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Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 06.03.12 17:44

[quote="Merrymo"]
@Portia wrote:[

I haven't copied any of the comment about Madeleine's appearance because in my opinion it is frankly ludicrous.


That observation almost beats another one I heard a while back. i.e. That the photograph of Maddie eating vanilla icecream proved 'neglect' because her parents knew that chocolate was her favourites flavour. And yes, the poster was being serious.

Merrymo, I think that the ice-cream comment is more likely to have been from a troll. There have been people on here in the past saying the silliest things to discredit the forum.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Clouseau on 06.03.12 19:39

to be fair chocolate was confirmed to be Maddies favourite icecream after the sighting in Brussells I myself prefer tutti frutti but there you go

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Merrymo on 06.03.12 20:59

@Miraflores wrote:
One would have thought THAT would have been THE top most urgent
priority from the moment the police were told of what JT had seen.

It does depend on what time she got round to telling the police. She was in no hurry to tell Kate and Gerry, so probably didn't think to tell the police either.



JT told the GNR as soon as they arrived on the scene, and when the PJ police arrived she was taken to see them and told them. She didn't tell Kate and Gerry directly herself at that point because they were so distraught and she didn't want to add to their distress. After all this was still only couple of hours after Maddie's disappearance, and I presume there was still hope that she might be found safe and well. It was not until the next night that at HER request (not the police's) - she took the Police to the place where she was when she saw the man. They made a few notes. The lack of action on the part of the police in not immediately checking the CCTV footage was appalling IMO.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by mexx on 06.03.12 21:02

Where on earth do you get figures of 30 or 40 kilos?! Madeleine's declared height was 90 centimetres, which means she would have weighed around 13 kilos. (around 28 pounds).

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 06.03.12 21:24

@Merrymo wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
One would have thought THAT would have been THE top most urgent
priority from the moment the police were told of what JT had seen.

It does depend on what time she got round to telling the police. She was in no hurry to tell Kate and Gerry, so probably didn't think to tell the police either.



JT told the GNR as soon as they arrived on the scene, and when the PJ police arrived she was taken to see them and told them. She didn't tell Kate and Gerry directly herself at that point because they were so distraught and she didn't want to add to their distress. After all this was still only couple of hours after Maddie's disappearance, and I presume there was still hope that she might be found safe and well. It was not until the next night that at HER request (not the police's) - she took the Police to the place where she was when she saw the man. They made a few notes. The lack of action on the part of the police in not immediately checking the CCTV footage was appalling IMO.

Immediately checking the footage? Just how many police do you think there are in a small place like PDL? They weren't called till 10.40pm and most were out searching for Madeleine, or knocking on doors, or getting a description from the parents. You have to contact the owners of the premises for the camera footage. Most places would be closed, how could they check immediately.
Surely the first priority was to search and not sit on backsides viewing CCTV, that comes later when more officers get drafted in from neighbouring areas and that unfortunately does take time.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 06.03.12 21:34

@mexx wrote:Where on earth do you get figures of 30 or 40 kilos?! Madeleine's declared height was 90 centimetres, which means she would have weighed around 13 kilos. (around 28 pounds).


It's not likely she was that short, it would be off the chart for that age - looking at the tennis girl photo, the photo in the kitchen - she's in the region of 114 cm. which is around the weight given of 30 kg. She certainly looks skinny in that tennis photograph, the real problem is who is the real Maddie? Or is the tennis photo shopped as well?
In any case 90 cm for four years old is off the chart - not even 5% of the norm.
Now the body of the tennis girl, who is hunched and compared to the diameter of the tennis balls which are in the same plane, works out at a minimum of 114 - that doesn't really allow for the angle and the hunched shoulders. That's too tall - to me that body looks like a six year old.

If you google the line below you'll get lots of charts.

Height and Weight for Children Calculator
Sex Girl
Age 4 Year
Optimal Height 102 cm

Range
(90 - 112 ) cm

Optimal Weight 16 kg

Range (12 - 23 ) kg

So that would give an average height of 102 cm and weight of 16 kg. about 2.5 stone.

For 114 cm it would be more, but perhaps my previous post which used a different graph of 30 kg. weight was aimed at US children?
Here too you can see that by 112 cm. it's already 23 kg.
Still, 30 kgs seems too much here for 114 cm.

It would help rather if anybody had any idea what Maddie looked like, her true height (not the poster were she probably was even less than 90 cm! at two and a half) and weight.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by mexx on 06.03.12 22:03

World Health Organisation

age: Average / Minimum Height (and Weight) for Girls

4: 102.7 cms (16.2 kgs) / 98.4 (14 kg)

above 18.5 kg is overweight and over 21.5 is obese. Madeleine was not overweight judging by the photos. 30 or 40 kilos would be morbidly obese even for a tall child!

I don't think she was tall for her age, rather the contrary, so not over 1 metre.


The WHO charts are pretty much standard use internationally so I suspect that certain references quoted were actually in pounds, not in kilos.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Merrymo on 07.03.12 0:22

[quote="Jean"]
@Merrymo wrote:
@Portia wrote:[

I haven't copied any of the comment about Madeleine's appearance because in my opinion it is frankly ludicrous.


That observation almost beats another one I heard a while back. i.e. That the photograph of Maddie eating vanilla icecream proved 'neglect' because her parents knew that chocolate was her favourites flavour. And yes, the poster was being serious.

Merrymo, I think that the ice-cream comment is more likely to have been from a troll. There have been people on here in the past saying the silliest things to discredit the forum.



It wasn't on this forum Jean - it was on an AOL MB which has now closed. I should have made that clear. But I can assure you the poster was not a troll - just someone who is extremely passionate about the case (and that's putting it mildly) and probably the biggest Anti McCann poster on the planet!

(I quite liked her).

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by aiyoyo on 07.03.12 6:13

A nearly 4-year old girl weighting 30kg! Over 60lbs! You got to be kidding me - that is weight for the obese!

If you don't believe me google it and you will find that by any standard be is World Health Organisation or whatever that is grossly overweight.

An average weight for a 4-year old girl or boy is between 30-35 lb, and anything about 50 lb is obese.

Like I mentioned earlier, Maddie being small for her age cant be more than 30 lb.





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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Gillyspot on 07.03.12 6:31

[quote="Merrymo"]
Jean wrote:
@Merrymo wrote:
@Portia wrote:[

I haven't copied any of the comment about Madeleine's appearance because in my opinion it is frankly ludicrous.


That observation almost beats another one I heard a while back. i.e. That the photograph of Maddie eating vanilla icecream proved 'neglect' because her parents knew that chocolate was her favourites flavour. And yes, the poster was being serious.

Merrymo, I think that the ice-cream comment is more likely to have been from a troll. There have been people on here in the past saying the silliest things to discredit the forum.



It wasn't on this forum Jean - it was on an AOL MB which has now closed. I should have made that clear. But I can assure you the poster was not a troll - just someone who is extremely passionate about the case (and that's putting it mildly) and probably the biggest Anti McCann poster on the planet!

(I quite liked her).

What is the point of discussing Madeleine's favourite flavour of icecream. Whether she was able to have chocolate or not was probably due to availability of the flavour not neglect. The same goes for the discussion on her weight. 40lb I could beieve 40 kg no chance.

Possibly people are trying to hijacked Just my thought you know big grin


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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by aquila on 07.03.12 7:49

I'm trying not to go off topic here but topics do tend to overlap. The bag is allegedly missing/unaccounted for. There is discussion about the bag possibly being used to carry Madeleine. There is JT's 'sighting' of a man carrying a child. Wouldn't the most inconspicuous way of transporting a child be to use a pushchair? No-one would find a 'sleeping' child in a pushchair in a holiday resort remarkable.

Mods, please move this to the appropriate topic if you think it's worth discussion.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Merrymo on 07.03.12 8:28

candyfloss wrote:
@Merrymo wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
One would have thought THAT would have been THE top most urgent
priority from the moment the police were told of what JT had seen.

It does depend on what time she got round to telling the police. She was in no hurry to tell Kate and Gerry, so probably didn't think to tell the police either.



JT told the GNR as soon as they arrived on the scene, and when the PJ police arrived she was taken to see them and told them. She didn't tell Kate and Gerry directly herself at that point because they were so distraught and she didn't want to add to their distress. After all this was still only couple of hours after Maddie's disappearance, and I presume there was still hope that she might be found safe and well. It was not until the next night that at HER request (not the police's) - she took the Police to the place where she was when she saw the man. They made a few notes. The lack of action on the part of the police in not immediately checking the CCTV footage was appalling IMO.

Immediately checking the footage? Just how many police do you think there are in a small place like PDL? They weren't called till 10.40pm and most were out searching for Madeleine, or knocking on doors, or getting a description from the parents. You have to contact the owners of the premises for the camera footage. Most places would be closed, how could they check immediately.
Surely the first priority was to search and not sit on backsides viewing CCTV, that comes later when more officers get drafted in from neighbouring areas and that unfortunately does take time.

(second attempt to post this):-(

'Reception' were phoned by a Tapas bar member of staff immediately after the alarm was raised and everyone had rushed away from the bar. Hotel staff called the police. 15 mins or so later - because they had not turned up Gerry McCann asked them ring again. The GDR arrived at around 11.00p.m - having received 2 instructions via their car radio to go to the scene. The PJ police arrived some time after the GDR. The statements of the GDR who were first on the scene are in the authenticated witness files.

The PJ police went away after 2/3 hours saying they would be returning the next morning after 9.00.pm .. IMO having been told about the JT sighting - they should have immediately been instructed to check out any CCTV along the route along which the person JT saw was heading - as their first priority. They did not, and Amaral commented on that later, admitting that they had let Maddie down, by not checking the local CCTV sooner.

It was also around 2 weeks before details of the JT sighting were released to the public. The only 'good' thing about that is that the Smith family could not have been influenced by JT's description of the man she saw, because they didn't know about it.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by aquila on 07.03.12 8:59

Either I'm going bonkers or this thread is being hi-jacked by off topic discussion on almost every subject with no facts to back it up. I admit I don't know where to post things sometimes because I read so much on the forum and things digress.

Please Mods, can we put a bit of orderliness into things?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 07.03.12 9:06

@aquila wrote:Either I'm going bonkers or this thread is being hi-jacked by off topic discussion on almost every subject with no facts to back it up. I admit I don't know where to post things sometimes because I read so much on the forum and things digress.

Please Mods, can we put a bit of orderliness into things?

It's difficult aquila, because Mr Amaral does go on about weight in his interview, and people start discussing that, which then leads them on to height etc., but I know what you mean. CCTV has nothing to do with this thread and what the PJ did, so it would be good idea if members could try and stay on the topic of this thread, which is about the missing sports bag. thanks

About the missing bag, isn't there something in KM's book about people saying they had seen Her and GM with a bag. I'm sure I've seen it somewhere. Doesn't she say it is a black bag.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 07.03.12 9:16

p. 242. "A witness claimed to have seen Gerry and me carrying a big black bag and acting suspiciously. This was absolute nonsense, but 'evidence' of this kind came down to one person's word against another."

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by aquila on 07.03.12 9:28

@PeterMac wrote:p. 242. "A witness claimed to have seen Gerry and me carrying a big black bag and acting suspiciously. This was absolute nonsense, but 'evidence' of this kind came down to one person's word against another."

does KM reveal who the witness is? thought not. The bag is in the photographs. The bag was there and then the bag wasn't. Where's the bag Kate? It's not a difficult question to answer is it? If the bag had been used to pack a few things for the twins to go to the Payne's apartment on the night of Madeleine's disappearance that's an easy answer. Produce the bag, answer the question, move on to the most important thing of finding your daughter.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 07.03.12 9:45

@PeterMac wrote:p. 242. "A witness claimed to have seen Gerry and me carrying a big black bag and acting suspiciously. This was absolute nonsense, but 'evidence' of this kind came down to one person's word against another."

Thanks PeterMac thumbsup

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 07.03.12 9:48

candyfloss wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:p. 242. "A witness claimed to have seen Gerry and me carrying a big black bag and acting suspiciously. This was absolute nonsense, but 'evidence' of this kind came down to one person's word against another."

Thanks PeterMac thumbsup

Another question, is this in the PJ files, I can't remember reading it, or has it been witheld? It is just strange that this witness would be mentioned in the book.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by russiandoll on 07.03.12 10:37

candyfloss wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:p. 242. "A witness claimed to have seen Gerry and me carrying a big black bag and acting suspiciously. This was absolute nonsense, but 'evidence' of this kind came down to one person's word against another."

Thanks PeterMac thumbsup

Another question, is this in the PJ files, I can't remember reading it, or has it been witheld? It is just strange that this witness would be mentioned in the book.

will check. The quote above is typically dismissive of Kate McCann, similar to the" insutling to her intelligence" remark when the police suggested Maddie might have wandered out of the apartment. It is hardly nonsense to say you saw a couple with a black bag, unless the witness was hallucinating, it is a simple case of mistaken identity. Neither is it insulting to intelligence to think a child might have wandered out of an unlocked apartment........more logical to suspect that in the first instance than an abduction.

This insistence on the impossibility of Maddie wandering out was because Kate found both gates closed, patio door and curtains there closed...Maddie would not have closed all these after leaving 5a.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Me on 07.03.12 11:05

@Merrymo wrote:The PJ police went away after 2/3 hours saying they would be returning the next morning after 9.00.pm .. IMO having been told about the JT sighting - they should have immediately been instructed to check out any CCTV along the route along which the person JT saw was heading - as their first priority. They did not, and Amaral commented on that later, admitting that they had let Maddie down, by not checking the local CCTV sooner. [/color]

PJ went away after 2/3 hours?? You sure about that:

Processos Volume V

Pages 1318 – 1319

Date: 27/05/16

Witness Statement

Paolo Jorge Fernandes Neto

GNR Officer

He has been a GNR officer since 2002.

On the night of 4th May at 01.00 after having begun duty at his post, he first heard, from the Patrol Commander, Officer Casimiro, that a girl had disappeared and that he to go and join his colleagues who were there.

At about 01.05 – 01.20 they arrived at the site. They went to Sergeant Duarte, Commander of the Lagos GNR division, who was on the corner pavement between Rua Agostinho da Silva and Rua Francisco Gentil Martins, where they were informed about the disappearance of a little girl from an apartment at the OC tourist complex.

Afterwards they received a photograph of Madeleine McCann and received orders to search the whole of the Rua da Ramalhete and the access points to Quinta da Bela Vista.

They did not enter the apartment zone nor the parking area opposite.

The patrol he was a member of did not contact anyone, nor were they approached by anyone.

He saw many people, mainly British, who were helping with the searching.

At about 02.15 – 02.30 and after having helped his colleagues from the PJ who had arrived at the site, they contacted the Commander again and were told to search the area surrounding the resort.

During this search they were approached by two people, one, a Portuguese individual who worked at the Mirage Complex, who asked if they knew anything yet, and by a female who was with the individual and who participated in the conversation.

They were in the area until about 09.00 searching in coordination with GNR team members, at which time they were relieved by other officers who came on duty.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 07.03.12 11:13

@Me wrote:
@Merrymo wrote:The PJ police went away after 2/3 hours saying they would be returning the next morning after 9.00.pm .. IMO having been told about the JT sighting - they should have immediately been instructed to check out any CCTV along the route along which the person JT saw was heading - as their first priority. They did not, and Amaral commented on that later, admitting that they had let Maddie down, by not checking the local CCTV sooner. [/color]

PJ went away after 2/3 hours?? You sure about that:

Processos Volume V

Pages 1318 – 1319

Date: 27/05/16

Witness Statement

Paolo Jorge Fernandes Neto

GNR Officer

He has been a GNR officer since 2002.

On the night of 4th May at 01.00 after having begun duty at his post, he first heard, from the Patrol Commander, Officer Casimiro, that a girl had disappeared and that he to go and join his colleagues who were there.

At about 01.05 – 01.20 they arrived at the site. They went to Sergeant Duarte, Commander of the Lagos GNR division, who was on the corner pavement between Rua Agostinho da Silva and Rua Francisco Gentil Martins, where they were informed about the disappearance of a little girl from an apartment at the OC tourist complex.

Afterwards they received a photograph of Madeleine McCann and received orders to search the whole of the Rua da Ramalhete and the access points to Quinta da Bela Vista.

They did not enter the apartment zone nor the parking area opposite.

The patrol he was a member of did not contact anyone, nor were they approached by anyone.

He saw many people, mainly British, who were helping with the searching.

At about 02.15 – 02.30 and after having helped his colleagues from the PJ who had arrived at the site, they contacted the Commander again and were told to search the area surrounding the resort.

During this search they were approached by two people, one, a Portuguese individual who worked at the Mirage Complex, who asked if they knew anything yet, and by a female who was with the individual and who participated in the conversation.

They were in the area until about 09.00 searching in coordination with GNR team members, at which time they were relieved by other officers who came on duty.

Thank you for posting that Me, I was looking for it. thumbsup Just shows what total inaccuracies are being posted.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 07.03.12 11:47

candyfloss wrote:
Thank you for posting that Me, I was looking for it. Just shows what total inaccuracies are being posted.
Why, and by whom ?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 07.03.12 11:53

@PeterMac wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Thank you for posting that Me, I was looking for it. Just shows what total inaccuracies are being posted.
Why, and by whom ?

Merrymo wrote:
The PJ police went away after 2/3 hours saying they would be returning the next morning after 9.00.pm

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 07.03.12 13:24

Thank you. I appreciate that, but my question remains,
Why, and by whom ?
We know that the police searched through the night, resumed the following day with helicopters, dogs and so on, and that large numbers of people from the village and holiday makers joined the McCanns in their search , sorry, joined in the search.
Who is Merrymo, and why is s/he/it posting that, causing us to go back into the files to dig out the evidence.
Are we being diverted ?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Me on 07.03.12 13:30

@PeterMac wrote:Thank you. I appreciate that, but my question remains,
Why, and by whom ?
We know that the police searched through the night, resumed the following day with helicopters, dogs and so on, and that large numbers of people from the village and holiday makers joined the McCanns in their search , sorry, joined in the search.
Who is Merrymo, and why is s/he/it posting that, causing us to go back into the files to dig out the evidence.
Are we being diverted ?

Strangely, all my replies to his/her/it's posts, debunking what he/she/it has posted, have been ignored and not replied to.

Wonder why?

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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