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Pat Brown - What about the Window

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Me on 20.02.12 15:36

@aiyoyo wrote:
@finch wrote:Is it this one you're looking for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw


That's it - thanks finch.

Come to think of it, what sort of a mother neglects to enter the room to check on her sleeping children to see that the slam door didn't frighten or wake them up? People are left in no doubt her mockumentary takes the piss.

I'm still thinking about the discussion with WBbrother last night and in particular the notion that the McCann's left their children alone and, according to their various statements, left the patio door unlocked, the front door unlocked (although there was a bolt latch on) and possibly the windows unlocked as well.

Did they lock anything, or is it simply an attempt to cover all bases?

The mind truly boggles.

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Guest on 20.02.12 16:33

More tweets from Pat read from bottom to top, top one is the latest.....



PAT BROWN@ProfilerPatB

If Gerry really returned at 9:30, why is Matthew going right away to check the McCann children? #McCann
22m



PAT BROWN@ProfilerPatB

Although, Jane says Gerry was already in the Tapas when she came back, Russell says Gerry took 25 minutes to return. #McCann



PAT BROWN@ProfilerPatBReply

If Gerry returned in five minutes as Matthew & Jane claimed, why was Kate wondering what was taking him so long? #McCann
42m


PAT BROWN@ProfilerPatB


If Matthew Oldfield told Gerry he listened at the windows & all was quiet, why did Gerry rush right back up to check the kids? #McCann



PAT BROWN@ProfilerPatBReply

Rachel says Gerry did his check at 9:15 & came back 10 minutes later at 9:25.Yet Matthew still goes inside & checks 5 minutes later. #McCann





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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Guest on 20.02.12 17:00

PAT BROWN@ProfilerPatBReply

If you can't see the Tapas 9 stories don't add up, you are ignoring the evidence. #McCann More in my next blog

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by rainbow-fairy on 20.02.12 18:45

candyfloss wrote:PAT BROWN@ProfilerPatBReply

If you can't see the Tapas 9 stories don't add up, you are ignoring the evidence. #McCann More in my next blog
Wow. Where have all our 'friends' gone?!?
Its been over an hour and a half - and not ONE cry of 'Yes, but as we know it'd be more suspicious if their statements matched! Blah, blah, blah...'
Good job I didn't place a bet on thay happening, eh?

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by tigger on 20.02.12 19:16

15/5/07 Rachel Oldfield's statement:

The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The PATIO DOOR that they used to enter the apartment also had its SHUTTER CLOSED. In order to enter they had to RAISE the SHUTTER.
unquote.

I've seen photos of these doors, surely there are no shutters on them? Even if there were, the McCs said Maddie could not have opened the patio doors by herself - she wouldn't have wandered off by herself, surely then these (b....) shutters a) either weren't there at all or b) were definitely up.

I'm looking for enlightenment here!

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by aquila on 20.02.12 19:55

@Me wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@finch wrote:Is it this one you're looking for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw


That's it - thanks finch.

Come to think of it, what sort of a mother neglects to enter the room to check on her sleeping children to see that the slam door didn't frighten or wake them up? People are left in no doubt her mockumentary takes the piss.

I'm still thinking about the discussion with WBbrother last night and in particular the notion that the McCann's left their children alone and, according to their various statements, left the patio door unlocked, the front door unlocked (although there was a bolt latch on) and possibly the windows unlocked as well.

Did they lock anything, or is it simply an attempt to cover all bases?

The mind truly boggles.

Firstly, the McCanns are perfectly capable of locking doors as seen from evidence of this video. In fact, it was their own kitchen door chez Rothley that was locked and had to be opened by K to let G in. It makes me wonder how safe they think their garden is if they have to lock the patio door.

Does anyone have a transcript of this video? The bit I'm looking at is that K went to close the children's door and it just slammed. Now unless it was a hurricane or someone was on the other side of the door, I've never experienced a door slamming when I had my hand on the handle.

As for the bit 'I might have been tempted to leave, it was all quiet' etc (this is why the transcript would be good), I find it really strange that you can openly admit to going in through the patio doors, standing still and not going into the apartment and physically checking on the children until you noticed the door wasn't the way 'we' had left it (who 'we' are is a bloody mystery in itself IMO). It may well have been quiet. One of the kids may have vomited, choked, been uncovered and cold, wet the bed. Come on.

I'm adding. If this was the only check that K did that evening, how did she know how the door 'we' left was odd. Is she suggesting that the open patio doors where several checks had been made on the children means that no-one actually opened the door and physically checked on the kids and then took a slide rule out to leave the door in the same position?

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Ollie on 20.02.12 21:02

@aquila wrote:
@Me wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@finch wrote:Is it this one you're looking for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw


That's it - thanks finch.

Come to think of it, what sort of a mother neglects to enter the room to check on her sleeping children to see that the slam door didn't frighten or wake them up? People are left in no doubt her mockumentary takes the piss.

I'm still thinking about the discussion with WBbrother last night and in particular the notion that the McCann's left their children alone and, according to their various statements, left the patio door unlocked, the front door unlocked (although there was a bolt latch on) and possibly the windows unlocked as well.

Did they lock anything, or is it simply an attempt to cover all bases?

The mind truly boggles.

Firstly, the McCanns are perfectly capable of locking doors as seen from evidence of this video. In fact, it was their own kitchen door chez Rothley that was locked and had to be opened by K to let G in. It makes me wonder how safe they think their garden is if they have to lock the patio door.

Does anyone have a transcript of this video? The bit I'm looking at is that K went to close the children's door and it just slammed. Now unless it was a hurricane or someone was on the other side of the door, I've never experienced a door slamming when I had my hand on the handle.

As for the bit 'I might have been tempted to leave, it was all quiet' etc (this is why the transcript would be good), I find it really strange that you can openly admit to going in through the patio doors, standing still and not going into the apartment and physically checking on the children until you noticed the door wasn't the way 'we' had left it (who 'we' are is a bloody mystery in itself IMO). It may well have been quiet. One of the kids may have vomited, choked, been uncovered and cold, wet the bed. Come on.

I'm adding. If this was the only check that K did that evening, how did she know how the door 'we' left was odd. Is she suggesting that the open patio doors where several checks had been made on the children means that no-one actually opened the door and physically checked on the kids and then took a slide rule out to leave the door in the same position?

As MO was the last to check on the McCann children, why would the door be left the way the McCanns left it, and didn't MO first say that he didn't enter the apartment, then changed it and said he did and looked in the childrens bedroom?

I have my nieces baby of five months two weekends a month, I have a baby monitor but I also go to check her in her cot constantly, checking that she is not too hot or cold, she hasn't vomited and to be sure that everything is ok.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by aquila on 20.02.12 21:14

Ollie, that's precisely my point. It's complete nonsense IMO. I think it was MO's statements that also said things 'sort of' (bless him, he's fond of that phrase - heaven forbid I'm ever told by a doctor I've sort of got cancer) changed on the evening of 3rd May, which always brings me to the question in all of Madeleine's disappearance....WHY?

WHY? I can't see the motive. I can see evidence and statements but I can't see a reason WHY. I think that is what's missing from this whole sorry episode. All the high profile people who have been involved...WHY?....all the non-sensical, contradictory statements...WHY?....all the media thrust and back-tracking...WHY?

All of this for the life/death of one little, vulnerable girl. Shame on the people in high places that cover this up. Shame on anyone who covers this up. Shame on those that make money from it. Shame on the person/persons that hurt this little girl in anyway.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Nina on 20.02.12 21:25

@tigger wrote:15/5/07 Rachel Oldfield's statement:

The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The PATIO DOOR that they used to enter the apartment also had its SHUTTER CLOSED. In order to enter they had to RAISE the SHUTTER.
unquote.

I've seen photos of these doors, surely there are no shutters on them? Even if there were, the McCs said Maddie could not have opened the patio doors by herself - she wouldn't have wandered off by herself, surely then these (b....) shutters a) either weren't there at all or b) were definitely up.

I'm looking for enlightenment here!

Good evening Tigger I cannot provide enlightenment but remind you that the door/Patio window to the parent's bedroom had a shutter that had to be repaired on the monday I believe. I have also seen a photo, I think on Pamalam's site that shows the lounge door/patio window also had a shutter. These shutters would be much bigger, obviously, than the windows and would also open with a pull belt.

I cannot give you any links as am suffering with a giving up the ghost computer. Sorry, maybe someone else could/would help.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Guest on 20.02.12 21:35

Another one.



http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/APARTMENT.htm

And you can see them raised here.....


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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Gillyspot on 20.02.12 22:04

Hi candyfloss sorry a bit off topic but do you know when the photo of Kate was taken? I think this was the same day that Gerry was laughing on that same balcony with her in the background wearing that t shirt.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Guest on 20.02.12 22:10

@Gillyspot wrote:Hi candyfloss sorry a bit off topic but do you know when the photo of Kate was taken? I think this was the same day that Gerry was laughing on that same balcony with her in the background wearing that t shirt.

No sorry Gilly, there is no date under it. I have just noticed that it is actually apartment 4G that they moved into afterwards. There are three of them of KM there, but no dates. About three quarters of the page down on link below

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/APARTMENT.htm

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Gillyspot on 20.02.12 22:18

candyfloss wrote:
@Gillyspot wrote:Hi candyfloss sorry a bit off topic but do you know when the photo of Kate was taken? I think this was the same day that Gerry was laughing on that same balcony with her in the background wearing that t shirt.

No sorry Gilly, there is no date under it. I have just noticed that it is actually apartment 4G that they moved into afterwards. There are three of them of KM there, but no dates. About three quarters of the page down on link below

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/APARTMENT.htm

Thanks candyfloss I will check through images elsewhere. Just noticed Kate is wearing a watch- Didn't think they took them away on holiday.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Ribisl on 20.02.12 22:21

In early May in PDL the sun sets around 20.30. All the contradicting statements made by the group aside, it seems to me more likely that MCs would have left the shutters open in the patio. The patio is facing the interior of the complex which is like an extended garden, the children are sleeping inside, you want to be able to pop in and out to check to make sure they are ok. Leaving them behind in an apartment with all the shutters down would be like shutting them up in an outhouse and that just doesn't feel right at all.

Now you got me speculating, so I will stop right here.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Daisy on 21.02.12 0:12

@Me wrote:
I'm still thinking about the discussion with WBbrother last night and in particular the notion that the McCann's left their children alone and, according to their various statements, left the patio door unlocked, the front door unlocked (although there was a bolt latch on) and possibly the windows unlocked as well.
Did they lock anything, or is it simply an attempt to cover all bases?

The mind truly boggles.

Absolutely shocking isn't it, considering in the day time the apartment was often fully locked down. According to their statements Kate would leave by the patio doors with the children for easy access to ameneties, Gerry would then lock the patio doors & go out the front door double locking it. That makes perfect sense it's what the majority of us would do, nothing wrong with being security conscious. Yet we're supposed to believe that of an evening with 3 young tots inside the apartment was left so inadequately secure? No, that's just too much to ask - unbelievable in the true sense of the word.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by russiandoll on 21.02.12 0:35

@Daisy wrote:
@Me wrote:
I'm still thinking about the discussion with WBbrother last night and in particular the notion that the McCann's left their children alone and, according to their various statements, left the patio door unlocked, the front door unlocked (although there was a bolt latch on) and possibly the windows unlocked as well.
Did they lock anything, or is it simply an attempt to cover all bases?

The mind truly boggles.

Absolutely shocking isn't it, considering in the day time the apartment was often fully locked down. According to their statements Kate would leave by the patio doors with the children for easy access to ameneties, Gerry would then lock the patio doors & go out the front door double locking it. That makes perfect sense it's what the majority of us would do, nothing wrong with being security conscious. Yet we're supposed to believe that of an evening with 3 young tots inside the apartment was left so inadequately secure? No, that's just too much to ask - unbelievable in the true sense of the word.

the above from the horse's mouth is the most powerful argument for not believing that the children were alone evenings in the apartment. and given that, for dismissing the abduction story.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by aiyoyo on 21.02.12 1:52

@aquila wrote:
@Me wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@finch wrote:Is it this one you're looking for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw


That's it - thanks finch.

Come to think of it, what sort of a mother neglects to enter the room to check on her sleeping children to see that the slam door didn't frighten or wake them up? People are left in no doubt her mockumentary takes the piss.

I'm still thinking about the discussion with WBbrother last night and in particular the notion that the McCann's left their children alone and, according to their various statements, left the patio door unlocked, the front door unlocked (although there was a bolt latch on) and possibly the windows unlocked as well.

Did they lock anything, or is it simply an attempt to cover all bases?

The mind truly boggles.

Firstly, the McCanns are perfectly capable of locking doors as seen from evidence of this video. In fact, it was their own kitchen door chez Rothley that was locked and had to be opened by K to let G in. It makes me wonder how safe they think their garden is if they have to lock the patio door.

Does anyone have a transcript of this video? The bit I'm looking at is that K went to close the children's door and it just slammed. Now unless it was a hurricane or someone was on the other side of the door, I've never experienced a door slamming when I had my hand on the handle.

As for the bit 'I might have been tempted to leave, it was all quiet' etc (this is why the transcript would be good), I find it really strange that you can openly admit to going in through the patio doors, standing still and not going into the apartment and physically checking on the children until you noticed the door wasn't the way 'we' had left it (who 'we' are is a bloody mystery in itself IMO). It may well have been quiet. One of the kids may have vomited, choked, been uncovered and cold, wet the bed. Come on.

I'm adding. If this was the only check that K did that evening, how did she know how the door 'we' left was odd. Is she suggesting that the open patio doors where several checks had been made on the children means that no-one actually opened the door and physically checked on the kids and then took a slide rule out to leave the door in the same position?

The more pertinent point is what is the f.....g point of doing the check if you weren't going to enter the room?
How do you expect to know they're OK otherwise? By listening in from the wall? It's one of those WTF moments.

Especially when the door slam, and on re-opening you found the window opened and curtain whoosing because of the opened window not left opened you, why didnt she enter?
How did she know the window wasn't left opened by mistake by one of her checking friends?
If she knows it is very unlikely that, more so you would have thought any normal mum immediate would have a sudden fright, panic,and and be rushing into the room straight away to investigate. But NOT kate.

How did she know immediately that Maddie ONLY was taken just because she couldn't Maddie on her bed from having peeped from the doorway. How did she know Maddie couldn't have wondered off her bed looking for them because the wind (as a result of the opened window) disturbs her? Her immediate presumption is very obvious pre-knowledge of something.
If a layperson can see that, body language expert and crime analyse experts will have field days with her documentary.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by tigger on 21.02.12 8:54

@Ribisl wrote:In early May in PDL the sun sets around 20.30. All the contradicting statements made by the group aside, it seems to me more likely that MCs would have left the shutters open in the patio. The patio is facing the interior of the complex which is like an extended garden, the children are sleeping inside, you want to be able to pop in and out to check to make sure they are ok. Leaving them behind in an apartment with all the shutters down would be like shutting them up in an outhouse and that just doesn't feel right at all.

Now you got me speculating, so I will stop right here.

Thanks Candyfloss. Since all information on shutters were linked to the window, I'd assumed that only the windows were shuttered. But I don't believe the shutters on the patio doors were down. That would be an absolute firetrap for three children. The neglect was rubbish anyway, I would say 5a was empty that evening. The twins weren't there - brought in later from 'their own apartment' as Gerry so helpfully said when they were taken back there.
So was RO instructed in saying the shutters were down on the patio windows and this statement became inconvenient at a later date?
So the window was also chosen because it wasn't visible from the bar.
My head hurts! I'm going to have to go back to all the doors an windows and make a timeline.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by PeterMac on 21.02.12 9:04

The shutters on the patio doors CANNOT have been down - IF anyone used that same patio door to go inside - because they can only be raised by pulling the strap which is on the inside. Why he said this is another mystery.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by aquila on 21.02.12 9:43

@PeterMac wrote:The shutters on the patio doors CANNOT have been down - IF anyone used that same patio door to go inside - because they can only be raised by pulling the strap which is on the inside. Why he said this is another mystery.

Thanks PeterMac. My head is hurting today from the shutter subject.

There are patio doors that were left open (Kate's admission). They could not have had the shutters down because the shutters are on the outside of the patio doors and can only be opened from the inside.

Editing to add. The patio doors were used to gain entry to 'check on the children'. Therefore the shutters were up.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by C.Edwards on 21.02.12 9:44

@PeterMac wrote:The shutters on the patio doors CANNOT have been down - IF anyone used that same patio door to go inside - because they can only be raised by pulling the strap which is on the inside. Why he said this is another mystery.

Hi PeterMac. Was this tested, do you know? I ask as I used to think that the bedroom window shutters could only be opened from the inside with the strap and we know what happened recently...

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Guest on 21.02.12 9:52

From Joana Morais......

Joana Morais@xklamationReply


Criminal Profiler Pat Brown: exclusive interview with Algarve123 newspaper to be published on February 24 http://is.gd/MbRVQu #mccann



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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by aquila on 21.02.12 10:08

@C.Edwards wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:The shutters on the patio doors CANNOT have been down - IF anyone used that same patio door to go inside - because they can only be raised by pulling the strap which is on the inside. Why he said this is another mystery.

Hi PeterMac. Was this tested, do you know? I ask as I used to think that the bedroom window shutters could only be opened from the inside with the strap and we know what happened recently...

C. Edwards, have you been to a Med country on holiday? I suspect you possibly have. You would therefore know that these type of shutters are common. May I suggest you have a good read through the shutter debate on this forum. You'll find a few posts from people (including myself) who live/have lived in Med countries and know about the shutters.

And whilst we don't agree on the ability to raise shutters from the outside, there is almost unanimous agreement that you can't open the door from the outside if the shutters are down.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by rainbow-fairy on 21.02.12 11:43

Its a nonsense to believe the patio shutters could possibly have been down were they telling the truth about entering via the patio doors.

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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