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Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by aiyoyo on 07.03.12 13:41

Thanks Me for posting that, which leaves me more questions than ever about Pat Brown's last theory relating to Nocha Negra.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 07.03.12 13:42

@PeterMac wrote:Thank you. I appreciate that, but my question remains,
Why, and by whom ?
We know that the police searched through the night, resumed the following day with helicopters, dogs and so on, and that large numbers of people from the village and holiday makers joined the McCanns in their search , sorry, joined in the search.
Who is Merrymo, and why is s/he/it posting that, causing us to go back into the files to dig out the evidence.
Are we being diverted ?

Yes, we are being diverted PeterMac, some people don't like the topic of the missing sports bag brought up, I wonder why?

Any further posts off topic will be deleted, please feel free to start a new thread to talk about other topics.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Me on 07.03.12 13:53

Although Merrymo discussed the issue of the PJ ignoring the sighting, this poster chose not to reply to my asnwer regarding the credibility of it.

From the same files relating to police statements:

Processos Volume XII

Pages 3885

Witness Statement

Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa

Date: 17-10-2007

He comes to the process as a witness, as an officer from the Lagos GNR, he has worked for the Guarda for 13 years.

He confirms the integrity of his previous statements.

Regarding the facts on 3rd May, when he was on patrol with his colleague Roque in the Odiaxere zone, they received a radio communication from the central, telling them to go to P da L, specifically to the OC resort reception where the father of a little girl who had gone missing was. When they were on their way to this place and in the Valverde area, they received a new communication, informing them that this was a very young child and that her father had called again. They continued on their way, now with urgency, heading for the main reception of the resort.

When they arrived they saw the girl’s father, a friend whom the witness describes as tall and blond, an OC employee and a translator who was also an OC employee, named Silvia Baptista.

After hearing about the circumstances of the disappearance (from the father with the help of translation) he does not remember whether the word abduction was mentioned, and he went in his police car, to the apartment, accompanied by the father, the friend and the translator. When he arrived at the apartment he saw that the wooden door, now referred to as the main door, was closed and he thinks someone who he cannot identify opened it. When he entered, there were other individual apart from the mother, he does not know how many but there was at least another couple present.

Then, with his colleague, he searched the apartment. He opened all the cupboards of the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and he checked under the beds and in the fridge. He did not see the washing machine. He did not see anything strange during the search and there was no sign of a break in. As regards the bed clothes of the child’s bed, he found it to have a normal disposition.

He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which the witness did not understand.

After the search of the interior, his colleague went to check the area around the apartments and the Tapas Bar, while the witness remained next the apartment, just outside it. At that moment a female individual, he does not know whether she was a member of the group of friends, who was in the neighbouring apartment, said that she saw an individual carrying a child, running, and that because of the pyjamas she was wearing it could have been Madeleine. It was in these circumstances that abduction began to be talked about. He made a report about this situation and sent it to the police.

This sighting did not seem to him to be very credible, because when he asked her about the physical characteristics of the individual, she said it was very dark, however she saw the pyjamas clearly.

When asked, he said that at that time he also saw a lot of local people, who were searching for the missing girl.

Whilst he was outside he talked to the witness mentioned previously and to some residents who had not seen anything. He exchanged some words with the mother, who was crying and only asked for more police officers.

When questioned about the bedroom windows, he only remembers that blinds of the window of the girl’s bedroom were not totally closed. He does not remember about the existence of curtains or whether the window itself was closed.

He says that in the apartment there were two beds and two cots placed in Madeleine’s room, he does not remember their position. The children never woke up, he is sure, not knowing what position they were in, however he found this situation to be very strange, as a lot of noise was made.

As regards the parents, he says they were nervous and anxious, emotional. He adds that upon observing the scene it did not appear to him to be an abduction, but rather a normal disappearance where the child had left by her own means.

As regards the living room sofa, next to a curtain, he cannot be sure whether the sofa was against the wall.

He also refers to a situation at about 02 or 03.00, that the parents asked for a priest and his colleague had tried to contact one on his mobile, but did not manage to find one.

He also emphasises the situation that someone, who he cannot identify, having contacted Sky News and the Embassy that night. He does not know if were the parents.

He also notes that he saw various photographs on normal A4 paper of the girl, which had been printed at the reception, as well as other photos on photographic paper, poster type 10x15, that could not have been printed at the reception. This seemed unusual to him and he later confirmed that it was not possible for them to have been printed at the reception.

He has nothing else to add.

Reads, ratifies, signs.

But wait a minute wasn't it supposed to be that lone, rogue cop, Amaral, all on his own who came up with these "false" allegations?

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 07.03.12 14:47

@Me wrote:
But wait a minute wasn't it supposed to be that lone, rogue cop, Amaral, all on his own who came up with these "false" allegations?
It's a conspiracy, didn't you know !

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Me on 07.03.12 14:52

@PeterMac wrote:
@Me wrote:
But wait a minute wasn't it supposed to be that lone, rogue cop, Amaral, all on his own who came up with these "false" allegations?
It's a conspiracy, didn't you know !

Argh, right! So all those Team believers who mock and disparage those who believe there was a UK government led cover up to protect the Team as "conspiracy theory loonies" actually believe the whole of the PJ were in on some large scale conspiracy to fit up the parents.

Sorry, so who are actually the real conspiracy theory loonies then?

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 07.03.12 14:54

Oh well, being as we are going off topic, Paulo Rebelo, who took over from Mr Amaral came to the same conclusions it would seem..............

The couple's hopes of being cleared today were crushed when police chief Paulo Rebelo asked a judge to extend their arguido status because detectives are sticking to their belief that they accidentally killed the four-year-old.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-fury-at-police-chiefs-warning-283781

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 07.03.12 15:31

Let us try to get it clear. So that we all understand.
Anyone, absolutely anyone, anywhere, who does not accept as revealed truth that Madeleine was abducted by an unspecified person, in an unspecified manner at an unspecified time, for an unspecified purpose and is being held in an unspecified place for an unspecified reason ... (the details to be revealed by the parents at an unspecified time and date in the future - or not as the case may be -)
is prima facie a member of a conspiracy.
Res ipsa loquitur

Clear now?


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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by listener on 07.03.12 16:28

Re. the CCTV on this thread.

Don't know about 2007, but I have stayed reasonably frequently in the heart of Luz and cannot recall seeing any cctv cameras anywhere - streets, bars, the square. Not saying they weren't there, but they were certainly not obvious. It is not the kind of place to need it as the locals watch over their kids and crime is (was) next to zilch. I would doubt there was any cctv for the police to review!

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cctv

Post by russiandoll on 07.03.12 17:37

off topic, but.

cctv of the tapas and pool area would have been interesting, all the Benny Hill to-ing and fro-ing, up and down from the seats to do the checks.
no wonder they didnt want a reconstruction.......laughable.

and the wonderful jatyk forum which seems to have the same 4 or 5 people posting the same repetitive abusive vile stuff about GA is convinced there was a Portuguese government conspiracy with the police and judiciary[ all Masons]...to pervert the course of justice.


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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 07.03.12 17:49

@listener wrote:Re. the CCTV on this thread.

Don't know about 2007, but I have stayed reasonably frequently in the heart of Luz and cannot recall seeing any cctv cameras anywhere - streets, bars, the square. Not saying they weren't there, but they were certainly not obvious. It is not the kind of place to need it as the locals watch over their kids and crime is (was) next to zilch. I would doubt there was any cctv for the police to review!

It's possible that the CCTV Amaral was talking about were such as those in local petrol stations and stores.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Genbug on 07.03.12 17:51

Russiandoll, not just on forums, I've actually seen posters accusing him of being involved in Madeleine's disappearance, and this was on the McCann's official Facebook page!

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by listener on 07.03.12 17:55

@tigger wrote:
@listener wrote:Re. the CCTV on this thread.

Don't know about 2007, but I have stayed reasonably frequently in the heart of Luz and cannot recall seeing any cctv cameras anywhere - streets, bars, the square. Not saying they weren't there, but they were certainly not obvious. It is not the kind of place to need it as the locals watch over their kids and crime is (was) next to zilch. I would doubt there was any cctv for the police to review!

It's possible that the CCTV Amaral was talking about were such as those in local petrol stations and stores.

Of course, thanks for correcting me

I was thinking of only the village itself.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tedless on 05.02.13 0:16

This is the first time I have seen the thread about the sports bag. I have wondered whether any research was done into the travel cots. The travel cots I have hired in the past at resorts have always come in a carry case/hold all which could have been the blue bag photographed?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by jd on 05.02.13 1:09

@tedless wrote:This is the first time I have seen the thread about the sports bag. I have wondered whether any research was done into the travel cots. The travel cots I have hired in the past at resorts have always come in a carry case/hold all which could have been the blue bag photographed?

From the Vanity fair interview "It wasn’t until Kate walked into the villa at 10 and felt a sickening breeze—the front window had been jimmied open—that she realized something terrible had happened. “The scene was stark,” Gerry tells me. On one bed the twins lay sleeping. In the next lay only the plush cat toy Madeleine was never without. That was when Kate came out screaming, “Madeleine has gone!”

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/02/mccanns200802

There's also a video of him saying, "the twins were sleeping on the... err, in their cots."...Sleeping on the what, gerry mccann?Can't remember which video. I think it was one of the documentaries, gerry mccann was driving a car and being filmed as he spoke

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 05.02.13 8:56

The following excerpts are very relevant to the sports bag (even though the slip of the tongue by Payne as to there not being a bag that you could hide a tennis racket in isn't included).
If one clicks on the links, the full articles with relevant photos and the Sky video can be consulted. The bag is clear to see in the wardrobe and must have disappeared some time between the taking of the first and second set of photographs.

Interesting that blue sports bag had been reported in the press wasn't to be found on Google at the time.

From:

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.nl/2011/05/gerry-mccann-and-blue-tennis-bag.html
Monday, May 9, 2011
Gerry McCann and the blue tennis bag

I heard some talk about Gerry McCann losing a blue bag, some said they definitely remember hearing this on the news while others said it was “forum gossip” and never existed. After searching the internet news and blogs for hours I came up with nothing and ended up concluding it’s probably “forum gossip.”
After finding nothing on the internet I forgot all about it, then the other day Ironside posted a link to a Youtube video from Sky News.....it's the report on Gerry’s missing bag.
So if the police were looking for a blue tennis bag then why did Mr Mitchell make a statement to deny its existence? And why was the internet scourged of any reference to it?

Ironside pointed out that Eddie alerted to cadaver at the corner of the McCann couple’s bedroom near the wardrobe ..... it's unlikely for a dead body to be laid openly beside or in the wardrobe but  a bag containing a dead body placed there ready for removal isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

Transcript of Sky news video@ 0:22
Martin Brunt: "And detectives have been searching for a blue tennis bag that went missing from the McCanns holiday apartment. The bag belonged to Gerry McCann, he’d been playing tennis in the hours before his daughter vanished."
Man (I don’t know who the official looking man is): "There’s a bag of, of a size that could be taking away from the flat a child that would be of great interest to the investigating officer."
[...]

From:
http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.nl/2009/12/madeleine-mccann-gerrys-blue-tennis-bag.html

[...]It's the tennis bag that's of particular interest here. Martin Brunt explains that the missing bag is one of two important lines of enquiry for the police.

That was December 23rd 2007. On December 24th 2007, in a Daily Telegraph report, the McCann family was quoted as saying that the tennis bag was not the focus of the police investigation. Clarence Mitchell put in a strange twopenn'rth.
"But Clarence Mitchell, the spokesman for Madeleine's parents, dismissed the report, insisting that Gerry had never owned such a bag."
"As far as Kate and Gerry are concerned, there is no missing tennis bag," he said.
"They came back from holiday with everything except of course, tragically, Madeleine."

So, Gerry had never owned such a bag and Kate and Gerry say there is no missing tennis bag. So, did he ask Kate and Gerry, "Is a blue tennis bag of yours missing?" And they said no? The statement appears to be in two very distant parts, which don't necessarily add up to the same thing. There isn't a bag missing because they've still got it and they came back from holiday with the same blue bag that they went with? There isn't a bag missing because they know where it is?
The McCanns are not quoted directly as saying they never had a blue tennis bag. The McCann family was quoted as saying that the bag was not the focus of police investigation and that, apart from Madeleine, nothing was left behind when they returned home.
unquote

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 05.02.13 9:08

@tedless wrote:This is the first time I have seen the thread about the sports bag. I have wondered whether any research was done into the travel cots. The travel cots I have hired in the past at resorts have always come in a carry case/hold all which could have been the blue bag photographed?

The cots was placed there by the staff at OC , and those "bags" carrying cots is much smaller that what we se in the picture of the bag in closeth. So No it was not the bags for the cots.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 05.02.13 9:34

I have a couple of those cots. They come in a sort of nylon cloth tube with a draw string, and are almost impossible to put back. Not big enough.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by jd on 05.02.13 11:55

From gerry mccanns blogs:

27th May 2007
The couple of Sunday articles we read did not cover much of what we talked about and seemed to get some of the other stuff wrong! We stated that Sean and Amelie are sleeping in our room (in separate cots) because of other family staying with us and that we were trying to treat them as normal and not be overprotective. This came out that we were so protective we have to have them sleeping in our bed! These inaccuracies are not important in our search for Madeleine and the next phase is being planned currently....Important enough needing to defend yourself in your blog though

28th May 2007
We have decided that for the majority of trips it will not be practicable, or fair, to take Sean and Amelie with us. They have an established routine which we do not want to disrupt and will be looked after by very close family. Tonight for the first time they have gone to sleep in their own single beds, rather than cots, now that another two of our family have gone home. We were planning to turn their cots at home into beds after our 1 week holiday but obviously this has been delayed with Madeleine’s abduction. sad We have been in Praia da Luz for over 4 weeks and Sean and Amelie’s development from toddlers to little boy and girl continues. Madeleine will really notice the difference when she sees them!

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 14.02.13 8:26

Just to keep info together. I came across this one in the timeline. I'd been looking for a statement that Gerry first said he'd lost it.

The Times (or Timesonline) article is by David Smith. An ardent pro McCann who was 'briefed' by Gerry (his own words) after the Rothley meeting.
Therefore the article is of interest.
1. Gerry had lost a bag. It was stolen!
2. Gerry never had a bag which he lost or was stolen according to Clarence Mitchell.
3. According to Payne, he never had a bag big enough to hide a tennis racket..

23/12

It is revealed that police want to trace a blue tennis bag allegedly taken from Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment on the night Madeleine went missing. Detectives think the hold-all could have been used to carry Madeleine as she was taken away, or even to transport the three-year-old's body. It belonged to the girl's father but has not been seen since the night of May 3, according to a Sky News documentary due to be broadcast on Christmas Eve.
Expert Tony Rogers, who reviews unsolved cases for British police and worked on the Soham investigation, said: "If it's a bag of a size that could be used to take a child away from the flat, that would be of great interest to the investigating officer." But McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell flatly denied that Mr McCann had lost a bag during the family's holiday. He said: "As far as Kate and Gerry are concerned, there is no missing tennis bag. They came back from holiday with everything except of course, tragically, Madeleine."
Mr McCann told friends yesterday that he did not take any tennis equipment to Praia da Luz, and did not own a blue tennis bag. But Sky News stood by its story, which it said came from sources who had travelled to the resort after Madeleine's disappearance.
Portuguese newspaper Diaria de Noticas reports that the Policiaria Judiciaria have been searching for months for a blue tennis bag, with sufficient size to carry a small child, which belonged to Gerry McCann. The story, advanced by Sky News, adds that Gerry McCann assured PJ investigators at the time that the bag had been "stolen".

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 14.02.13 8:34

@tigger wrote:J
Portuguese newspaper Diaria de Noticas reports that the Policiaria Judiciaria have been searching for months for a blue tennis bag, with sufficient size to carry a small child, which belonged to Gerry McCann. The story, advanced by Sky News, adds that Gerry McCann assured PJ investigators at the time that the bag had been "stolen".
Was there a PJ officers statement about this ?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 14.02.13 9:13

@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:J
Portuguese newspaper Diaria de Noticas reports that the Policiaria Judiciaria have been searching for months for a blue tennis bag, with sufficient size to carry a small child, which belonged to Gerry McCann. The story, advanced by Sky News, adds that Gerry McCann assured PJ investigators at the time that the bag had been "stolen".
Was there a PJ officers statement about this ?

I haven't seen it in the files, so it may well be withheld. David Smith was usually well informed. Sky news would be Brunt and he did report about the missing bag at the time. Since Dr. Amaral seems to find it of importance, I'm hoping that such a statement of theft would be in the files.
The statement of theft certainly is in character imo.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 14.02.13 14:02

I'm sure if theft had been mentioned it would be in the files and treated very seriously following an abduction. There's also the matter of Madeleine's pink blanket that never seemed to surface.

The strange thing is it'd be easy to explain a missing bag in their situation. They had been in 3 different apartments and had a lot of friends and family members coming and going. Simply stating that someone must have taken it with them would have sufficed.

I have my reservations about Sky. Their coverage of the Sandy Hook shooting and their "source information" was wide off the mark.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 14.02.13 17:31

@tigger wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:J
Portuguese newspaper Diaria de Noticas reports that the Policiaria Judiciaria have been searching for months for a blue tennis bag, with sufficient size to carry a small child, which belonged to Gerry McCann. The story, advanced by Sky News, adds that Gerry McCann assured PJ investigators at the time that the bag had been "stolen".
Was there a PJ officers statement about this ?

I haven't seen it in the files, so it may well be withheld. David Smith was usually well informed. Sky news would be Brunt and he did report about the missing bag at the time. Since Dr. Amaral seems to find it of importance, I'm hoping that such a statement of theft would be in the files.
The statement of theft certainly is in character imo.

Didn't GM report a theft of a bag with golfclubs from his car at some point too?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 14.02.13 17:33

@Portia wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:J
Portuguese newspaper Diaria de Noticas reports that the Policiaria Judiciaria have been searching for months for a blue tennis bag, with sufficient size to carry a small child, which belonged to Gerry McCann. The story, advanced by Sky News, adds that Gerry McCann assured PJ investigators at the time that the bag had been "stolen".
Was there a PJ officers statement about this ?

I haven't seen it in the files, so it may well be withheld. David Smith was usually well informed. Sky news would be Brunt and he did report about the missing bag at the time. Since Dr. Amaral seems to find it of importance, I'm hoping that such a statement of theft would be in the files.
The statement of theft certainly is in character imo.

Didn't GM report a theft of a bag with golfclubs from his car at some point too?

Yes, and then there's the wallet too, unlucky man isn't he?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 14.02.13 17:36

@tigger wrote:
@Portia wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@tigger wrote:J
Portuguese newspaper Diaria de Noticas reports that the Policiaria Judiciaria have been searching for months for a blue tennis bag, with sufficient size to carry a small child, which belonged to Gerry McCann. The story, advanced by Sky News, adds that Gerry McCann assured PJ investigators at the time that the bag had been "stolen".
Was there a PJ officers statement about this ?

I haven't seen it in the files, so it may well be withheld. David Smith was usually well informed. Sky news would be Brunt and he did report about the missing bag at the time. Since Dr. Amaral seems to find it of importance, I'm hoping that such a statement of theft would be in the files.
The statement of theft certainly is in character imo.

Didn't GM report a theft of a bag with golfclubs from his car at some point too?

Yes, and then there's the wallet too, unlucky man isn't he?

And poor Maddie stolen as well, which was mentioned as a fate worse than death etc.

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