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Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by tigger on 15.02.12 10:15

candyfloss wrote:I think we need to wait and see if we get any better photographs in daylight. Anyone on twitter could ask Pat to do this.

Tigger, it is not helpful to regurgitate old arguments, can we please stick to the topic of the thread.

@ david_uk any personal issues should be taken to pm.

I quoted a comment from Stella on another topic of which I quoted the reference as is good practice. Namely that adding to the confusion wouldn't help the forum. Which imo is what was happening here.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 10:19

@tigger wrote:I quoted a comment from Stella on another topic of which I quoted the reference as is good practice. Namely that adding to the confusion wouldn't help the forum. Which imo is what was happening here.

No one is adding to confusion tigger.

The trees and shrubs that were there in 2007, ane not there any more and it is as simple as that. Digging up quotes from old posts to inflame a situation, is precisely what you have been asked not to do.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Invinoveritas on 15.02.12 11:00

Stella wrote:
@Me wrote:Irrespective of trees or no trees at opposite apartment level, the pertinent issue is how, given she'd just seen an "abductor" walking across the road did Jane Tanner (and others in the group after her) walk round by the car park and not notice the shutter up in that gap between the trees?

I would suggest given the nature of the ligthing it would be impossible not to be drawn to look at an open shutter against a backdrop of closed shutters.

I'm trying to find a picture of how those bushes looked that used to run up that side wall, but I cannot access Pamalam's site at the moment. All of the T9 complained how dark and creepy they thought that route was and it's a very sad day when beautiful trees are cut down to satisfy those beliefs. They could have just thinned them out and kept the beauty of the greenery.

As with the last photo I posted up, you can see people above the wall and below the trees, so certainly a gap big enough to see open shutters from I would have thought. But there was still a heavy shrub of some kind to elevate the wall that runs up to the top of that road, that's the pictures I'm trying to find. The question is where did that shrub end and was it continuous or had gaps in it?

Stella, there is a picture on Google Earth, click on the picture OCEAN CLUB it shows the trees as they were in 2007, also the imagery that is shown is from 22/06/2007, using the time slider there appears the imagery from 16/04/2011 where one can see that the trees are gone. hope that helps

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Daisy on 15.02.12 11:03

Stella wrote:

The people in green I believe were the GNR dog handlers, the rest are journalists all huddled around block 5 carpark. Why would they be hanging around another blocks car park?

Daisy, the night shot you refer to with a tree in, the base of the tree is sitting in the carpark Opposite.


I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean, I can't recall referring to a night shot?

To answer your question, perhaps the photograph is from the next apartment block the McCann's moved into after Madeleine's disappearance?

I find it hard to ignore the information (police statements) of the former occupants of 5A. Saleigh Gordon moved out of 5A on the 28th April - the same day the McCann's moved in. She states the bedroom window was overlooked by other apartments. Why would she lie? What she had to say was hardly flattering towards the McCann's. In fact her words were pretty damning.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 11:08

Also this photo from MCF shows trees along the line of the whole block apart from gaps for cars to get into the car park. It also shows the apartments opposite from which Pat took the photo on the third floor.........



Also this one with the red arrow pointing to back entrance to 5a, and the trees at the front of the apartment.........


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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Nina on 15.02.12 11:18


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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by ShuBob on 15.02.12 12:05

Pat B has now updated her initial blog entry which led to TREEGATE. It would appear Stella deserves an apology from certain posters.

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-picture.html

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 12:08

@ShuBob wrote:Pat B has now updated her initial blog entry which led to TREEGATE. It would appear Stella deserves an apology from certain posters.

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-picture.html


Thanks Shubob,

This is the updated bit.......

I must add since I have been rightly corrected and I have doublechecked the photos at that time, there are trees also lining the back side on the street, it is difficult to say today if one is high up looking down from one balcony or the other, who can see the window). My purpose of this photo was to show that the window and door of 5A was not a location that was as hidden from view as one might think.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 12:16

Thank you ShuBob for bringing this update to our attention and many thanks to Pat for taking another look into this.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by PeterMac on 15.02.12 12:25

Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:


Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

Why is the wall different ?

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 12:26

This bit seems to be added...................

Predators who crawl in and out windows tend to choose windows that look out on dark empty spaces or are nowhere near other buildings. For example, a predator might break in on the back side of an apartment building that has no lights and nothing but a deserted lot behind. A predator might crawl in the back window of an isolated house. But the 5A window was on a corner with traffic going by, on a parking lot which people are driving in and out of, under other apartment windows, across from other apartments and next to other apartments. Partially obscured from some angles, the predator knows the window is not obscured at other angles. He may not know exactly who can see him and who can't. For example, there is a break in the trees where the drive comes into the parking lot and through which the window can be seen. Just knowning that there is an apartment building looming over one's crime area for people to look down on you (either breaking in or out or leaving the area with a child) would be unnerving. Any predator would be smarter going in the back door which is far easier to slip in and out of and not be seen.

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-picture.html

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 12:29

Latest tweet from Pat......

ProfilerPatBPAT BROWN

I DID overlook the trees on the back side of the lot, so please go to my post & read my revised blog post. http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-picture.html #McCann

35 minutes ago

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Daisy on 15.02.12 12:30

@PeterMac wrote:
Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:


Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

Why is the wall different ?

Because the 3rd pic is of the block adjacent to block G (5A).

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 12:32

[quote="candyfloss"]This bit seems to be added...................

Predators who crawl in and out windows tend to choose windows that look out on dark empty spaces or are nowhere near other buildings. For example, a predator might break in on the back side of an apartment building that has no lights and nothing but a deserted lot behind. A predator might crawl in the back window of an isolated house. But the 5A window was on a corner with traffic going by, on a parking lot which people are driving in and out of, under other apartment windows, across from other apartments and next to other apartments. Partially obscured from some angles, the predator knows the window is not obscured at other angles. He may not know exactly who can see him and who can't. For example, there is a break in the trees where the drive comes into the parking lot and through which the window can be seen. Just knowning that there is an apartment building looming over one's crime area for people to look down on you (either breaking in or out or leaving the area with a child) would be unnerving. Any predator would be smarter going in the back door which is far easier to slip in and out of and not be seen.

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2012/02/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-picture.html[/quote]

Agree 100%

Which means, when Jane Tanner was walking along the top of that road, just before turning into the carpark, she would have noticed the shutter up, if it had really been up.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Cheshire Cat on 15.02.12 13:09

@Daisy wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:


Stella, the top photo you posted has only one old tree, the second is different, are they same place?

Yep, same place all around May 2007 and on Pamalam's site. Taken from things at that time.

Why is the wall different ?

Because the 3rd pic is of the block adjacent to block G (5A).
"Those trees are past the third floor of block 5, I really do not think any apartment opposite could have seen a thing."
The 3rd pic is the pic that Stella used to attempt to persuade me that that no opposite appartment would have had a view of the McCann's window because of the thick tree cover. The photographs of 5A from 2007, that match with the view that Pat had from the opposite window, do not show that same thick screen of trees.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 13:23



This photograph is a clear illustration of how the trees used to look before being felled. I think we can all agree this is apartment 5a and the tapas reception area.

This photo also brings me to another question raised by ME. We wondered if Tanner could see a shutter up, as she walked up that street. I think the answer to that question is no, looking at this picture. The wall is to high. But once you reach the top of that street and turn left, then the wall is much lower and if she looked to her left, I'm sure she could have. If it had really been up that is.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 13:29

Stella, it looks from that photo you just put of the trees on the opposite site of the road, the people on the third floor, would have been able to see over them across the road and look at 5a?. Pat took her photo from the third floor.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 13:36

Yes Candyfloss, Pat has now said she was on the 3rd floor, but as we saw in another photo some pages back, the trees outside 5a also went up to the 3rd floor. So eye contact between both 3rd floors would be better than 3rd floor to ground floor.

As there is a shortage of photographs, I will keep looking for better ones.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 13:44

Here you are Stella..photo showing as you turn corner at front of 5a ( think)

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/church/192.jpg


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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Cheshire Cat on 15.02.12 13:45

Stella wrote:Yes Candyfloss, Pat has now said she was on the 3rd floor, but as we saw in another photo some pages back, the trees outside 5a also went up to the 3rd floor. So eye contact between both 3rd floors would be better than 3rd floor to ground floor.

As there is a shortage of photographs, I will keep looking for better ones.

But as a number of posters have pointed out, the photograph with the trees up to the third floor was not a view of 5a!

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by ShuBob on 15.02.12 13:49

Personally, I don't think it matters whether there where trees or no trees. Sure, the apartment may have been obscurd somewhat but not TOTALLY obsured that people in the apartments opposite wouldn't have been able to see a thing whatever floor they were on.

In any case, it would be interesting to know if occupants of those apartments who had been in that fateful night of May 3 2007 where interviewed. From some of my windows, I can see what's happening several hundred yards away. I'm convinced that where there to be an incident, the police wouldn't automatically interview me as they may not immediately appreciate how much I'm able to see from the distance. I hope I would however be able to volunteer the information.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 13:51



Someone called Rich sent this into Pamalam for her photo collection.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/RICH.htm

Cheshire Cat, you just continue to make yourself look a right idiot. Have you come up with one photo yet from 2007? No.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by ShuBob on 15.02.12 13:59

The branches and leaves of trees move. Bear that in mind when deciding on visibility.

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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Guest on 15.02.12 14:00

Stella wrote:

Someone called Rich sent this into Pamalam for her photo collection.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/RICH.htm

Cheshire Cat, you just continue to make yourself look a right idiot. Have you come up with one photo yet from 2007? No.


Something totally wrong with all this, if that is supposed to be apartment 5a in the picture, then it is totally on the main road, no car park in front, yet this picture from the same link as yours Stella, shows apt 5a with a narrow path then a car park

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/RICH.htm
Next set of photos (part 1 of 2) are from the area immediately around apt. 5A, The Baptista Supermarket & lamp-posts etc.
5A_on_left


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Re: Criminal Profiling Topic of the Day: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words

Post by Daisy on 15.02.12 14:01

Post deleted for inflaming.

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