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Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

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Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Ollie on 25.01.12 15:13

Just what and how did Matt Oldfield check the McCann children on the alleged abduction night?

MO said in his statement that he couldn't see Madeleine in her bed. Why not? Madeleines bed was by the bedroom door, he would have had an unobscured view of her bed. But he could clearly see the twins breathing in their cots, which were further away and would of been obscured by the sides of the cots. IMO implausible.

According to the McCanns Madeleine had already been abducted by the time of MOs check so the bed would of been empty, and I believe the cots were empty, one of the nannies said in her statement that the twins were not in their cots when the alarm was raised. So imo the twins were not in the room when MO checked, they were put back in there when the PJ were called. So MO was checking an empty room!

So either he didn't do the check or he was supposed to raise the alarm, perhaps he didn't because things were not set up, the curtains and window were still closed, the shutters weren't forced open. IMO something stopped the scene from being set up properly earlier, when GM was making his check.

KM shouting that 'they had taken her, we've let her down', I think this was panic because of what they were doing. Even well rehearsed actors get their lines wrong and they have a written script!

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by rainbow-fairy on 25.01.12 15:24

Wasn't it Gerry, in his statement, or a statement, who said 'The twins were taken back to their own apartment'? This suggests to me that the children were all being minded elsewhere. 5A was then used as the abduction 'stage' and the twins placed there 'for appearences' only -then back to where they really were.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Gillyspot on 25.01.12 16:44

It was impossible for Matthew to see one of the twins "breathing" without going into the room - Then he must have been able to see Madeleine also.

Showing the NON see through end to the cots & Madeleine's bed

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Ollie on 25.01.12 17:01

[quote="Gillyspot"]It was impossible for Matthew to see one of the twins "breathing" without going into the room - Then he must have been able to see Madeleine also.

Showing the NON see through end to the cots & Madeleine's bed

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg[/quote]

Thanks for posting that Gillyspot. So MO would have had to go over to the cot on the right and looked down at the twin to see that he/she was breathing.

Also strange that by this time according to the McCanns Madeleine had been abducted, but in her bewk nothing is mentioned about the check by MO except a cheery line about everythings ok. If that were me I'm afraid I would of let rip in my book that my friend had let me down as he obviously had not done the check properly, the alarm could of gone out earlier that Madeleine was missing, but nothing in the bewk. But of course KM has saved all her vindictiveness for Goncalo Amaral.

IMO there are two conclusions:

1. Matt Oldfield went to the apartment not to check but to raise the alarm.

2. Matt Oldfield did not do a check, maybe didn't even go to the McCanns apartment.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by russiandoll on 05.03.12 13:22

Can anyone confirm which side the door was hinged? Diagrams I have seen indicate it is hinged on the right -hand side and so opens in the direction of the front door, not towards the foot of the bed Madeleine was allegedly sleeping in.......so why on earth would he not just pop his head around to the left, just inside the door frame, he would easily have seen the child sleeping there[ if there of course].
It is nonsense to me that an adult who had offered to check on the 3 children would not look at the one in the bed........checking that she was not too warm or cold and adjusting sheets for example.
makes no sense at all.

check/CHek/
Verb:
Examine (something) in order to determine its accuracy, quality, or condition, or to detect the presence of something.

how can you check the condition of a child if you cannot see him or her?
so there was no noise..and this supposedly intelligent man concluded
Maddie was in her bed
Maddie was sleeping soundly.

but this could have happened:
she had got out of bed and tripped over furniture [ she could have been lying on the far side of the cots, next to the bed under the window, having tried to make contact with her siblings] or this:
she could have wandered into her parents room and been asleep in there.
he did not see her anywhere in that apartment.
probably because she was not there.

the one night he should have been thorough.....he was not.
the one night there was an abduction, one of the party of friends is walking up the road at the very same time the abductor is crossing the street,

now what is the mathematical probability of these 2 things happening, let alone one of them?

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which bed did MO expect to see Madeleine in?

Post by worriedmum on 05.03.12 14:05

If there were two beds in the room, how did MO know which one he was supposed to check? The one by the window looks rumpled-up and would be the easiest to take a child through the window from. But the other one, which looks very neat to me, has the blanket and toy on? The thing that seems odd to me is that the one that is furthest away from the door and seems to be partially screened by cots, and nearest the window is more difficult to see than I would have thought the one on the left as you go in......thinking aloud here .... but I think he says all the children were asleep.....

Is it possible Madeleine got into the rumpled bed? Was any DNA found in it? Was MO too shocked to admit he'd looked at the wrong bed when he was checking?

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by russiandoll on 05.03.12 14:20

unbelievable, but this is what was said by MO in his RI :

Reply "Erm, and there's another bed along here, which is where Madeleine was supposed to be, erm, and you could just maybe catch the, it was probably set back a little bit, so you could just sort of catch about sort of six or eight inches of the, so you could see the outside corner, the corner deepest into the room".

4078 "Okay. So concentrate, if you can, on what you saw of that bed and tell me what you saw?"

Reply "Nothing, apart from that, it's just the end of the bed and that's, and that was it. And so it as just like the outside corner, there was no, couldn't see the whole length, couldn't see colours or legs or anything draping over it".

4078 "Did it have bed clothing on it, can you remember, or was it just a plain mattress or some sort of mattress cover or (inaudible), can you remember?"

Reply "Erm, my, erm, this would be sort of a guess, I think what I could see was a sheet and I think it was a metal base coming round the corner, but I couldn't swear to that. There was only a small bit that was visible".

4078 "Okay".

Reply "I don't think it was a bare, a bare mattress, I'm fairly sure there'd have been a sheet on it, but I don't remember anything sort of as bulky as a duvet over it".

4078 "Okay. And is there anything else you can say about what you saw of that bed?"

Reply "No, erm, I don't remember there being a pattern on it, it was, it was just sort of a glimpse and I don't know how reliable my memory is for this, I think it was plain coloured, maybe, if I was to go for it, I'd say it was sort of a light blue, but I really don't recall anything specific about the end of that bed, apart from just registering that there was a bed against that wall and that's probably where Madeleine was".


ABOUT THE SORT OF LEGS SORT OF DRAPING OVER IT...........HE WAS NOT SORT OF REFERRING TO THE SORT OF LEGS OF THE BED WAS HE. HE MUST HAVE BEEN SORT OF REFERRING TO A PERSON'S LEGS.....

JUST HOW TALL WAS MADELEINE THAT HE MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED TO SEE HER SORT OF LEGS, IF HER SORT OF HEAD WAS ON THE SORT OF PILLOW WHERE YOU WOULD SORT OF EXPECT IT UP AT THE HEAD OF THE BED.

WAS SHE SORT OF 6 FT 6?

sorry for the sarcasm......how would he have seen a child's legs if he did not look into the room? the whole thing is rubbish.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by anil39200 on 05.03.12 14:35

Please correct me if I am wrong but is this chap not supposed to be trained to look for details as a medical professional? nah

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Guest on 05.03.12 14:39

In my opinion, he was talking about the legs of the bed. He could only see the corner of the base or mattress. What a wonderful check he carried out - he didn't bother to see if Madeleine was actually in the bed!

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by worriedmum on 05.03.12 14:41

Yes that sounds so casual, especially in the circumstances.

But how DO the two beds compare for DNA traces of Madeleine?

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niggle niggle niggle...

Post by worriedmum on 05.03.12 16:27

something doesn't feel right about this.......

MO says he's off to check his apt.................
then he says to the Mccanns 'I'll do yours'........................

He goes in.................

he either
a) can't see either bed OR
b) sees the nearest one is occupied OR
c)sees the nearest bed is empty and looks in the furthest one OR
d) sees the furthest one is occupied and goes away satisfied OR
e) sees both beds are empty and raises the alarm.......

but apparently does none of these?

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by PeterMac on 05.03.12 17:18

@worriedmum wrote:something doesn't feel right about this.......
MO says he's off to check his apt.................
then he says to the Mccanns 'I'll do yours'........................
He goes in.................
he either
a) can't see either bed OR
b) sees the nearest one is occupied OR
c)sees the nearest bed is empty and looks in the furthest one OR
d) sees the furthest one is occupied and goes away satisfied OR
e) sees both beds are empty and raises the alarm.......

but apparently does none of these?
From which we conclude - - - - - -
He did something else entirely.
Which might not involve checking 5a at all.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Guest on 05.03.12 17:21

The official story which of course we all believe implicitly is that the abductor took Madeleine in that "small window of opportunity" between the checks just after 9.00 and 9.30 by Gerry and Matt respectively. Therefore Matt had to say that he didn't actually see Madeleine at 9.30. Had he admitted to seeing her, the wondrous sighting by Jane Tanner of a man (or woman) carrying a child away at 9.15 would have been invalidated.

So for whatever reason there may have been, it was better for him to claim that he was totally useless at checking up on whether children were okay.

That brings me back to the whole of the Tapas 9; what did they have to hide that made admitting to neglecting their children seem a better option?

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Guest on 05.03.12 18:46

@PeterMac wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:something doesn't feel right about this.......
MO says he's off to check his apt.................
then he says to the Mccanns 'I'll do yours'........................
He goes in.................
he either
a) can't see either bed OR
b) sees the nearest one is occupied OR
c)sees the nearest bed is empty and looks in the furthest one OR
d) sees the furthest one is occupied and goes away satisfied OR
e) sees both beds are empty and raises the alarm.......

but apparently does none of these?
From which we conclude - - - - - -
He did something else entirely.
Which might not involve checking 5a at all.

According to his witness statement on 4th May it would seem so PeterMac. He says he went into the apartment and childrens bedroom twice and there were TWO windows.............


[b]He states that the bedroom has two windows[/b]. The twins occupy two cots placed in the middle of the room and Madeleine occupies a bed pushed against the wall, facing the wall which has the two windows that look out onto the outside of the complex. That the door through which he entered the apartment was closed but not locked. That he doesn't know if it is usual for Madeleine's parents to leave the door closed but not locked in so far as that door is visible from the restaurant.

At around 10pm, Kate, Madeleine's mother, went to her apartment to check on her children. She came back totally shocked, shouting, saying that Madeleine was no longer in her bedroom. At that time all the adults were in the restaurant. Then, the whole group went to Madeleine's bedroom and checked that the twins were sleeping OK. That there was no signs of a burglary in the apartment. Only, one window in the children's bedroom was open. The window and the shutters were open.


huh wft

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by rainbow-fairy on 05.03.12 18:52

Jean wrote:The official story which of course we all believe implicitly is that the abductor took Madeleine in that "small window of opportunity" between the checks just after 9.00 and 9.30 by Gerry and Matt respectively. Therefore Matt had to say that he didn't actually see Madeleine at 9.30. Had he admitted to seeing her, the wondrous sighting by Jane Tanner of a man (or woman) carrying a child away at 9.15 would have been invalidated.

So for whatever reason there may have been, it was better for him to claim that he was totally useless at checking up on whether children were okay.

That brings me back to the whole of the Tapas 9; what did they have to hide that made admitting to neglecting their children seem a better option?
An eleven letter word beginning with 'P', maybe??? Wink

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Guest on 05.03.12 18:58

I might need to phone a friend to help me with that one, Rainbow-Fairy!

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books on book shelf

Post by bobbin on 05.03.12 19:26

Does anyone remember on one of the checks, and I thought it was Matt's, saying that he was looking at the books on the bookshelf, for some holiday reading. It might have been discussed as far back as the 3 Arguidos.

Either way, it certainly seemed at the time as if he were describing a room different from the McCann children's bedroom.

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Matt Oldfield again

Post by Guest on 05.03.12 21:23

@bobbin wrote:Does anyone remember on one of the checks, and I thought it was Matt's, saying that he was looking at the books on the bookshelf, for some holiday reading. It might have been discussed as far back as the 3 Arguidos.

Either way, it certainly seemed at the time as if he were describing a room different from the McCann children's bedroom.

Textusa cut him to pieces on the room he put forward (as: pretended) on having been in.

He described another place -> so was not in the MCS rooms. Not ever.

Either:


  • he lied;
  • he was drunk (and his PJ statements rot), making him an accomplice after the facts;
  • he is an idiot (employer hospital(s): TAKE CARE, WATCH OUT!!!)

See Textusa!

Happy hunting!


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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by rainbow-fairy on 05.03.12 22:14

@Portia wrote:
@bobbin wrote:Does anyone remember on one of the checks, and I thought it was Matt's, saying that he was looking at the books on the bookshelf, for some holiday reading. It might have been discussed as far back as the 3 Arguidos.

Either way, it certainly seemed at the time as if he were describing a room different from the McCann children's bedroom.

Textusa cut him to pieces on the room he put forward (as: pretended) on having been in.

He described another place -> so was not in the MCS rooms. Not ever.

Either:


  • he lied;
  • he was drunk (and his PJ statements rot), making him an accomplice after the facts;
  • he is an idiot (employer hospital(s): TAKE CARE, WATCH OUT!!!)

See Textusa!

Happy hunting!

There is another possibility Portia...
How about he'd never set foot in 5A but he'd been in and was describing the McCann's apartment?
Think about it - Gerry stating that after the GNR/PJ arrived 'the twins were taken back to their apartment'?
I believe that 5A was purely the 'stage'. Certainly would explain the lack of Maddie DNA...

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Miraflores on 06.03.12 7:21

There is another possibility Portia...
How about he'd never set foot in 5A but he'd been in and was describing the McCann's apartment?
Think about it - Gerry stating that after the GNR/PJ arrived 'the twins were taken back to their apartment'?
I believe that 5A was purely the 'stage'. Certainly would explain the lack of Maddie DNA...

And would help explain why Kate had no problem in apparently leaving the twins alone there, and dashing back to the Tapas bar.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by rainbow-fairy on 06.03.12 8:35

@Miraflores wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:There is another possibility Portia...
How about he'd never set foot in 5A but he'd been in and was describing the McCann's apartment?
Think about it - Gerry stating that after the GNR/PJ arrived 'the twins were taken back to their apartment'?
I believe that 5A was purely the 'stage'. Certainly would explain the lack of Maddie DNA...

And would help explain why Kate had no problem in apparently leaving the twins alone there, and dashing back to the Tapas bar.
Exactly Miraflores!
I don't believe there were any children to see in 5A that night, explaining the hazy sightings (Matt) or romance (Gerry)

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by russiandoll on 06.03.12 15:27

Jean wrote:In my opinion, he was talking about the legs of the bed. He could only see the corner of the base or mattress. What a wonderful check he carried out - he didn't bother to see if Madeleine was actually in the bed!


yes he was, I agree. I re -read his RI 3 times, clearly got myself in a tizz and posted in a tizz-- when I should have reflected and used my common sense.

Reply "Nothing, apart from that, it's just the end of the bed and that's, and that was it. And so it as just like the outside corner, there was no, couldn't see the whole length, couldn't see colours or legs or anything draping over it".

I misread the above to mean legs draping over it or anything else draping over it....when legs stood alone in that sentence and I should have imagined a comma.
That will teach me to read in a hurry and post without engaging the grey matter properly.

So my sarcasm was not appropriate, apologies.
I just find so much confusing and not making sense ,that I guess by the stage I was when posting, my brain was addled and I presumed he was spouting more nonsense.

Please delete my comments if deemed inappropriate/offensive or just plain wrong .

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by russiandoll on 06.03.12 15:29

@worriedmum wrote:something doesn't feel right about this.......

MO says he's off to check his apt.................
then he says to the Mccanns 'I'll do yours'........................

He goes in.................

he either
a) can't see either bed OR
b) sees the nearest one is occupied OR
c)sees the nearest bed is empty and looks in the furthest one OR
d) sees the furthest one is occupied and goes away satisfied OR
e) sees both beds are empty and raises the alarm.......

but apparently does none of these?

I would go with that.....apparently did not do anything which would be logical given his offer to do this check.
I would suspect he was elsewhere, doing something else.

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unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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so did another apartment have two windows?

Post by worriedmum on 07.03.12 20:01

If MO said in his statement that there were two windows, could he have been confusing the room with another one? Do any of the OC apartments have two windows in them?

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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night

Post by Nina on 07.03.12 20:44

@worriedmum wrote:If MO said in his statement that there were two windows, could he have been confusing the room with another one? Do any of the OC apartments have two windows in them?

Yes, the sitting area of 5A has two windows, one behind the sofa and one by the end of the dining table. The kitcen area then has one. The whole kitchen/lounge/diner then has the patio windows/doors.

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