The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.


Jill Havern
Forum owner

The Book

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The Book

Post by tuom on 07.04.12 13:58

Afternoon All ,

I have only recently read KMC's book , and I now studying it a little closer , some of what I saw has been dealt with here already and I have tried to read them all , but I do have a few things that would need clarification, so is this the right place to post about the book ?

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by Guest on 07.04.12 14:01

Yes, that's fine tuom thumbsup

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tigger on 07.04.12 14:16

I don't know immediately where you would find it, but Russian Doll found quite a few questions in the book.
e.g. the crying episode - at one point Gerry and Kate wondered if she'd been crying when she was having a bath. Which immediately ( thumbup RD) begged the question, if they had to wonder - then they weren't there when Maddie was being bathed. So who did that?

The book is full of this stuff, I'm afraid that the revised paperback version may have taken note of our comments and changed quite a few things!

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3580-were-the-chilren-ever-unsupervised-at-bath-timequestion-arising-from-madeleine-book

____________________
Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

tigger

Posts : 8112
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2011-07-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 07.04.12 14:29

@tigger wrote:I don't know immediately where you would find it, but Russian Doll found quite a few questions in the book.
e.g. the crying episode - at one point Gerry and Kate wondered if she'd been crying when she was having a bath. Which immediately ( RD) begged the question, if they had to wonder - then they weren't there when Maddie was being bathed. So who did that?

The book is full of this stuff, I'm afraid that the revised paperback version may have taken note of our comments and changed quite a few things!



Thank you I am going through RD posts on this subject also.

Chapter 1 full of I , we , no mention of MMC yet , for me the story began in May 2007 as did the diaries of KMC, did the public really need all that rambling details of their background ?

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 07.04.12 15:22

This Chapter is entitled Madeline yet it starts as page 31 and it is page 40 before she is mentioned , again all the details of eggs , sperm is totally not needed in this book , a brief reference to IVF would have been sufficent.



On the birth of MMC , I am remebering the births of my own three , as it is a long time ago I find KMC words rather strange

" our daughter was perfect, beautiful round head, no marks, not at all squashed, big big eyes, lovely compact little body"

Perhaps the fact that she is a doctor that she described the baby like this but it does seem clinical to me

Chapter 3 drones on again , poor gerry had to care for MMC when he came home from work, KMC was so protective that she refused to travel as the car seat was wobbling very very slightly ! GMC thought she was over the top but KMC always erred on the side of caution ! 2004 annus horribilis !

On the birth of the twins "shocked by this boy of mine, wasnt the prettiest, he was squashed and his head was lop sided, Amelie was beautiful from the start ,

Towards the end of this chapter we get to going on the Holiday which IMO is where the book perhaps with a brief description of the family before May 2007 should have started.

I will be back later as I want to re read the upcoming chapters and to finish reading RD's post on the book.

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by anil39200 on 07.04.12 16:02

I notice that the book is being offered in the 'used' section of Amazon from 44p, which must be quite galling. Having read it, Imo, I do not think it is particularly well written, believe it is aimed at a 'sympathetic' section of the book buying public , contains very little information about the child, lots of info about the writer's feelings, it is sometimes, bitter, vindictive and vicious, not to mention the question of page 129, which contains lines
I cannot understand the reasoning for.
All on my opinion.
My understanding is that the book is meant to aid the parents search and theory true account of what happened. If we cut through all the me, myself, I, references and look at the situation that the mother says she 'found' her daughter missing and compare that with their recent Scandanavian interviews where they say they still do not know what happened then what is left is a 'true'


account of what they SAY or Believe happened. This would therefore amount to no more than a theory, or worse guesswork. The mother stated in a tv interview in Portugal that she KNEW what had happened, in the recent interview, where the daughter's looks we are informed would make her blend in Scamdanavia, the father stated they did NOT know what happened. This was the infamous Portugal doesn't have a Royal Navy interview I believe. So, just taking those few points, how do they expect people to 'search' on their behalf when there are so many discrepancies. IMO. More to the point, the stuff I have written above is not rocket science so I cannot understand how people can be so gullible as to not question the given version of events. To lose a child must be devastating, but the manner of the aftermath of this particular story raises more questions than answers.

anil39200

Posts : 388
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-09-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 07.04.12 16:51

[quote="anil39200"]I notice that the book is being offered in the 'used' section of Amazon from 44p, which must be quite galling. Having read it, Imo, I do not think it is particularly well written, believe it is aimed at a 'sympathetic' section of the book buying public , contains very little information about the child, lots of info about the writer's feelings, it is sometimes, bitter, vindictive and vicious, not to mention the question of page 129, which contains lines


Oh my that really must be galling ! at 44p it would be too much for me , I did not buy it and TY to a poster who provided the link to it online.



Ok the Holiday , from that chapter after reading through again long drawn out descriptions of boring content I find the following points strange:

Sat Aug 28th 2007 KMC says " by this stage even I was feeling quite up for it " you were going on holidays for God's sake !

After the first few days we barely used the front door , coming and going through the patio doors and up and down the steps

There is a picture plan in the book of the apartment , looking at the way the bedroom door opens would'nt MMC's bed be the first to be seen on looking into the bedroom ? I must check the case files again as to what M. Olfield said about not seeing MMC's bed and that he could see the twins and I think the MC's said that they used to leave a light on in the living room or the hallway

MMC never woke before 2 or 3 in the morning, Oh thats fine so , once we are back before then all is fine and dandy

They are more precious and special to me than life itself and I would never knowlingly place them at risk no matter how small a risk it might seem to be............. leaving them alone ???

KMC mentions that lunchtimes were full of tales from the kids club ......... a little bit more information here would have been nice

Gerry and I like to have routine, though we are not obsessed by it ............ you are on holidays !

There is mention in this chapter of MMC new holiday sandals ........... my kids are long grown and flown and I can only comment that even to me those sandals do not look new and are even old fashioned looking,

Then we have the ice creams on the beach ......... " I was momentarily torn" in her subconscious she thought of abduction at this time

The pink running shoes......... way too much information , attacked by a dog in a foreign country and yet there is no mention of it as being important, I know I would certainly have sought attention , especially if the skin was broken............ oops I forgot they were all doctors

Gerry leaves the Tapas abruptly leaving KMC upset and embarrassed but this is only a storm in a teacup and though she found him snoring and had to sleep in the other room , she makes no big deal of it, placing myself in that position , if my husband did that he would get a right earfull the following morning

Well back to my reading

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by russiandoll on 07.04.12 19:35

IMO a lot of attention needs paying to things that are skimmed over, dismissed as trivial or omitted by Kate in her book,[ e.g, info in the files]. I too believe the sleeping apart occasion was much more than she made of it.

Take a look at her check from when she entered 5a, the ridiculous amount of detail about opening and closing doors, her movements around 5a... what she claims to have done re the bedroom door is nonsense if she is going to visuallly check her daughter.

And why so little info about 30th April, nothing mentioned apart from the supermarket and the evening meal is referred to, this is a day according to creche records when the twins stayed in creche all afternoon until tea time at 5.30 but Maddie was in for just 15 minutes and out for 2 hours prior to 5.30...where was she and who was she with? She might have been unhappy in creche, unwell so removed, might have had some alone time with her Mum, Dad or both......why not tell us when Kate went into so much mundane detail about other days?


____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 07.04.12 19:46

@russiandoll wrote: IMO a lot of attention needs paying to things that are skimmed over, dismissed as trivial or omitted by Kate in her book,[ e.g, info in the files]. I too believe the sleeping apart occasion was much more than she made of it.

Take a look at her check from when she entered 5a, the ridiculous amount of detail about opening and closing doors, her movements around 5a... what she claims to have done re the bedroom door is nonsense if she is going to visuallly check her daughter.

And why so little info about 30th April, nothing mentioned apart from the supermarket and the evening meal is referred to, this is a day according to creche records when the twins stayed in creche all afternoon until tea time at 5.30 but Maddie was in for just 15 minutes and out for 2 hours prior to 5.30...where was she and who was she with? She might have been unhappy in creche, unwell so removed, might have had some alone time with her Mum, Dad or both......why not tell us when Kate went into so much mundane detail about other days?




I totally agree with you on this RD, as I said in my post "tales from the kids club" why not tell us some of the fun things that MMC did ? arts and crafts. did she bring any back with her ( I remember having to wear a silly hat that my youngest made while we were in Malta ) instead we get a rambling and boring story about a pair of runners for God's sake, RD I am up to the crying episode and MMC strange remark, I am going to read some more posts on this and reread this section of the book as IMO this could be a key point in this.

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by rainbow-fairy on 07.04.12 20:28

@tuom wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: IMO a lot of attention needs paying to things that are skimmed over, dismissed as trivial or omitted by Kate in her book,[ e.g, info in the files]. I too believe the sleeping apart occasion was much more than she made of it.

Take a look at her check from when she entered 5a, the ridiculous amount of detail about opening and closing doors, her movements around 5a... what she claims to have done re the bedroom door is nonsense if she is going to visuallly check her daughter.

And why so little info about 30th April, nothing mentioned apart from the supermarket and the evening meal is referred to, this is a day according to creche records when the twins stayed in creche all afternoon until tea time at 5.30 but Maddie was in for just 15 minutes and out for 2 hours prior to 5.30...where was she and who was she with? She might have been unhappy in creche, unwell so removed, might have had some alone time with her Mum, Dad or both......why not tell us when Kate went into so much mundane detail about other days?




I totally agree with you on this RD, as I said in my post "tales from the kids club" why not tell us some of the fun things that MMC did ? arts and crafts. did she bring any back with her ( I remember having to wear a silly hat that my youngest made while we were in Malta ) instead we get a rambling and boring story about a pair of runners for God's sake, RD I am up to the crying episode and MMC strange remark, I am going to read some more posts on this and reread this section of the book as IMO this could be a key point in this.
I have this nasty feeling in the pit of my stomach about this crying in the bath episode. Gaspar statement springs to mind.

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by Shibboleth on 07.04.12 21:45

Kate asks Maddy when she was crying. Was it when she was having her bath? This would imply that Kate did not know, because Kate was not there when Maddy was having her bath. So who was there?

____________________
“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” ~ Joseph Stalin, 1897-1953
"If Adolph Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway." ~ Joe Strummer, 1952-2002

Shibboleth

Posts : 500
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2010-10-16
Location : Jaffa - Tel Aviv

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 07.04.12 22:34

@Shibboleth wrote:Kate asks Maddy when she was crying. Was it when she was having her bath? This would imply that Kate did not know, because Kate was not there when Maddy was having her bath. So who was there?



Oh God where is this going, as a Mother of three I cannot think of anyone else that gave my kids a bath except my Mother or Mother in Law, there would never be an occasion where someone else would have bathed my children, and if on holidays or at any other time if they had cried I would certainly know why, how and when they cried

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by rainbow-fairy on 07.04.12 23:49

@Shibboleth wrote:Kate asks Maddy when she was crying. Was it when she was having her bath? This would imply that Kate did not know, because Kate was not there when Maddy was having her bath. So who was there?
David Payne?

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by Guest on 08.04.12 0:03

Tuom: you may not have read this topic before which talks about the strange arrangements whereby David Payne bathed other people's children. http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4559-the-contoversial-gaspar-statement?highlight=gaspar

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by russiandoll on 08.04.12 2:36

I think my first post here was about that little bit in the book which almost went unnoticed...I had heard about the crying episode and Maddie's question to her parents the next morning, but nothing about the circumstances Kate wondered about...

in the statements to police the crying had various permutations...Maddie, the twins, Maddie and one of the twins...

and then in the book.....a reference to crying while settling at bedtime or at bath time? Bizarre indeed as you can only infer that neither parent was present........so who the heck was supervising? It beggars belief that children of that age would be left alone for any length of time......Kate never answers her own question with a reference to Maddie crying when a parent momentarily left to fetch pjs from a bedroom.......I told Maddie I had gone back to her straight away for example........left hanging in the air just like her daughter's question....why didn't you come ?


____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by Guest on 08.04.12 11:08

Re the crying episode GM mentions it in his witness statement 10th May 2007....



He cannot say exactly, but he thinks that on Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom, with KATE, as she had told him that one or both twins were crying, making much noise.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap10


Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by russiandoll on 08.04.12 14:34

candyfloss wrote:Re the crying episode GM mentions it in his witness statement 10th May 2007....



He cannot say exactly, but he thinks that on Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom, with KATE, as she had told him that one or both twins were crying, making much noise.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id261.html#tap10

thanks for posting this....I had forgotten about it ..interesting. Kate does not consider in her book that perhaps this was what her daughter was talking about the next morning, presumably because Maddie had not cried for her and/or Gerry then....she had just got up and gone into their room and into bed with them. Unless she did cry and one of them fetched her but then it would be obvious that was the crying episode and Maddie would have been reminded at breakfast next morning that she was attended to and not ignored.
Something tells me this statement by Gerry describes a real occasion whereas I am suspicious of the notorious crying episode........it is mentioned as is the "I have had the best time ever" that evening at bedtime, merely to place a live Maddie in OC on that day. The only conversations with Maddie [ a chatterbox allegedly] in 5 days.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 08.04.12 16:06

Jean wrote:Tuom: you may not have read this topic before which talks about the strange arrangements whereby David Payne bathed other people's children. [url=http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4559-the-contoversial-gaspar-statement?highlight=gaspar
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4559-the-contoversial-gaspar-statement?highlight=gaspar[/quote[/url]]




tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 08.04.12 20:59

@russiandoll wrote: I think my first post here was about that little bit in the book which almost went unnoticed...I had heard about the crying episode and Maddie's question to her parents the next morning, but nothing about the circumstances Kate wondered about...

in the statements to police the crying had various permutations...Maddie, the twins, Maddie and one of the twins...

and then in the book.....a reference to crying while settling at bedtime or at bath time? Bizarre indeed as you can only infer that neither parent was present........so who the heck was supervising? It beggars belief that children of that age would be left alone for any length of time......Kate never answers her own question with a reference to Maddie crying when a parent momentarily left to fetch pjs from a bedroom.......I told Maddie I had gone back to her straight away for example........left hanging in the air just like her daughter's question....why didn't you come ?




I have read your earlier post on the crying, well done an excellent post , the whole crying episode is astounding , I wonder why they mentioned it at all ? I must go and read some more about it methinks

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by PeterMac on 08.04.12 22:33

If anyone wants a copy PM me.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 13.04.12 23:35

@Shibboleth wrote:Kate asks Maddy when she was crying. Was it when she was having her bath? This would imply that Kate did not know, because Kate was not there when Maddy was having her bath. So who was there?



I am still trying to get my head around this , I must look again but did JT say in one of her statements that one of her girls had an episode at bath time, I think she said something like "she lost it" , if anyone can point me in the right direction , or I may be wrong TY

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by Angelique on 14.04.12 1:21

hi tuom

In JT's Rogatory Statement about a third of the way down - third page I think.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post466.html#p466

Reply "Yeah she’d been running around in the day so, we did umm and ahh about you
know, I think we did think oh shall I stay with her but she’d been so happy all day we
just thought I think she’s fine and we were doing the checks so yeah we didn’t, we
thought you know we thought she was fine, as I say she’d been fine since she’d had
the one which was more from the milk, it was the UHT milk that didn’t agree with
her.”
4078 "And from the comments amongst the group, how were the other children doing?”
Reply "Yeah fine, yeah they were, they were tired. I think the Wednesday night, there was
one night when Exxxx had a complete meltdown and sort of, she’s not sort of a
tantrumy child but she was so tired she just sort of crashed and screamed during bath
time. I think that might have been, I’m not sure if that was the Wednesday, it could
have been the Wednesday but she just had a complete, you know how the kids do

when they’re tired, complete meltdown and there’s screaming and they’re so tired it
was quite hard to settle her but then she just, she just crashed, but there was, I think
that was the Wednesday night that she, I mean by, when we were playing in the play
area she sort of lay on the floor and started, which she doesn’t do at all so we knew
she was, we knew she was shattered at that point. But I think that, I think that was the
Wednesday.”
01.00.47 4078 "Okay. There seems to be nothing left then but to move on to the Thursday.”
Reply "Mm.”
4078 "We have been going a long time and I think I’m going to enforce a break on you.”

____________________
Things aren't always what they seem

Angelique

Posts : 1396
Reputation : 35
Join date : 2010-10-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by russiandoll on 14.04.12 15:24

if I am reading the above correctly then JT has little common sense....her daughter was so shattered pre bedtime that she lay down on the floor yet JT still put her through the bathtime routine......has she never heard of topping and tailing? What most parents do if a child just needs his or her bed and is not very mucky. Silly woman.........why let it get to the stage that her child had a meltdown?



____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Book

Post by tuom on 16.04.12 15:39

@Angelique wrote: tuom

In JT's Rogatory Statement about a third of the way down - third page I think.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post466.html#p466

Reply "Yeah she’d been running around in the day so, we did umm and ahh about you
know, I think we did think oh shall I stay with her but she’d been so happy all day we
just thought I think she’s fine and we were doing the checks so yeah we didn’t, we
thought you know we thought she was fine, as I say she’d been fine since she’d had
the one which was more from the milk, it was the UHT milk that didn’t agree with
her.”
4078 "And from the comments amongst the group, how were the other children doing?”
Reply "Yeah fine, yeah they were, they were tired. I think the Wednesday night, there was
one night when Exxxx had a complete meltdown and sort of, she’s not sort of a
tantrumy child but she was so tired she just sort of crashed and screamed during bath
time. I think that might have been, I’m not sure if that was the Wednesday, it could
have been the Wednesday but she just had a complete, you know how the kids do

when they’re tired, complete meltdown and there’s screaming and they’re so tired it
was quite hard to settle her but then she just, she just crashed, but there was, I think
that was the Wednesday night that she, I mean by, when we were playing in the play
area she sort of lay on the floor and started, which she doesn’t do at all so we knew
she was, we knew she was shattered at that point. But I think that, I think that was the
Wednesday.”
01.00.47 4078 "Okay. There seems to be nothing left then but to move on to the Thursday.”
Reply "Mm.”
4078 "We have been going a long time and I think I’m going to enforce a break on you.”



Thank You

tuom

Posts : 530
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2012-03-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

The book tagged "Faked abduction" on amazon.co.uk

Post by Zozo on 20.04.12 22:13

This is really funny!
On amazon.co.uk someone have created a tag "Faked abduction" for Kate's book. If you browse by tag on amazon and choose that tag, it brings you straight away Kate's book. There is option to vote Yes or No for that tag.
So far around 8 people voted Yes against 0 No.

How embarassing could it be for Kate if this tag gets thousands of votes, suggesting that on amazon her book is in the category of "Faked abduction"

Check out at this link below:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/tag/faked%20abduction?ref_=tag_dpp_cust_itdp_t&store=1

Zozo

Posts : 81
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2012-04-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum