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McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:28 am

I take it there's no link then Autnmnut to prove your statement?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:57 am

@bunny wrote:
@Autumn wrote:
@Kololi wrote:Hi
Totally agree there is no evidence to support that Mr and Mrs McCann killed their little girl, well no more than there is to suggest that she was abducted anyway......

Wink Wink

In my opinion, the accidental death theory is the most likely - probably as a result of over sedation.

There is evidence to support this:

According to Fiona Payne, Kate kept checking the twins' breathing - why would she do this'

Gerry commenting months late that he thought the 'abductor' had sedated the children - if he had concerns at the time, why didn't her get the twins checked at the hospital as soon as possible?

Dave Edgar, the man in charge of the McCanns own investigation, gave interviews to the press stating that he was convinced that all 3 children had been drugged.

All of your points actually back up the possibility of an abductor having used drugs on the children thumbsup

Given the miniscule window of opportunity, it would be highly unlikely that the children were drugged by the 'abductor' as there would have been insufficient time. Could you be more specific as to how this would have been possible?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:59 am

"insufficient time"
Can you tell me how long does it take to drug them?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:00 pm

Inyx wrote:Can you tell me how long does it take to drug them?


Inyx....in order to orally drug them they'd have to be woken up to take the drug to keep them to sleep.

If they were injected it would show.

If they were given an inhaled drug then it would take only seconds.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:04 pm

If there was no abduction then what happened to Madeleine?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:33 pm

@vaguely1 wrote:
Inyx wrote:Can you tell me how long does it take to drug them?


Inyx....in order to orally drug them they'd have to be woken up to take the drug to keep them to sleep.

If they were injected it would show.

If they were given an inhaled drug then it would take only seconds.

I was asking Autumn as she seems to be the expert. But thanks anyway for answering Laughing

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:39 pm

I know. I just got carried away.....

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:47 pm

Well perhaps she could explain then what's happened to Madeleine, when, who did it, why, how etc? I'm sure everybody wants to know.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:09 pm

Jmbd

I believe that the children had all been over-sedated. Madeleine may have got up and wandered - feeling groggy from drugs, she may have fallen behind the sofa and suffered a fatal injury. Alternatively, she may have lapsed into a coma due to over-sedation. Both these scenarios would explain the fine blood spray - this may have been the result of a broken neck or tracheotomy. My personal belief is that she broke her neck, falling behind the sofa.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:20 pm

Why would a trach help? Maybe you should consider choking discovered while child was still alive if you believe a tracheotomy was given. And does giving a tracheotomy actually cause fine blood spray?

The pattern of markers on the wall behind the sofa don't indicate fine blood spray.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:25 pm

@Autumn wrote:Jmbd

I believe that the children had all been over-sedated. Madeleine may have got up and wandered - feeling groggy from drugs, she may have fallen behind the sofa and suffered a fatal injury. Alternatively, she may have lapsed into a coma due to over-sedation. Both these scenarios would explain the fine blood spray - this may have been the result of a broken neck or tracheotomy. My personal belief is that she broke her neck, falling behind the sofa.

Thankyou for giving your opinion.

Could you explain the fine blood spray please - the forensic evidence I mean?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:15 pm

Inyx wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:
Inyx wrote:Can you tell me how long does it take to drug them?


Inyx....in order to orally drug them they'd have to be woken up to take the drug to keep them to sleep.

If they were injected it would show.

If they were given an inhaled drug then it would take only seconds.

I was asking Autumn as she seems to be the expert. But thanks anyway for answering Laughing


Dave Edgar has stated publicly that he believes that all of the children were sedated with chloroform, as it is a fast-acting sedative. Have to say, this is highly unlikey as the doctors would have definately noticed and recognized the distintive sweet smell of chloroform in the apartment. As Vaguely has pointed out, the other options would take quite a while to take effect and there would have been evidence of use.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:21 pm

Not sedated then?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:29 pm

@jmbd wrote:Not sedated then?

I believe that Dave Edgar is correct in his conviction that all 3 children had been sedated. By whom, remains to seen.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:30 pm

@Autumn wrote:
Inyx wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:
Inyx wrote:Can you tell me how long does it take to drug them?


Inyx....in order to orally drug them they'd have to be woken up to take the drug to keep them to sleep.

If they were injected it would show.

If they were given an inhaled drug then it would take only seconds.

I was asking Autumn as she seems to be the expert. But thanks anyway for answering Laughing


Dave Edgar has stated publicly that he believes that all of the children were sedated with chloroform, as it is a fast-acting sedative. Have to say, this is highly unlikey as the doctors would have definately noticed and recognized the distintive sweet smell of chloroform in the apartment. As Vaguely has pointed out, the other options would take quite a while to take effect and there would have been evidence of use.


I'm not sure why they would recognise the smell because they're doctors, it's not been used as an anaesthetic for 50+ years, and unless they're based in a lab extracting penicillin they probably wouldn't have come in to contact with it. Unless they both moonlight in an industrial plant.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:36 pm

There's also the open window. How long would a smell linger?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:39 pm

I don't think they were sedated.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:47 pm

Chloroform has a very strong smell and would have been noticable, even with the window open.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:49 pm

Autumn, you seem to know a lot about chloroform....you don't go around secretly drugging people in your spare time do you?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:50 pm

@Autumn wrote:Chloroform has a very strong smell and would have been noticable, even with the window open.

so if it wasn't chloroform what was it?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:52 pm

why would there have to be any sedative when Madeleine met her death in a different room?

(autumns theory)

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:57 pm

@jmbd wrote:why would there have to be any sedative when Madeleine met her death in a different room?

(autumns theory)

Didn't Autumn's theory include over sedation leading to an accident.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:02 pm

No - falling off the back of a sofa - etc etc.

I may be wrong - can never find things when i want to look back at them.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by jmbd on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:14 pm

Oh yes your right vag. Just to remind us - autumns theory was:

"I believe that the children had all been over-sedated. Madeleine may have got up and wandered - feeling groggy from drugs, she may have fallen behind the sofa and suffered a fatal injury. Alternatively, she may have lapsed into a coma due to over-sedation. Both these scenarios would explain the fine blood spray - this may have been the result of a broken neck or tracheotomy. My personal belief is that she broke her neck, falling behind the sofa."

But then autumns thesis says:

"Dave Edgar has stated publicly that he believes that all of the children were sedated with chloroform, as it is a fast-acting sedative. Have to say, this is highly unlikey as the doctors would have definately noticed and recognized the distintive sweet smell of chloroform in the apartment. As Vaguely has pointed out, the other options would take quite a while to take effect and there would have been evidence of use."

So what fiendish substance was used?

A little bit of doubt though as to who it was:

"I believe that Dave Edgar is correct in his conviction that all 3 children had been sedated. By whom, remains to seen."

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:28 pm

Ah yes, what substance? Calpol according to Amaral.

If all of the children were over-sedated, why did only one of them get up while the others stayed asleep?
Would a person who's over-sedated get up and walk around?

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