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Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

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Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Guest on 31.01.12 11:50

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Having studied this statement in relation to her neice Carole Tranmer, I have found some serious anomalies. The main area of concern, is with what was said in the Tranmer statement, with what is missing in the Fenn statement.

PFCTmedia
burglary before 28/04/07
burglary after 28/04/07
neice present during burglary
mentions visit on 29/04/07
photos on terrace on 29/04/07
mentions visit on 03/05/07 am
mentions visit on 03/05/07 pm
fish restaurant in Lagos 03/05/07

In Mrs Fenn's statement on the 20th August 2007, it clearly states that the visit on the 3rd was "during the morning". There is no mention of her neice being there in the afternoon. There is no mention of the visit to her favourite fish restaurant in Lagos, she says "during the day nothing unusual happened", not until she hears Kate's scream. Mrs Fenn does not mention her neice being present during her burglary. Mrs Fenn does not mention any previous visits from her neice that week, or taking photographs on her terrace, which is allegedly the same day as the burglary and mentions nothing. Mrs Fenn said the suspicious man seen below, was "looking into the McCann's apartment". Her neice said he was walking out of the garden gate. They must have discussed this before Mrs Fenn gave her statement in August 2007, so why are there so many mistakes?

Pamela Fenn’s Statement 20th August 2007

"On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece Carole during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCann’s apartment, situation which has been told to the police, her family member even made a photo fit". During the day nothing unusual happened, until almost 22.30 when, being alone again, she heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out, we have let her down, which she repeated several times, quite upset".

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by sharonl on 31.01.12 20:19

THIS IS AN INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT.
THERE ARE 2 PEOPLE SPEAKING, A POLICE OFFICER & MRS FENN'S NIECE

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROL_TRANMER.htm


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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Nina on 01.02.12 18:13

Hi Stella and Sharonl. It looks as though Mrs Fenn said very little really compared to CT. Could this maybe due to her age and short term memory? Not arguing just offering an explanation that for Mrs Fenn could have been the reason for her lack of recent memory.

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from the press

Post by russiandoll on 01.02.12 18:49

Mirror, August 2007.

In a new development, a British expat has come forward with dramatic new evidence.

Pamela Fenn said a man broke into her flat above the McCanns' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, on the Algarve, just weeks before Madeleine disappeared.

There was no sign of a break-in and it is thought the intruder may have had a key.

Mrs Fenn, who is in her 70s, found the man scrambling out of the window and tried to grab his ankle. But he escaped.

She reported the incident to Portuguese police but they did not question her again.

The information only resurfaced after British police reviewed the case two weeks ago. Mrs Fenn will now be formally interviewed for the first time on Monday.

Mrs Fenn's niece has said she spotted a suspicious man near the McCanns' apartment around the time Madeleine disappeared.

She said he matched the description of a suspect seen by one of the McCanns' friends.

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and from the express

Post by russiandoll on 01.02.12 18:58




On the night Madeleine disappeared, Mrs Fenn also heard a child crying, but it was when Kate returned from a nearby restaurant to check on her daughter that she was first aware something was wrong.

A source close to Mrs Fenn said: "She often sits on the balcony at night and heard a commotion downstairs.

"She heard the woman who she now knows to be Kate crying 'We have let her down, we have let her down'."

The source added: "She did not understand what was meant by this, but she asked if they wanted her to call the police. She was told it had already been done."

Mrs Fenn has also told police about an attempted burglary at her apartment several weeks earlier.

She said a man broke in through the first-floor window but she disturbed him and he jumped out of it.

The source said: "She did not think it was significant. She has lived in Luz for some time and at her previous address was the victim of burglaries on a regular basis.

"There are lots of drug addicts in the area who prey on tourist apartments. Nothing was taken so she did not initially report it to the police."

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Nina on 01.02.12 19:08

@russiandoll wrote:


On the night Madeleine disappeared, Mrs Fenn also heard a child crying, but it was when Kate returned from a nearby restaurant to check on her daughter that she was first aware something was wrong.

A source close to Mrs Fenn said: "She often sits on the balcony at night and heard a commotion downstairs.

"She heard the woman who she now knows to be Kate crying 'We have let her down, we have let her down'."

The source added: "She did not understand what was meant by this, but she asked if they wanted her to call the police. She was told it had already been done."

Mrs Fenn has also told police about an attempted burglary at her apartment several weeks earlier.

She said a man broke in through the first-floor window but she disturbed him and he jumped out of it.

The source said: "She did not think it was significant. She has lived in Luz for some time and at her previous address was the victim of burglaries on a regular basis.

"There are lots of drug addicts in the area who prey on tourist apartments. Nothing was taken so she did not initially report it to the police."



Good evening russiandoll. This snip from your post,

"She heard the woman who she now knows to be Kate crying 'We have let her down, we have let her down'."

Yes Kate you and Gerry did let Madeleine down because whatever happened to Madeleine, whatever, you allowed it to happen.

So keep that thought Kate and Gerry in all your posturing, you allowed to happen to Madeleine, whatever "it" was, to happen.

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by sharonl on 01.02.12 21:02

So Pamela Fenn not only backs up the McCann's story that the children were left alone, she also backs up Kates story about Madeleine comment "why did you not come when we were crying last night", and the tales of burglaries in the area, backing up the McCanns tales of suspicious men hanging around the apartment.

Carole Tranmer turns up just in time, was looking over the balcony at just the right time and flew back home on May 3rd claiming to have seen a blond man acting suspiciously around apt 5a in broad daylight just like the McCanns have told us.

Mrs Fenn has 3 sons in the UK, one of them a marketing manager for a london company. What do we know about these three sons?

Its a very long shot but is there a connection to Donna-Marie Fenn? She is marketing manager of Eversheds London and somehow links to Smethursts' Palladium associates.

Where did the Tranmers go looking for properties? Did they use an agency? Could a property developer by the name of Murat or his contacts have been of any assistance?




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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Gillyspot on 01.02.12 21:51

Wasn't Carol Tranmer's suspicious gent looking over Oldfield's apartment as he went out of the gate at the front and the McCanns was on the side?


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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by sharonl on 01.02.12 22:22

@Gillyspot wrote:Wasn't Carol Tranmer's suspicious gent looking over Oldfield's apartment as he went out of the gate at the front and the McCanns was on the side?


You are most likely right. For what its worth here is an extract from Caroles' interview transcript

CT'It is only that gate, that is the only one.

DC1485'Would you mind making me an outline, please'

CT'Sure.

DC1485'If you would, if you make it, if you could make the same one as this block here.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'And after, please mark an X in the location where you saw this man leaving.

CT'Okay.

DC1485'And after where, where is the gate in relation to the area from where he left.

CT'So, here is the block, okay, then the veranda of my aunt and here on top.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'I am looking forward, here in the bottom is a small gate and here is the rua estreita. There is the rua estreita and there are shrubs here and here, the small gates, they are all like this and you climb some steps or can enter from the right, I believe, to enter the apartment. Thus I am looking more or less upwards to downwards and he left from here' the first gate you reach. I did not know of this one here, I did not know of this one.

DC1485'Ah ah.

CT'What I know is that this is the gate and this is what I thought.

DC1485'And can you tell me if he came out of an apartment or was simply exiting the complex'

CT'He was leaving, he was exiting.

DC1485'From an apartment'

CT'I did not see him leave an apartment. I only saw him leave from the gate.

DC1485'Did the gate give direct access to the apartment'

CT'But he was, yes... mmm... no, not at the last apartment.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'I suppose there is another apartment.

DC1485'Okay. I am seeing it.

CT' According to what I saw below, it happened here, it could have been the last apartment.

DC1485'In your opinion, is it possible that he was leaving his apartment, next to the last apartment'

CT'Mmm, mmm.

DC1485'This, this is just to say'

CT'Probably, oh it is right to say this because I would hate to state that he was; he may not have been leaving because that past one was a different entrance.

Dc1485'Yes, okay.

CT'A different entrance as a whole, the site closest to that row, the first door must have been next to the stairs.

DC1485'Yes and after you saw him leave, what happened'

CT'Well, he opened the gate from inside and made so he did not make any noise, I only'it was what made me feel strange about it. He did this all very quietly, as if... you know, when a gate creeks, but he ensured that it did not make noise, it could have been (inaudible)

DC1485'With caution'

CT'Yes, simply ensuring that it did not bang, and I know some people who enter without banging the doorafter they enter, so this was very cautious, very careful, and for this reason, only this reason, I called you.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'It looked as though he was leaving, he closed it with both his hands, many times, closing it in silence and cautiously with both hands and he looked lastly this way downwards, first to this side.

DC1485'So what you are saying is that he looked first in your direction' He looked to you, but he was not positioned. This way

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Then he looked to the left.

CT'Oh I see.

DC1485'And after he cautiously and slowly pushed it and afterwards looked to the right, and continued walking.

CT'And he'the direction he took was to the street.

DC1485'He then went in this direction to the street, here, this street.

CT'Yes.

DC1485'Along here in this direction towards the supermarket.

CT'Yes. But I do not know if he went in that direction or in this direction.

DC1485'(inaudible)

CT'Walking this way upwards and I then turned to my aunt and my husband.

DC1485'Then on your map, where do you believe you saw him for the last time'

CT'At the exterior of the gate. He was closing it.


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oh yes

Post by russiandoll on 02.02.12 13:39

@sharonl wrote:So Pamela Fenn not only backs up the McCann's story that the children were left alone, she also backs up Kates story about Madeleine comment "why did you not come when we were crying last night", and the tales of burglaries in the area, backing up the McCanns tales of suspicious men hanging around the apartment.

Carole Tranmer turns up just in time, was looking over the balcony at just the right time and flew back home on May 3rd claiming to have seen a blond man acting suspiciously around apt 5a in broad daylight just like the McCanns have told us.

Mrs Fenn has 3 sons in the UK, one of them a marketing manager for a london company. What do we know about these three sons?

Its a very long shot but is there a connection to Donna-Marie Fenn? She is marketing manager of Eversheds London and somehow links to Smethursts' Palladium associates.

Where did the Tranmers go looking for properties? Did they use an agency? Could a property developer by the name of Murat or his contacts have been of any assistance?




thanks for the above......I posted similar to this last week. Maybe sound like a conspiracy theorist, but weren't the timing and similarities of experiences just remarkable?

About the blond guy.[note the press said he was like JTs dark haired man].....not suggesting this was the case. but a young blond man leaving a holiday flat furtively could have been indulging in a little afternoon delight with one of the residents.

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Guest on 02.02.12 13:55

Yes, at last, well done everyone.

Sharonl, affraid If that is true, that would be the end of this 5G, suspicious sighting in 5B angle.

As for Pamela Fenn's memory. Carole Tranmer said she managed the Residence Association, so I doubt very much she had any difficulties there.

It was reported that the break-in in 5G happened with the use of a key. Mrs Fenn lived there full time and would not have left a key with OC. So where did this so called burglar get a key to her property from? Or is this another break-in without any damamge, like the one below in 5a?

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why?

Post by russiandoll on 02.02.12 14:23


sorry we are moving away from P Fenn, last post here about CT...
why this response here? [from sharoni's post earlier]


CT'It is only that gate, that is the only one.

DC1485 Would you mind making me an outline, please'

CT'Sure


and this one also in her RI

DC1485'The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well.

CT'Outline'

DC1485'Yes.

CT'Oh my God.

DC1485'You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw.

CT'Mmm.

DC1485'You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace'

CT'Mmm, mmm

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Guest on 02.02.12 14:38

This is when she dodged explaining about the burglary in 5G. Now why would she need to do that? Why not tell them everything she saw about this burglar that could be connected to Madeleine? Could it be that one of them reported it to the PJ as occurring the week before she arrived and she virtually confirms in that statement, that she was there at the time?

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Daisy on 08.02.12 22:27

Stella wrote: Yes, at last, well done everyone.



As for Pamela Fenn's memory. Carole Tranmer said she managed the Residence Association, so I doubt very much she had any difficulties there.

Please don’t take my questions personally Stella , but where
does Carole Tranmer say her aunt ‘managed’ the Residents Association? All I read is:

CT She knows some people from the Resident's Association but I
cannot guarantee that she knew who was staying there. She is pretty reserved or
at least tries to be, but she does know the majority of the members of the
Resident's Association and when there is a meeting'for this reason perhaps she
knew that an apartment would be occupied. Remembering this after so much time
has passed”




So she knew some people & knew when there was a meeting. that's all I read.
I feel very uncomfortable seeing this old lady’s statement
ripped to pieces like this. She’s dead & can’t ever put the story straight.
So it disturbs me that she’s being discredited in such a meaningless way. I don't get what's going on here?

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by jd on 08.02.12 23:01

“CT She knows some people from the Resident's Association but I cannot guarantee that she knew who was staying there. She is pretty reserved or at least tries to be, but she does know the majority of the members of the Resident's Association and when there is a meeting'for this reason perhaps she knew that an apartment would be occupied. Remembering this after so much time has passed”

I don't see how this says she 'managed' the Resident's Association. It says she 'knew' members of the Association when she 'attended' a meeting, not everyone who attends meetings are managing them otherwise they'd all be managing each other!

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Daisy on 08.02.12 23:16

@jd wrote:
“CT She knows some people from the Resident's Association but I cannot guarantee that she knew who was staying there. She is pretty reserved or at least tries to be, but she does know the majority of the members of the Resident's Association and when there is a meeting'for this reason perhaps she knew that an apartment would be occupied. Remembering this after so much time has passed”

I don't see how this says she 'managed' the Resident's Association. It says she 'knew' members of the Association when she 'attended' a meeting, not everyone who attends meetings are managing them otherwise they'd all be managing each other!

Read it even more carefully JD and you will see she doesn't even mention 'attending' a meeting just that she knew when there was a meeting, that could read that Mrs F only recieved feedback from RA meetings?

I wouldn't be wasting my time debating over this but I feel it is very wrong to discredit someone based on untruths.

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by jd on 08.02.12 23:23

@Daisy wrote:

Read it even more carefully JD and you will see she doesn't even mention 'attending' a meeting just that she knew when there was a meeting, that could read that Mrs F only recieved feedback from RA meetings?

I wouldn't be wasting my time debating over this but I feel it is very wrong to discredit someone based on untruths.

I agree and stick to the known facts which in this case Mrs Fenn does not say she managed the RA. You don't need to be an Einstein to see this

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Guest on 08.02.12 23:39

I agree with you Daisy and JD that, on the basis of this particular extract of statement, I do not think that Mrs Fenn managed the Residents' Association.

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Guest on 09.02.12 9:03

@Daisy wrote:Please don’t take my questions personally Stella , but where does Carole Tranmer say her aunt ‘managed’ the Residents Association? All I read is:

CT She knows some people from the Resident's Association but I cannot guarantee that she knew who was staying there. She is pretty reserved or at least tries to be, but she does know the majority of the members of the Resident's Association and when there is a meeting'for this reason perhaps she knew that an apartment would be occupied. Remembering this after so much time has passed”
So she knew some people & knew when there was a meeting. that's all I read.I will conceed that she never said her aunt managed the Residents Association, but seeing as Mrs Fenn was the only permanent resident in block 5 and I quote from Carole Tranmer's sattement, “All the other owners, the majority of them, more or less, are people who acquired the apartments and rent them or else use them only for holidays. For this reason, there are times in the year when she is alone”. It therefore makes perfect sense that Mrs Fenn was quite possibly more than just a member of the Association.

I feel very uncomfortable seeing this old lady’s statement ripped to pieces like this. She’s dead & can’t ever put the story straight.
Seeing as you have quoted from this statement for quite some time now Daisy, surely you must have noticed this came from Carole Tranmer's statement, it's her words and as far as I know she is still alive and still a very important witness.

So it disturbs me that she’s being discredited in such a meaningless way. I don't get what's going on here? So you have said many times now Daisy and the record is wearing very thin. Your constant need to dismiss the importance of these witness statements, is nothing more than a constant disruption. It will not be tolerated for much longer.

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.02.12 10:32

Confused! Sorry about this, but I just don't see why Mrs Fenn's statement should be ignored, or treated as being God's honest fact just because she is unfortunately no longer with us?
We discuss all the other witness statements, and I don't see even if alive she has anything 'to defend' herself against??? Should we leave this statement to gather dust, ignored, because she happens to have died? I don't think so. ALL the statements are important, its how they agree and disagree, contradict and complement each other that will get us to where the lies are.

Now - CT's statement - unless I'm being exceedingly daft, she seems to have either flat-out lied, or maybe just exaggerated her position somewhat? If you look towards the end of the bit you've printed, she says the 'man' turned up the street, maybe towards the supermarket? Messiah then asks CT where, on the map, she last saw the 'man'. She states, the gate! Did he turn back to the gate? Is it a different gate? She can't have seen him 'turned up the road' if she then says she last saw him at the gate after he shut it!
Or have I misread?

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by Guest on 09.02.12 10:47

rainbow-fairy, you are absolutely right. All statements 'are' important and they need to be compared with all the others we have, to spot any contradictions. Anyone who does not understand this, or even likes it, can find another forum to disrupt.

Would it be OK with you if I move your post to the Carole Tranmer thread please? The reason for this, is her sighting is very important and I think the man she saw was a tennis friend/coach of the T9 group. Probably trying to see if Matt was up for a game later on at teatime. If this is who he was, there was no suspicious man, as he was known to Matt Oldfield.

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Re: Pamela Fenn's statement given on 20th August 2007

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.02.12 12:56

Stella wrote:rainbow-fairy, you are absolutely right. All statements 'are' important and they need to be compared with all the others we have, to spot any contradictions. Anyone who does not understand this, or even likes it, can find another forum to disrupt.

Would it be OK with you if I move your post to the Carole Tranmer thread please? The reason for this, is her sighting is very important and I think the man she saw was a tennis friend/coach of the T9 group. Probably trying to see if Matt was up for a game later on at teatime. If this is who he was, there was no suspicious man, as he was known to Matt Oldfield.

Stella that is not a problem at all - I think its where it belongs, thanks!

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