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Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 11.06.15 8:51

@Rufus T wrote:
@tigger wrote:Thank you Christina, just when you think you know everything there is to know, something else turns up. 

The Hubbards' missing computer?  That is very interesting, would make a lot of sense imo. Anyone know?
 

Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
Thursday May 01, 2008
 
I don't suppose it will distract them from their endeavours this weekend, but two of Kate and Gerry McCanns' closest friends in Praia da Luz have been burgled ahead of the Madeleine anniversary.
 
Anglican priest Haynes Hubbard and his wife Susan lost a computer that contains personal and confidential email exchanges between the two couples.
 
The laptop also held notes on which Father Hubbard was basing his sermon about Madeleine at the weekend.
 
Mrs Hubbard is concerned, too, about private telephone numbers stored on a mobile that was also stolen.
 
The Hubbards became great friends and comforters of the McCanns in the days after Madeleine's disappearance and have kept in touch since Gerry and Kate returned to the UK.
 
I interviewed Father Hubbard several times and he was always a rather serious guy.
 
His wife was quite different.
 
One afternoon I spotted her emptying an impressive bag of bottles beside the recycling point at the end of the promenade.
 
"Oh no," she gasped in mock horror. "Vicar's wife in secret booze scandal."
 
She didn't strike me as the Amy Winehouse type.
 
But, then, I've never heard her sing.
 
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id103.html


Not only a computer but a phone as well hmm.
I missed it too. thank you. Certainly a clip of Brunt about the blue bag sometime.


Goodness, was that written by Brunt? That last bit I mean. I would be inclined to doubt the truth of this theft on the basis of the precious Sermon about Madeleine, which I feel is just the right tweek to bring tears to the eyes of the general public.

These tweeks to add to the pathos of a story occur frequently. 
'i've had the best day ever Mummy!' Is one as is Gerry's last view od his first-born 'she was lying in the recovery position'. But that one I'm  inclined to believe.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by FH on 11.06.15 11:01

I am trying to make sense of the time line, assuming the blue bag is relevant to the disappearance.

Given that the bag was photographed on the shelf after the alleged abduction, then disappeared sometime later, what do people think the sequence of events was?

Was M in the bag while the PJ were there and then removed once the heat died down? Is this why the parents were perhaps trying to distract the PJ by weeping and wailing? This would seem risky, but maybe not. Would police instantly start rummaging through holdalls when notified a child is missing? 

Or, had M been transported somewhere earlier that day/week in the bag and then the  bag had been brought back empty? Why would an empty bag , no-one else cared existed, be brought back to the apartment?  Was it in case someone was seen carrying the bag out and needed to be seen carrying it back in? Was the bag then conveniently lost afterwards because of trace evidence?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 11.06.15 11:18

@FH wrote:
Or, had M been transported somewhere earlier that day/week in the bag and then the  bag had been brought back empty? Why would an empty bag , no-one else cared existed, be brought back to the apartment?  Was it in case someone was seen carrying the bag out and needed to be seen carrying it back in? Was the bag then conveniently lost afterwards because of trace evidence?

That is certainly one of my working hypotheses.
Achilles tendon, no tennis for GM in the afternoon, but a man in full tennis kit, carrying a tennis bag, in a resort full of tennis courts - and remember that the lessons were NOT on the courts next to the Tapas bar - a man like that is invisible in full sight.
He can go anywhere.
Even a taxi driver would not remember
Then returns still carrying a bag, the Tendon heals miraculously and he plays tennis like a demon until early evening, not even stopping to nip back to the apartment, but sending Payne in his place.
Bag back on shelf, where it was unfortunately photographed,
but it has leaked onto the shelf, where the dog accurately identified the scent of Human Cadaverine
so the bag has to be disposed of.

Mitchell then denies there was any such bag, which makes is absolutely certain that there was, even if we didn't have the photo.

And that means M died before the evening of 3/5/7 probably during the evening / night of 2/5/7 - 3/5/7
Hence the insistence that we all look at the time and DATE on the forged Last Photo, which becomes the only item of "McProof" that she was alive on 3/5/7.

It sort of fits !

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by BlueBag on 11.06.15 11:32

That's my opinion also.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Jamming on 11.06.15 11:57

@PeterMac wrote:
That is certainly one of my working hypotheses.
Achilles tendon, no tennis for GM in the afternoon, but a man in full tennis kit, carrying a tennis bag, in a resort full of tennis courts - and remember that the lessons were NOT on the courts next to the Tapas bar - a man like that is invisible in full sight.
He can go anywhere.
Even a taxi driver would not remember
Then returns still carrying a bag, the Tendon heals miraculously and he plays tennis like a demon until early evening, not even stopping to nip back to the apartment, but sending Payne in his place.
Bag back on shelf, where it was unfortunately photographed,
but it has leaked onto the shelf, where the dog accurately identified the scent of Human Cadaverine
so the bag has to be disposed of.

Mitchell then denies there was any such bag, which makes is absolutely certain that there was, even if we didn't have the photo.

And that means M died before the evening of 3/5/7 probably during the evening / night of 2/5/7 - 3/5/7
Hence the insistence that we all look at the time and DATE on the forged Last Photo, which becomes the only item of "McProof" that she was alive on 3/5/7.

It sort of fits !

More than sort of fits PM, gets a big  thumbsup from me

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 11.06.15 13:07

@Portia wrote:Sky News will never be heard of again.

That would be a result. Dreadful organisation. Should be closed down tomorrow.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Rogue-a-Tory on 11.06.15 15:11

I agree with PeterMac in terms of MBM meeting her end before 3 May and the sports bag being used as the method for transporting the cadaver. I hadn't thought of the return to the wardrobe as being how the cadaver scent was introduced for Eddie to find, but had wondered if the body had been kept in the sports bag in the wardrobe overnight from 2 May. But there's also the mystery of the fridge to contend with and why Murat was 'summoned' on 30 April which could put the sad demise earlier than 2 May.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 11.06.15 16:07

Along with the missing blue bag is the missing pink blanket. Wonder if they are together somewhere along with missing Madeleine?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 11.06.15 16:11

Assuming that the photo of the blue bag was taken by police in the hours after 'the abduction' surely the early sniffer dogs would have reacted very strongly to this bag if a body had been inside it at any point? Even though the early sniffer dogs were not trained to alert to cadaver. 

And surely the McCanns wouldn't leave a bag contaminated with the odour of a body on their shelves on the night that police arrive? Knowing that police are going to search and then seal off the apartment?

Isn't it more likely that the blue bag was used to transport Madeleine's body at a later date? For instance maybe to transport a body from where-ever it had been hidden into the Renault Scenic which the later cadaver dogs alerted to?

It is on record that these early 'search and rescue' dogs became very agitated around empty apartment 5J. Although they did not "alert" to what they are trained to alert to - in other words they did not 'alert' to the scent which they had been given on an item supposedly with Madeleine's scent on it.

But of course it is perfectly possible that the item that the McCann's handed over to police had someone else's scent on it. And the McCanns deliberately wanted the dogs to follow a certain trail. A false trail that would lead the dogs away from any evidence that might incriminate themselves and a trail that would go in the direction of Jane Tanner's Tanner-man abductor. In order to lend credence to the Team McCann version of events. 

I wonder if Team McCann were hoping that the dogs would follow this trail below? The trail that the Daily Mirror allege that the early search and rescue dogs followed when they were called in after Madeleine's disappearance? As noted in the PJ file linked below, this is a false report of the trail followed by the early sniffer dogs.

The route as reported by the Daily Mirror:



The photo below is the actual route taken by the sniffer dogs on both the 4th May and the 8th May. As outlined in the PJ files. A totally different route and one which, rather than leading away from the apartment and Ocean Club leads into the Ocean Club. As noted in the PJ files:

Although we now know the route described by the Daily Mirror, and highlighted above, to be incorrect, the pictures remain as they do provide good aerial views of the area and also provide a good example of how incorrect newspaper reports can take on a life of their own.

The route as reported in the PJ files:




The early sniffer dogs left apartment 5A and turned left and  became very agitated outside nearby apartment 5J. Both the front of the apartment and the back.  This happened on both the 4th May and the 7th May. 

As far as I am aware apartment 5J was one of the apartments that was not searched for several days because they had to get hold of the keys or maybe get owners permission?  Maybe not searched until 7th May or possibly even 10th May. I wonder who owned this apartment?

When the police eventually searched apartment 5J they found a fridge with the door open and rotting meat and vegetables inside. 


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id94.html


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANTONIO_SILVA.htm


https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/tag/apartment-5h/


http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3888-apt-5j-what-q-says-about-the-gnr-search-and-rescue-dogs


More on the blue bag plus evidence of how unsafe it was to leave three children under four unattended in the apartment when there were so many potential hazards around:

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/gerry-mccann-and-blue-tennis-bag.html

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by BlueBag on 11.06.15 16:19

@j.rob wrote:Isn't it more likely that the blue bag was used to transport Madeleine's body at a later date? For instance maybe to transport a body from where-ever it had been hidden into the Renault Scenic which the later cadaver dogs alerted to?
No.

That is totally illogical.

Think about it.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 12.06.15 16:10

@Rogue-a-Tory wrote:I agree with PeterMac in terms of MBM meeting her end before 3 May and the sports bag being used as the method for transporting the cadaver. I hadn't thought of the return to the wardrobe as being how the cadaver scent was introduced for Eddie to find, but had wondered if the body had been kept in the sports bag in the wardrobe overnight from 2 May. But there's also the mystery of the fridge to contend with and why Murat was 'summoned' on 30 April which could put the sad demise earlier than 2 May.

I just think that it would be too risky for the McCanns to have left a blue sports bag contaminated with a dead body (let alone containing a dead body!) inside their apartment when they knew that the police would be thoroughly searching the apartment, doing forensics and bringing in sniffer dogs. 

For all they knew the police could even have brought in cadaver sniffer dogs at an earlier stage. I think that the early 'search and rescue' dogs - even though not trained to specifically alert at the scent of cadaver - would have shown a very marked reaction around this bag if it had been used to transport a dead child, let alone contain a body. 

Assuming that Detective Amaral is right and that Madeleine died that week then the McCanns and their friends as doctors would know how quickly a body decomposes, how quickly the scent of cadaver develops and, I assume from some necessary research, how soon the scent of cadaver can be detected by specially trained dogs. 

It would seem that the McCanns in their desperation had managed to find a murder case in the US where cadaver dog evidence was dismissed as being inaccurate and judges dismissed the evidence. However, later Zapata pleaded guilty, admitted what he had done and the dogs were proved to be accurate in their findings.

Oh dear TM. 

I like the 'Extracts for Scapegoats' piece at the bottom of this link just before the comments in which the writer scorns Kate's claim that she came into contact with six corpses prior to the holiday as part of her work. 

http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 12.06.15 16:24

@j.rob wrote:
@Rogue-a-Tory wrote:I agree with PeterMac in terms of MBM meeting her end before 3 May and the sports bag being used as the method for transporting the cadaver. I hadn't thought of the return to the wardrobe as being how the cadaver scent was introduced for Eddie to find, but had wondered if the body had been kept in the sports bag in the wardrobe overnight from 2 May. But there's also the mystery of the fridge to contend with and why Murat was 'summoned' on 30 April which could put the sad demise earlier than 2 May.

I just think that it would be too risky for the McCanns to have left a blue sports bag contaminated with a dead body (let alone containing a dead body!) inside their apartment when they knew that the police would be thoroughly searching the apartment, doing forensics and bringing in sniffer dogs. 

For all they knew the police could even have brought in cadaver sniffer dogs at an earlier stage. I think that the early 'search and rescue' dogs - even though not trained to specifically alert at the scent of cadaver - would have shown a very marked reaction around this bag if it had been used to transport a dead child, let alone contain a body. 

Assuming that Detective Amaral is right and that Madeleine died that week then the McCanns and their friends as doctors would know how quickly a body decomposes, how quickly the scent of cadaver develops and, I assume from some necessary research, how soon the scent of cadaver can be detected by specially trained dogs. 

It would seem that the McCanns in their desperation had managed to find a murder case in the US where cadaver dog evidence was dismissed as being inaccurate and judges dismissed the evidence. However, later Zapata pleaded guilty, admitted what he had done and the dogs were proved to be accurate in their findings.

Oh dear TM. 

I like the 'Extracts for Scapegoats' piece at the bottom of this link just before the comments in which the writer scorns Kate's claim that she came into contact with six corpses prior to the holiday as part of her work. 

http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/
I think that obvious lie about K. McC's clothes being contaminated by six corpses before she went on holiday was a real doozy. Doctors & nurses are very aware of hygiene practices in their line of work, so why would a doctor who had been in contact with a deceased person be contaminated in such a way? How would she have been in contact not with one, but six deceased persons all in the one day? That seems very unlikely IMO. Normally the only contact a doctor has with a dead body is to pronounce them deceased. It would of been interesting to find out from the hospital she worked at how many deaths there were that day, and if she was the doctor who signed off on the deaths? Her story would of been easily provable.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 12.06.15 17:33

I think that obvious lie about K. McC's clothes being contaminated by six corpses before she went on holiday was a real doozy. Doctors & nurses are very aware of hygiene practices in their line of work, so why would a doctor who had been in contact with a deceased person be contaminated in such a way? How would she have been in contact not with one, but six deceased persons all in the one day? That seems very unlikely IMO. Normally the only contact a doctor has with a dead body is to pronounce them deceased. It would of been interesting to find out from the hospital she worked at how many deaths there were that day, and if she was the doctor who signed off on the deaths? Her story would of been easily provable.


-----


Agreed. It is the most desperate attempt to deny the obvious. The GP practice where she worked would have full records of whether Kate McCann had signed off any deaths in the period prior to the holiday. Not sure Kate was suggesting they were in all in one day, though! Think she probably meant in a period of weeks prior to the holiday. However, it is still highly unlikely as she only worked very part-time I do believe. 

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Guest on 12.06.15 17:48

Only wearing the same set of checkered pants too

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 12.06.15 17:59

@j.rob wrote:I think that obvious lie about K. McC's clothes being contaminated by six corpses before she went on holiday was a real doozy. Doctors & nurses are very aware of hygiene practices in their line of work, so why would a doctor who had been in contact with a deceased person be contaminated in such a way? How would she have been in contact not with one, but six deceased persons all in the one day? That seems very unlikely IMO. Normally the only contact a doctor has with a dead body is to pronounce them deceased. It would of been interesting to find out from the hospital she worked at how many deaths there were that day, and if she was the doctor who signed off on the deaths? Her story would of been easily provable.


-----


Agreed. It is the most desperate attempt to deny the obvious. The GP practice where she worked would have full records of whether Kate McCann had signed off any deaths in the period prior to the holiday. Not sure Kate was suggesting they were in all in one day, though! Think she probably meant in a period of weeks prior to the holiday. However, it is still highly unlikely as she only worked very part-time I do believe. 
Which still isn't believable IMO. So she wore the same clothes everytime for weeks?? I wouldn't think so. And then wore them again for her PDL vacation after being in contact with six deceased patients for a period of weeks? But who knows what K. McC really meant?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by lj on 12.06.15 19:20

@Portia wrote:Only wearing the same set of checkered pants too


and carrying your child's cuddly toy.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by sallypelt on 12.06.15 20:03

I don't know where to put this, but it's worth posting. This is someone from Exeter who has made a donation to Dr Amaral's fighting fund:


"Good luck Goncalo! You must regret the day that the McCann's arrived in Portugal and have since made your life a living hell. I knew very little about this case and always felt genuinely sorry for Kate and Gerry. I now feel genuinely sorry for you and the defamation of the Portuguese police force by the UK MSM thanks to the McCann's and their supporters. Something huge is being covered up and as a resident of Exeter many whispers have now become local gossip. I pray for both you and those innocent people that have been dragged into this sordid case".

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 12.06.15 20:27

@sallypelt wrote:I don't know where to put this, but it's worth posting. This is someone from Exeter who has made a donation to Dr Amaral's fighting fund:


"Good luck Goncalo! You must regret the day that the McCann's arrived in Portugal and have since made your life a living hell. I knew very little about this case and always felt genuinely sorry for Kate and Gerry. I now feel genuinely sorry for you and the defamation of the Portuguese police force by the UK MSM thanks to the McCann's and their supporters. Something huge is being covered up and as a resident of Exeter many whispers have now become local gossip. I pray for both you and those innocent people that have been dragged into this sordid case".
You could try putting it on the thread that's discussing Amaral's fund rather than the blue sports bag  thumbsup http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11302-fund-now-more-than-17500

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 12.06.15 21:04

@lj wrote:
@Portia wrote:Only wearing the same set of checkered pants too


and carrying your child's cuddly toy.
The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie, which means that cuddlecat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd. I feel  they were props. Textiles contaminate quite quickly and they were both on the bed for hours. 

Now if Kate's clothes were contaminated and travelled with her, they would have contaminated everything in her suitcase. That was not the case. 

So that would mean that cuddlecat was contaminated at a later date? In fact Jon Corner said that the check pants were bought in Portugal, after Maddie disappeared.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by canada12 on 12.06.15 21:14

@tigger wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Portia wrote:Only wearing the same set of checkered pants too


and carrying your child's cuddly toy.
The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie, which means that cuddlecat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd. I feel  they were props. Textiles contaminate quite quickly and they were both on the bed for hours. 

Now if Kate's clothes were contaminated and travelled with her, they would have contaminated everything in her suitcase. That was not the case. 

So that would mean that cuddlecat was contaminated at a later date? In fact Jon Corner said that the check pants were bought in Portugal, after Maddie disappeared.

But then we have the conundrum of the birthday cake photo which clearly shows Kate wearing the check pants in the same photo as an alive Maddie. Unless they're different check pants. Or the birthday cake photo is not as it appears.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by HelenMeg on 12.06.15 21:21

@tigger wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Portia wrote:Only wearing the same set of checkered pants too


and carrying your child's cuddly toy.
The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie, which means that cuddlecat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd. I feel  they were props. Textiles contaminate quite quickly and they were both on the bed for hours. 

Now if Kate's clothes were contaminated and travelled with her, they would have contaminated everything in her suitcase. That was not the case. 

So that would mean that cuddlecat was contaminated at a later date? In fact Jon Corner said that the check pants were bought in Portugal, after Maddie disappeared.
If JC said that, then I would think he said that for a purpose - and would that purpose be to deceive?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 12.06.15 21:51

@sallypelt wrote:I don't know where to put this, but it's worth posting. This is someone from Exeter who has made a donation to Dr Amaral's fighting fund:


"Good luck Goncalo! You must regret the day that the McCann's arrived in Portugal and have since made your life a living hell. I knew very little about this case and always felt genuinely sorry for Kate and Gerry. I now feel genuinely sorry for you and the defamation of the Portuguese police force by the UK MSM thanks to the McCann's and their supporters. Something huge is being covered up and as a resident of Exeter many whispers have now become local gossip. I pray for both you and those innocent people that have been dragged into this sordid case".

Gosh!  spin

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 13.06.15 6:14

@HelenMeg wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Portia wrote:Only wearing the same set of checkered pants too


and carrying your child's cuddly toy.
The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie, which means that cuddlecat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd. I feel  they were props. Textiles contaminate quite quickly and they were both on the bed for hours. 

Now if Kate's clothes were contaminated and travelled with her, they would have contaminated everything in her suitcase. That was not the case. 

So that would mean that cuddlecat was contaminated at a later date? In fact Jon Corner said that the check pants were bought in Portugal, after Maddie disappeared.
If JC said that, then I would think he said that for a purpose - and would that purpose be to deceive?
The check pants are probably from Zara. Portia related a story about a Dutch couple who saw The mnCCs shopping with the twins. i forget when but early iirc. 

I checked out Ebay some time ago and found What looks like an identical new pair ( probably from remaindered stock) for sale. I have a clip.  Seems over keen, but if the check pants were bought after 3/5 it's part of the contamination puzzle.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 13.06.15 8:02

@tigger wrote:
The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie, which means that cuddlecat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd.

Hang on ! Non sequitur alert.
Eddie came to PdL a long time later, He did alert to cuddle cat, but the blanket had been whooshed by then, and was never seen again.
I would guess that the bed room had been made back into a twin by then,

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by BlueBag on 13.06.15 8:10

@canada12 wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Portia wrote:Only wearing the same set of checkered pants too


and carrying your child's cuddly toy.
The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie, which means that cuddlecat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd. I feel  they were props. Textiles contaminate quite quickly and they were both on the bed for hours. 

Now if Kate's clothes were contaminated and travelled with her, they would have contaminated everything in her suitcase. That was not the case. 

So that would mean that cuddlecat was contaminated at a later date? In fact Jon Corner said that the check pants were bought in Portugal, after Maddie disappeared.

But then we have the conundrum of the birthday cake photo which clearly shows Kate wearing the check pants in the same photo as an alive Maddie. Unless they're different check pants. Or the birthday cake photo is not as it appears.

Seems so.

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