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Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by j.rob on 08.06.14 15:11

I'm going to scrutinize Matt a bit more. And why is it I am not at all surprised that he works within the NHS at none other than Kingston Hospital?

Not very good for the reputation of Kingston Hospital, is it,  that one of their top doctors witness testimony on oath is so flaky?

Tut, tut.

Or do they simply not care?

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by BlueBag on 08.06.14 15:19

Did MO actually get asked those questions?

It's been a long time since I read his interview.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by j.rob on 08.06.14 16:35

@Okeydokey wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:I can't believe this even after numerous re-reads


“No, it was just, you could just see the shape and bits of breathing”.

4078

“Okay”.

Reply

“I mean, I, for some reason I imagine that the children’s heads were towards the, towards the window, but I don’t know whether that’s just because I assume that’s the way I would put them down”.
00.36.22

4078

“Yeah”.

Reply

“Because I’ve seen it.  I don’t think I could see that much, the view”.

4078

“You can’t remember?”

Reply

“You could see the shapes and you could see they were breathing, you’d stop and look and you could see they were sort of breathing, but in terms of sort of features and standing over and seeing where their heads were, and I couldn’t say whether it was Sean or Amelie that was closest, it was just sort of, erm, sort of children in cots”.


For me this is such a weak account that any self respecting investigating officer would have probed and probed. 

This is the key to the whole case I think.


So he was there to check that the twins were breathing, then? 

Which very much raises the suggestion that breathing or not breathing is a key issue.

There are several areas of interest around this. Firstly, it raises the obvious question of when was Madeleine last (seen/heard?)  breathing? 

Matt did not see her when he went to check on the twins, by his own admission. The implication being that she may have already been 'stolen' by the mystery abductor for which there is no evidence. 

So perhaps  Matt did not need to check on Madeleine's breathing either because she now longer was breathing and Matt knew, or because Madeleine was no longer in the apartment and Matt knew. 

If either of the above were the case, then when did Madeleine stop breathing (if we assume the cadaver dogs findings are indicative of her corpse being in the apartment at some stage)? Or, where was Madeleine when Matt did the 9.30pm 'check'? Had she already been removed by an accomplice to another place, for instance.

The other point that flags up from the emphasis on breathing is that it  seems very likely to me (and Kate herself repeatedly refers to the possibility of Madeleine and the twins being sedated) that the twins were sedated that night as they were practically comatose throughout all the activity.

Is it just possible that Matt felt it necessary to flag up the twins breathing in the event that the police/Portuguese health visitor/social worker insisted on the twins being taken to hospital to be checked over?

Because, given the version of events that the McCanns gave, this SHOULD indeed have happened. The type of sedation would give vital clues as to what had happened plus also potentially provide DNA. Plus ensure that the twins were fine and had not been subjected to any kind of molestation/attack. Absolutely crucial information such as time of sedation, method of sedation and so on.

And, indeed, on page 75 of her book Kate writes: "I wandered into the children's bedroom several times to check on the twins. They were both lying on their fronts in a kind of crouch, with their heads turned sideways and their knees tucked under their tummies. In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn't stirred. They'd always been sound sleepers, but this seemed unnatural. Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically for some sign of life.  Had Madeleine been given some kind of sedative to keep her quiet. Had the twins too?"

This passage is so ludicrous. Kate wanders in??? As though she is browsing in a boutique. 

This woman is in all apparent seriousness suggesting that a (paedophile) abductor has broken into the apartment, drugged all the children and fled with Madeleine. The twins are not displaying any signs of life. So what does Kate do? She puts a hand on their backs. She does not try to move them or check on them in any way, not even turn them over so she can fully see their faces???? Just leaves them in a 'kind of crouch with their heads turned sideways.' 

So just leave them in the position that the abductor left them in, then, when he drugged them.

Yes, good idea, Kate. Why disturb the abductor's handiwork?

Their backs seem to be moving. Which is great because it means they're probably not dead. So we can wander out of their room now. 

Yes, that's two medically trained doctors who are parents and a large group of primarily doctors at Consultant level or other professionals. They all think a (paedophile) abductor has stolen a four year old child. There is a strong indication that the twins have been sedated. 

And they all think it is absolutely fine just to leave the other two children in the apparent coma that the (paedophile) abductor has left them in.

Keep me away from these NHS doctors is all I can say!

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by BlueBag on 08.06.14 16:40

This is more than a child stopping breathing (for whatever reason).

We know that blood was also involved.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by j.rob on 08.06.14 17:45

They have all tied themselves into the most appalling double-bind here.

By effectively admitting that they thought it was absolutely fine to wait until morning to see whether the abductor had tried to sedate, abuse or even tried to kill the twins
.....

....they are effectively leading the average person with average intelligence to only one realistic conclusion....

And that can only be that they knew that the twins HAD been sedated (or subjected to some kind of procedure/interference which they did not want to be revealed).

And if the twins were to be subjected to any kind of independent medical or forensic scrutiny, it WOULD or at least COULD have provided vital clues as to what had happened to Madeleine (as well as obviously the vital importance of ensuring the well-being of the twins.) And would have confirmed sedation or not. 

The type of sedative used, the method of sedation, the time of sedation.Where the sedative came from (Portugal/UK?) Or whatever else been done to the twins. Plus vital DNA maybe. Or indeed other evidence being on the twins or in the cots.

And while, theoretically at least, the MT might have still tried to argue that this merely reinforced the mystery abduction story by a nasty man who sedated children, it is quite possible that the evidence from the twins (especially with regards timing etc) would blow the MT story right out of the patio doors.

Apart from anything, the timing of the twins sedation would need to fit quite closely around the supposed 'timing' of Madeleine being 'stolen'. 

Wouldn't it? 

Otherwise it would blow the theory. Cause surely the abductor wouldn't have popped in and out of the apartment several times - sometimes sedating children and then leaving them, sometimes sedating them and stealing them.

That would be a silly theory......wouldn't it?? Why would Kate even want to suggest such a silly idea?!

Oh, but hang on!! I do believe we are expected to believe this! 

On page 63 of her book, Kate describes finding a large, brown stain on Madeleine's pyjama top on Thursday morning. Which she describes washing on page 65. Then on page 130 she she suggests that Madeleine's apparent excessive tiredness of that last Thursday afternoon could have been caused by some kind of tranquilizer administered earlier in the day, or even the night before?

Oh, so the abductor did pop in the night before and do some sedating but decided not to steal anyone, then?

MT also made much of the alleged 'crying' incident which is supposed to have taken place on Wednesday 2nd May, and when Madeleine asked them the next morning why they didn't come when Sean and her cried last night?

So there is a clear implication that the abductor had tried to drug Madeleine (the stain on the pyjama top/Madeleine's tiredness on Thursday) and had disturbed Madeleine and Sean so that they woke up and cried.

But why??

Why introduce what appears to be a pretty silly idea about an abductor popping in and out with sedatives.....??

Well, one reason might be  thinking 

That the evening/night of Wednesday 2nd May sedation/drugging of McCann children had, indeed, taken place

And by alluding to the possible sedation of the children by the naughty mystery abductor this could serve to  cover tracks in the event of the Portuguese police insisting that the twins were taken to hospital after Madeleine's 'disappearance'.

Because this, of course, would or could at least have revealed vital information. 

Such as: the precise time that the drugs were administered to the twins?

And, just suppose that precise time was not the same as the time that Madeleine disappeared (or the time that the abductor would have had to drug her in order to get her comatose enough to steal without her protesting). 

So that when people asked: 'Yes, but there is evidence that the twins were sedated at a different time to the time-frame for when the abductor 'stole' Madeleine, Kate can say: 'yes, but he popped in and out sedating children the night before or even on that day and just didn't steal them or Madeleine then but came back. So the fact that there is proof that the twins were sedated on Wednesday evening just proves that is what the abductor did.'

Just such as shame isn't it Kate - as indeed you have written in your excellent book - that the bumbling sardine-munching police refused to have toxicology tests done on the twins, despite your pleading, for a whole THREE months. Which as you would know with your medical training, is just too long to get results.

Especially when a nasty hair-dresser had obviously forced you to get the twins hair cut in the meantime

Such a shame.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by notlongnow on 08.06.14 17:53

Sedation totally rules out any abductor imo.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by HelenMeg on 24.06.14 12:02

Snippet from MO's rog interview - relating to tennis playing. Just read even his first answer - so cringingly awkward BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT HE HAS BEEN PRIMED TO REMEMBER THE DETAILS OF THE THURSDAY 

078 "Did you play tennis every day?"
 
Reply "No, erm, no, I think, I think we tried to play tennis, because they two things, they do sort of organised lessons and we signed up for some lessons which got delayed for weather reasons later in the week, I can't remember if we signed up for those straight away, because we didn't do a group, we didn't do a group lesson which we'd done, when did we do a group lesson, I don't think we did, I think we just did, Rachael and I, erm, with, erm, with an instructor, because I think we felt we'd play sort of socially with everybody else and then we'd have, do some sort of private lessons rather than signing up all week. I'm not sure about that. I don't remember playing any organised games with anybody else, I think we just had sort of three, sort of two or three, erm, proper tennis lessons".
 
4078 "Do you remember when they were?"
 
Reply "Erm, I know there was one on the last Thursday, because it got moved over from Wednesday, because Wednesday it rained and Thursday was a pretty decent day for weather, erm, so it would probably have been, if I'm thinking it's three, it would probably have been Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, but I can't remember".
 
4078 "Okay".
 
Reply "I know we played social tennis with the men in the evening, erm, on that Thursday and we actually, because there weren't that many people around, erm, and we actually asked them whether they could move the tennis forward so they could go to the social tennis, because it was actually later and it would have gone across bath time so at least half of us wouldn't have been able to, erm, wouldn't have been able to go, so they actually moved it forward and I think they moved it to six o'clock from either seven or six thirty, I think we'd asked for it to actually be moved to five thirty but it wasn't obviously fair on everybody else, in terms of guests, so they didn't move it completely forward, but they certainly moved it forward by at least half an hour".
 
4078 "And that as on the Thursday?"
 
Reply "They moved it for ever night, erm, but, erm, the Thursday I remember because it was the men's social and we didn't think we were going to be able to, to get there because we were already a bit late down the beach, but we'd had sort of a bit of free time, we'd already had our sort of time off child care, if you like, and we didn't know whether the girls were going to give us a pass to do it, but they did late, so we ended up going to it, but sort of quite late for it, we were pretty late by the time".

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by Okeydokey on 25.06.14 1:09

@russiandoll wrote:I can't believe this even after numerous re-reads


“No, it was just, you could just see the shape and bits of breathing”.

4078

“Okay”.

Reply

“I mean, I, for some reason I imagine that the children’s heads were towards the, towards the window, but I don’t know whether that’s just because I assume that’s the way I would put them down”.
00.36.22

4078

“Yeah”.

Reply

“Because I’ve seen it.  I don’t think I could see that much, the view”.

4078

“You can’t remember?”

Reply

“You could see the shapes and you could see they were breathing, you’d stop and look and you could see they were sort of breathing, but in terms of sort of features and standing over and seeing where their heads were, and I couldn’t say whether it was Sean or Amelie that was closest, it was just sort of, erm, sort of children in cots”.


Yes, that is literally, strictly unbelievable. You can see "shapes" that's all but at the same time you can see they were breathing. Anyone who's checked on a child, maybe an ill child, will know that it requires some close study in half light to see if they are breathing. If you can see they are breathing you are seeing a lot more than shapes. This is complete and utter...well fill in the blank, it can't possibly be the truth. Either the guy is the most inarticulate highly qualified medic in the land (beating Kate McCann narrowly into second place) and can't express himself like normal people or he is serving up complete BS.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by fossey on 25.06.14 6:12

Totally agree. Oldfield is talking absolute garbage and lying through his teeth.

You read crap like that and you don't know whether to laugh or cry. It really is pathetic that - a) he thought it was credible and believable and b) that the police did not question this guff he was spouting.

Clearly Oldfield never did this supposed check so why did he put himself in this position.

What has K and G got on Oldfield.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by aquila on 25.06.14 6:23

@HelenMeg wrote:Snippet from MO's rog interview - relating to tennis playing. Just read even his first answer - so cringingly awkward BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT HE HAS BEEN PRIMED TO REMEMBER THE DETAILS OF THE THURSDAY 

078 "Did you play tennis every day?"
 
Reply "No, erm, no, I think, I think we tried to play tennis, because they two things, they do sort of organised lessons and we signed up for some lessons which got delayed for weather reasons later in the week, I can't remember if we signed up for those straight away, because we didn't do a group, we didn't do a group lesson which we'd done, when did we do a group lesson, I don't think we did, I think we just did, Rachael and I, erm, with, erm, with an instructor, because I think we felt we'd play sort of socially with everybody else and then we'd have, do some sort of private lessons rather than signing up all week. I'm not sure about that. I don't remember playing any organised games with anybody else, I think we just had sort of three, sort of two or three, erm, proper tennis lessons".
 
4078 "Do you remember when they were?"
 
Reply "Erm, I know there was one on the last Thursday, because it got moved over from Wednesday, because Wednesday it rained and Thursday was a pretty decent day for weather, erm, so it would probably have been, if I'm thinking it's three, it would probably have been Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, but I can't remember".
 
4078 "Okay".
 
Reply "I know we played social tennis with the men in the evening, erm, on that Thursday and we actually, because there weren't that many people around, erm, and we actually asked them whether they could move the tennis forward so they could go to the social tennis, because it was actually later and it would have gone across bath time so at least half of us wouldn't have been able to, erm, wouldn't have been able to go, so they actually moved it forward and I think they moved it to six o'clock from either seven or six thirty, I think we'd asked for it to actually be moved to five thirty but it wasn't obviously fair on everybody else, in terms of guests, so they didn't move it completely forward, but they certainly moved it forward by at least half an hour".
 
4078 "And that as on the Thursday?"
 
Reply "They moved it for ever night, erm, but, erm, the Thursday I remember because it was the men's social and we didn't think we were going to be able to, to get there because we were already a bit late down the beach, but we'd had sort of a bit of free time, we'd already had our sort of time off child care, if you like, and we didn't know whether the girls were going to give us a pass to do it, but they did late, so we ended up going to it, but sort of quite late for it, we were pretty late by the time".
What is it with these people and 'bathtime'?




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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by fossey on 25.06.14 6:36

@aquila wrote:What is it with these people and 'bathtime'?



Not sure but it is concerning and to me it has a sinister feel to it.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by BlueBag on 25.06.14 7:02

I think it would be interesting to ask them (the males) if they bathed other people's children on this holiday.

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Re: Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory interview - snippets

Post by HelenMeg on 25.06.14 10:01

@aquila wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:Snippet from MO's rog interview - relating to tennis playing. Just read even his first answer - so cringingly awkward BUT YOU CAN SEE THAT HE HAS BEEN PRIMED TO REMEMBER THE DETAILS OF THE THURSDAY 

078 "Did you play tennis every day?"
 
Reply "No, erm, no, I think, I think we tried to play tennis, because they two things, they do sort of organised lessons and we signed up for some lessons which got delayed for weather reasons later in the week, I can't remember if we signed up for those straight away, because we didn't do a group, we didn't do a group lesson which we'd done, when did we do a group lesson, I don't think we did, I think we just did, Rachael and I, erm, with, erm, with an instructor, because I think we felt we'd play sort of socially with everybody else and then we'd have, do some sort of private lessons rather than signing up all week. I'm not sure about that. I don't remember playing any organised games with anybody else, I think we just had sort of three, sort of two or three, erm, proper tennis lessons".
 
4078 "Do you remember when they were?"
 
Reply "Erm, I know there was one on the last Thursday, because it got moved over from Wednesday, because Wednesday it rained and Thursday was a pretty decent day for weather, erm, so it would probably have been, if I'm thinking it's three, it would probably have been Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, but I can't remember".
 
4078 "Okay".
 
Reply "I know we played social tennis with the men in the evening, erm, on that Thursday and we actually, because there weren't that many people around, erm, and we actually asked them whether they could move the tennis forward so they could go to the social tennis, because it was actually later and it would have gone across bath time so at least half of us wouldn't have been able to, erm, wouldn't have been able to go, so they actually moved it forward and I think they moved it to six o'clock from either seven or six thirty, I think we'd asked for it to actually be moved to five thirty but it wasn't obviously fair on everybody else, in terms of guests, so they didn't move it completely forward, but they certainly moved it forward by at least half an hour".
 
4078 "And that as on the Thursday?"
 
Reply "They moved it for ever night, erm, but, erm, the Thursday I remember because it was the men's social and we didn't think we were going to be able to, to get there because we were already a bit late down the beach, but we'd had sort of a bit of free time, we'd already had our sort of time off child care, if you like, and we didn't know whether the girls were going to give us a pass to do it, but they did late, so we ended up going to it, but sort of quite late for it, we were pretty late by the time".
What is it with these people and 'bathtime'?



I think bath time is the red herring here. He is trying to remember a script he has been given with reference to events of the Thursday.  Its very important that he can say what he has been told to say..contrast his description of Thursday's events compared to his vague  utterances about other days. What is he actually saying in the following paragraph?

 

"I know we played social tennis with the men in the evening, erm, on that Thursday

(He knows they played social tennis on Thursday evening)

 and we actually, because there weren't that many people around, erm, and we actually asked them whether they could move the tennis forward so they could go to the social tennis,

(They asked 'them' (OC staff ?) whether Social Tennis could start earlier than normal)

 because it was actually later and it would have gone across bath time so at least half of us wouldn't have been able to, erm, wouldn't have been able to go, so they actually moved it forward and I think they moved it to six o'clock from either seven or six thirty,

(social tennis was usually at 6.30 pm or 7pm but they moved it earlier on Thursday - back to 6pm - especially to accommodate TAPAS9. This means that Tapas 9 bathtime must have been scheduled for approx 6.30pm - 7.30pm).

 I think we'd asked for it to actually be moved to five thirty but it wasn't obviously fair on everybody else, in terms of guests, so they didn't move it completely forward, but they certainly moved it forward by at least half an
hour".


So Matt it seems, was keen to emphasise bathtime was scheduled on that night Thursday 3rd May for around 6.30 - 7.30pm and that the men played social tennis from 6pm onwards so that they could be available for bathtime. If there was anything strange going on at bathtimes then they wouldn't be mentioned.
I feel this is all to emphasise timings and place people in certain locations.

This is all to do with timings - so does this fit in with the Paraiso CCTV etc.?

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