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Pat Brown - What about the Window

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Me on 19.02.12 16:27

@wgbrother wrote:
@Me wrote:
@wgbrother wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:Any abductor would first and foremost check if the coast was clear. It wasn't, and the idea of lifting noisy shutters and peeping in is ridiculous, the father was standing outside of the apartment talking to Jez and Jane Tanner was walking towards the apartments.

How do you know that the shutters were lifted when they Jez and Gerry were outside? There is much speculation that it was earlier and the potential abductor was inside the building by then.

And what makes you think that the noise of shutters in action right around the other side of that large building would firstly be heard by someone and or secondly raise the remotest suspicion as it was such a normal noise on a building with shutters all over it?

So why didn't Jane Tanner and one of the Tapas guys notice the open shutter when they walked past?


Probably because it was very dark as even Pat Brown now recognises. And actually they didn't go past that window directly to get to their apartments. It is off to the side a little as they enter the carpark and walk in a straight line ahead to the doors of their apartments.

Probably?? So you think even in the dark and walking through that car park (via that car park entrance that i have very kindly provided an image of for you) they wouldn't have noticed a black void against that sea of white?

Ok then, no straw clutching there then .

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Gillyspot on 19.02.12 16:29

@wgbrother wrote:
@Gillyspot wrote:If Pat has shown nothing else she she has shown the complete pointlessness of the shutters as a point of entry. Which makes a mockery of Kate & Gerry's "team" saying they were "jemmied" "damaged" "broken" etc. - Open the shutters - the window isn't open by magic too.

So now we have to believe that the McCann couple left the childrens window open (not just unlocked - windows are not that easy to open even i unlocked as you well know) as well as the patio doors?

Please explain this if you can. No pieces of wood required this time though.

Did you not know that in the files Gerry is very clear that he didn't recall whether the window was open or not. I think people who are interested in the case should read the files very carefully and not rely on half truths and myths.

Gerry's statements are very near the beginning of the files. He mentions it twice if I remember correctly.

Oops WRONG

4.5.07
No mention of shutters, windows.

10.5.07

"Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge."

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Ribisl on 19.02.12 16:38

candyfloss wrote:
@wgbrother wrote:
@Ribisl wrote:Some shutters have a built-in security mechanism so they can't be forced open more than an inch or two from the outside. In holiday apartments, especially in a serviced complex, it's likely that they wouldn't bother with this kind of extra. I am not quite sure however what exactly they are hoping to prove by forcing open the shutter this way, five years after the event.

Your use of the word force is interesting. There was no forcing from PM in that video. Just simple lifting.

As for what it proves. Well not a lot but it does suggest that all those claims that the shutters couldn't be lifted from the outside might actually be completely wrong. Its never a bad idea to dispel forum myths is it?


But in that video the blinds are already up a couple of inches. He doesn't lift them from the very bottom, when they are tight on the windowsill. You would need something strong to lever them up to the couple of inches level, you couldn't just push them up as you couldn't get your fingers under. Using something to open them the first inch or two would surely leave a mark.

By forcing I didn't mean applying a great force. These blinds are not difficult to open from the outside even when fully closed because you can normally squeeze your fingers under them quite easily. And if they are made of aluminium they certainly don't weigh very much. That's why insurance companies insist on us installing ones with locking mechanism.

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and this from arguido statement

Post by russiandoll on 19.02.12 16:41


Volume IV, pages 2569 - 2578
Arguido questioning of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 7th of September 2007, at 11 a.m.
Location: CID Portimão

Regarding the windows, he says they were normally closed, he does not know if they were locked, with the shutters also closed.
Regarding Madeleine’s window he says that he made sure the shutters worked so as to darken the room for the children.


can fins nothing about lichen in the police forensics so far though, only D Barclay's statement.

wgbrother, using your logic about Pat Browns companion being Peter Mac, we could speculate on whose brother you are I guess.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by wgbrother on 19.02.12 16:46

@russiandoll wrote:
Volume IV, pages 2569 - 2578
Arguido questioning of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 7th of September 2007, at 11 a.m.
Location: CID Portimão

Regarding the windows, he says they were normally closed, he does not know if they were locked, with the shutters also closed.
Regarding Madeleine’s window he says that he made sure the shutters worked so as to darken the room for the children.


can fins nothing about lichen in the police forensics so far though, only D Barclay's statement.

wgbrother, using your logic about Pat Browns companion being Peter Mac, we could speculate on whose brother you are I guess.

Of course you could. But I bet you would be wrong.
I gave sound reasons for my speculation about Peter Mac.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by wgbrother on 19.02.12 16:47

@Gillyspot wrote:
@wgbrother wrote:
@Gillyspot wrote:If Pat has shown nothing else she she has shown the complete pointlessness of the shutters as a point of entry. Which makes a mockery of Kate & Gerry's "team" saying they were "jemmied" "damaged" "broken" etc. - Open the shutters - the window isn't open by magic too.

So now we have to believe that the McCann couple left the childrens window open (not just unlocked - windows are not that easy to open even i unlocked as you well know) as well as the patio doors?

Please explain this if you can. No pieces of wood required this time though.

Did you not know that in the files Gerry is very clear that he didn't recall whether the window was open or not. I think people who are interested in the case should read the files very carefully and not rely on half truths and myths.

Gerry's statements are very near the beginning of the files. He mentions it twice if I remember correctly.

Oops WRONG

4.5.07
No mention of shutters, windows.

10.5.07

"Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge."

Not wrong at all. Please have another go and don't forget that Gerry made a number of statements.

An apology would be appreciated.

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p.s. may 10 statment G McCann

Post by russiandoll on 19.02.12 16:48

about May 3rd.
He is certain that, before leaving home, the children's bedroom was totally dark, with the window closed, but he does not know it was locked, the shutters closed but with some slats open, and the curtains also drawn closed.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Guest on 19.02.12 16:50

@wgbrother wrote:
@Gillyspot wrote:
@wgbrother wrote:
@Gillyspot wrote:If Pat has shown nothing else she she has shown the complete pointlessness of the shutters as a point of entry. Which makes a mockery of Kate & Gerry's "team" saying they were "jemmied" "damaged" "broken" etc. - Open the shutters - the window isn't open by magic too.

So now we have to believe that the McCann couple left the childrens window open (not just unlocked - windows are not that easy to open even i unlocked as you well know) as well as the patio doors?

Please explain this if you can. No pieces of wood required this time though.

Did you not know that in the files Gerry is very clear that he didn't recall whether the window was open or not. I think people who are interested in the case should read the files very carefully and not rely on half truths and myths.

Gerry's statements are very near the beginning of the files. He mentions it twice if I remember correctly.

Oops WRONG

4.5.07
No mention of shutters, windows.

10.5.07

"Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge."

Not wrong at all. Please have another go and don't forget that Gerry made a number of statements.

An apology would be appreciated.

Shouldn't they all be the same account?

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 19.02.12 16:51

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichen

At the bottom of this article is a picture of lichen growing on a speck of concrete dust, just for info on how small some lichens are and to prove you don't have to see big hairy chunks of the stuff for it to be there!!

wgbrother might be xaviers siamese twin winkwink or some other previously experienced incarnation! Certainly suspicious.

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wg

Post by russiandoll on 19.02.12 16:54


why dont you post quotes here then, please... as we have taken the time to look and copy some for you to read. I am not arguing with you, I am asking for evidence to back up your firm opinion that Gerry McCann was unsure about the window in the children's room being open or not.. I have read consistent uncertainty about them being locked. Is this what you mean if so why not say so? Open means not closed, it is not the same as unlocked.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Guest on 19.02.12 16:58

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
wgbrother might be xaviers siamese twin or some other previously experienced incarnation! Certainly suspicious.

I don't think there's any "might" about it! Ah well, at least we're keeping these people off the streets.

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MOldfied

Post by russiandoll on 19.02.12 16:59


seems to confirm closed windows, but if shutters down, how would he know? did he mean the shutters were closed? he is talking about windows it seems as he uses the word 3 times..but he could not see them from the exterior could he? he has not said he went inside at any stage or am I wrong here?

21.05 MO - That around 21.05, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments. Notably to the area near the windows of all the children's bedrooms. That he did not hear any noise. That he considered that all the children were sleeping. That all the children's bedroom windows were closed, notably the windows that gave access to the fourth apartment, that occupied by Madeleine.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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p.s.

Post by russiandoll on 19.02.12 17:03

sorry forgot to comment in my last post.....

why say notably, there was nothing for him to note about that apartment window as opposed to any others at 9 pm was there......nothing had happened at that stage, business as usual, another tapas evening, all kids quiet,....so why did he take special notice of Maddies window ?

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by worriedmum on 19.02.12 17:05

I think Pat Brown is presenting evidence as she finds it, even if this means adjusting theories she had BEFORE she went to PDL. To me this is evidence of her professionalism and desire to get to the truth. I wouldn't describe this as 'hysterical or clutching at straws' myself.
BTW I'm trying to get to grips with the idea of an abductor who carries ready cut pieces of wood but then carries a little girl away, uncovered , in full view of Jane Tanner.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by wgbrother on 19.02.12 17:12

candyfloss wrote:
@wgbrother wrote:
@Gillyspot wrote:
@wgbrother wrote:
@Gillyspot wrote:If Pat has shown nothing else she she has shown the complete pointlessness of the shutters as a point of entry. Which makes a mockery of Kate & Gerry's "team" saying they were "jemmied" "damaged" "broken" etc. - Open the shutters - the window isn't open by magic too.

So now we have to believe that the McCann couple left the childrens window open (not just unlocked - windows are not that easy to open even i unlocked as you well know) as well as the patio doors?

Please explain this if you can. No pieces of wood required this time though.

Did you not know that in the files Gerry is very clear that he didn't recall whether the window was open or not. I think people who are interested in the case should read the files very carefully and not rely on half truths and myths.

Gerry's statements are very near the beginning of the files. He mentions it twice if I remember correctly.

Oops WRONG

4.5.07
No mention of shutters, windows.

10.5.07

"Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge."

Not wrong at all. Please have another go and don't forget that Gerry made a number of statements.

An apology would be appreciated.

Shouldn't they all be the same account?
Yes and they are. Just some have more detail. Quite normal, depending on which officer questioned him at the time, what precise question was asked and how long was given for the reply.
You would see that if you read them, especially if you read them all together, one after the other.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by wgbrother on 19.02.12 17:15

candyfloss wrote:Me speculate wgbrother, you are the one speculating about the pieces of wood, the looking in through a window, that you couldn't see through cos the curtains were closed Prof. David Barclay was clear, he said ARE not could be or might be and that was what the forensics lady was looking for. How would he know she was looking for this specifically?

Actually he said all the windowsills in the AREA are covered. How would he know that? Has he looked at them ALL? After all thats what he said. Not the selective bit that you are quoting.
And once again you are speculating that the forensics lady was looking for lichen. Is there anything in the files to back up your speculation?
And you are of course speculating that there wasnt just a tiny gap between the closed curtains that could be seen through. Are all closed curtains so tightly shut in your experience that no small crack exists between them?

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 19.02.12 17:16

@worriedmum wrote:I think Pat Brown is presenting evidence as she finds it, even if this means adjusting theories she had BEFORE she went to PDL. To me this is evidence of her professionalism and desire to get to the truth. I wouldn't describe this as 'hysterical or clutching at straws' myself.
BTW I'm trying to get to grips with the idea of an abductor who carries ready cut pieces of wood but then carries a little girl away, uncovered , in full view of Jane Tanner.

big grin The same abductor who hid behind a door, or in the bathroom (Gerry didn't see him in there though when he popped in to relieve himself) had a duplicate key, popped into the Tapas to check the bookings page where he saw a note advertising the neglect of small children, who had long hair, short hair, spots, moustache, goofy teeth, no facial features, looked like Murat or possibly a woman and who Smith thought was Gerry! These shape-shifters have no problems concealing a length of timber about their person whilst skulking about it dimly lit/well lit public places. With or without shrubbery for cover.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Gillyspot on 19.02.12 17:22

A point of clarity for wgbrother

Gerry McCann full statement regarding window/shutters on 4.5.07

"The witness and his wife, between this time and 20.30 stayed in the apartment relaxing and drinking a glass of wine. After 20.30, the witness and his wife, after looking at the children, went to the Tapas Bar, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner. As usual, every half hour and as the restaurant was near, the witness or his wife, would check whether the children were all right. In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine."

Gerry McCann Full statement regarding the windows/shutters on 10.5.07

" He followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered [was entering] the lounge, he noted that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought strange, having then put together the thought of MADELEINE having got up to go to sleep in his bedroom so as to avoid the noise produced [created] by her siblings. In this way he entered the children's bedroom and established visual contact with each of them, checking and is certain of this, that the three were sleeping deeply. He left the children's bedroom returning to place the door how he had already previously described, [then] going to the bathroom. Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Can't seen any clarity of windows or shutters being opened or closed here.


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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by rainbow-fairy on 19.02.12 17:30

@wgbrother wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Me speculate wgbrother, you are the one speculating about the pieces of wood, the looking in through a window, that you couldn't see through cos the curtains were closed Prof. David Barclay was clear, he said ARE not could be or might be and that was what the forensics lady was looking for. How would he know she was looking for this specifically?

Actually he said all the windowsills in the AREA are covered. How would he know that? Has he looked at them ALL? After all thats what he said. Not the selective bit that you are quoting.
And once again you are speculating that the forensics lady was looking for lichen. Is there anything in the files to back up your speculation?
And you are of course speculating that there wasnt just a tiny gap between the closed curtains that could be seen through. Are all closed curtains so tightly shut in your experience that no small crack exists between them?
We ALL of us are speculating in one way or another. Just some more sensibly than others Wink
wgbrother, when asked you stated Jane Tanner 'probably' wouldn't have noticed the shutter partly up, as it was 'too dark' - yet, the only piece of 'evidence' that backs up abduction comes from Jane (remember it was 'too dark' to see a shutter) and YET - she was able to describe a frill on the bottom of the child's pyjama's, several yards away. Get real!
Speculating on entry points is pointless. Its exit point we need to worry about.
I firmly believe the person who took Madeleine had a key, was more acquainted with PdL than we've been led to believe, and had no need to be skulking around looking through curtains...

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Me on 19.02.12 17:43

So WGbrother talks of open mindedness yet at the same time is prepared to accept and believe, apparently unquestioningly, the following on the basis of a 15 second video of shutters opening from the outside:

That the Mccann’s would leave the patio door unlocked, the front door unlocked and the window unlocked. (That raises the question: did they lock anything at all or is it simply covering all bases).

Who would leave children alone in an apartment with the front door ( I know about the bolt), the patio doors and the bedroom windows unlocked?

That an abductor would attempt to break in through a window on the same side as the and in full view of the entrance to this and every other apartment in the block - particuallry when the Team had helpfully, left the patio door unlocked round the back.

That said abductor would choose or be lucky enough to try the very window that was unlocked and by happy coincidence led straight into the children’s bedroom.

That said abductor could negotiate his way in without leaving any forensic evidence on the window, shutter or the bed, floor or curtains on the inside of the window and whilst the father was on the road just round the corner not 30 metres away.

That this intruder could then, whilst carrying a child, exit the same way, again without leaving a trace and whilst carrying a child through the window at the same time.

That said intruder could do all this unnoticed and get out in the 5 minutes or so between Gerry leaving and Jane walking past.

That Tanner couldn’t accurately tell which side of the road Gerry and Jez were talking on (despite claiming she walked past them) but could, from some distance and under low light conditions, make out the colour and style of pyjamas worn by the child being carried by the “abductor”.

That said intruder would choose to walk across the very road that two people were talking on.

That the GNR sniffer dogs must also be wrong when they followed the scent the opposite way to Tanner’s alleged sighting.

That Tanner and another T9 member walked on the road and across the car park in full view of this open shuttered window and didn't see it. Despite them both knowing the children were alone in the apartment and whilst doing their "checking". Some checking if when walking past, you don't look at or notice the property of your travelling companions who like you have left their children home alone.

That the wildly publicised accounts of the shutters being “jemmied” were incorrect and in fact they had been lifted (which rather begs the question if the shutters could simply be lifted why did the Team not say that as it would have been far more credible than saying they were jemmied when there was no evidence to support that claim).

That the Tapas statements claiming a variety of people including Jerry and Diane played with the shutters (and in Gerry's cases closed the window) without leaving any fingerprints on it.


Have i missed anything out?

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by aiyoyo on 19.02.12 17:44

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:I think Pat Brown is presenting evidence as she finds it, even if this means adjusting theories she had BEFORE she went to PDL. To me this is evidence of her professionalism and desire to get to the truth. I wouldn't describe this as 'hysterical or clutching at straws' myself.
BTW I'm trying to get to grips with the idea of an abductor who carries ready cut pieces of wood but then carries a little girl away, uncovered , in full view of Jane Tanner.

big grin The same abductor who hid behind a door, or in the bathroom (Gerry didn't see him in there though when he popped in to relieve himself) had a duplicate key, popped into the Tapas to check the bookings page where he saw a note advertising the neglect of small children, who had long hair, short hair, spots, moustache, goofy teeth, no facial features, looked like Murat or possibly a woman and who Smith thought was Gerry! These shape-shifters have no problems concealing a length of timber about their person whilst skulking about it dimly lit/well lit public places. With or without shrubbery for cover.

if he'd entered by the window and hiding behind the door when Gerry came into check on the children, why didn't Gerry notice the opened window or shutter? Don't forget it was a windy night.


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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 19.02.12 17:48

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:I think Pat Brown is presenting evidence as she finds it, even if this means adjusting theories she had BEFORE she went to PDL. To me this is evidence of her professionalism and desire to get to the truth. I wouldn't describe this as 'hysterical or clutching at straws' myself.
BTW I'm trying to get to grips with the idea of an abductor who carries ready cut pieces of wood but then carries a little girl away, uncovered , in full view of Jane Tanner.

big grin The same abductor who hid behind a door, or in the bathroom (Gerry didn't see him in there though when he popped in to relieve himself) had a duplicate key, popped into the Tapas to check the bookings page where he saw a note advertising the neglect of small children, who had long hair, short hair, spots, moustache, goofy teeth, no facial features, looked like Murat or possibly a woman and who Smith thought was Gerry! These shape-shifters have no problems concealing a length of timber about their person whilst skulking about it dimly lit/well lit public places. With or without shrubbery for cover.

if he'd entered by the window and hiding behind the door when Gerry came into check on the children, why didn't Gerry notice the opened window or shutter? Don't forget it was a windy night.


Exactly. It's all rubbish IMO. Whichever way you look at it, the window/hiding/5 minute opportunity, does not and cannot add up to anything remotely plausible. Five years of thousands of people wrangling it over and over cannot make it work, so likely it's all hogwash.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by wgbrother on 19.02.12 18:11

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:I think Pat Brown is presenting evidence as she finds it, even if this means adjusting theories she had BEFORE she went to PDL. To me this is evidence of her professionalism and desire to get to the truth. I wouldn't describe this as 'hysterical or clutching at straws' myself.
BTW I'm trying to get to grips with the idea of an abductor who carries ready cut pieces of wood but then carries a little girl away, uncovered , in full view of Jane Tanner.

The same abductor who hid behind a door, or in the bathroom (Gerry didn't see him in there though when he popped in to relieve himself) had a duplicate key, popped into the Tapas to check the bookings page where he saw a note advertising the neglect of small children, who had long hair, short hair, spots, moustache, goofy teeth, no facial features, looked like Murat or possibly a woman and who Smith thought was Gerry! These shape-shifters have no problems concealing a length of timber about their person whilst skulking about it dimly lit/well lit public places. With or without shrubbery for cover.

if he'd entered by the window and hiding behind the door when Gerry came into check on the children, why didn't Gerry notice the opened window or shutter? Don't forget it was a windy night.

Not sure that it was a windy night as such. Where does it say that?
And could he not simply have pulled the window to or slid it back across?
You are simply speculating that the window was left open.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by wgbrother on 19.02.12 18:15

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:I think Pat Brown is presenting evidence as she finds it, even if this means adjusting theories she had BEFORE she went to PDL. To me this is evidence of her professionalism and desire to get to the truth. I wouldn't describe this as 'hysterical or clutching at straws' myself.
BTW I'm trying to get to grips with the idea of an abductor who carries ready cut pieces of wood but then carries a little girl away, uncovered , in full view of Jane Tanner.

The same abductor who hid behind a door, or in the bathroom (Gerry didn't see him in there though when he popped in to relieve himself) had a duplicate key, popped into the Tapas to check the bookings page where he saw a note advertising the neglect of small children, who had long hair, short hair, spots, moustache, goofy teeth, no facial features, looked like Murat or possibly a woman and who Smith thought was Gerry! These shape-shifters have no problems concealing a length of timber about their person whilst skulking about it dimly lit/well lit public places. With or without shrubbery for cover.

if he'd entered by the window and hiding behind the door when Gerry came into check on the children, why didn't Gerry notice the opened window or shutter? Don't forget it was a windy night.


Exactly. It's all rubbish IMO. Whichever way you look at it, the window/hiding/5 minute opportunity, does not and cannot add up to anything remotely plausible. Five years of thousands of people wrangling it over and over cannot make it work, so likely it's all hogwash.

There is no doubt that it has now been shown that it is feasible to open the shutters, that Gerry himself said that the window might not have been locked and therefore that somebody could have entered or exited via that route.

Personally I very much doubt that any such thing happened. I think an abductor would either have entered via the patio door or via the almost totally hidden front door using a key.

Its also possible that there was no abductor.

But I think all actual evidence should be looked at and where things are shown to be forum myths like the long held belief that the shutters could not be opened from the outside they should be put to rest.

Now where is the evidence for this lichen other than from an expert who no-one has shown yet ever went to PDL but who says ALL the window sills in the AREA are covered in the stuff. Just very odd that the PJ forgot to mention it and that the clear photos don't show any.

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Re: Pat Brown - What about the Window

Post by Me on 19.02.12 18:30

@wgbrother wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:I think Pat Brown is presenting evidence as she finds it, even if this means adjusting theories she had BEFORE she went to PDL. To me this is evidence of her professionalism and desire to get to the truth. I wouldn't describe this as 'hysterical or clutching at straws' myself.
BTW I'm trying to get to grips with the idea of an abductor who carries ready cut pieces of wood but then carries a little girl away, uncovered , in full view of Jane Tanner.

The same abductor who hid behind a door, or in the bathroom (Gerry didn't see him in there though when he popped in to relieve himself) had a duplicate key, popped into the Tapas to check the bookings page where he saw a note advertising the neglect of small children, who had long hair, short hair, spots, moustache, goofy teeth, no facial features, looked like Murat or possibly a woman and who Smith thought was Gerry! These shape-shifters have no problems concealing a length of timber about their person whilst skulking about it dimly lit/well lit public places. With or without shrubbery for cover.

if he'd entered by the window and hiding behind the door when Gerry came into check on the children, why didn't Gerry notice the opened window or shutter? Don't forget it was a windy night.


Exactly. It's all rubbish IMO. Whichever way you look at it, the window/hiding/5 minute opportunity, does not and cannot add up to anything remotely plausible. Five years of thousands of people wrangling it over and over cannot make it work, so likely it's all hogwash.

There is no doubt that it has now been shown that it is feasible to open the shutters, that Gerry himself said that the window might not have been locked and therefore that somebody could have entered or exited via that route.

Personally I very much doubt that any such thing happened. I think an abductor would either have entered via the patio door or via the almost totally hidden front door using a key.

Its also possible that there was no abductor.

But I think all actual evidence should be looked at and where things are shown to be forum myths like the long held belief that the shutters could not be opened from the outside they should be put to rest.

Now where is the evidence for this lichen other than from an expert who no-one has shown yet ever went to PDL but who says ALL the window sills in the AREA are covered in the stuff. Just very odd that the PJ forgot to mention it and that the clear photos don't show any.

Absolutely agree but as i said to you in earlier post let's look at all the evidence and then judge accordingly as to what Pat findings are. You disagreed then but seem to agree now.

And it bolis down this. It is irrelevant whether these shutters could or could not be opened from the outside becuase when you look at all the other evidence / information we have access to the abduction theory still has no credibility or evidenciary support.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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