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Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
Ollie on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:13 pm
Just what and how did Matt Oldfield check the McCann children on the alleged abduction night?
MO said in his statement that he couldn't see Madeleine in her bed. Why not? Madeleines bed was by the bedroom door, he would have had an unobscured view of her bed. But he could clearly see the twins breathing in their cots, which were further away and would of been obscured by the sides of the cots. IMO implausible.
According to the McCanns Madeleine had already been abducted by the time of MOs check so the bed would of been empty, and I believe the cots were empty, one of the nannies said in her statement that the twins were not in their cots when the alarm was raised. So imo the twins were not in the room when MO checked, they were put back in there when the PJ were called. So MO was checking an empty room!
So either he didn't do the check or he was supposed to raise the alarm, perhaps he didn't because things were not set up, the curtains and window were still closed, the shutters weren't forced open. IMO something stopped the scene from being set up properly earlier, when GM was making his check.
KM shouting that 'they had taken her, we've let her down', I think this was panic because of what they were doing. Even well rehearsed actors get their lines wrong and they have a written script!
MO said in his statement that he couldn't see Madeleine in her bed. Why not? Madeleines bed was by the bedroom door, he would have had an unobscured view of her bed. But he could clearly see the twins breathing in their cots, which were further away and would of been obscured by the sides of the cots. IMO implausible.
According to the McCanns Madeleine had already been abducted by the time of MOs check so the bed would of been empty, and I believe the cots were empty, one of the nannies said in her statement that the twins were not in their cots when the alarm was raised. So imo the twins were not in the room when MO checked, they were put back in there when the PJ were called. So MO was checking an empty room!
So either he didn't do the check or he was supposed to raise the alarm, perhaps he didn't because things were not set up, the curtains and window were still closed, the shutters weren't forced open. IMO something stopped the scene from being set up properly earlier, when GM was making his check.
KM shouting that 'they had taken her, we've let her down', I think this was panic because of what they were doing. Even well rehearsed actors get their lines wrong and they have a written script!
Ollie- Posts: 223
Join date: 2011-05-22
Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
rainbow-fairy on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:24 pm
Wasn't it Gerry, in his statement, or a statement, who said 'The twins were taken back to their own apartment'? This suggests to me that the children were all being minded elsewhere. 5A was then used as the abduction 'stage' and the twins placed there 'for appearences' only -then back to where they really were.
____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras
Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.
NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.
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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
Gillyspot on Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:44 pm
It was impossible for Matthew to see one of the twins "breathing" without going into the room - Then he must have been able to see Madeleine also.
Showing the NON see through end to the cots & Madeleine's bed
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg
Showing the NON see through end to the cots & Madeleine's bed
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg
____________________
Kate McCann "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances"
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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
Ollie on Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:01 pm
[quote="Gillyspot"]It was impossible for Matthew to see one of the twins "breathing" without going into the room - Then he must have been able to see Madeleine also.
Showing the NON see through end to the cots & Madeleine's bed
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg[/quote]
Thanks for posting that Gillyspot. So MO would have had to go over to the cot on the right and looked down at the twin to see that he/she was breathing.
Also strange that by this time according to the McCanns Madeleine had been abducted, but in her bewk nothing is mentioned about the check by MO except a cheery line about everythings ok. If that were me I'm afraid I would of let rip in my book that my friend had let me down as he obviously had not done the check properly, the alarm could of gone out earlier that Madeleine was missing, but nothing in the bewk. But of course KM has saved all her vindictiveness for Goncalo Amaral.
IMO there are two conclusions:
1. Matt Oldfield went to the apartment not to check but to raise the alarm.
2. Matt Oldfield did not do a check, maybe didn't even go to the McCanns apartment.
Showing the NON see through end to the cots & Madeleine's bed
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P1/01_VOLUME_Ia_Page_15.jpg[/quote]
Thanks for posting that Gillyspot. So MO would have had to go over to the cot on the right and looked down at the twin to see that he/she was breathing.
Also strange that by this time according to the McCanns Madeleine had been abducted, but in her bewk nothing is mentioned about the check by MO except a cheery line about everythings ok. If that were me I'm afraid I would of let rip in my book that my friend had let me down as he obviously had not done the check properly, the alarm could of gone out earlier that Madeleine was missing, but nothing in the bewk. But of course KM has saved all her vindictiveness for Goncalo Amaral.
IMO there are two conclusions:
1. Matt Oldfield went to the apartment not to check but to raise the alarm.
2. Matt Oldfield did not do a check, maybe didn't even go to the McCanns apartment.
Last edited by Ollie on Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added a sentence)
Ollie- Posts: 223
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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
russiandoll on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:22 pm
Can anyone confirm which side the door was hinged? Diagrams I have seen indicate it is hinged on the right -hand side and so opens in the direction of the front door, not towards the foot of the bed Madeleine was allegedly sleeping in.......so why on earth would he not just pop his head around to the left, just inside the door frame, he would easily have seen the child sleeping there[ if there of course].
It is nonsense to me that an adult who had offered to check on the 3 children would not look at the one in the bed........checking that she was not too warm or cold and adjusting sheets for example.
makes no sense at all.
check/CHek/
Verb:
Examine (something) in order to determine its accuracy, quality, or condition, or to detect the presence of something.
how can you check the condition of a child if you cannot see him or her?
so there was no noise..and this supposedly intelligent man concluded
Maddie was in her bed
Maddie was sleeping soundly.
but this could have happened:
she had got out of bed and tripped over furniture [ she could have been lying on the far side of the cots, next to the bed under the window, having tried to make contact with her siblings] or this:
she could have wandered into her parents room and been asleep in there.
he did not see her anywhere in that apartment.
probably because she was not there.
the one night he should have been thorough.....he was not.
the one night there was an abduction, one of the party of friends is walking up the road at the very same time the abductor is crossing the street,
now what is the mathematical probability of these 2 things happening, let alone one of them?
It is nonsense to me that an adult who had offered to check on the 3 children would not look at the one in the bed........checking that she was not too warm or cold and adjusting sheets for example.
makes no sense at all.
check/CHek/
Verb:
Examine (something) in order to determine its accuracy, quality, or condition, or to detect the presence of something.
how can you check the condition of a child if you cannot see him or her?
so there was no noise..and this supposedly intelligent man concluded
Maddie was in her bed
Maddie was sleeping soundly.
but this could have happened:
she had got out of bed and tripped over furniture [ she could have been lying on the far side of the cots, next to the bed under the window, having tried to make contact with her siblings] or this:
she could have wandered into her parents room and been asleep in there.
he did not see her anywhere in that apartment.
probably because she was not there.
the one night he should have been thorough.....he was not.
the one night there was an abduction, one of the party of friends is walking up the road at the very same time the abductor is crossing the street,
now what is the mathematical probability of these 2 things happening, let alone one of them?
____________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy
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which bed did MO expect to see Madeleine in?
worriedmum on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:05 pm
If there were two beds in the room, how did MO know which one he was supposed to check? The one by the window looks rumpled-up and would be the easiest to take a child through the window from. But the other one, which looks very neat to me, has the blanket and toy on? The thing that seems odd to me is that the one that is furthest away from the door and seems to be partially screened by cots, and nearest the window is more difficult to see than I would have thought the one on the left as you go in......thinking aloud here .... but I think he says all the children were asleep.....
Is it possible Madeleine got into the rumpled bed? Was any DNA found in it? Was MO too shocked to admit he'd looked at the wrong bed when he was checking?
Is it possible Madeleine got into the rumpled bed? Was any DNA found in it? Was MO too shocked to admit he'd looked at the wrong bed when he was checking?
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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
russiandoll on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:20 pm
unbelievable, but this is what was said by MO in his RI :
Reply "Erm, and there's another bed along here, which is where Madeleine was supposed to be, erm, and you could just maybe catch the, it was probably set back a little bit, so you could just sort of catch about sort of six or eight inches of the, so you could see the outside corner, the corner deepest into the room".
4078 "Okay. So concentrate, if you can, on what you saw of that bed and tell me what you saw?"
Reply "Nothing, apart from that, it's just the end of the bed and that's, and that was it. And so it as just like the outside corner, there was no, couldn't see the whole length, couldn't see colours or legs or anything draping over it".
4078 "Did it have bed clothing on it, can you remember, or was it just a plain mattress or some sort of mattress cover or (inaudible), can you remember?"
Reply "Erm, my, erm, this would be sort of a guess, I think what I could see was a sheet and I think it was a metal base coming round the corner, but I couldn't swear to that. There was only a small bit that was visible".
4078 "Okay".
Reply "I don't think it was a bare, a bare mattress, I'm fairly sure there'd have been a sheet on it, but I don't remember anything sort of as bulky as a duvet over it".
4078 "Okay. And is there anything else you can say about what you saw of that bed?"
Reply "No, erm, I don't remember there being a pattern on it, it was, it was just sort of a glimpse and I don't know how reliable my memory is for this, I think it was plain coloured, maybe, if I was to go for it, I'd say it was sort of a light blue, but I really don't recall anything specific about the end of that bed, apart from just registering that there was a bed against that wall and that's probably where Madeleine was".
ABOUT THE SORT OF LEGS SORT OF DRAPING OVER IT...........HE WAS NOT SORT OF REFERRING TO THE SORT OF LEGS OF THE BED WAS HE. HE MUST HAVE BEEN SORT OF REFERRING TO A PERSON'S LEGS.....
JUST HOW TALL WAS MADELEINE THAT HE MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED TO SEE HER SORT OF LEGS, IF HER SORT OF HEAD WAS ON THE SORT OF PILLOW WHERE YOU WOULD SORT OF EXPECT IT UP AT THE HEAD OF THE BED.
WAS SHE SORT OF 6 FT 6?
sorry for the sarcasm......how would he have seen a child's legs if he did not look into the room? the whole thing is rubbish.
Reply "Erm, and there's another bed along here, which is where Madeleine was supposed to be, erm, and you could just maybe catch the, it was probably set back a little bit, so you could just sort of catch about sort of six or eight inches of the, so you could see the outside corner, the corner deepest into the room".
4078 "Okay. So concentrate, if you can, on what you saw of that bed and tell me what you saw?"
Reply "Nothing, apart from that, it's just the end of the bed and that's, and that was it. And so it as just like the outside corner, there was no, couldn't see the whole length, couldn't see colours or legs or anything draping over it".
4078 "Did it have bed clothing on it, can you remember, or was it just a plain mattress or some sort of mattress cover or (inaudible), can you remember?"
Reply "Erm, my, erm, this would be sort of a guess, I think what I could see was a sheet and I think it was a metal base coming round the corner, but I couldn't swear to that. There was only a small bit that was visible".
4078 "Okay".
Reply "I don't think it was a bare, a bare mattress, I'm fairly sure there'd have been a sheet on it, but I don't remember anything sort of as bulky as a duvet over it".
4078 "Okay. And is there anything else you can say about what you saw of that bed?"
Reply "No, erm, I don't remember there being a pattern on it, it was, it was just sort of a glimpse and I don't know how reliable my memory is for this, I think it was plain coloured, maybe, if I was to go for it, I'd say it was sort of a light blue, but I really don't recall anything specific about the end of that bed, apart from just registering that there was a bed against that wall and that's probably where Madeleine was".
ABOUT THE SORT OF LEGS SORT OF DRAPING OVER IT...........HE WAS NOT SORT OF REFERRING TO THE SORT OF LEGS OF THE BED WAS HE. HE MUST HAVE BEEN SORT OF REFERRING TO A PERSON'S LEGS.....
JUST HOW TALL WAS MADELEINE THAT HE MIGHT HAVE EXPECTED TO SEE HER SORT OF LEGS, IF HER SORT OF HEAD WAS ON THE SORT OF PILLOW WHERE YOU WOULD SORT OF EXPECT IT UP AT THE HEAD OF THE BED.
WAS SHE SORT OF 6 FT 6?
sorry for the sarcasm......how would he have seen a child's legs if he did not look into the room? the whole thing is rubbish.
____________________
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy
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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
anil39200 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:35 pm
Please correct me if I am wrong but is this chap not supposed to be trained to look for details as a medical professional? 
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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:39 pm
In my opinion, he was talking about the legs of the bed. He could only see the corner of the base or mattress. What a wonderful check he carried out - he didn't bother to see if Madeleine was actually in the bed!
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The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.
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Re: Matt Oldfields check on abduction the night
worriedmum on Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:41 pm
Yes that sounds so casual, especially in the circumstances.
But how DO the two beds compare for DNA traces of Madeleine?
But how DO the two beds compare for DNA traces of Madeleine?
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