

@Ribisl wrote:225 to 227 Witness statement of Stacey Portz 2007.05.06

- As part of her work she frequently takes the children for swimming, walks on the beach and to the garden [play area] next to the tennis courts.
- Knew the McCann family since 29th of April as they would drop off their toddlers, Sean and Amelie, in the Toddler Club;
- From 29 April until 3 May she was with those children every day.
- She also knew Madeleine as she would frequently come talk to her brother and sister when picked up by her parents;
- She never had Madeleine in her care.
- From what she was able to observe, Madeleine was an active and sociable child and that when with her siblings [at collection time] she was excited and happy to see them.

Going back to the 3rd, I have been going through PJ files and cannot find any witness who saw Madeleine after her tea with or without Gerry. Catriona Baker appears to be the last witness who saw her alive at around 5.30. This gives a window of just under five hours in which Madeleine 'disappeared'.

Just with regard to this nanny's statement. I thought from having read the creche sheets Kate went to one creche and Gerry went to the other. The impression I had was they then went for high tea. This statement seems to suggest that Kate, Gerry and Madeleine all called into collect the twins, or indeed Madeleine would be with whichever parent was collecting the twins.

Or am I wrong, did Kate or Gerry do both collections a number of times.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Ribisl on 15.04.12 18:07

Sami - Stacey Portz's statement does not specifically refer to the 3rd and the creche records cannot be relied on. There appear to be three possible scenarios leading up to 17.30 while Kate was having her run:
1. Gerry collected the children and took them to have tea in the Tapas area.
or
2. Catriona Baker took them to have tea in the Tapas area.
or
3. Gerry collected them but asked Catriona to supervise their tea and wait for Kate to take them back to the apartment.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by sami on 15.04.12 18:27

@Ribisl wrote:Sami - Stacey Portz's statement does not specifically refer to the 3rd and the creche records cannot be relied on. There appear to be three possible scenarios leading up to 17.30 while Kate was having her run:
1. Gerry collected the children and took them to have tea in the Tapas area.
or
2. Catriona Baker took them to have tea in the Tapas area.
or
3. Gerry collected them but asked Catriona to supervise their tea and wait for Kate to take them back to the apartment.

Thanks Ribisl, what I am suggesting is that in order for Stacey Portz to have seen Madeleine in the manner in which she says she did, Madeleine would have had to arrive to collect the twins with either Kate, or Gerry or both. I do not recall from memory any of the records showing that either Kate or Gerry were shown to have done both collections by themselves on any occasion. So was it at the high tea Stacey used to see them ? But this is not the impression I get from her statement. I know like everything else we cannot rely on the creche records but if they show differently it would beg the question is what Stacey is saying correct. I will go forth and search the creche sheets.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by tigger on 15.07.13 8:37

This too, is a good topic to bump up as it has lots of factual information, references and witness statements.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by Kepharel on 15.07.13 21:11

@tigger wrote:This too, is a good topic to bump up as it has lots of factual information, references and witness statements.

 Couldn't agree more..Just cut and pasted the whole lot into my 'One Note' program...this is the forum at it's best IMO.  Will certainly help in my research :)

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by aiyoyo on 16.07.13 4:29

@Ribisl wrote:Sami - Stacey Portz's statement does not specifically refer to the 3rd and the creche records cannot be relied on. There appear to be three possible scenarios leading up to 17.30 while Kate was having her run:
1. Gerry collected the children and took them to have tea in the Tapas area.

That cannot be right, because Kate's signature was on record as having signed Madeleine out at 5.30pm.
Concurrently she was supposedly also running on the beach.

How can it be possible for Gerry to be 3 places at the same timing ie having tea with Maddie 5.30  at the Tapas follows by  bathing the children in the apt before leaving at 6.00 clockish for men's tennis (Kate's statement) when according to DP, he departed from the beach at about 6.00 to join Gerry who he knew was already at the Tennis Court playing tennis with other friends (not of their group).

If DP had pre knowledge of Gerry's schedule ie that he was going to be the Tennis Court having games with people outside the group, when he went to join up with him there, how then can Kate's statement be correct?  Remember the T9 claimed not to bring phones out for social activities, so DP arrangement with Gerry must have been made very early in the day before they each leave to do their own activities.

If Gerry had done all of those things as per Kate's statement (ie collected Madeleine, had tea with her at Tapas, bathed her before leaving for men's Tennis) why did Gerry dispatch Payne to check on Kate when he had only left her a few minutes ago?

Moreover, can all those things be done within 30 minutes or less - collect, walk to tapas, eat (dont forget wait for orders to arrive)  walk to apt, bathe, left before 6.00 to join Men's Tennis for 6.00pm?


or
2. Catriona Baker took them to have tea in the Tapas area.
or
3. Gerry collected them but asked Catriona to supervise their tea and wait for Kate to take them back to the apartment.

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Re: Who saw Madeleine on the 3rd of May?

Post by tigger on 16.07.13 19:58

I may posting something already discussed, but I like Dr. Roberts' careful analysis of events. This is taken from
'Seventeen come Sunday' October 2012 McCannfiles.com

Talking about May 3rd this time, she writes (p.66):

"Together we took Sean and Amelie back to the Toddler Club at around 2.40 p.m. and dropped Madeleine off with the Minis ten minutes later. Ella was already there...Having arranged for Gerry to meet the children, I opted to go for a run along the beach...I wondered whether Madeleine had been OK about staying behind at Mini Club when Russ or Jane had collected Ella.

"I had finished my run by five-thirty at the Tapas area, where I found Madeleine and the twins already having their tea with Gerry."

There is no ambiguity here. For Kate to meet up with the rest of her family at 5.30 p.m. at the Tapas Bar, husband Gerry (or someone else at the very least) must have collected all the children previously, Kate 'having arranged for Gerry to meet the children.' The minis register for May 3rd does indeed record Madeleine's arrival at 2.50 p.m., ten minutes after the twins were deposited and with Ella already there. But who signed Madeleine out again afterwards? Why, none other than Kate McCann - at 5.30 p.m. Exactly the moment when she tells readers of her chronicle that she encountered Madeleine elsewhere, already in the company of Gerry and the twins. And if anyone 'close to the McCanns' wishes to insist that Kate merely failed to clarify her own collection of Madeleine from the kids' club nearby, then perhaps they can also explain how she managed to pick the twins up five minutes before that, as her signature on the 'jellyfish' crèche register for May 3rd indicates.

unquote

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