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British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Kololi on 15.02.10 20:28

hehe

I am curious - where does being jealous of somebody's status fit into what we are chatting about?

I am probably having a brunnette moment as I am not getting the connection at all and yep I would feel the parents on a council estate doing the same thing were equally stupid and neglectful.

Take care

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by aliberte2 on 15.02.10 21:54

@Autumn wrote:As more emerges, as it most certainly will, I think that some of the tapas 7 will be seriously considering their positions in all of this. They are surely able to see that they will all be in it up to their necks, the longer this goes on. Even now, it is not too late for one, if not all of them, to put a stop to this and do the decent thing for everyone's sake. The tapas 7 must realize that this is not going to go away and can only get worse - if they are worried about public perception of them now, they should think how angry people will be if it were to come out later on that they know what has happened but have chosen to stay silent.
They are not stupid, they know the tide is turning - I believe that at least one of the tapas group will have the courage and decency to break ranks and do the right thing for all concerned.

Ah yes, the Tide is Turning, Tick Tock, the Tapas are Breaking, the McCanns are BReaking, Kate is Breaking, Tick Tock. This Refrain has Been Repeated Again and Again for Three Years. The Tapas Have been Publicliy Vilified by the Likes of You as Pedophiles and Pedophile Defenders, and You think They'll Crack Now and Give you the Satisfication?
The Headlines in the British Press Say Amaral said Fuck the McCanns and that His Buddy Had a File He's Been Dumping Maddie sightings in. This is Probably the Highest Esteem the McCanns Have been in in the Public Eye since hte FIrst days of the Abduction.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by aliberte2 on 15.02.10 21:56

@Kololi wrote:Yes we have heard it all before and no we shouldn't forget it.

Remembering that a small child was stolen from her bed, if that is what happened, because she was left alone and defenseless is not a crime nor a sin. Remembering it does not hinder the search for Madeleine.

Remembering it might help other mums and dads tempted to do the same thing to make their minds up that it isn't worth the risk.

In the events of that night whatever they were, it is actually the first and one of only two facts that anybody, regardless of what they believe happened to Madeleine, can be sure of so it is the place to start.

I really do wonder if all those who attempt to push the fact of the children being left alone to one side would still feel that it was just a silly little mistake that good old Kate and Ger have paid a heavy price for if those three children had burnt to death in that apartment whilst alone. What price did Madeleine pay for that teensy weensy little mistake?

Take care

It's NEVER been PUSHED TO THE SIDE that the Children were left ALONE EVER.
People Disagree as to How Much Fault that Leaves the Parents With IF SHE WAS ABDUCTED.
Some Think as Victims of a crime, they Made a Mistake, Left her Vulnerable BUT WHO EXPECTS A CHILD TO BE TAKEN FROM A BED?
Now we ALL do And never Would Leave a Child.
But The McCanns Didn't Have the Benefit of the McCanns.
Everyone who has Ever heard about this Case, Pro-Anti-Whatver, Would Not NOW lEave the child Alone in a Bed.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 22:10

I tell you what has definitely been pushed to one side....the fact that someone walked in that apartment and stole a child!

What is the greater crime here? kidanpping or leaving your child while you dine 60 yards away (while checking regularly)...? neither is correct but i ask again, which is the biggest sin?

What if that abductor is caught and confesses he took Madeleine and it had nothing to do with the parents? should the law let him/her/them walk free?

And to all those poster who accuse the McCanns of horrid things like paedophilia and hiding their child because of an accident. What would you say then? would you retract all your allegations and try to put things right? is there any way you can make it right?

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 22:22

Lets try turning that around. What would you say if it is proven that the McCanns have beein involved in their daughter's disappearance and have been fully aware of what happened to her since May 2007?

Just out of interest, Bunny, have you been hiding under one of Gerry's unturned stones for the last 2 years? Give me just one fact that backs up your ridiculous statement - 'someone walked into that apartment and stole a child'. Get real.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by aliberte2 on 15.02.10 22:34

I'd Say, Good Police work! Finally! Glad it Came to a Conclusion! I would be Quite Content that I've Done Nothing to Harm Innocent People and Nothing to Affect the Flow of An Investigation which I Really Have No Idea About Since I am a Lay Person and Not a Police Officer and Do not have Full Access to Anything.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Kololi on 15.02.10 22:34

Hi Bunny
When looking at the level of wrong doing I would agree that kidnap is by far the greater wrong but that doesn't relieve the parents whether they are doctors or parents from a council estate of their responsibility for their part in such a scenario - the leaving them alone with a door unlocked making the kidnappers job so much easier.

As for an abductor being caught and confessing and, therefore, making it nothing to do with the parents I would disagree as explained above.

Hi Aliberte - In general people are very careful about the storage of valuables such as their passports and cash on holiday because we know that the world is no longer a pleasant place where we are able to leave our front doors unlocked whilst we pop to the shops.

So why would anybody think it safe to leave the front door unlocked with three very young children asleep inside at night in a strange place and with no adult present somewhere in the apartment? We didn't need Madeleine to disappear to teach us the sense in keeping our valuables safe - generally we were already doing it.

As you say though, it is each person's take on the level of blame we would apportion to any parents doing this and I am sure a number of factors personal to each individual will figure in that.

Take care

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 22:36

@Autumn wrote:Lets try turning that around. What would you say if it is proven that the McCanns have beein involved in their daughter's disappearance and have been fully aware of what happened to her since May 2007?

Just out of interest, Bunny, have you been hiding under one of Gerry's unturned stones for the last 2 years? Give me just one fact that backs up your ridiculous statement - 'someone walked into that apartment and stole a child'. Get real.

Actually Autumn, I do believe I asked the question first. I find it interesting that you are unwilling to discuss the scenario previously posted.


facts
1. The window was open (statement Amy Tierney)
2. The fact that Madeleine could not have opened that window (it requires one hand on one side to depress a button while the other hand slides the window across (a child of that age would not only have the height but neither the reach or span from hand to hand to open it)
3. She would not have had the strength to open the shutters
4. Several burglaries in the weeks running up to the abduction all withing 500 yards of 5a.
5. Mrs Fenns burglary (she states that the burglar must have had a key)
6. The availability of keys to maintenance workers and others. (no booking in or out system)
7. Man seen carrying a child away by JT
8. People who had left their children at the dining out service would have to sigh their names etc (this person has not identified himself)
9. No member of staff has ever come forward to say they recognised this man as a holidaymaker.
10. Another man seen carrying a child by Martin smith
11. see 8
12. see 9.
13. Different sightings of men hanging around 5a
14. Charity collectors
15. Man trying to steal buggy without checking if there was a child in it first. (ran off when disturbed)
16. The fact that not one poster has EVER come up with a coherent theory of how the McCanns could have possibly had any hand. Means, motive etc etc
17. The Mccanns have no history of harming their children. In fact many statements in the files consider them to be the perfect parents

Sorry, thats not all. Just the one of the top of my head.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by aliberte2 on 15.02.10 22:39

@Kololi wrote:

So why would anybody think it safe to leave the front door unlocked with three very young children asleep inside at night in a strange place and with no adult present somewhere in the apartment? We didn't need Madeleine to disappear to teach us the sense in keeping our valuables safe - generally we were already doing it.

Take care

Personally, I think it's Because they Had a False Sense of Security on Holiday and Because People Tend to Think that that Stuff Happens During the Day when No one Is There and the Maids, Etc. Are around. There's also a Huge Difference between Lifting a Passport and Taking a Child.

One of the Reasons the Case is so Compelling is that a FOreign National Child Disappeared from an Apartment in Another Country. There is No other Case exactly like it; Yet Before that Date People Did Leave Their Children Sleeping Places when they were 50 Meters away.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by vaguely1 on 15.02.10 22:41

@Autumn wrote:Lets try turning that around. What would you say if it is proven that the McCanns have beein involved in their daughter's disappearance and have been fully aware of what happened to her since May 2007?

Just out of interest, Bunny, have you been hiding under one of Gerry's unturned stones for the last 2 years? Give me just one fact that backs up your ridiculous statement - 'someone walked into that apartment and stole a child'. Get real.


I'd be glad that there was an answer to what happened to Madeleine. I'd hope that this answer would include her being able to have a proper burial, and place that her grandparents could go to help them get over not just the loss of a grandaughter, but also a loss of the children they thought they had.

I'd feel terribly sorry for the twins. Concerned for what their futures would hold in this knowledge of what had happened to their family.



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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 22:42

@Kololi wrote:Hi Bunny
When looking at the level of wrong doing I would agree that kidnap is by far the greater wrong but that doesn't relieve the parents whether they are doctors or parents from a council estate of their responsibility for their part in such a scenario - the leaving them alone with a door unlocked making the kidnappers job so much easier.

As for an abductor being caught and confessing and, therefore, making it nothing to do with the parents I would disagree as explained above.

Hi Aliberte - In general people are very careful about the storage of valuables such as their passports and cash on holiday because we know that the world is no longer a pleasant place where we are able to leave our front doors unlocked whilst we pop to the shops.

So why would anybody think it safe to leave the front door unlocked with three very young children asleep inside at night in a strange place and with no adult present somewhere in the apartment? We didn't need Madeleine to disappear to teach us the sense in keeping our valuables safe - generally we were already doing it.

As you say though, it is each person's take on the level of blame we would apportion to any parents doing this and I am sure a number of factors personal to each individual will figure in that.

Take care

The point I was trying to make..obviously badly :oops: is that the amount of time spent on slating the mccanns in comparison to slating the abductor is not proportionate. Wouldn't you agree?

With regards to leaving the children alone.....I was not trying to say the McCanns did no wrong.....and thats the assumption that too many posters make. see my above comment.

Your response just bears out my point, you thought I was trying to say that should the abductor be caught then the parents did nothing wrong. I never said that. Not being harsh by the way...just trying to make a point.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 22:44

@aliberte2 wrote:
@Kololi wrote:

So why would anybody think it safe to leave the front door unlocked with three very young children asleep inside at night in a strange place and with no adult present somewhere in the apartment? We didn't need Madeleine to disappear to teach us the sense in keeping our valuables safe - generally we were already doing it.

Take care

Personally, I think it's Because they Had a False Sense of Security on Holiday and Because People Tend to Think that that Stuff Happens During the Day when No one Is There and the Maids, Etc. Are around. There's also a Huge Difference between Lifting a Passport and Taking a Child.

One of the Reasons the Case is so Compelling is that a FOreign National Child Disappeared from an Apartment in Another Country. There is No other Case exactly like it; Yet Before that Date People Did Leave Their Children Sleeping Places when they were 50 Meters away.

Unfortunately, I'll bet a pound to a penny that children are still left alone. Many people did it in the past and Im sure that number has been reduced but.....I am sure it still goes on.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Kololi on 15.02.10 22:50

I hear what you are saying Aliberte. The world has changed though so much hasn't it and things we might have done safely years ago we wouldn't dream of doing now. Oh I may be aging you prematurely with that sentence so change we to I :)

This awful affair has probably changed folks thoughts and behaviour again as you say and where they might have seen no harm in leaving their child before Madeleine went missing I think it would be a total twit who would still feel safe enough to do it now.

Take care and nice to see you back too.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 22:53

@vaguely1 wrote:
@Autumn wrote:Lets try turning that around. What would you say if it is proven that the McCanns have beein involved in their daughter's disappearance and have been fully aware of what happened to her since May 2007?

Just out of interest, Bunny, have you been hiding under one of Gerry's unturned stones for the last 2 years? Give me just one fact that backs up your ridiculous statement - 'someone walked into that apartment and stole a child'. Get real.


I'd be glad that there was an answer to what happened to Madeleine. I'd hope that this answer would include her being able to have a proper burial, and place that her grandparents could go to help them get over not just the loss of a grandaughter, but also a loss of the children they thought they had.

I'd feel terribly sorry for the twins. Concerned for what their futures would hold in this knowledge of what had happened to their family.

Vaguely, I am concerned too for what the future holds for Madeleine's family. They need for her to have a proper burial place, somewhere where they can grieve for her - if I could say one thing to Gerry and Kate, it would be to ask them to consider their family, especially the twins and grandparents.




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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 22:55

Sorry Vaguely, I chopped off your end bit flower

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by vaguely1 on 15.02.10 22:57

It's okay, I never felt a thing

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 22:58

ooo be careful Autumn. I saw someone reprimanded on another thread for messing up a quote.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Kololi on 15.02.10 23:01

Aha Bunny - I did not realise that was the point you were trying to make, sorry.

When put like that it is a very fair comment and I am happy to stick my hand up and admit I hadn't even thought of it in that way.

We watched a film this weekend - Benjamin Button - and there was a marvellous few scenes in it showing how it is never just one thing that makes something happen and tbh that is a basis that we tend to use a lot at work so I suppose that I find it very hard to forget that first domino that toppled.

I know I bang my drum about that first domino knocking the next but that doesn't mean that I actually condone the kidnapping of Madeleine if that's what happened to her. If my post came across like that then I need to think a little more of how I phrase my little war dance when I type it in the future.

Take care

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 15.02.10 23:23

Sometimes though we have to move on and put to one side (still remembering though) what caused the first domino to fall. Just look at Ireland....strange comparison I know, but you have to move forward at some point to make any progress. It's that first domino that is the hurdle for many I think. It polarises opinion and it becomes for some (not yourself) the main point and purpose of the argument. They are unable to see beyond that point and that colours all other arguments that can be made after that.

It's basically those posters saying "you will hear what I am saying, what they did was wrong and I can't move any further on as for that one act they guilty of everything that I will accuse them of"

The red mist descends and they are blinded to the facts in the files. They don't want to know.

Kololi, I have to say that you are one of the most reasonable antis/fence sitters I have ever come across on a forum. Feel i have to point out that you are in know way one of the people I am describing in this post. you listen, you see both sides and are not blinded by hatred. It's so refreshing to be honest.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by aliberte2 on 15.02.10 23:35

@Kololi wrote:I hear what you are saying Aliberte. The world has changed though so much hasn't it and things we might have done safely years ago we wouldn't dream of doing now. Oh I may be aging you prematurely with that sentence so change we to I :)

This awful affair has probably changed folks thoughts and behaviour again as you say and where they might have seen no harm in leaving their child before Madeleine went missing I think it would be a total twit who would still feel safe enough to do it now.

Take care and nice to see you back too.

We Feel It's Even true for Younger Parents. I think of Things that were Commonplace in the 80s And people Would Never Dream of That Now. Even Certain Toys, Etc. I Remember this Baby Doll that Talked And It took about 15 D Batteries. It Probably Broke Many a Child's Foot. At some Point from that Perspective it Must stop or Children I Fear will Have No Childhood. I am Not Referring to Leaving Children Alone in the Apartment.

We do Hope it has had Affects on Those who have Followed hte Case and are Aware and Might have been Privy to -- well everyone else is doing it, seems safe enough, what could happen?

Thank you! Good to Be back

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Autumn on 15.02.10 23:59

@bunny wrote:Sometimes though we have to move on and put to one side (still remembering though) what caused the first domino to fall. Just look at Ireland....strange comparison I know, but you have to move forward at some point to make any progress. It's that first domino that is the hurdle for many I think. It polarises opinion and it becomes for some (not yourself) the main point and purpose of the argument. They are unable to see beyond that point and that colours all other arguments that can be made after that.

It's basically those posters saying "you will hear what I am saying, what they did was wrong and I can't move any further on as for that one act they guilty of everything that I will accuse them of"

The red mist descends and they are blinded to the facts in the files. They don't want to know.

Kololi, I have to say that you are one of the most reasonable antis/fence sitters I have ever come across on a forum. Feel i have to point out that you are in know way one of the people I am describing in this post. you listen, you see both sides and are not blinded by hatred. It's so refreshing to be honest.

As you say, Bunny, the facts are in the files and hopefully it won't be long before everyone will read how thoroughly the PJ carried out their investigations.
I have to disagree with your remarks accusing members here of making posts, blinded by hatred - on the contrary, lately everyone has been commenting on how respectful and polite we are to each other. This is one of the few forums where both 'pros' and 'antis' can discuss the case without resorting to nastyness - even though Vaguely is a 'pro', we can disagree without falling out and get on fine catfight . Perhaps you are getting confused with some of the hate-fuelled forums such as Justice4Madeleine - I really do think that you are being a little hasty with your 'red mist' comments and suggest you hang fire for a few days until you a more familiar with the forum.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 16.02.10 0:01

Autumn, where did I say I was referring to this particular forum? and where did I accuse posters of this particular forum?

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by bunny on 16.02.10 0:03

The red mist refers to people being blinkered and not being able to stand back a view of the information available and make a reasoned assesment and judgement on what happened throughout this case.

Blinkered, I think sums it up quite nicely.

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Autumn on 16.02.10 0:10

Think youl find most of us are reasonable and am sure you will be a very happy Bunny here thumbsup

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Re: British Police said McCanns should be Investigated - Daily Mail 11.02.2010

Post by Pascal on 16.02.10 0:21

Since when is Vaguely a 'pro'?

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