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Was this paper ever sued?

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Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Guest on 03.04.12 9:26

The Telegraph still has the story online about GM and the 24 horas paper claim that he was not Madeleine biological father. In the article Clarence Mitchell says.........


But family spokesman Clarence Mitchell described the reports as "unwarranted, unsubstantiated and totally inaccurate".

He said that the couple planned to sue 24 Horas over the allegations about Madeleine's paternity as soon as their official suspect status was lifted.


"We have up to a year to sue and we will do. Gerry and Kate want to concentrate on the case involving Madeleine and don't want to do anything that may compromise that while they are official suspects," he said.


"But they plan to sue 24 hours and any other media outlets that print these claims as soon as the official suspect status is lifted."



The co-editor of the paper said this............



Yesterday, 24 Horas co-editor, Luis Fontes, said he stood by the story, which he claimed was confirmed by both Portuguese and British pathology sources as well as Leicestershire and Portuguese police.

"It's absolutely – our sources are rock solid," he said. "If they think they can sue us, bring it on."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1565936/McCanns-deny-reports-that-Gerry-is-not-Madeleines-father.html


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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Guest on 03.04.12 9:30

From the 48 questions........

41... Is it true or not that in England you went so far as thinking about handing over Madeleine to a relative to look after?

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by tiny on 03.04.12 9:37

I dont think they ever sued this paper ,i wonder why,maybe there is truth in the story.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by tigger on 03.04.12 9:49

It's always useful to make such a statement.

It may stop other newspapers from running the story and I'm wondering if that is why the Olive Press is such an avid fan of TM.
It's more or less a one-man business and like Tony Bennett, he could stand to lose home, business and everything else.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Guest on 03.04.12 10:00

Sure makes u wonder why they haven't... Could be because its truth in it,but could also be that its so far from truth it do not bother them, because they know its not true.. As it seems to me they only sue them that are closest to the truth putting them in danger of beeing seen as the liers they are...

I believe G is the father, Sean looks like him so if he could make him, no reason he couldnt make Madeleine..

I

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by tiny on 03.04.12 10:38

this statement by luis fontes

Yesterday, 24 Horas co-editor, Luis Fontes, said he stood by the story, which he claimed was confirmed by both Portuguese and British pathology sources as well as Leicestershire and Portuguese police.

"It's absolutely – our sources are rock solid," he said. "If they think they can sue us, bring it on."






makes me think there is some truth in it,why would he name names if he was lying, as it would be easy to check

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Guest on 03.04.12 11:24

@tiny wrote:this statement by luis fontes

Yesterday, 24 Horas co-editor, Luis Fontes, said he stood by the story, which he claimed was confirmed by both Portuguese and British pathology sources as well as Leicestershire and Portuguese police.

"It's absolutely – our sources are rock solid," he said. "If they think they can sue us, bring it on."






makes me think there is some truth in it,why would he name names if he was lying, as it would be easy to check

Dont know why.. Its a media statement. I think I remember reading somewhere in the PJ files that they confirm that G is her father...I THINK I read it, I could also be wrong... :) Its not easy to know anything in this case where lies and truth are entvined so neatly together...

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 03.04.12 23:20

There are linguistic indications that there could be more to the story;
Snipped from 'Analysis of McCann Media Interviews' - Dr Martin Roberts, mccannfiles.com.

[mention][/mention] wrote:SNIPPED:
7. A question of paternity

 
Having no regrets once she was gone seems an unbelievable thing for a parent to say about a missing child in this situation, but there appears to be a reason for it, which we may move toward via GM's response to the October question regarding DNA evidence.

 

"We're certainly not scared, you know, if there is anything in the DNA results and we don't know them and we... we cannot know them, and I don't believe anyone in the press knows them either, but there is nothing in those DNA tests, related to Kate and I, that will show anything other than completely innocent."

 

Besides the break in the statement indicating a suppressed idea, GM's choice of words is intriguing. Turned on its head, the claim is that 'anything incriminating will not be related to Kate and I.' The reports concerned traces of Madeleine's DNA found in both the apartment and the McCanns' hire car. Why should Madeleine not be related to both parents?

 

It was in this same interview that GM struggled for a recollection of Madeleine on the 3rd May.

 

GM: "Just think of all the times... the nice times that we've had in our house, and in her playing, in the playroom with her... with her... the twins."

 

Look at the end of this sentence. Madeleine in the playroom with what? Her toys? Her guinea pig? No. With the twins. Why did GM fight desperately to articulate, or rather not to articulate, the phrase so obviously synonymous with 'the twins', i.e. 'her brother and sister.'? People strongly resist lying under interview, remember. Would this identification have been a lie despite GM's considering how lucky he was "to be the father of three children."?

 

What a strange thought this is to have arisen spontaneously whilst on a family holiday, emphasising, as it does, the three aspect? The notion of children is not qualified in any way. They are not 'fine', 'beautiful', 'adorable' – 'challenging' even. They are simply 'three.' And, taking up from the lack of any regret from the moment of Madeleine's disappearance, we can additionally observe that they were not three after all, but two plus one.

 

Jane Hill, for the BBC, again; concerning the twins: "How do you look to the future for their sake?"

 

GM: "Yeah, I mean, without doubt, they... they help us to continue, you know. This is every parent's worst nightmare and everyone can feel and imagine what we've gone through but, you know, if we'd had discovered all three of the children had gone or if something else had happened, then, you know, we... we'd not have had the same strength and resolution and determination to find Madeleine that Sean and Amelie give us, as well, because we know that they're there, errr... life continues but we need to bring them back... bring Madeleine back as much for them, as for Madeleine, as for us."

 

This is a particularly revealing statement. First we encounter a definition of the situation as 'every parent's worst nightmare.' Parents are invited to ponder exactly what their worst nightmare might be. A parent myself, I venture to suggest that kidnap might come a close second, but would not top the poll. However, it is the hypothetical scenario following that really raises the red flag: All three children missing – 'we need to bring them back'. But 'them' does not include Madeleine, because the McCanns know that 'they' (Sean and Amelie) are 'there' (not here), and Madeleine is referred to separately. GM does not say, simply, "bring them all back."

 

And whose interests are served by Madeleine's return? Best served are the twins, least served – the parents, with Madeleine in-between. That's the declared order of priority.

 

 

Update comment:

 

Martin Roberts

04 June 2009


 
SNIPPED:

Philomena McCann's interview with the BBC on 04 May 2007, offers up another gem:

"Gerry and Kate knew instantly - which is why Kate responded by being hysterical - that someone had snatched her daughter."

So they both realized simultaneously (Gerry did not have to be told) that her daughter was gone.

Also note, the last quote by Philomena seems to confirm there was no abduction, Kate did not 'discover Madeleine gone' - whatever happened K+G became aware at the same time

 

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Estelle on 04.04.12 2:22

I have got the impression that Maddie has always been part of the family but that Gerry nor Kate are the parents and that she was unwanted not just by the McCanns but by her real mother - perhaps Maddie was the result of a one night stand and as Catholics, they do not believe in abortion she went through with the birth.

IMO Maddie could be Jackie McCann's daughter. She is Gerry's sister and is older than him which made her an older mother at the time - hence probable birth defects and difficulties. It appears she was pregnant and had a partner who was murdered by a Scott Peterson but I cannot find any record of it ever happening. I think the story was made up for the media and for Jackie to earn some money as she was a cleaner. Jackie has been hidden from us - no photos. I wonder why? I think she could have mental problems.

Perhaps because Gerry and Kate could not have children, they could have agreed to help Jackie out and take Maddie over as if she was born to them. There are no pictures of Kate pregnant nor many of her with Maddie as a baby. Someone pointed out once how her birth certificate could have been forged/falsified.

I would be interested to hear how this might affect the DNA results.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 04.04.12 2:40

@Estelle wrote:I have got the impression that Maddie has always been part of the family but that Gerry nor Kate are the parents and that she was unwanted not just by the McCanns but by her real mother - perhaps Maddie was the result of a one night stand and as Catholics, they do not believe in abortion she went through with the birth.

IMO Maddie could be Jackie McCann's daughter. She is Gerry's sister and is older than him which made her an older mother at the time - hence probable birth defects and difficulties. It appears she was pregnant and had a partner who was murdered by a Scott Peterson but I cannot find any record of it ever happening. I think the story was made up for the media and for Jackie to earn some money as she was a cleaner. Jackie has been hidden from us - no photos. I wonder why? I think she could have mental problems.

Perhaps because Gerry and Kate could not have children, they could have agreed to help Jackie out and take Maddie over as if she was born to them. There are no pictures of Kate pregnant nor many of her with Maddie as a baby. Someone pointed out once how her birth certificate could have been forged/falsified.

I would be interested to hear how this might affect the DNA results.
I just don't know - but there has got to be a very good reason the family's medical records were withheld.
I must say I do find it odd how 'invisible' Jackie is, compared to the rest. She's like a ghost in a way.
I'd expect at least one 'bump' photo of Maddie in tummy, especially as we're told she was a 'much wanted IVF baby'. I have lots of photo's of me with my two bumps... Also, that photo supposedly of K+G in the hospital after Maddie was born - both on chairs (not the bed) - Kate looks like she's been made up for a photoshoot. I've never seen a woman who's just recently given birth looking like that ... Wink

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by tigger on 04.04.12 6:48

It would explain why the whole family was so cooperative - although it's in the nature of such 'clans' to present a united front.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Estelle on 04.04.12 7:04

Re: Jacqueline McCann, Auntie of Madeleine McCann

Jackie is Gerry McCann's youngest sister. I have been told that Jackie has married since so now has a different surname but have forgotten what it is.

Has anyone ever been able to find a photo of her?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/FAMILY.htm

Apparently, she told everyone she was in a relationship with Alan Saunders, an Accountant, who was killed in a street brawl on March 16, 2003 - the year Maddie was born. She would have been in her 40s if she was pregnant at the time and did give birth to Maddie two months later. As an older mother, there could have been birth defects if she had not had an amniocentisis.

Here in this article below she talks with passion about Maddie like the real mother - unlike Kate. IMO Alan Saunders could have been an imaginary character in Jackie's mind so this story put him out of the picture. I suspect this because I cannot find any trace of anything on Alan Saunders nor his murderer, Scott Anderson. IMO she could have had mental problems such as shizophrenia so that could be why she is kept from public view unlike everyone else in the family. Maybe if this is true, the family feel responsible for not doing something before. Sometimes, I feel that in their minds Maddie's passing was a type of euthanasia because of possible health and behavioural problems too difficult for any of them to deal with and they had been told that things were going to get worse as Maddie grew older. Maybe Jackie refused to take Maddie back as she could not have coped with Maddie either. Jackie was a cleaner in a hospital.

IMO Maddie could have been unwanted by Jackie after a one-night stand but as a Catholic was not allowed to have an abortion so she could have given her baby at birth to Gerry and Kate who wanted a child so badly.

Then eventually Maddie became an unwanted child with Kate and Gerry who never seem to have bonded with her so the family rallied around them to help. The lack of bonding makes sense if they are not the real parents. Maddie would have some of the McCann DNA if this is the case.

Many forum members have claimed that Maddie's birth certificate has been falsified/forged by Gerry as to date of birth (Jackie's birthday) and other details. If Maddie did spend Christmas alone when she was 2yo with Grandma McCann it makes sense to me because Jackie may have been there too. IMO Kate's side of the family were not as close to Maddie and put on a pretense in interviews. If Kate had asked a family member to look after Maddie, maybe it was on the McCann side. I often wonder how the PJ knew or suspected this.

A forum member told me once that Kate had told neighbours that Maddie was adopted. Also, another forum member claimed to me in 2007 that she was a friend of a Social Worker in Leicestershire who told her that Gerry McCann phoned her one day to arrange to have Maddie adopted but she talked him out of it. When she heard what had happened to Maddie later, she became very depressed as she felt responsible and then she had a nervous breakdown due to the guilt she suffered and di not work for three months.

NEWS OF THE WORLD
-03-06-2007


Exclusive: I feel like I'm cursed

James Mulholland & Jacqueline McGhie

3 June 2007


"Madeleine's aunt opens heart for first time on boyfriend's brutal murder

SHATTERED Jacqueline McCann fought back tears last night as she spoke about her secret trauma and admitted: I feel there's a jinx on me.

The aunt of missing tot Madeleine McCann bit her lip as she told how she found lover Alan Saunders dying in a pool of blood after a vicious hammer attack.

And as she revealed for the first time the secret agony that still haunts her, the 46-year-old said: "I'll never get the image of Alan lying there out of my mind.

"I still haven't got over losing him. Now this has happened to Madeleine I can't take it all in - I feel like I'm cursed."

Accountant Alan, 39, was battered to death by evil junkie Scott Anderson just yards from the home he shared with Jacqueline.


And last night the traumatised Scot told us: "It was horrific. I told myself it wasn't happening, it was the only way to cope.


"Now I can't work because I'm severely depressed, my concentration is gone. It's all too much."


Distraught Jacqueline, a former hospital cleaner, is the older sister of Maddie's father Gerry McCann (pictured below with wife Kate).


Devastated


She has a special bond with four- year-old Madeleine - who has been missing for 31 days - because they share the same May 12 birthday.


Her disappearance has rocked the entire family - and now devastated Jacqueline is struggling to come to terms with the second heartache.


She told us: "I don't know how much more I can take. They have to find Madeleine, I can't cope with losing someone else so close to me."


Jacqueline and boyfriend Alan had been dating for seven years before he was cruelly taken from her on March 16, 2003.


She explained: "We were really happy together, Alan was a lovely person and so good to me. He was my boyfriend and best friend.


"The only problem we had was the neighbours."


Heroin addict Anderson, now 39, and his girlfriend Diane Ledgerwood, 38, made life hell for everyone living in their quiet street in Busby, Renfrewshire.


The louts blared music day and night as they partied with junkie pals. And the druggies left hypodermic syringes and bags of rubbish strewn in the road.


Jacqueline, who still lives in the street, told us: "We couldn't get any peace and I was really scared. I'd had trouble previously with break- ins and nightmare neighbours at
another house. To go through it again was too much to bear."


After months of silence, mild- mannered Alan snapped as he passed the yobs' drugs den. Anderson shouted abuse from an open window - and it was the last straw for Alan, who yelled at him to clear out of the street.


The strung-out junkie flew into a rage and ran downstairs to rugby-tackle stunned Alan to the ground. Vile Ledgerwood also ran out and joined in, raining down blows on the cowering victim.


Cowardly Anderson then battered Alan on the head five times with a hammer before he and Ledgerwood ran off, leaving him to die.


Neighbours called the police, who broke the horrifying news to distraught Jacqueline.
She told us: "I was taken along the street to identify him.


"It was one of the worst moments of my life, to see the man I loved dying in the road.
"I wasn't ready to say goodbye, I went into total shock and was unable to process what was happening.


"There is so much more I'd have said that night if I'd known that was the last time I'd see him. But he was only going a few streets away to visit his mum, how could I have known?"


Tragic Alan was rushed to nearby Hairmyres Hospital, East Kilbride, but died a few hours later.


Police swooped on the junkies' grotty home where Anderson - who had 26 prior convictions, including one for armed robbery - confessed.


In May 2004 he pled guilty to murder at the High Court in Glasgow. He was sentenced to a minimum of 13 years and is now in Shotts Prison, Lanarks. Charges against Ledgerwood were dropped.


Jacqueline was still struggling to rebuild her life when her beloved niece went missing on May 3. She said: "There was no way I could even think about my birthday on May 12 with Maddie gone. "It's a difficult time anyway, just after the anniversary of Alan's death, but I have to stay strong. "I've been through so much already, I just have to hope and pray that our Madeleine is found."

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by uppatoffee on 04.04.12 7:31

Estelle I have found the following entry in the Scottish Death Indexes  
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk which supports the story. I know that the name Allan was spelt differently, but otherwise it all fits with the story.

Allan Hamilton Saunders      2003     39     Eastwood and Mearns    Renfrewshire

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by tigger on 04.04.12 7:32

There are no pictures of Kate with the new-born Maddie in hospital? The one picture in the book with a pretty baby on her arm and Gerry doing what passed for a delighted smile - but he is clearly photoshopped in, is wearing the same suit he was wearing for the Lisbon court session and another poster thought that Kate's little jacket was definitely post 2004 .

Then the next consideration is that there is a question mark on the birth certificate?

Then the IVF was done in Birmingham. Why? They were doctors, they had connections, I'm sure they would know how to jump the queue.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Estelle on 04.04.12 7:45

@uppatoffee wrote:Estelle I have found the following entry in the Scottish Death Indexes (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) which supports the story. I know that the name Allan was spelt differently, but otherwise it all fits with the story.

Allan Hamilton Saunders 2003 39 Eastwood and Mearns Renfrewshire


Thanks uppatoffee for that. We now know that and that hi sname was spelt "Allan" not "Alan" he was a real person and he did die in 2003. Can you find out the exact date to confirm that?

Now what I cannot find is anything about the court case and his murderer. Can you find that out please?

OK so IMO Jackie would have been probably too devastated about Allan's murder to raise a child alone if, in fact, she was pregnant at the time so Kate and Gerry could have come to the rescue.

Another idea to add to all this is did Jackie agree to be the surrogate mother for Kate and Gerry?

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Estelle on 04.04.12 7:51

@tigger wrote:There are no pictures of Kate with the new-born Maddie in hospital? The one picture in the book with a pretty baby on her arm and Gerry doing what passed for a delighted smile - but he is clearly photoshopped in, is wearing the same suit he was wearing for the Lisbon court session and another poster thought that Kate's little jacket was definitely post 2004 .

Then the next consideration is that there is a question mark on the birth certificate?

Then the IVF was done in Birmingham. Why? They were doctors, they had connections, I'm sure they would know how to jump the queue.

Talking about Birmingham, the paper, Tal etc.? confirmed that they had found the father in Birmingham. Could this have been only because of the IVF having been done there - hence the sperm not the actual man being there at the clinic?

Definitely photoshopped pics, Tigger.

Is anyone good at looking up the birth certificates, etc? There was a long thread once years ago where this was exposed.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Miraflores on 04.04.12 8:31

I don't think this is likely. Madeleine did look very much like Kate and not much like Gerry, unlike Sean who clearly resembles him.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Kololi on 04.04.12 8:46

@Miraflores wrote:I don't think this is likely. Madeleine did look very much like Kate and not much like Gerry, unlike Sean who clearly resembles him.

Absoloutely Miraflores.

There is no mistaking, in my opinion, the likeness between mother and daughter from the photos that have been made available to us.

Just another let's make this fit so we can think the worst of them theory in my humble opinion.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by tigger on 04.04.12 9:00

@Kololi wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:I don't think this is likely. Madeleine did look very much like Kate and not much like Gerry, unlike Sean who clearly resembles him.

Absoloutely Miraflores.

There is no mistaking, in my opinion, the likeness between mother and daughter from the photos that have been made available to us.

Just another let's make this fit so we can think the worst of them theory in my humble opinion.

Must say I can't see that in Sean, but by now things may have changed. You're right about the similarity of Kate and Maddie. The ears for a start.
But it's worth throwing this sort of thing in the pot, so to speak, the lack of normal parental affection and understanding.

It's also quite possible that Jacky really doesn't want much to do with her family - if some of my family got up to these tricks, I'd definitely take myself off.
Philomena, John and Eileen seem to be the main planets circling Gerry's sun.


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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Spaniel on 04.04.12 9:12

@Kololi wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:I don't think this is likely. Madeleine did look very much like Kate and not much like Gerry, unlike Sean who clearly resembles him.

Absoloutely Miraflores.

There is no mistaking, in my opinion, the likeness between mother and daughter from the photos that have been made available to us.

Just another let's make this fit so we can think the worst of them theory in my humble opinion.

I agree that Madeleine is the spitting image of her mother, so no foundation to this theory. I so disagree with you though Kololi, that "make this fit so we can think the worst of them" as had they taken on another's child due to tragic circumstances I would think better of them, not worse.

In fact, had Madeleine bore no resemblance to either parent I still wouldn't believe it as they, in my opinion, put themselves before any child. Even when asked how they see the future for the twins, they turn the reply back to themselves and how they've suffered. They simply don't understand selfless parenting.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Guest on 04.04.12 9:25

Spaniel and Tigger. I really do feel that this story involving the largely absent sister Jacqueline comes into the clutching at straws category. It's not the first time it's been raised on this forum though I can't find the earlier topic now. Jacqueline certainly has my sympathies - not only for the tragedy in 2003 - but for the misfortune of being related to this unsavoury bunch.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by rainbow-fairy on 04.04.12 9:46

Jean wrote: Spaniel and Tigger. I really do feel that this story involving the largely absent sister Jacqueline comes into the clutching at straws category. It's not the first time it's been raised on this forum though I can't find the earlier topic now. Jacqueline certainly has my sympathies - not only for the tragedy in 2003 - but for the misfortune of being related to this unsavoury bunch.
Thank you Jean. I'm fully awake now, unlike at 2 am! I do find it intriguing as to why Jackie McCann is 'incognito' but it happens in all families I guess. Maybe she's a weak link, maybe she just doesn't really get on with them, lots of 'maybe's' but no real evidence. I must say I didn't notice that she was much more impassioned about Maddie then either Kate and Gerry in that article - in fact she was very similar I thought 'I couldn't cope losing someone so close to me'.
Just a reminder, the thrust of the 24 Horas article was that Gerry was not Madeleine's father - so fits those saying how much she looks like Kate - and Dr Roberts concluded (from their own statements) that this is very likely.
I don't, fwiw, rule out a 'surrogate' who carried an embryo though. No pregnancy pictures and her description of her pregnancy and births was airy-fairy wishy-washy, almost 'prudish' - in stark contrast to her supposedly 'medical-minded' p.129 comment!
According to Kate, she had endometriosis, which can cause problems carrying to term or at all (I know). Its possible. But until I see more evidence the 'Jackie Theory' is as unsupported as 'the abduction hypothesis'.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by tigger on 04.04.12 10:06

Jean wrote: Spaniel and Tigger. I really do feel that this story involving the largely absent sister Jacqueline comes into the clutching at straws category. It's not the first time it's been raised on this forum though I can't find the earlier topic now. Jacqueline certainly has my sympathies - not only for the tragedy in 2003 - but for the misfortune of being related to this unsavoury bunch.

Hi Jean, I was already withdrawing from this. I'm for simplicity and this is the opposite. As I said, if my family got up to high jinx, no way would I get involved, certainly make sure I didn't get in the press or have my photograph plastered over the media. Jacqueline seems the only sensible one in keeping out of the limelight. Might just be that she's had the measure of her little brother for a long time.

As the video ( in Forensic Linguistics - Only in America link) explains: people lie because they've got away with it in the past. Many times - the boy is the father of the man.

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by russiandoll on 04.04.12 13:18

Just to give my opinion... while I see a lot of Kate, I also see in the photos of Maddie a resemblance to Gerry. She sometimes looks not as attractive as others and I put this down to her unfortuante link to her uncle coming through more than her likeness to her nice- looking Dad !

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Re: Was this paper ever sued?

Post by Spaniel on 04.04.12 14:23

@russiandoll wrote:Just to give my opinion... while I see a lot of Kate, I also see in the photos of Maddie a resemblance to Gerry. She sometimes looks not as attractive as others and I put this down to her unfortuante link to her uncle coming through more than her likeness to her nice- looking Dad !

You do surprise me me russiandoll, but it's said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." It wouldn't do if we all saw the same, the poor blokes would be flattened in the crush!

I dont find men with flat heads, mean little mouths and darting eyes attractive, but of course attractiveness is far more than superficial looks, so maybe it's his manner that truely influences my judgement.

I will admit he's better looking than his brother, but that's like saying a swede is better looking than a turnip.

As we think he looks so different to his siblings, maybe a new thread is called for, regarding whether he was adopted.

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