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McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by marigold on 15.02.10 1:37

@Snowy wrote:Mark Harrison did not actually point the finger at anyone.
He was called in with the express request to evaulate the seach strategy already carried out and to draw up a new one based on the idea that the child could be dead, rather than alive. Previous searches had been based on the idea she had either wandered or been kidnapped and was being held locally.
At no point does he ever go on record as saying 'look she'd dead, stop looking for a live child'. That particular gloss has been written in hindisght, by people who chose not to read what he actually said in his statement. He was given a brief by a very senior figure in the PJ, and he followed it. He was assisted by other UK and PT officers and by a PT University. They focused on likely areas for burial or disposal of a body.

The cold plain facts are, in a missing child case with no evidence whatsoever of an abduction it's extremely likely that the parents ( or family or friends) are involved. This is a statistical fact. Whichever way you lot want to wriggle out of this truth unless abduction is proved then it's highly likely that the parents are involved, whether you like it or not.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on 15.02.10 1:38

what does 'you lot' mean?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by marigold on 15.02.10 1:42

@vaguely1 wrote:what does 'you lot' mean?

Pro's. Those delightful posters who rush in to defend the indefensible. Who act as if these dear neglectful parents are their own family and attack with relish any who oppose them. This forum is riddled with them.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on 15.02.10 1:54

Marigold - why not try and be a little less...aggressive. This is Jill's forum and I think we probably all owe it to her to keep the peace, on today of all days.

There really is no need for the angry language you use so often.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 2:33

This is what I don't get either, Marigold. I can hardly be bothered wasting time responding to many of the 'pro' comments, they seem incapable of accepting that their idols could be guilty of anything. I am now seriouly wondering if we have all been part of some wierd brainwashing experiment and that those who believe the McCanns have been sub-conciously indoctrinated with the Mccann 'abduction' mantra. To some, the McCanns have become a sort of religion, they have to be worshipped, their word must be believed because they say so - those who dare question the McCs are branded by their worshippers as evil.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on 15.02.10 11:04

@marigold wrote:The cold plain facts are, in a missing child case with no evidence whatsoever of an abduction it's extremely likely that the parents ( or family or friends) are involved. This is a statistical fact. Whichever way you lot want to wriggle out of this truth unless abduction is proved then it's highly likely that the parents are involved, whether you like it or not.

The cold facts are there's no evidence either way.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by bellatrix on 15.02.10 11:26

@Autumn wrote:This is what I don't get either, Marigold. I can hardly be bothered wasting time responding to many of the 'pro' comments, they seem incapable of accepting that their idols could be guilty of anything. I am now seriouly wondering if we have all been part of some wierd brainwashing experiment and that those who believe the McCanns have been sub-conciously indoctrinated with the Mccann 'abduction' mantra. To some, the McCanns have become a sort of religion, they have to be worshipped, their word must be believed because they say so - those who dare question the McCs are branded by their worshippers as evil.

I'm sorry but what a load of rubbish! There's that word again "idols",its so childish to infer that those who are not neccessarily convinced by the "evidence" worship and idolise the McCanns as opposed to those who worship at the altar of Bennett and Amaral eh?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 14:01

All I know is that had I neglected my children as the McCs did on their holiday, my family would not have been rushing to defend me and I think that would go for most people's families. So why on earth would people who do not know the McCs at all, wish to fiecely defend them and, at the same time, attack in an often quite aggressive manner, those who are simply questioning their story?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on 15.02.10 14:16

@Autumn wrote:All I know is that had I neglected my children as the McCs did on their holiday, my family would not have been rushing to defend me and I think that would go for most people's families. So why on earth would people who do not know the McCs at all, wish to fiecely defend them and, at the same time, attack in an often quite aggressive manner, those who are simply questioning their story?

I'm sure that there are some that do, either because they accept that they are the parents of a missing child, or they believe that that Madeleine is the most important aspect and nobody can turn the clock back by punishing them further - but I'm also sure that there are some that just accept that fact that justice will deal with them if they're guilty and that changing Madeleine's surname to McScum or exaggerating what went on won't bring justice any quicker.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by marigold on 15.02.10 15:09

@Autumn wrote:This is what I don't get either, Marigold. I can hardly be bothered wasting time responding to many of the 'pro' comments, they seem incapable of accepting that their idols could be guilty of anything. I am now seriouly wondering if we have all been part of some wierd brainwashing experiment and that those who believe the McCanns have been sub-conciously indoctrinated with the Mccann 'abduction' mantra. To some, the McCanns have become a sort of religion, they have to be worshipped, their word must be believed because they say so - those who dare question the McCs are branded by their worshippers as evil.

This is exactly what I think too Autumn. I have wondered whether this is an experiment, so much of it seems to be surreal. My daughter can't hear a word said against them and she is usually very rational. We don't talk about it any more as we end up arguing and we are usually so close. It does seem like mind control on a huge scale.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by marigold on 15.02.10 15:25

@vaguely1 wrote:Marigold - why not try and be a little less...aggressive. This is Jill's forum and I think we probably all owe it to her to keep the peace, on today of all days.

There really is no need for the angry language you use so often.

I am not the only one on the forum with strong views, so maybe respond in the same vein to others? I am not aggressive anyway just passionate about justice and truth.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 16:11

Marigold, to me it is remininicent of the 'Emporer's New Clothes' - a little lie becomes a big lie and, even though the truth is blindingly obvious, the masses believe the lies. This probably stems from the UK media staunchly taking the McCanns side because they are doctors and, therefore, must be telling the truth - those who dare suggest otherwise are 'demonised'. Anyone with a grain of intelligence can see there are many inconsistencies in the T9 statements that have never been challenged by the authorities. I doubt the McCanns have much public support but that is mainly because they do not come over as very likeable poeple. Many feel there is something not right about the whole thing which is why it is important to get the facts contained in the PJ Files out to the general public - the facts that have been suppressed by our disgracefully inept UK press.
I think I am right in saying that the Justice4madeleine site is run by friends and family of the McCanns - the few times I have glanced at it, I have never failed to be sickened by the disturbing 'cult' worship of the McCanns and the unbridled hatred their members have for those who doubt them.
Perhaps the difference between the 'antis' and 'pros' is quite simply we who stand firmly in the 'anti' camp are not the kind of people to blindly believe those in authority - we will continue to dig for the truth, however long it takes.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on 15.02.10 16:48

Autumn, actually I don't think there's a whole heap of difference between those with a uber anti view and those with an uber pro view. They are people who've made their minds up and aren't interested in taking on board anything anyone else says.

I've met some very nice people who have completely differing views on the case. It's not as if a persons views on the McCanns are the be all and end all of a person's personality and character.

I'm just at a loss to understand why a member of the public who has never met Madeleine or her parents before would feel a need to make her parents out to be anything better, or anything worse than they are.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Snowy on 15.02.10 17:35

Actually Autumn I think you will find that the police are 'authority'.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by whoknowsthetruth on 15.02.10 20:00

@Autumn wrote:This is what I don't get either, Marigold. I can hardly be bothered wasting time responding to many of the 'pro' comments, they seem incapable of accepting that their idols could be guilty of anything. I am now seriouly wondering if we have all been part of some wierd brainwashing experiment and that those who believe the McCanns have been sub-conciously indoctrinated with the Mccann 'abduction' mantra. To some, the McCanns have become a sort of religion, they have to be worshipped, their word must be believed because they say so - those who dare question the McCs are branded by their worshippers as evil.

What i do not understand is how a couple from Middle England can suddenly overnight become media manipulators, into Government Bribery, become Oscar winning actors all in the space of a few hours.
We have had people saying that Governments all over the world are involved, come on someone would spill the beans. There are no d notices in force are they, concerning this case.
Now turn Autunm quote on it's head, Are the Anti's been brainwashed into believing that the Mccanns killed Madeleine. is there any evidence?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Kololi on 15.02.10 20:34

Hi
Totally agree there is no evidence to support that Mr and Mrs McCann killed their little girl, well no more than there is to suggest that she was abducted anyway......

Wink Wink

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 21:01

@Kololi wrote:Hi
Totally agree there is no evidence to support that Mr and Mrs McCann killed their little girl, well no more than there is to suggest that she was abducted anyway......

Wink Wink

In my opinion, the accidental death theory is the most likely - probably as a result of over sedation.

There is evidence to support this:

According to Fiona Payne, Kate kept checking the twins' breathing - why would she do this'

Gerry commenting months late that he thought the 'abductor' had sedated the children - if he had concerns at the time, why didn't her get the twins checked at the hospital as soon as possible?

Dave Edgar, the man in charge of the McCanns own investigation, gave interviews to the press stating that he was convinced that all 3 children had been drugged.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by vaguely1 on 15.02.10 21:28

I've only just stopped checking mine are still breathing at night - I've been doing it for 11 years, so probably I'm not the best person to answer that.

Calpol was Amarals suggestion re the sedation....but it doesn't sedate, and you certainly can't over sedate with it.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on 15.02.10 21:33

Over sedation? By what?
Checking the twins breathing is no evidence for that theory.
They had concerns about the twins at the time.

"In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.
....
Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine’s abduction.

This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my knowledge."

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 21:51

MADELEINE EXCLUSIVE: ALL THREE CHILDREN DRUGGED



MISSING: Madeleine McCann
Sunday October 11,2009
By James Murray The kidnapper of Madeleine McCann drugged her and her twin brother and sister so they would all be quiet while she was snatched.

A duplicate key may also have been used to gain entrance to the holiday apartment where the children were sleeping, say investigators.

It means the monster is still a threat to children living or holidaying on Portugal’s Algarve and must be caught urgently as he is highly likely to reoffend.

Former police detectives David Edgar and Arthur Cowley have spent months re-analysing every shred of evidence.

They are convinced the ­abductor went to the family’s apartment on May 3 2007 fully prepared with sufficient drugs, probably ­chloroform, to knock out all three children.

The fact that Sean and Amelie, then just 18 months old, failed to wake when the alarm was raised, nor even as they were taken to another apartment in the cold night air, has persuaded the detectives that they, too, must have been drugged.

Had the twins been tested for drugs immediately, any ­medication used could have been established, making it easier to identify the kidnapper, but vital time was lost.

Chloroform can be made ­easily and other sedatives, such as the horse tranquilliser ketamine, are commonly in circulation in the criminal underworld.

Even now, however, experts say there may be forensic clues on clothing or bedding which could yield a breakthrough.

The Sunday Express can further reveal that the McCanns’ private detectives are working on a solid theory about exactly how Madeleine was abducted.



SEARCH UK NEWS for:

Just as television investigator Donal MacIntyre suggested in this paper three weeks ago, they believe there was a dry run prior to the kidnap that fateful night at apartment 5a of the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz.

While checking the layout of the apartment the night before, the kidnapper probably woke Sean, who in turn woke Madeleine. In the morning she had told Kate and Gerry she was frightened.

The fact that the children woke up is thought to have persuaded the kidnapper to use knock-out drugs when he returned the next night to take Madeleine, three.

On the question of the duplicate key, holidaymakers often left front door keys under the doormats during the day.
A theory emerging is that the kidnapper had a duplicate key to apartment 5a, which could have been used on the night to enter by the front door.

Mr Edgar and Mr Cowley do not believe Madeleine was taken through an open window as it would have been awkward, time consuming and there were no forensic clues left behind.

It is far more likely, they say, that he simply walked out of the front door with her in his arms. It had been thought that the front door was double locked, making it impossible to open from the inside, but this doubt falls away if there was a duplicate key.

The theory suggests the ­kidnapper had been targeting the apartment for a long time and had a detailed knowledge of the lock system.

With the front door unlocked, it is easy to simply pull a latch across to open it from the inside.

Another possibility is that the front door was not double-locked when Kate and Gerry left through the unlocked patio doors to join their seven friends at the resort’s tapas bar some 30 metres from their apartment.

Meanwhile it emerged yesterday that the parents of a two-year-old girl who has gone missing in New Zealand are being ­supported by the ­McCanns.

Aisling Symes vanished from a relative’s house in an Auckland suburb on Monday.

Her mother Angela had been close by, standing beside a washing machine.

There have been reports that the girl was later seen with a woman of Asian appearance.

Detectives believe she was ­abducted. Despite repeated ­appeals for help their searches have so far drawn a blank.
Kate and Gerry McCann said their “thoughts and prayers” were with the family.

The little girl’s father, Allan Symes, who is originally from County Waterford in Ireland, made an emotional plea for her return, saying: “These recent days have proven to be the most harrowing of our lives; no sleep and we feel like we’re barely ­existing, just surviving every ­moment, not knowing where ­Aisling is.”

It has also emerged that police in Sweden are trying to find a girl said to bear a resemblance to Madeleine after a photograph was posted on a website.

However, she does not appear to have the distinctive mark Madeleine has in her right eye.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/133307/MADELEINE-EXCLUSIVE%3A-All-three-children-drugged/

Clearly, Dave Edgar had concerns in October 2009, so much so that he gave interviews to the press, stating his conviction that all 3 children had been drugged, probably with chloroform.

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Cath on 15.02.10 21:54

What's your point Autumn?

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 22:01

@Autumn wrote:
@Kololi wrote:Hi
Totally agree there is no evidence to support that Mr and Mrs McCann killed their little girl, well no more than there is to suggest that she was abducted anyway......

Wink Wink

In my opinion, the accidental death theory is the most likely - probably as a result of over sedation.

There is evidence to support this:

According to Fiona Payne, Kate kept checking the twins' breathing - why would she do this'

Gerry commenting months late that he thought the 'abductor' had sedated the children - if he had concerns at the time, why didn't her get the twins checked at the hospital as soon as possible?

Dave Edgar, the man in charge of the McCanns own investigation, gave interviews to the press stating that he was convinced that all 3 children had been drugged.

All of your points actually back up the possibility of an abductor having used drugs on the children thumbsup

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 22:07

As there was no abductor, by process of elimination I am sure you can work it out for yourselves. thumbsup

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 22:16

@Autumn wrote:As there was no abductor, by process of elimination I am sure you can work it out for yourselves. thumbsup

and please tell me you have a link to prove that.....as without such proof then your process of elimination is flawed to say the least. Oh and please tell me when the McCanns will be arrested and tried thumbsup

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Re: McCanns Running Scared - Vid Outside Lisbon Court 10th Feb

Post by Autumn on 16.02.10 11:24

You would be better off asking our resident pychic, Mystic Jack - he has kindly posted up the outcome of Thursday's hearing and, no doubt, will continue to astound us all with his amazing powers. wow

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