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The controversial Gaspar Statement

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by rainbow-fairy on 18.03.12 18:38

@tigger wrote:
@HotlipsHealy wrote:
Jean wrote:It has been stated definitely by PeterMac that the remark does not appear in the book and I have a feeling this might be a forum myth. However I will rummage around and see if I can find a quote anywhere.

According to muratfan's blog it was tigger who mentioned about the professional beautician so maybe tigger can tell us where the information came from?

http://tonybennettmfblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/depraved-and-sick.html

Last thing I want to do is to post wrong info. We've been over this once before, I mistakenly said it was in the book, someone put me right - months ago, but I'm sure I read it around that time and the only other place I can have seen it is in the DM extracts from the book and other articles. It's nearly a year ago, so bear with me. Because the remark and the photograph were associated with articles or extracts from the book, I made the initial mistake.

Here is at lead one other person who remembers it:

Re: 60 Reasons why the McCanns should never have published THAT photo
Shibboleth on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:37 am

PeterMac wrote:
Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I do not believe that piece about professional make artist appears in the Book.
"make-up" appears only twice.
'professional" only 11 times

Please don't let this become a forum myth. Katey may well have said it sometime, somewhere, but not in the book.


I have the Kindle edition and I cannot find it anywhere. I believe it was a magazine article. It was "a friend who is a beautician" as I remember it.

unquote.


tigger, I have to back you up here - I certainly remember the 'beautician' excuse - I'm certain it appeared in a magazine interview with Kate - havent been able to find it though! Odd.

Perhaps it all happened in a parallel universe?

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by dentdelion on 18.03.12 20:31

Yes it was a magazine interview.... as far as I recall.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by rainbow-fairy on 18.03.12 20:36

Tony Bennett (Madeleine Foundation) Blog Inc The Jill Havern Show

TONY BENNETT IS THE FOUNDER OF A DEPRAVED GROUP CALLING THEMSELVES THE MADELEINE FOUNDATION...THESE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAT DOES NOT WANT MADELEINE McCANN FOUND ALIVE... THIS BLOG WILL SHOW YOU WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE LIKE AND HOW VILE THEY REALLY ARE. THIS BLOG IS MY OWN DOING AND NOT AFFILIATED IN ANY WAY WITH ANYONE ELSE...MY THOUGHTS AND MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH AGAINST THE ANTI'S.


DEPRAVED AND SICK


Paedo candy

  tigger on Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:33 am

The Shelfstacker wrote:

Slightly away from the original topic of this thread, but I found this JPEG in an email I was sent some months ago. Not spam, I hasten to add, sent by a colleague as a round robin/ chain. The picture was entitled "Go Figure". Does anyone know where the pictures in the montage come from? Obviously one of them features on the home page of this site but what about the others?





YUK! All four of them are paedo candy IMO. The McC's betray themselves in so many ways. But the blue eyeshadow photo was a BIG mistake and the evolving excuse: raided my make-up box changed in the book to: a professional beautician who was visiting did it...
Has anybody noticed the thick walls under her eyes, it's not normal in most children. Maddie has them in most photos, except a few, like the poster, with the eye. Now they've said she didn't have a coloboma and it was a tiny spot. Another BIG mistake, on record, keep talking!

Posted by murat fan ⁠ ⁠  ⁠ 

1 comments:

Anonymous said...

‪‬

Just so there is no mistake about this NOWHERE IN THE BOOK DOES KATE MCCANN EVEN TALK ABOUT THE PHOTO, LET ALONE MAKE ANY REFERENCE TO A PROFESSIONAL BEAUTICIAN. Sorry to shout, but these blatant, stupid, libelling liars make me mad.
That idiot posts that up and npone of them correct it - why? - because they are as dim as a 10 watt light bulb in a blackout.

6 August 2011 06:15

Post a Comment


tigger, guess you should feel 'honored' (or something) getting your very own post from the fabled 'muratfan'! I'm dreaming of such dizzy heights myself one day Wink

Seriously though, I landed in that hellhole courtesy of hotlipshealy's link. Never again!
I looked at three 'newer posts', NONE of which had any comments (so that's four posts, one comment? Well done mf!) Do ALL their posts consist of tearing apart posts from here? Pa-thetic.
Apologies in advance - this bit is going to be capitals in reply to the red text;
I AM NOT DEPRAVED, NOR AM I SICK.
I WOULD LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO BE ABLE TO BELIEVE THAT MADDIE IS ALIVE. UNFORTUNATELY THE EVIDENCE POINTS ELSEWHERE.
I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT ANY POSTER HERE WANTS MADDIE TO BE DEAD. WHAT WE WANT IS IRRELEVANT.
WHEN I WAS A CHILD I BELIEVED FAIRY STORIES WERE REAL. I DON'T NOW.
I WOULD LOVE THAT EVIL DIDN'T EXIST BUT IT DOES. POOR MADELEINE.

Sorry for the rant, but this 'person' doesn't have a clue about me, or what I wish for.
At least we are trying to do something! What are they doing over there? Ripping apart our posts and slagging off Tony Bennett in the 'name of free speech'. Nice.

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 18.03.12 23:12

Murat fan and his blogs make the ramblings of Bonnybraes and her coven seem reasonably civilised!

I believe that he has young children himself. Does he feel no unease at the sight of photos of a little girl posed inappropriately and plastered in make-up?

What a truly pathetic individual he is to do nothing other than insult the people who believe with a lot of justification that there is something very wrong about this case.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Estelle on 19.03.12 8:47


On another thread, (I think both of these posts could be removed by Mods so am placing them here which is more appropriate)

justme3 wrote:I'm not sure where to put this, but if one of the Mods can put it in the appropriate place.

I can't believe that someone would write this:

....Haltingly, I told him (Gerry) about the awful pictures that scrolled through my head, of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart……………………………..

....The pictures I saw of our Madeleine no sane human being would want in her head, but they were in mine. I simply couldn’t rid myself of these evil scenes in the early days or weeks....

It begs the question, what DID she see? As for some of the other points Kate wrote, I have to question her sanity
I replied (and have changed this a little since):

IMO I also question Kate's sanity, justme3, in stating this in a book for all the world to see!

When I read about Kate writing about "the awful pictures that scrolled through my head, of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart", it suggested to me that this was not just her thoughts of an unknown paedophile perpetrating such a thing on Maddie which Kate tries to implant by suggestion in the reader's mind.

Rather, I suspect that this is a real vision that Kate actually saw on April 28/29 and which haunts her on a daily basis possibly giving her nightmares ever since if she has any sense of guilt or conscience. I have never believed that Kate was the perpetrator or that it was an accident as I actually see Gerry more scheming than Kate is - hence no cadaver found on him. Perhaps she was a witness to a crime or she saw the body later. IMO, Kate has kept quiet about it all because she loves the money, the twins and the celebrity more than she ever loved Maddie.

By the way, what Kate could have meant is that her genitals were "perfectly normal" beforehand and then they were "torn apart".

IMO it is Kate's subconscious talking here - two meanings - superficial for the reader and the subconscious.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Juliette on 19.03.12 12:30

@Estelle wrote:

On another thread, (I think both of these posts could be removed by Mods so am placing them here which is more appropriate)

justme3 wrote:I'm not sure where to put this, but if one of the Mods can put it in the appropriate place.

I can't believe that someone would write this:

....Haltingly, I told him (Gerry) about the awful pictures that scrolled through my head, of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart……………………………..

....The pictures I saw of our Madeleine no sane human being would want in her head, but they were in mine. I simply couldn’t rid myself of these evil scenes in the early days or weeks....

It begs the question, what DID she see? As for some of the other points Kate wrote, I have to question her sanity
I replied (and have changed this a little since):

IMO I also question Kate's sanity, justme3, in stating this in a book for all the world to see!

When I read about Kate writing about "the awful pictures that scrolled through my head, of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart", it suggested to me that this was not just her thoughts of an unknown paedophile perpetrating such a thing on Maddie which Kate tries to implant by suggestion in the reader's mind.

Rather, I suspect that this is a real vision that Kate actually saw on April 28/29 and which haunts her on a daily basis possibly giving her nightmares ever since if she has any sense of guilt or conscience. I have never believed that Kate was the perpetrator or that it was an accident as I actually see Gerry more scheming than Kate is - hence no cadaver found on him. Perhaps she was a witness to a crime or she saw the body later. IMO, Kate has kept quiet about it all because she loves the money, the twins and the celebrity more than she ever loved Maddie.

By the way, what Kate could have meant is that her genitals were "perfectly normal" beforehand and then they were "torn apart".

IMO it is Kate's subconscious talking here - two meanings - superficial for the reader and the subconscious.

Estelle, I've also wondered if this could have been Kate's last image of her daughter and recently put this to Pat Brown. Far from dismissing it, she said it was a possibility worth considering and to keep in mind.


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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tigger on 20.03.12 6:18

Jean wrote:Murat fan and his blogs make the ramblings of Bonnybraes and her coven seem reasonably civilised!

I believe that he has young children himself. Does he feel no unease at the sight of photos of a little girl posed inappropriately and plastered in make-up?

What a truly pathetic individual he is to do nothing other than insult the people who believe with a lot of justification that there is something very wrong about this case.

If Muratfan is reading this topic he/she should know by now that I've apologized twice for this mistake - the first time in November. Shibboleth can also remember seeing it and I must have seen it somewhere between mid May and mid August when extracts of the book were everywhere.
If Muratfan calls himself/herself that because Murat is favourite for being the perpetrator? They might be half right. I'm sure Murat knows at least 90% of what happened and he helped hide the body.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by turnaround on 27.03.12 18:07

Hi. Having read a bit more about the case, and this thread, and especially in response to questions raised here, about why Mrs G didn't report what she witnessed to the authorities straight away, I can tell you from experience how difficult it is to go straight to the police when you have overheard or witnessed anything that makes you feel uncomfortable in regards to sexually unacceptable behaviour around or about children.
Some time ago, I would not allow someone i knew to have lone contact with my small daughter, not just because of allegations of sexual abuse by his own step daughter.but because of strange behaviour around ME. I didnt report anything to anyone, at the time.
I can also say, when women suspect odd behaviour, they can find it hard to tell authorities, for me in this case it was because of the risk of awkward feelings aroused from his family members. Having said that, i did report him to his wife and family after his behaviour became more unacceptable. Then he became banned from me and my kids full stop.
Maybe if Mrs G would have remained close, she would have said something sooner.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by rainbow-fairy on 27.03.12 18:57

@turnaround wrote:Hi. Having read a bit more about the case, and this thread, and especially in response to questions raised here, about why Mrs G didn't report what she witnessed to the authorities straight away, I can tell you from experience how difficult it is to go straight to the police when you have overheard or witnessed anything that makes you feel uncomfortable in regards to sexually unacceptable behaviour around or about children.
Some time ago, I would not allow someone i knew to have lone contact with my small daughter, not just because of allegations of sexual abuse by his own step daughter.but because of strange behaviour around ME. I didnt report anything to anyone, at the time.
I can also say, when women suspect odd behaviour, they can find it hard to tell authorities, for me in this case it was because of the risk of awkward feelings aroused from his family members. Having said that, i did report him to his wife and family after his behaviour became more unacceptable. Then he became banned from me and my kids full stop.
Maybe if Mrs G would have remained close, she would have said something sooner.
Big thumbs up!
I completely, totally and utterly agree with you.
Something that aroused low-level concerns at the time obviously took on a much more sinister hue when once Maddie vanished and KG knew Gerry and DP had been together in PdL.
Speaking personally I was attacked (I can't really bear to write the proper word) when I was 21. I had known him since primary school. I have never told the police, I only told my sister after three years. Even then its only because she found a poem I'd written about it.
Yes, its plausible to me.

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"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by nomendelta on 27.03.12 19:10

Of course it's plausible - this is a professional couple who would be well aware of the repercussions of taking this further. What could she do overall? Go to the police and Social Work and face the potential of two families split because of something she may have misinterpreted? It's not a step that offers a half-measure after all. It's all or nothing. The other course of action is speak to the men candidly but of course they'd just laugh it off, or talk to the wives who may be in on it and therefore deny it, may have no clue and blindly defend their men or believe Mrs G and have the seeds sown to split the relationship - again possibly based on a misinterpretation.

Only later when the unthinkable happened did Mrs G decide to approach the police. Why the statement was held back for 6 months from being given to the Portuguese and why nothing further seems to have been done to investigate the possibility of Messrs Payne and McCann having form for this kind of thing - and of course said Messrs complete and utter silence on the matter which is most odd given that they've commented (either directly or by proxy a la Philomena) on every other aspect of the case.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by turnaround on 27.03.12 19:23

And you don't really know what your dealing with at the end of the day. I was lucky enough to be liked by all his family and they wern't always compassionate and empathic people. Vengence, pay backs, etc it's not unheard of.
My other half didn't want to believe me and didn't like what I told him.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by nomendelta on 27.03.12 21:23

@turnaround wrote:And you don't really know what your dealing with at the end of the day. I was lucky enough to be liked by all his family and they wern't always compassionate and empathic people. Vengence, pay backs, etc it's not unheard of.
My other half didn't want to believe me and didn't like what I told him.

I was speaking with a social worker the other day who told me a case about a man - pillar of the cimmunity, church type etc, who had systematically abused all his children (girls sexually, boys not sure but at the very least physically) and then went on to do the same to his grandchildren. One grandchild broke ranks and told someone and eventually persuaded a couple of cousins to testify but the rest of the family closed ranks. He is in jail now but the mother of the girl that broke ranks was given an order to keep her youngest (3 years old) away from the grandfather but when the social worker visited he was alone with the 3 year old in the kitchen.

Obviously a deeply sick man but the actions of the girl's mother (who had been abused herself) in shunning her daughter is beyond my comprehension. The girl now lives far away from the family and the entire family have ostracised her and the others that broke ranks.

In these cases you really don't know what you are getting into and indeed how deep the rabbit hole goes so I can fully understand people wanting to just remove themselves rather than confront.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by russiandoll on 27.03.12 22:46

At the risk of being repetitive imo there was no confrontation needed when you simply state you wish to bathe your own child. It does not beg a question, you are stating that you want to do something you always do as a parent, if a question is asked, no answer is needed. You do not take your child to a bathroom to be bathed by an acquaintance and bathe the child yourself, as you do at home.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by nomendelta on 28.03.12 6:42

@russiandoll wrote: At the risk of being repetitive imo there was no confrontation needed when you simply state you wish to bathe your own child. It does not beg a question, you are stating that you want to do something you always do as a parent, if a question is asked, no answer is needed. You do not take your child to a bathroom to be bathed by an acquaintance and bathe the child yourself, as you do at home.

I don't think that's an issue - after the incident Mrs G asked her husband to make sure her child wasn't bathed by Messrs Payne or McCann. Isn't the issue why Mrs G didn't take this further at the time therefore putting the credibility of her statement on the line as some suggest she might have had an axe to grind with the men and made the whole thing up.

Truth is, paedos are very manipulative and intelligent, educated, professional ones even more so. If she overtly stated to them she didn't want them bathing her children you can guarantee that the men would not have let the subject drop. I think she did exactly what I'd be inclined to do in the circumstances but it's a fine line. So many lives have been ruined by false accusations yet so maybe have been ruined because peopel stayed silent.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Ribisl on 28.03.12 6:54

@nomendelta wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: At the risk of being repetitive imo there was no confrontation needed when you simply state you wish to bathe your own child. It does not beg a question, you are stating that you want to do something you always do as a parent, if a question is asked, no answer is needed. You do not take your child to a bathroom to be bathed by an acquaintance and bathe the child yourself, as you do at home.

I don't think that's an issue - after the incident Mrs G asked her husband to make sure her child wasn't bathed by Messrs Payne or McCann. Isn't the issue why Mrs G didn't take this further at the time therefore putting the credibility of her statement on the line as some suggest she might have had an axe to grind with the men and made the whole thing up.

Truth is, paedos are very manipulative and intelligent, educated, professional ones even more so. If she overtly stated to them she didn't want them bathing her children you can guarantee that the men would not have let the subject drop. I think she did exactly what I'd be inclined to do in the circumstances but it's a fine line. So many lives have been ruined by false accusations yet so maybe have been ruined because peopel stayed silent.

I agree. I think she did exactly as many of us would have done. At the time in Mallorca it was a mere doubt in her mind and her husband was less observant as men tend to be in these circumstances and therefore less convinced of any possible significance attached to DP's gestures. Only in hindsight she became more troubled by what she had seen previously and reported to the police at the risk of falling out with some of their friends. Well done, I'd say.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by russiandoll on 28.03.12 10:13

from nomendelta's post.

[please remember I am playing devils advocate here and I believe strongly that if this is the only pointer towards the horrendous p word it needs to be strong to stand up in court and a good barrister would easily rip this apart imo.]
There is no evidence or even a suggestion she made this up for vindictive reasons as far as I know



I don't think that's an issue - after the incident Mrs G asked her husband to make sure her child wasn't bathed by Messrs Payne or McCann. Isn't the issue why Mrs G didn't take this further at the time therefore putting the credibility of her statement on the line as some suggest she might have had an axe to grind with the men and made the whole thing up.

from KG statement:

During our holidays, I was more attentive at the bath times after hearing Dave saying that.

During our holidays in Majorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if it was Dave bathing the children. I remember telling Savio to took care to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, my daughter E. I was very clear about this, as having heard him say that had disturbed me, and I did not trust him to give bath to E. alone.

Not what you stated above nomendelta. KG took precautionary measures, good for her, but was content for supervison by her husband. DP was still doing bathtimes, not sure if alone or with others and which dads involved. She herself was happy to be close by.....not present in the bathroom. So content for the fathers to be the ones bathing the kids.......after what she witnessed from 2 of them. She does not state if all the dads took turns, if it was just DP or DP and GMc. After what she alleges she saw, her behaviour afterwards, especially as you say her husband gave it less credence...........would be torn to shreds. If she was anxious and thought her husband was underreacting, a barrister would ask again and again ad nauseam.....WHY , WHEN YOU WERE THE WITNESS TO WHAT WENT ON BETWEEN GMC AND DP....DID YOU STAY OUT OF THE BATHROOM AT BATH TIMES.

This all women stay away its the mens territory...is very strange imo. She seems to have felt totally intimidated imo.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.12 10:44

@russiandoll wrote: At the risk of being repetitive imo there was no confrontation needed when you simply state you wish to bathe your own child. It does not beg a question, you are stating that you want to do something you always do as a parent, if a question is asked, no answer is needed. You do not take your child to a bathroom to be bathed by an acquaintance and bathe the child yourself, as you do at home.
I guess I will sound repetitive now, but I have to disagree on this one, russiandoll.
KG, as I've already stated, may very well be an unassertive lady, who feared unpleasantness. I've been quite afraid to assert myself, I'm getting better but still nowhere near where I'd like to be. Maybe she imagined a scene, along the lines of:
KG: I would like to bathe my own children please.
DP: Why? If its good enough for the others, why not you? What do you think will happen?

She'd be completely on the spot then. What would she say? I fear you are a nonce? It might sound easy to say she should just reply 'Because I always do it and I want to continue'. If DP (and GMcC) are the kind of personalities I believe they are, I don't think they would've left it at that.
Imo, she would have been badgered and made to feel stupid and a 'hysterical woman'. I know - I've been there! (Not in a paedo situation, just to be clear!)
I understand your point, but if KG was anything other than a strong personality I believe she would've been more likely to stick to the status quo.

ETA: Her statement backs this up, I think. When she says about the gestures, then how she 'looked around to see if anyone else had noticed' - a strong personality would've butted in then - probably with a 'What do you mean? That is sick!' type comment.
She sounds more like a follower, a herd member, than a leader.

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tigger on 28.03.12 11:25

There's such a thing as 'small group dynamics'. It was researched extensively and I'm sure there'll be material on this on the net.

In a small group, especially if you don't know the others very well, even intelligent people will defer to what seems to be the custom or opinion of most of the group. I think that might be of interest here.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by nomendelta on 28.03.12 11:56

@russiandoll wrote: from nomendelta's post.

[please remember I am playing devils advocate here and I believe strongly that if this is the only pointer towards the horrendous p word it needs to be strong to stand up in court and a good barrister would easily rip this apart imo.]
There is no evidence or even a suggestion she made this up for vindictive reasons as far as I know



I don't think that's an issue - after the incident Mrs G asked her husband to make sure her child wasn't bathed by Messrs Payne or McCann. Isn't the issue why Mrs G didn't take this further at the time therefore putting the credibility of her statement on the line as some suggest she might have had an axe to grind with the men and made the whole thing up.

from KG statement:

During our holidays, I was more attentive at the bath times after hearing Dave saying that.

During our holidays in Majorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if it was Dave bathing the children. I remember telling Savio to took care to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, my daughter E. I was very clear about this, as having heard him say that had disturbed me, and I did not trust him to give bath to E. alone.

Not what you stated above nomendelta. KG took precautionary measures, good for her, but was content for supervison by her husband. DP was still doing bathtimes, not sure if alone or with others and which dads involved. She herself was happy to be close by.....not present in the bathroom. So content for the fathers to be the ones bathing the kids.......after what she witnessed from 2 of them. She does not state if all the dads took turns, if it was just DP or DP and GMc. After what she alleges she saw, her behaviour afterwards, especially as you say her husband gave it less credence...........would be torn to shreds. If she was anxious and thought her husband was underreacting, a barrister would ask again and again ad nauseam.....WHY , WHEN YOU WERE THE WITNESS TO WHAT WENT ON BETWEEN GMC AND DP....DID YOU STAY OUT OF THE BATHROOM AT BATH TIMES.

This all women stay away its the mens territory...is very strange imo. She seems to have felt totally intimidated imo.

Well she clearly wasn't sure of the MEANING of what she saw - just that what she observed did make her wonder if Payne was inclined towards looking at children. Not enough to have an argument and I've known many people in life who can be quite pushy and when you try the polite-but-firm thing they push the issue to it's fullest - especially when it's someone who is lying or trying to hide something. Asking her husband to ensure he was observed and didn't get to bathe them alone would have probably been the most she could have done comfortably at the time.

Bear in mind she's on a holiday arranged by this guy - a fall-out ensues on what might have been nothing and who knows what might have happened. Most people will do the polite thing then withdraw from that company. It's a very tough call - without mixing more with them (something she'd be understandably reluctant to do) she can't have more to go on.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 28.03.12 12:40

You sound as if you're describing me Rainbow-Fairy, I think that's exactly how I would have behaved if I found myself in the situation that Mrs Gaspar did. A more assertive person might have gone in with fists flying (metaphorically) but we aren't all like that.

Many years ago I was on holiday with a family. I can't go into too many details and I stress that nothing illegal was involved. However the behaviour of the children and the adults was completely unacceptable to me - the sort of thing that would have Supernanny gasping in disbelief.

I did try to express my concern at what was going on but I was laughed at and told I was the one with a problem. I still regret now that I didn't pack my bags and leave, rather than stick it out and endure the holiday from hell.

I'm still learning even now how not to let people ride roughshod over me!

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by russiandoll on 28.03.12 13:16

well I dont wish to labour the point and you might recall that one of my 1st posts on this forum was a question...were the McCann children unsupervised at bath times on their OC holiday...this due to having read for the 1st time in her book that Kate when referring to the why didnt you come when we were crying last night from Maddie..... wondered when this could have been, getting ready for bed OR WAS IT WHEN THEY WERE HAVING THEIR BATH ?
Now I found this very odd...in a bedroom alone and grizzling a bit, fine; but why would a toddler and/or her siblings be crying in a bath for a parent to come to her? I believe this is a clue that she was bathed by someone other than her parents on that holiday. And no prizes for guessing who.

I give great credence to KG btw, I think there is something very strange about the men doing the baths , nothing wrong per se.it is the fact that women seem to have been excluded that is raising a huge red flag here. They are like Stepford wives, are they all submissive to their menfolk? More than one example of Kate submitting to her husband.

I just think and my final word here as it is going around in circles.KG stating she BELIEVED the ref was to Maddie without saying why, and not putting her child first given her misgivings, however intimidated she felt, would be weak in a court, where it matters.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 28.07.12 20:07

Just seen this tweet........

win ‏@imogmi1

Unterdenteppichgekehrt: The Gaspar Scare http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-gaspar-scare.html?spref=tw

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 28.07.12 21:44

Everything I've seen tells me that the McCanns and their friends are lying and have been from the start. The question is why - and, more importantly, what could it possibly be that keeps a group of people tied in together in a shared lie? The answer to this question could also be the answer to that other question: 'why would someone cover up an accidental death?' Possibly because the body of Madeleine McCann threatened to reveal a truth that would indict them all in something far worse than the shockingly heartless neglect that their version of events admits .

The hardest thing to conceive of in a hypothesis like this is that a group of people might permit and / or indulge in the sexual abuse of their children. But just because you and I couldn't do it doesn't mean it doesn't happen - and we know it does. Which means that no matter how incredible it might seem to us, it could therefore have happened in the case of Madeleine McCann.

I believe that people draw on real experience when their freedom depends on being able to maintain a lie. I believe that Kate does this all the time and I'm with the poster here who suggested that Kate's description of her daughter's 'perfect little genitals' being ripped apart sounds more like a memory than the imagination of a fearful mother.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by Guest on 28.07.12 22:06

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Everything I've seen tells me that the McCanns and their friends are lying and have been from the start. The question is why - and, more importantly, what could it possibly be that keeps a group of people tied in together in a shared lie? The answer to this question could also be the answer to that other question: 'why would someone cover up an accidental death?' Possibly because the body of Madeleine McCann threatened to reveal a truth that would indict them all in something far worse than the shockingly heartless neglect that their version of events admits .

The hardest thing to conceive of in a hypothesis like this is that a group of people might permit and / or indulge in the sexual abuse of their children. But just because you and I couldn't do it doesn't mean it doesn't happen - and we know it does. Which means that no matter how incredible it might seem to us, it could therefore have happened in the case of Madeleine McCann.

I believe that people draw on real experience when their freedom depends on being able to maintain a lie. I believe that Kate does this all the time and I'm with the poster here who suggested that Kate's description of her daughter's 'perfect little genitals' being ripped apart sounds more like a memory than the imagination of a fearful mother.

That is inconceivable.
If so, why publish and expose yourself?

We are staring into an abyss here.

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Re: The controversial Gaspar Statement

Post by tuom on 28.07.12 22:47

@Portia wrote:
@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Everything I've seen tells me that the McCanns and their friends are lying and have been from the start. The question is why - and, more importantly, what could it possibly be that keeps a group of people tied in together in a shared lie? The answer to this question could also be the answer to that other question: 'why would someone cover up an accidental death?' Possibly because the body of Madeleine McCann threatened to reveal a truth that would indict them all in something far worse than the shockingly heartless neglect that their version of events admits .

The hardest thing to conceive of in a hypothesis like this is that a group of people might permit and / or indulge in the sexual abuse of their children. But just because you and I couldn't do it doesn't mean it doesn't happen - and we know it does. Which means that no matter how incredible it might seem to us, it could therefore have happened in the case of Madeleine McCann.

I believe that people draw on real experience when their freedom depends on being able to maintain a lie. I believe that Kate does this all the time and I'm with the poster here who suggested that Kate's description of her daughter's 'perfect little genitals' being ripped apart sounds more like a memory than the imagination of a fearful mother.

That is inconceivable.
If so, why publish and expose yourself?

We are staring into an abyss here.



There is no way I can go along with what is mentioned above, I have always been convinced that the "mystery" of MMC was the result of an accident that was covered up, why ? I cannot say , I wish I could. We must remember that an innocent child is not where she should be tonight as a result of something that happened in Portugal in 2007.

Of course we have all thought of the really bad aspect of this case and it takes a brave person to post their thoughts or "gut feeling" on this case and for that I would say that person is brave and is being honest to oneself.

I would hate to see this forum going to the depths of others , but I will as long as I can hope that this case can be solved and those responsible for the "way MMC is today" brought to justice .

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