Why didn't you come last night...?

Genbug wrote:

tigger wrote:Yes Genbug, from now on we will pretend all phones could be in locations that their owners might not have been in at the time they were in use.
The phone pings differentiate between received and sent calls.
So mathematically speaking - we now have variables of T9 phones where each phone might have been in one of 9 different locations. I'm trying to remember my maths - I think that makes (9 x 9 ) -n (9)? which is 72 locations which are possible for for the phones to be when they're not with the owner.

I'm open to corrections on my math!

Is there really any need for sarcasm Tigger? I thought we were all on the same side? I am a professional researcher and if I stated as fact that a person MUST have been at a certain place because that was where their phoned pinged, then I would be sacked as my research must be based on fact, not assumption. The odds are that it WAS Kate using the phone. But we have seen so many lies and discrepancies in this case that in my opinion, just because a certain phoned pinged in a certain place at a certain time, it doesn't mean that it was the person owning the phone that was using it. It has nothing to do with maths, just common sense.

alison wrote:Kiko`s research shows that the only information we have for Kate Mccann`s phone for the evening of May 1st, is the pings. We do not have any associated numbers or information on whether these were incoming or outgoing calls or incoming or outgoing texts ( although given the short time intervals between the pings these could relate to an exchange of texts).

It`s worth remembering that according to the information we have, GMcs phone was switched off all day on the 1st. So I don`t think it`s unreasonable to keep in the back of our minds the possibility that phones may have been used by people other than their owners. As Genbug says, the most likely explanation is that KMc was using her own phone. But GMcs phone silence over a long period is a key part of Kiko`s phone research - so access to another phone ( such as KMcs/an unregistered pay as you go phone/a phone not disclosed to the PJ) might have been necessary.

Ribisl wrote:"Mrs Fenn says that two nights before Madeleine disappeared one of the children in the apartment was constantly screaming from around 10.30pm to 11.45pm.

"She was crying out for her dad and nobody answered until somebody returned.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

GERRY Thursday, 3 May 2007, they all woke up at the same time between 07H30 and 08H00. While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her “why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying?”.

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/The-Holiday/May-3rd-Timeline-Info-1-775552.html

Mrs McCann also revealed she had tormented herself for a year for not paying more attention to Madeleine on the morning before her disappearance, when she told her parents that she had been crying the previous night in their absence, and asked them where they had been.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id100.html


Maybe I am the only one but I had always imagined Mrs Fenn and the MCs were talking about the same night and had based my initial timeline of 2nd/3rd for her 'disappearance' on that mistaken premise. Comparing notes however it appears Mrs Fenn heard her crying on the night of the 1st and Madeleine mentioned about crying on the 3rd referring to the night before ie 2nd. It shows how easily one can make wrong assumptions.
But does this mean she was left crying both nights??

tigger wrote:Genbug, I apologise for being rude - I'm still of the same opinion but I could have put it better.
No hard feelings I hope.

Merrymo wrote:

Ribisl wrote:"Mrs Fenn says that two nights before Madeleine disappeared one of the children in the apartment was constantly screaming from around 10.30pm to 11.45pm.

"She was crying out for her dad and nobody answered until somebody returned.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

GERRY Thursday, 3 May 2007, they all woke up at the same time between 07H30 and 08H00. While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her “why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying?”.

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/The-Holiday/May-3rd-Timeline-Info-1-775552.html

Mrs McCann also revealed she had tormented herself for a year for not paying more attention to Madeleine on the morning before her disappearance, when she told her parents that she had been crying the previous night in their absence, and asked them where they had been.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id100.html


Maybe I am the only one but I had always imagined Mrs Fenn and the MCs were talking about the same night and had based my initial timeline of 2nd/3rd for her 'disappearance' on that mistaken premise. Comparing notes however it appears Mrs Fenn heard her crying on the night of the 1st and Madeleine mentioned about crying on the 3rd referring to the night before ie 2nd. It shows how easily one can make wrong assumptions.
But does this mean she was left crying both nights??

Mrs Fenns report of a child crying was indeed on the 1st and not the 2nd as some people have wrongly surmised. I do find it difficult to believe that if as claimed Maddie cried for over an hour -(at such a level that it was heard by Mrs Fenn) that the twins, who were only inches away from Maddies bed did not wake up and cry too. On that same night Russell stayed in with his daughter who was unwell. Maybe it was that little girl who Mrs Fenn heard crying in one of the apartments below.

On the night of the 2nd May - which is the night Maddie was referring to, Racheal Oldfield was not well and stayed in. Their apartment was next door to the McCanns, in fact her bedroom was next to Maddies and the twins bedroom. I can't imagine that 2 children crying right next door for any length of time would have gone unnoticed by her.

The McCanns did not have to report what Maddie said to the police, no-one would have known if they had chosen not to mention it. I think the fact that they did - knowing that it could reflect badly on them - (and in fact it was eventually used against them by the Portuguese press) proved that finding Madeleine was more important to them than anything else.

rainbow-fairy wrote:

Merrymo wrote:

Ribisl wrote:"Mrs Fenn says that two nights before Madeleine disappeared one of the children in the apartment was constantly screaming from around 10.30pm to 11.45pm.

"She was crying out for her dad and nobody answered until somebody returned.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

GERRY Thursday, 3 May 2007, they all woke up at the same time between 07H30 and 08H00. While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her “why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying?”.

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/The-Holiday/May-3rd-Timeline-Info-1-775552.html

Mrs McCann also revealed she had tormented herself for a year for not paying more attention to Madeleine on the morning before her disappearance, when she told her parents that she had been crying the previous night in their absence, and asked them where they had been.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id100.html


Maybe I am the only one but I had always imagined Mrs Fenn and the MCs were talking about the same night and had based my initial timeline of 2nd/3rd for her 'disappearance' on that mistaken premise. Comparing notes however it appears Mrs Fenn heard her crying on the night of the 1st and Madeleine mentioned about crying on the 3rd referring to the night before ie 2nd. It shows how easily one can make wrong assumptions.
But does this mean she was left crying both nights??

Mrs Fenns report of a child crying was indeed on the 1st and not the 2nd as some people have wrongly surmised. I do find it difficult to believe that if as claimed Maddie cried for over an hour -(at such a level that it was heard by Mrs Fenn) that the twins, who were only inches away from Maddies bed did not wake up and cry too. On that same night Russell stayed in with his daughter who was unwell. Maybe it was that little girl who Mrs Fenn heard crying in one of the apartments below.

On the night of the 2nd May - which is the night Maddie was referring to, Racheal Oldfield was not well and stayed in. Their apartment was next door to the McCanns, in fact her bedroom was next to Maddies and the twins bedroom. I can't imagine that 2 children crying right next door for any length of time would have gone unnoticed by her.

The McCanns did not have to report what Maddie said to the police, no-one would have known if they had chosen not to mention it. I think the fact that they did - knowing that it could reflect badly on them - (and in fact it was eventually used against them by the Portuguese press) proved that finding Madeleine was more important to them than anything else.

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It would be interesting to hear how you square 'finding Madeleine more important than anything else' with not searching,

My point was as already stated. The McCanns did not have to reveal what their daughter had said to them. But they did. The fact that they knew that information could reflect badly on them was put to one side because they wanted to give every bit of info they could to the police. What Madeline said to them has indeed been used against them ad nauseum, so the point is proven.

Gerry McCann did search on that first night and they both did at the break of daylight the next morning. However, the following days were taken up at the police station and trying to find out what was happening. People tend to forget they were in a foreign country, did not know the area and did not speak the language or know anything about Portuguese procedures regarding missing children. They knew that a massive hunt by locals and the police - helicoptors etc was already being carried out. On another thread there is a photograph of GM and a relative near water on the 7th May - could it be that they were looking for clues or evidence regarding Maddies disappearance. I doubt if they were out for stroll.

Not all parents of missing children search for them. There was prog on TV only today about a Scottish child missing from the age of 3. His mother did not physically search herself for her son. No-one has criticised that lady.

releasing an out-of-date photoshopped image of your daughter when allegedly you'd taken one at the pool that day, not speaking to the GNR or PJ officers 'that' night - the list goes on.

Re the photograph - I have no idea why. Except I find nothing sinister in it. I do find the attitude of some people who appear to expect the McCanns to have behaved as calmly and rationally as if their pet hamster had disappeared rather strange though.

Speaking to the police would not have been straighforward because of the language barrier. I understand that the PJ left and told them they would be returning after 9.00 the next morning. I don't think that would have happened in this country. They must have felt pretty abandoned at that point. Perhaps the PJ would have been better employed gathering any CCTV evidence from the route that Jane Tanner told them that she saw a man carrying a child - instead of leaving it until it was too late. Even Goncalo admitted that was an error.


I don't believe the conversation haPpened at all, that is if Maddie even cried at all (as you state, Rachel was 'ill' next door and heard nothing). I see this as a pathetic attempt to sell the 'abduction hypothesis and the dry run the previous night', nothing more nothing less.