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Very useful marketing tools

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tigger on 22.02.12 9:53

Aiyoyo wrote:
These tiny products like waistbands,stickers and what not are not for generating fund. They are just useful PR campaign exercise tools playing pretense they were reaching out to the masses to engage them in their search. If they were determine to find her shouldn't these products be given out free of charge, using community such as schools or libraries or even churches, or whatever as vehicles for circulation - this would be seen as genuine efforts to find her. Asking people to buy these PR promotion products paid for by donors money in the first place is just greedy because effectively they are profiting twice from the public. They are making donors money grow for them - which begs the question : is that the correct way to go about if their true intention is to find Maddie?
Unquote

Just like Tony Blair: you can take the man out the semi, but never the semi out of the man.
This petty thinking is symptomatic of people who think the world owes them something.

Yes, the public is paying for their PR exercises and giving credibility to the campaign.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by T4two on 22.02.12 10:02

@aiyoyo wrote:
@aquila wrote:At the risk (I always feel the risk of having an opinion re the McCanns) of being CR'd, I want to ask people what usefulness the products of the marketing campaign for the fund actually have in the hope of finding Madeleine?

I've asked a few times on this forum has anyone actually seen a car sticker? and if they do does it make a difference?

Would anyone seeing a green and yellow high quality wrist-band associate it with Madeleine?

Has anyone seen a poster?

Has anyone stood in an airport and seen a luggage tag?

I am really interested to know what impact these products have. Almost five years on and they are still being offered for sale.

You see, it's my opinion that these products are of little use other than to generate funds. A person sitting in a traffic jam may glimpse at a car sticker but is probably too anxious to get out of the traffic for it to make a difference (I'm not going into the subliminal suggestion thing). With all the various charities (yes, charities with fairly transparent accounting unlike a fund) offering pink bows, wrist-bands, badges etc it seems to me that the market is flooded and the whole thing is diluted, especially as we are living in a blingy world nowadays. The difference with the breast-cancer etc charities is they have specific days for support, when it is brought into mind the need to support that or any particular charity that uses this awareness strategy. Posters are a waste of time IMO after an initial burst. Luggage tags, well most people I know don't use them. This is the age of bar-coding, you don't actually need a luggage tag and if you do insist on having one it's unlikely to have a charitable theme and you're in an airport, queuing for a flight and then when you arrive your cases are stored.

So I'd like to know how effective these Madeleine 'products' are and why after almost five years they are still on sale.

I'm adding as usual. The fact the newspapers are now dumbed down by TM, the free promotion of Madeleine's picture has been compromised beyond belief IMO. So, TM what a shot in the foot is that for 'raising awareness'. Nowadays, the only press coverage I see is K and G bleeting about their bad treatment.

These tiny products like waistbands,stickers and what not are not for generating fund. They are just useful PR campaign exercise tools playing pretense they were reaching out to the masses to engage them in their search. If they were determine to find her shouldn't these products be given out free of charge, using community such as schools or libraries or even churches, or whatever as vehicles for circulation - this would be seen as genuine efforts to find her. Asking people to buy these PR promotion products paid for by donors money in the first place is just greedy because effectively they are profiting twice from the public. They are making donors money grow for them - which begs the question : is that the correct way to go about if their true intention is to find Maddie?

If the mccanns had at the very least paid for these small items out of their pocket, and given them out free of charge, that would have gone a long way towards their story credibility. IMHO.

BTW: Have people come across distraught, devastated parents of missing children not spend a penny on their own money in their search? One would have thought a genuine search is when you're willing to use every disposable penny you have got and get your arse out there to search and not just shot off your gob hidden behind prints of press or bewk.


The whole marketing exercise could never have taken off in the way that it did without the backing of a huge fund and some of the best marketing brains in the country in the form of a crisis management company such as for example, Bell Pottinger. From where I'm sitting, I tend to think that it's possible that the fund has been massively overhyped as being the reaction of a concerned public and demonstration of their support. No doubt many small donations were received from well-meaning people, but it's likely that the bulk of the monies was made up by large donations or a large donation from a wealthy source. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the whole exercise of website, wristbands, vigils, balloon launches and the rest of it was and still is, a smokescreen to cover up this fact . Perhaps the great marketing exercise is as phoney as the 'search' itself.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Ross on 22.02.12 10:21

@T4two wrote:Perhaps the great marketing exercise is as phoney as the 'search' itself.
I think this is an important point. The only substantial income would have been from the book, and even there the profits will not have been enormous. The wristbands and so on would make minimal profits unless they were sold by the multi-million. By the time they have been paid for, along with distribution costs and (theoretically) VAT each one would be netting only pennies. We are told that the money raised is for the 'search' and to 'raise awareness'. Raise awareness of what exactly? There are layers upon layers here, but what truly lies at the heart of it? That is the real question.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by aiyoyo on 22.02.12 10:31

I wonder what they did with the excess stocks?

Couldn't they have given them away instead of leaving them laying around pointlessly?

I mean which would you prefer - stocks languishing in a warehouse or your child languishing in a cave?
If the whole purpose of these tiny products is to remind people, then surely ............?

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by rainbow-fairy on 22.02.12 11:35

@Ross wrote:
@T4two wrote:Perhaps the great marketing exercise is as phoney as the 'search' itself.
I think this is an important point. The only substantial income would have been from the book, and even there the profits will not have been enormous. The wristbands and so on would make minimal profits unless they were sold by the multi-million. By the time they have been paid for, along with distribution costs and (theoretically) VAT each one would be netting only pennies. We are told that the money raised is for the 'search' and to 'raise awareness'. Raise awareness of what exactly? There are layers upon layers here, but what truly lies at the heart of it? That is the real question.
'Raise awareness' of the McCanns innocence, of course! Certainly it isn't awareness of the facts of May 3rd, and it obviously isn't awareness of 'Madeleine' herself either - they didn't even release an up-to-date photo of her til 3 weeks later (if it even WAS up to date which seems unlikely). How can anyone look for a child that they don't know?
'Raising awareness' to me seems to be simple PR, like the 'continuing search' - the McCanns 'search' never began, so how could it continue? K+G want us to be 'aware' that 'Madeleine was abducted by persons unknown, there is no evidence she came to harm?!, she is still findable, they are doing all they can to stay out of prison to locate Maddie, and most of all, they are innocent and wronged by the Portuguese... So, in a nutshell 'Awareness of THEIR version' - no one else's.
Personally, I find it abhorrent to 'market' your missing child in the way the McCanns have done. Missing posters are fine, ads on milk cartons just about. But t-shirts, wristbands, luggage tags, stickers... Its just wrong. I honestly can't think of any other missing children that have been marketed in this way? I would not want any money if, heaven forbid, anything should happen to either of my darling boys, it just seems so wrong to me. Almost like blood money?
Am I alone in this? If Maddie truly was alive and could be found, have they thought she may not appreciate her 'image' plastered all over this tacky guff? I'm putting myself in the place of a missing child who appears ten years on (like the McCanns insist, a la Kampusch and Dugard, Maddie could do). What my feelings would be having been left to my fate, suffering lord-knows-what, then discovering my parents were making money from my air-brushed image (was I not good enough for them just the way I was?) then employed dodgy PI's to pretend-search for me? I'd be horrified. Far better they sold their house if they had to, ignored rather than sued anyone who disagreed with them and behaved with some damned dignity?
No, to me, the marketing is an insult too far, after the 'leaving children in an unlocked apartment at night' nonsense.
Poor Madeleine. She deserved so much better. I'd say the McCanns should hang their heads in shame, but that'd be pointless as I truly believe they have none.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Ollie on 22.02.12 11:59

That's it in a nutshell rainbow-fairy, they have no shame. They have shown themselves to be liars and bullies.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tigger on 22.02.12 14:06

@Ross wrote:
@Angelique wrote:I think we have to absorb the idea that Madeleine - the child - was " a product" as far as the parents were concerned after she disappeared. I have come realise that, infact, it could have been pre-planned. And how best does one sell a product if the real thing cannot be bought - by buying reminders of it.

Portia

I do wonder if she was actually in PdL at all but worringly - did GA realise that she may not have been.

ETA It is the video of the bus at the Airport when Madeleine slips that is interesting. If this was your child would you say her name or would you say "Dear"?

I don't think 'the child' is the product, because apart from the obvious sense, the one thing missing has been that child. In the parents narrative, and especially the book, Madeleine is something of a vague almost ethereal image in the background and not the core around which everything else gravitates. The immediate setting up of the company, the planning months in advance for events shows that 'Madeleine' herself, or at least her return, was not the focal point but rather it was the 'missing' that was concentrated on. What we are being sold is the 'Search', a seemingly endless abstract quest that is almost mystical in nature.

You're right, the product is the 'search' which needs to be funded. Madeleine however is the trademark. You are aware that she was registered as a trademark around the 17th May 2007? I can look up the document if you like.
I simply don't understand that such damning actions by 'grieving' parents aren't ever published in the public domain. It would lose them a lot of support.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Guest on 22.02.12 14:11

@tigger wrote:
@Ross wrote:
@Angelique wrote:I think we have to absorb the idea that Madeleine - the child - was " a product" as far as the parents were concerned after she disappeared. I have come realise that, infact, it could have been pre-planned. And how best does one sell a product if the real thing cannot be bought - by buying reminders of it.

Portia

I do wonder if she was actually in PdL at all but worringly - did GA realise that she may not have been.

ETA It is the video of the bus at the Airport when Madeleine slips that is interesting. If this was your child would you say her name or would you say "Dear"?

I don't think 'the child' is the product, because apart from the obvious sense, the one thing missing has been that child. In the parents narrative, and especially the book, Madeleine is something of a vague almost ethereal image in the background and not the core around which everything else gravitates. The immediate setting up of the company, the planning months in advance for events shows that 'Madeleine' herself, or at least her return, was not the focal point but rather it was the 'missing' that was concentrated on. What we are being sold is the 'Search', a seemingly endless abstract quest that is almost mystical in nature.

You're right, the product is the 'search' which needs to be funded. Madeleine however is the trademark. You are aware that she was registered as a trademark around the 17th May 2007? I can look up the document if you like. I simply don't understand that such damning actions by 'grieving' parents aren't ever published in the public domain. It would lose them a lot of support.

TIgger, I would be grateful if you could put that up. The name Madeleine I don't think can be a trademark, otherwise no-one would be able to use that name, I don't think you can trademark a person either. i don\'t know

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by aiyoyo on 22.02.12 14:22

@tigger wrote:
@Ross wrote:
@Angelique wrote:I think we have to absorb the idea that Madeleine - the child - was " a product" as far as the parents were concerned after she disappeared. I have come realise that, infact, it could have been pre-planned. And how best does one sell a product if the real thing cannot be bought - by buying reminders of it.

Portia

I do wonder if she was actually in PdL at all but worringly - did GA realise that she may not have been.

ETA It is the video of the bus at the Airport when Madeleine slips that is interesting. If this was your child would you say her name or would you say "Dear"?

I don't think 'the child' is the product, because apart from the obvious sense, the one thing missing has been that child. In the parents narrative, and especially the book, Madeleine is something of a vague almost ethereal image in the background and not the core around which everything else gravitates. The immediate setting up of the company, the planning months in advance for events shows that 'Madeleine' herself, or at least her return, was not the focal point but rather it was the 'missing' that was concentrated on. What we are being sold is the 'Search', a seemingly endless abstract quest that is almost mystical in nature.

You're right, the product is the 'search' which needs to be funded. Madeleine however is the trademark. You are aware that she was registered as a trademark around the 17th May 2007? I can look up the document if you like.
I simply don't understand that such damning actions by 'grieving' parents aren't ever published in the public domain. It would lose them a lot of support.

Who would ever believe grieving parents would trademark their "missing" child as product to be marketed, especially if they are hoping to find her? By their action, they knew she isnt findable. She's just a trademark for their Fund as you rightly pointed out.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tigger on 22.02.12 14:27

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2456061

Ross, you are right, it is her name linked to the Fund. Filed on the 18th May 2007. Registered April 08.

Are you also aware that 'Leaving no stone unturned' is derived from a SY publication?

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Guest on 22.02.12 17:01

@Angelique wrote:I think we have to absorb the idea that Madeleine - the child - was " a product" as far as the parents were concerned after she disappeared. I have come realise that, infact, it could have been pre-planned. And how best does one sell a product if the real thing cannot be bought - by buying reminders of it.

Portia

I do wonder if she was actually in PdL at all but worringly - did GA realise that she may not have been.

ETA It is the video of the bus at the Airport when Madeleine slips that is interesting. If this was your child would you say her name or would you say "Dear"?

My child?

1. I would have walked up to the airplane hand in hand with her, in order for her not to run into the wrong direction as e g into an engine;
2. If she stumbled, I would run to her and catch her;
3. If she fell and hurt herself regardless, I would pick her up and console her, going up the stairs with her thereafter;
4. If there was a bus from the plane to ?? afterwards, I would not sit her up on a wide bench without any support, her mother holding the twins, 'Meself' hulking in a corner mumbling abuse.

Does this answer the question?

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Guest on 22.02.12 17:06

I'm not sure if it's understood from previous comments that it was David Payne and not Gerry who spoke to Madeleine when she slipped on the stairs. His is the voice saying something to the effect of "Oops-a-daisy, are you all right?".

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Shhh on 04.03.12 17:00

I saw a "look for me" poster thing on the back of a van on the M1 once. Must have been laminated to protect it from weather.

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Marketing the book(s)?

Post by tigger on 06.04.12 17:01

I feel the book can come quite legitimately under the heading of business sense - so what have we learned from the selling campaign? More to the point, the paperback is due out when? 12th May 2012?
The two recent Swedish interviews were allegedly to promote the 'old' book - but why so late? A whole year nearly since it was published.
Kate was reduced to saying: 'Please buy my book'. As basic a selling technique as one get imagine.

To start with the selling campaign with the inevitable interviews has taken them all over the world, the book has had more free publicity than any other I can think of - still isn't doing all that well in the charts.

I understand the 'new' paperback will have either additions or will have been re-edited.It would be interesting to see what has been changed in the 'new' book.
All the foreign editions were in large paperback format in any case.

To what extend are other books about this affair serious competition? Considering how little publicity these are getting from the British press?

There is also no evidence yet that the payment for the book has gone into the Fund. Do any of the changes to the basic purpose of the Fund - as recently published - give any indication that the payments for the book(s) will go into the Fund?


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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tigger on 06.04.12 19:54

I'm just posting this here, an extract re the payment of the advance for the book from:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id405.html - the analyses of the Fund by Enid O'Dowd, FCA.
.
Not only can the payment of the advance not be found, Mrs. O'Dowd estimates that the 'bags of hope' - which I've not seen publicised last year - must have brought in considerable income.
So at that time, only a year ago, there was sufficient interest to charge 50 pound per head for this event and sufficient B list celebrities to donate bags.
Would that happen now?
Quote:
Examination of the accounts for the year ended 31 March 2011 lodged on December 30 2011, a day before the deadline for filing, throws up the question 'what happened to the advance for the book Madeleine which would have been paid in late 2010?'

The huge (unquantified) advance reported in the media in October 2010 does not appear to be in the accounts. If it was, it would either be included in the income figure in the Income and Expenditure Account or shown on the Balance Sheet with an accounting note to explain the payment had been received in the year and would be included in the Income and Expenditure Account for the year ending March 2012, the year in which the book was published. There is no balance sheet entry or note.

Could it be in the Income figure?

Unlikely as the accounts show total income of only £177,534 and no breakdown thereof. In this accounting year (year to March 2011) the official McCann website refers to four official fundraising events, three 'Bags of Hope' events - in the National Space Centre Leicester, in the Crypt in the Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral and in the Crowne Plaza Hotel Glasgow - and an 81 mile sponsored cycle ride undertaken by Gerry, the Etape Caledonia, in Scotland. In addition to these official fundraisers there would presumably have been fundraising income from supporters around the country and profits from the sale of merchandise. Usually 'good causes' will indicate on their website or in their Annual Report or other publications how successful a fundraising event was. It might give the specific sum raised or alternatively indicate the kind of amount raised. The McCanns' website only gives basic information on the events held including where they were held. There is no mention of the amounts raised; the only comment is that the events were 'very positive.'

The Bags of Hope events featured an auction of donated bags, some from some very high profile celebrities. The Loughborough Echo (11.3.2011) said the three events hoped to raise 'tens of thousands of pounds.' Attendees, according to the News of the World (6.3.2011), paid £50 per head to attend. The venues used had substantial capacity. Kylie Minogue, Coleen Rooney, Fearne Cotton, Carol Vorderman, Chris Tarrant and Lorraine Kelly were among the celebrities who donated bags. Given the celebrities involved and the professional team behind the McCanns these events must have raised tens of thousands of pounds as the organisers hoped.

If the advance money is included in the income figure in the Income and Expenditure Account it must have been less than £100,000. Even allowing for media exaggeration about the advance, it is not credible that the Christopher Little Literary Agency who acted for Kate McCann would have accepted such an advance for a book that had such huge sales potential. This long established agency until recently acted for J K Rowling.

The other possible explanation, that there was no advance paid on signing the contract as is usual, is not credible either. No literary agent with a client with a 'hot' book would permit that.

So the likely explanation is that the advance was not paid into the Fund.

Its whereabouts is a mystery to me.

HMRC confirmed to me that there is no special income tax treatment for the income from writing a book, as for example there used to be in Ireland for certain writers and artists. Thus assuming the contract for the book was between Kate McCann and the publishers, then the money she received under that contract would be subject to income tax at current rates. The rates for the UK tax year 2010/2011 in which the initial advance on signing the contract would appear to have been received were : basic rate 20% applying to taxable income from zero to £37,400, higher rate 40% applying to taxable income from £37,401 - £150,000 and additional rate 50% on taxable income over £150,000. These income tax rates would take a sizable chunk of the advance, especially given that Dr Gerry McCann has a salary as a fulltime medical consultant and Kate's book earnings would attract income tax at 40% and 50%. Kate would need to file a tax return for 2010/2011 disclosing her book earnings (and any other earnings she might have had in that year) by 31 October 2011 if filing by hard copy, or by 31 January 2012 if filing online.

In addition to paying income tax on the book earnings Kate would have to pay commission to her literary agent. Her agent's website states that the agency's commission charge is 15%. Of course, a lower figure could have been negotiated as the book was to raise money for the search for Madeleine.

If the book contract was between the publishers and the Fund, then the advance clearly should be in the Fund accounts for the year to March 2011.
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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tuom on 06.04.12 20:05

@delly55 wrote:Just noticed a pic of madeleine on my facebook news feed. It was a shared pic asking for help in finding Maddie and asking for people to pass it on...

Wall Photos
Please read this message and pass it on!!!!!!!!! As you are aware my niece, Madeleine, is still missing and I am asking everyone I know to send this as a chain letter i.e. you send it to everyone you know and ask them to do the same, as the story is only being covered in Britain, Eire and Portugal. We don't believe that she is in Portugal anymore and need to get her picture and the story across Europe as quickly as possible. Suggestions are welcome. Phil McCann
by: Dawn McColl




I saw that on my facebook also , I am in Ireland and I have NEVER seen a car sticker......

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tigger on 06.04.12 20:13

Who was it here recently send away for the high quality wristbands or something and never got an answer?

Chain letters I believe are illegal. If everybody did it there would not be enough paper or ink in the world within days:
20 x 20 = 400
400 x 20 = 8000
8000 x 20 = 160.000
160.000 x 20 = 3.200.000
3.200.00 x 20 = 64,000.000
64 million x 20 = 1.28 billion
x 20 and you've completely run out of the world population .....

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The papal audience

Post by Ribisl on 09.04.12 21:56

I think we are forgetting the second most important marketing tool they've used so far after Maddie herself - the POPE.
We have no data but it is highly likely that this would have helped their fundraising enormously. It's so clever I almost admire whoever was the brain behind organising this particular publicity stunt.

Just as an example: Pope Benedict XVI consecrated Antoni Gaudi's unfinished church, the Sagrada Familia, as a basilica in Barcelona in November 2010. As a result, the tourism to the city is supposed to have increased by 20% around that time.


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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by listener on 10.04.12 0:12

@Ribisl wrote:I think we are forgetting the second most important marketing tool they've used so far after Maddie herself - the POPE.
We have no data but it is highly likely that this would have helped their fundraising enormously. It's so clever I almost admire whoever was the brain behind organising this particular publicity stunt.

Just as an example: Pope Benedict XVI consecrated Antoni Gaudi's unfinished church, the Sagrada Familia, as a basilica in Barcelona in November 2010. As a result, the tourism to the city is supposed to have increased by 20% around that time.


I have seen this pic before a few times and have always thought that he is looking straight into her eyes - and is unsure, or does not like, what he sees.

(But I could be wrong)! Is there a video of the 'blessing'?

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Spaniel on 10.04.12 1:08

@listener wrote:
@Ribisl wrote:I think we are forgetting the second most important marketing tool they've used so far after Maddie herself - the POPE.
We have no data but it is highly likely that this would have helped their fundraising enormously. It's so clever I almost admire whoever was the brain behind organising this particular publicity stunt.

Just as an example: Pope Benedict XVI consecrated Antoni Gaudi's unfinished church, the Sagrada Familia, as a basilica in Barcelona in November 2010. As a result, the tourism to the city is supposed to have increased by 20% around that time.


I have seen this pic before a few times and have always thought that he is looking straight into her eyes - and is unsure, or does not like, what he sees.

(But I could be wrong)! Is there a video of the 'blessing'?

I'd never seen the meeting as pictured, always fronting KM before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtjRfnvB5Lc

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tigger on 10.04.12 8:32

It was a stroke of genius and I believe it was Clarrie who arranged it via the prelate of Northern Ireland?

The whole thing was staged to look as if they had a special meeting with the Pope - they were just two of a couple of dozen people waiting to see the Pope. For all of 30 seconds or so.
Priceless sentence in Kate's diary was 'Rome is preparing itself for our visit'..... You simply can't improve on that.

Still can't see the butterfly that landed on Kate from this angle either.

The Vatican didn't fall for their story though - as a marketing ploy, they used the Pope all the time, never failing to mention his concern etc. But the Vatican website whooshed all their info on Maddie McCann within two days of the audience. Perhaps the local priest had a word.

Clarrie was right next to them and in one clip you can actually see him pushing people away and shaking the Pope's hand. Or trying to.

On that occasion Kate was dressed suitably, but as a recovering Catholic, she tends to forget to dress respectfully in church. No bare arms, no shorts, covered head, Kate. Certainly in Portugal.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by Angelique on 10.04.12 9:33

I may be quite wrong about this, as usual my memory is hopeless, but I thought Kate initially said that royalties would be paid into the Fund. The advance possibly going to her own Bank Account. Wasn't there a "flash" stating this initially on the front of the Book?

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by tigger on 10.04.12 12:49

@Angelique wrote:I may be quite wrong about this, as usual my memory is hopeless, but I thought Kate initially said that royalties would be paid into the Fund. The advance possibly going to her own Bank Account. Wasn't there a "flash" stating this initially on the front of the Book?

Possible that she can quite safely state that, the advance probably hasn't anywhere near covered the royalties yet.... it won't be much - the public really isn't that interested anymore.
She never said that the advance would go into the Fund, did she? According to Enid O'Dowd, it should have been paid the end of 2010. Not to the Fund evidently.

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Re: Very useful marketing tools

Post by anil39200 on 10.04.12 13:38

Years ago I used to be in sales and marketing, dealt with some good people and a lot of horrible ones. It always used to be about features and benefits. You can see features and benefits were what the product could do for you. However, what I have always wondered is why would a doctor concerned with cardiac research need to know stuff about marketing?

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