The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™

Gerry McCann: ''I strongly believe in Freedom of Speech...I don't have a problem with somebody purporting a theory...''

.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Robert Jay, QC: Unless the Prime Minister ordered the review by the Metropolitan Police, the Sun would put the Home Secretary, Theresa May, on the front page until the Sun's demands were met?...João Tavares, PJ: "For each lead that was explored to no avail, the closer we have come to the truth"...Kate McCann: “Adam Tudor and his colleague Isabel Hudson (Carter-Ruck) continue to do a vast amount of work for us, without payment, most of it quietly behind the scenes”......McCann's libel lawyer, Isabel Duarte: “Every one of the books sold will increase the amount of damages that we will be seeking from Gonçalo Amaral.”.......McCann's lawyer, Edward Smethurst: “We are currently demanding €1.2 million in damages, but we are reserving the right to increase this value as soon as we can ascertain what profits have been generated from the sale of this book”......Gonçalo Amaral: "For the McCanns to ask for the process to be reopened, all it would take is a letter to the prosecutor...it costs them nothing, just the stamp on the letter."....The McCann's libel lawyer, Isabel Duarte, has finally complied with the superior court ruling to return Gonçalo Amaral's books.....The McCann couple or their Tapas friends could force the reopening of the process if they would do the reconstruction....In 2007 British Ambassador Alexander W. Ellis admitted that the British Police had developed evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann.....Assistant Chief Constable for Leicestershire police: “While one or both of the McCanns may be innocent there is no clear evidence that eliminates them from involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance.”....Carter-Ruck's costs in the case of McCanns v Bennett exceed £120,000 already.....Quote of the day in this multi-million pound review that has, so far, taken a year - DCI Andy Redwood: “We are working on the basis of two possibilities here: one is that Madeleine is still alive; and the second that she is sadly dead"...Portuguese and Spanish Police claim the news about the latest timely Maddie 'sighting' in Spain is completely false.....Martin Brunt: "I guess we can expect more of this (new 'sighting' in Spain) as the fifth anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance approaches."...British police confident of breakthrough as fifth anniversary of Maddie's disappearance looms.......Francisco Moita Flores: "Scotland Yard has made another two million pounds available to search for Maddie McCann"....Gonçalo Amaral: "Elements from the Scotland Yard have been working with an investigative PJ team from Oporto, and what is known is that the “affair” is not going well for the McCanns.".....Scotland Yard dismisses work done by the private agency “Método” 3 hired by the McCann couple.....Gonçalo Amaral: "There is going to be news in the upcoming days...At the end of all this someone will reimburse me for all the wicked actions taken against me...then I will tell the rest."........Kate McCann's lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu: "If you were Portuguese, this would be enough to put you in prison.".....Gonçalo Amaral: “This litigation will carry a heavy price – but I have faith that the mystery will be resolved. Even if I “disappear” in the process - as Kate McCann has written that she wishes I would in her book - I have a daughter and lots of friends who will make sure justice is done”...Lady Margaret Hodge's nephew, Philip Edmonds, claimed that on 3 May 2007 Madeleine was captured on a photo, together with his three boys. Despite the immense value this might have had in settling arguments about Madeleine's movements on 3 May, neither he nor the McCanns ever produced it....Martin Grime: "Not all the alert signals have been investigated by the appropriate agencies in order to provide forensic comparations, in spite of indications to the contrary.".....British criminal profiler NPIA, Lee Rainbow: "Madeleine's father was the last one to see her alive. The family is a lead that should be followed. Contradictions in Gerald McCann's statements might lead us to suspect a homicide."...Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent: "The crucial part of the evidence appears to be a complete match of Madeleine's DNA in the boot of the hire car"...Inspector Ricardo Paiva: "It was Scotland Yard who first thought it could be a murder case."......Inspector Steve Bentley, NSY: "You state that you have a first hand information from an insider from the McCann's private investigators. This information would obviously be of interest to the team and they would welcome details of this individual...".......Gonçalo Amaral: "I would be willing to fly to London to speak with officers doing the review to assist them."....Philomena McCann: "Gordon Brown set things in motion at the start.".....Molly: "There is no evidence of a break-in yet the couple are still free to tell the world that there was one and they can do this unchallenged.".....Gerry McCann: "I think certainly there's been remarkably few child abductions since Madeleine was taken and I think people are more aware.".....Kate and Gerry McCann urge Prime Minister to save 'no win, no fee' for libel cases......Brian Kennedy, the McCanns multi-millionaire benefactor, pledged on his website to meet ALL the growing costs of 'Team McCann', so why do Kate and Gerry keep appealing to the public for donations?....Cadaver dogs used in Suzanne Pilley murder probe ... Gilroy found guilty despite no body, no murder weapon and no forensic evidence.....Portuguese Judge orders McCanns to immediately return Gonçalo Amaral's books so they may be sold......Gonçalo Amaral: "The key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, on the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started.".....Gonçalo Amaral: "The British priest staged everything."....Hugging Maddie's treasured Cuddle Cat after she washed it, anguished Kate McCann told Rachael Bletchly of The People on 5 August 2007 that she could no longer smell her daughter's scent on the toy.

.........................................................................................................................................................................................B Did Jim Gamble Sanitize Gerry McCann's CATS File 19309?   *   Barbara Nottage: "How did the alleged abductor snatch Madeleine in a time slot of no more than 3-4 Minutes?   *  Why did Kate McCann tell the Leveson Inquiry, under oath, that no bodily fluids were found in their hire car?   *  Why did Gerry McCann tell the Leveson Inquiry, under oath, that he strongly believes in freedom of speech and doesn't have a problem with anybody purporting a theory when he is instructing Carter-Ruck to take legal action to silence those who purport a theory based on the official Portuguese police files?   *  When referring to Robert Murat's arguido status why does Kate McCann state in her book that his 'formal status meant he would officially be treated as a suspect in the crime' but at the Leveson Inquiry the McCanns refer to their own arguido status, under oath, as merely meaning 'persons of interest'?     *    Why did Kate McCann take Maddie's Cuddle Cat toy to work and place it in contact with 6 dead bodies before taking it on holiday?  * Why don't the McCanns advertise on their website or Facebook page that they have a £2.6 million pound reward for the safe return of Maddie?   *   Why did the McCanns allow the investigation to be shelved then complain that no police force is looking for Maddie?  *  Why hasn't Dr David Payne or Dr Gerry McCann sued Dr Katherina Gaspar for suggesting in her statement to the police that they are paedophiles? * Why has Gerry McCann got a registration number of 19309 in the child abuse CATS system?   *   Why won't the McCanns write to the Portuguese Prosecutor to reopen the process when all it will cost them, according to Gonçalo Amaral, is the stamp on the letter?   *  Why did the McCanns lie about Maddie's coloboma for 4 years?    *    Why is the date 2006 seen on Maddie's Online Shop when she disappeared in 2007?    *    Why did Gerry McCann say, on the airport bus, that he wasn't in Portugal to enjoy himself?   *    Maddie's Fund was created just 7 full working days after she 'disappeared' - how did the McCanns know so early on that she wouldn't be found soon?   *   Why does the Leicester police website link to the McCanns Fraudulent Fund when they are still uncleared prime suspects in hiding their daughters dead body?   *  Why did Maddie's pink blanket and Gerry's blue tennis bag disappear after the PJ photographed them?   *   Why did the McCanns wash the curtains behind the sofa in the holiday apartment when they'd only been there for a week? * Why did the McCanns delete all their text messages and phone records the night Maddie disappeared?  *  Eddie barks to alert to cadaver and Keela freezes at the source of blood - what are the chances of two separate, highly-trained, independent working dogs both alerting to the exact same area, and both of them being wrong?   *  If the McCanns claim they never called their daughter Maddie why did they allow the name Maddie to be printed on the inflatable billboard that they had transported from Scotland to Praia da Luz that advertised the £1.5 million reward?   *  McCanns P.I. Kevin Halligen squandered £500,000 of the Fund money on high living and, although he's currently in prison for unrelated $2million fraud charges, why didn't the McCanns sue him?  *  If Kate McCann was "certain" Maddie had been "murdered" (page 296, para 3 of her Carter-Ruck approved book) surely that means the whole issue of fundraising has been a massive lie?    *   Why did Rachael Oldfield say in her Rogatory Interview: "If Madeleine had accidentally been bumped on the head" rather than "If Madeleine had accidentally bumped her head" before going on to say that there were plenty of people there who could have tried to revive a child?   *   Why did the McCanns keep dirty nappies and rotting meat in the boot of their hire car and does that mean that the dogs' alerts behind the sofa and in the wardrobe in their holiday apartment aswell as outside on the verandah and in the flower bed were also dirty nappies and rotting meat?.......Why did the McCanns pay £37,000 for the FindMadeleine.com website?   * How did a corrupt police officer like Antonio Giménez Raso, currently in prison for fraud, end up working as a lead investigator for the McCanns?.....Why did Philomena McCann tell Martin Brunt that Kate McCann was going to be charged with Madeleine's accidental death if Madeleine was abducted?............................................................   

.....................................................................................................................................Martin Brunt: "There are 30 Met officers - the equivalent of a murder squad - working on the review and I'm told that a senior officer is having to give regular spending updates to the Home Office which is funding an operation that will cost several million and last many months."....Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'.....Manuel Catriano: "This story did not begin in the Ocean Club, but in London where the 'official truth' was conspired and established: an English girl was kidnapped in the Algarve."....Gonçalo Amaral: "Dr Katherina Gaspar witnesses a scene with David Payne and Gerry McCann which flabbergasts her and makes her fear for the safety of her daughter and the other children"....Gonçalo Amaral: " I have understood their game. The McCanns knew that I was going to catch them. So the game is always the same. We want to catch them, they want to escape, and that's it. Sometimes the bandits win, sometimes the policemen do."....Gonçalo Amaral: "Under the old Penal Process, how do I ask Kate: "Are you lying when you say you didn't touch the window? As a matter of fact, it was you who opened the window. We have material evidence of that. A question like this forces the constitution of arguido...".....Tony Bennett: "The Madeleine Foundation has now sent a 32-page letter and a bundle of supporting evidence to the Scotland Yard 'Maddie Case' Review Team".............Gonçalo Amaral: "The little girl died in the apartment. Everything is in the book, which is faithful to the investigation until September: it reflects the understanding of the Portuguese and the English police and of the Public Ministry. For all of us until then the concealment of the cadaver, the simulation of abduction and the exposure or abandonment were proved."...Gonçalo Amaral: "For the McCanns to ask for the process to be reopened, all it would take is a letter to the prosecutor...it costs them nothing, just the stamp on the letter."...Gonçalo Amaral: "The investigation will be concluded, it will be reopened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want."...Gonçalo Amaral: "There are hundreds of indications, clues regarding a certain event; and it is that event that some people do not accept and want to conceal."...Kate Healy was not immediately made an arguida, but merely interviewed voluntarily as a witness. Only after her interview was she made an arguida, that is, after she was confronted with concrete facts that might lead to her incrimination."...Gonçalo Amaral: "If the McCanns admit that their daughter is dead, they can no longer collect money from the Maddie fund, and that's a lot of money, over one million pounds. That's why they say that the girl was abducted."...Kate McCann: "This pair (Carter Ruck lawyers) continue to do a vast amount of work for us, without payment, most of it quietly behind the scenes."...Gonçalo Amaral: "Nowadays I have no doubts left, the archival for various reasons, was mainly due to political pressures made by the English - I have no doubts about that."...Gonçalo Amaral: "I remind you that they demanded the archiving of the process, in 2008, when they were arguidos, merely to defend their image. They are not interested in the reopening of the process or of the investigation"...Gonçalo Amaral: "It's too big and too serious a burden to be concealed by so many people for their entire lives."...Gonçalo Amaral: "Let's remember it is totally logical to find Madeleine's DNA in the home, but absolutely not in a car rented more than twenty days after her disappearance."...Tony Bennett: "The question is: exactly what is it about Madeleine's disappearance that caused such a massive level of government activity, including MI5 and secret service type groups like Control Risks Group, to become involved, and so quickly and in such large numbers? Was it to help find a missing child? Or to locate an abductor?...Martin Grime: "My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant."...Gonçalo Amaral: "If the body had been buried there would have been mummification. The fact that there were fluids points to refrigeration."...Dr Vernon Coleman: "Would you hire the McCanns as babysitters?"...Gonçalo Amaral: "there were gestures and words indicating the existence of a child molester within that group of people"...Jose Barra da Costa, PJ: "There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of..."...Justine McGuiness: "We were a bit naughty because we did have messages coming out of the police station which we weren't supposed to..."...C443 J.N. HUGHES: Background Information- Gerald McCANN - A search of the local section of the child abuse shows a registration number 19309 in the CATS system....Dr Katherina Gaspar: "I remember Dave telling Gerry something like “she”, referring to Madeleine, “would do this”.. While he mentioned the word 'this', David was doing the action of sucking one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, while with his other hand he was doing a circle around his nipple. I remember being shocked by that."...Sofia Leal: “My husband and I have never abandoned our daughters, or allowed paedophiles in our circle of friends. I am shocked that a couple who affirm to be religious is seeking out to destroy our family”...Gerry McCann: "There's no evidence that Madeleine is dead and there's no evidence to implicate us in her death"...

....................................................Why do the McCanns tell blatant lies and change their stories then threaten to sue those who question them?  *  Why did Gerry McCann say in his original statement that he used the front door with a key, then changed it in his second statement to the patio door which was unlocked?   *  Why did the McCanns transport rotting meat and dirty nappies to the tip in their car when there were bins nearby?  *  Why did the dogs only signal at the McCanns apartment, clothes and car?     *   Why didn't Kate have the twins checked if she thought they'd been sedated by the abductor?   *   Why did the McCanns tell the media the PJ had offered them a deal when the PJ can't offer deals?  *   Why were old photographs of Maddie released first when Kate had the latest photo on her camara?   *     Why was the Fund named after a police manual? * Why did Kate say the window had been jemmied when it hadn't?   * Why were the only fingerprints on the window found to be Kates? * Why did the McCanns make excuses for the cadaver scent and bodily fluids found in their hire car? *  Just what was Robert Murat's role in the Madeleine McCann disappearance? * John McCann gave up his job to be a director of the Fund - how did he know Maddie wouldn't be found that day? * Why did Clarence Mitchell give up a well paid job and pension to take up a PR job that might only last a few days? * Just how many false names are the McCanns allowing on their petition? *  Who torched Sergei Malinka's car? * Who killed Goncalo Amaral's dog? * Why did our government try to make the McCanns Fund into a charity? * What did Maddie's disappearance have to do with The Chancellor, Gordon Brown? * Why did the McCanns claim to be devout catholics when Kate's mother said they weren't? * Why did the McCanns allow the sabotage of the crime scene? * Why did the McCanns refuse to co-operate with the investigation? * Why did Kate refuse to answer 48 questions that may have helped find Maddie? * Why did the McCanns refuse to take part in an official police reconstruction but then made a tv documentary? *  Will other children, like Shannon Matthews, be at risk of copycat faked abductions?   *
.......................................Gerry McCann: "Find the body and prove we killed her"....David Payne: "We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else's business"...David Payne: “We know they didn’t do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."...Clarence Mitchell: "There is a wholly innocent explanation for any material the police may or may not have found"...Clarence Mitchell: "Kate and Gerry are not responsible for Madeleine`s death"...Clarence Mitchell: "What goes on the internet has not been sanctioned by Kate and Gerry."...Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa: "There is one piece of stand alone evidence."...Michael Wright: "I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins’ nappies. I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill."...Eileen McCann: "If someone lifted her out of bed Madeleine would have screamed the place down. That girl could throw a tantrum if she wanted to"...Clarence Mitchell: “Anybody who has given money to help find Madeleine need have no fear that their money is being spent on lawyers fees or anything like that.”...Clarence Mitchell: "Just put money into an envelope and send it to Kate and Gerry McCann, Rothley, it'll get there"........Kate McCann: "Rome is preparing itself for our visit."...Susan Healy: "Kate said last night 'If I weighed another two stone, had a bigger bosom and looked more maternal, people would be more sympathetic."...Kate McCann: "Be brave, sweetheart."...Martin Brunt: "We all thought they were a chavvy family from some estate in Essex who weren't looking after their children properly but the fact that these were two middle-aged, middle-income or, even high-income professionals, doctors, it did rather take on a different hue."...Carlos Anjos: "If that situation had been of an abduction, it would have been terrible for the child. Because if that child were to be sold, or something else... She was as good as... it was her death sentence. That situation, that day, advertising that photo, was simply the death sentence of that child."...Gerry McCann: "The iris is Madeleine’s only true distinctive feature. Certainly we thought it was possible that this could potentially hurt her or her abductor might do something to her eye.… But in terms of marketing, it was a good ploy.”...Clarence Mitchell: "If she's dead then she's dead, but not by their hand"...Kate McCann: "My struggle to control 'very difficult' Madeleine"...Question 41 to Kate McCann: "Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?"...Maddie McCann: "Why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"...Kate McCann: "...that means that, you know, she must have fallen back asleep very quickly, errm... and then she moved on… you know, she moved on."...Kate McCann: "I don't want to dwell on it too much."...Kate McCann:"When lunchtime came, Gerry and I were in the middle of another meeting when we discovered there was no one around to collect Sean and Amelie. We had to interrupt proceedings and go to the Toddler Club ourselves"...Maria Bandeirinha: “Kate passed by my door, laughing her head off, with a friend, days after her daughter disappeared. What mother has a child in an unknown location and feels like laughing?"...Kate McCann: "Well, it was our holiday too"....Kate McCann: "It's funny, we were having such a good time. We were with our friends and their kids. I think cos there was a group of us, you're just into each other, d'you know what I mean"...Gerry McCann: "If Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment – why would that be our fault?"...Kate McCann: "It was so dark...it was dark, erm I've never had such a long night it was dark and you're just praying for the light you know to come up to get out there..."...Rachael Oldfield: "I didn’t really like going up there by myself, it was, like going through that car park was quite dark and there was never anyone around, it was a bit, you know made me feel a bit uneasy”...Kate McCann: "I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."...Kate McCann: "I can't stop thinking about Madeleine, about her fear of pain"...Kate McCann: "Whoever Madeleine's with she'll be giving them her tuppence worth."...Kate McCann's diary: "Gerry put on another great performance"...Daily Express reporter: "She and husband Gerry burst into laughter as they promoted her book about their lost daughter Madeleine."....Gerry McCann: "Ask the dogs, Sandra."...Gerry McCann: "It wasn't as bad as the night we found her..."...Gerry McCann: "Nothing of value was taken the night Madeleine disappeared"....Gerry McCann to Ed Smart: "Ed, I would not be surprised if they, you know, don't plant evidence in the car, you know, to have them think that there's DNA in this car that I rented after the fact is just outrageous, and what could they possibly have?"....Dave Edgar: "Maddie is in a secret lair in a lawless village in PDL"...Donal MacIntyre: Maddie's abductor cleaned the apartment, after a rehearsal, leaving no DNA...Gerry McCann: "My plan was to stay quiet and not answer."...John McCann: "It's not bad for a bunch of amateurs"...Moita Flores: "I have no doubts that the child died. Who knows, one day a fishing net will pick up a bag with a child's bones in it."...PJ Case Files: "Between 15h00 on August 4th 2007 and 06h30 on August 5th 2007, the following samples were recovered in the living room of apartment 5A at the OCEAN CLUB where a murder probably took place.".....Gonçalo Amaral: "The priests also know very well what happened that night.”...Gonçalo Amaral: "I receive a phone call from Sofia, who insists on my going home: our Shitzu dog is dead. She found it that morning, lifeless on the ground, with a head injury."...Dr Paulo Sargento: "Gonçalo Amaral is the visible target the McCanns want to take down"....Portuguese AG, Fernando Pinto Monteiro: "One way or another the McCanns were responsible for their child's death."...Gonçalo Amaral: “There are things that I haven’t said yet”...Gonçalo Amaral: "I am not shutting up"...........

What was 5A really used for?

The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Welcome :: Debate Section - for purporting theories

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post  candyfloss on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:23 pm

I don't judge anyone Daisy, and try to be fair to everyone here. I am all for people having their say, but sometimes, bringing up things from the past is not a good idea, as it only serves to inflame things again. Any concerns please pm me.

_______________________________________________

PR = Parental Responsibility



candyfloss
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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post  Daisy on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:43 pm

candyfloss wrote:I don't judge anyone Daisy, and try to be fair to
everyone here. I am all for people having their say, but sometimes,
bringing up things from the past is not a good idea, as it only serves
to inflame things again. Any concerns please pm me.


It wasn't directed at you candyfloss, you have always been more than fair & balanced. I'm just aware that everyone's not like you. So please do delete these last few posts for the sake of peace.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post  Hummingbird on Wed May 09, 2012 1:27 pm

Hello everyone! Firstly sorry to bring this topic up again! Second, I am very new to this site and very nervous so bear with me please. I have followed this case from day one and have always had grave doubts about the abduction theory. Anyway having spent hours reading this particular thread I am astounded by what I have seen, new information I have not seen anywhere before and it has always been my belief that this apartment was not used as a lovely holiday home!! The one thing that I have always wanted to question is this (& I apologise if this has been done before) Mrs Fenn states that the crying stopped when the parents came home and she knew they had come home because she heard the patio doors open and close. How does she know 'someone' walked in to the apartment and NOT out of it! Just because the patio doors were opened and closed doesn't mean someone entered it! It conjures up some pretty horrific thoughts but I have to ask as it has been playing on my mind for so long. I am of the belief that all of the children were never, not even once left alone and that each night one of the adults would take their turn at staying with them all in one room. Trouble is why was one child apparently alone and crying in 5A on the Tuesday night?
As for the so called only one toothbrush between 3 children tale I do not believe it for one minute. Those children were apparently bathed every night and in bed by 7.30 yet they only had one toothbrush between them? Only one toothbrush in apartment 5A me thinks.
Finally, I remember reading that KM used to brush Madeleine's hair at bed time so where was the hairbrush when her DNA was required?
Again I am sorry if this is stuff that has been gone over many times before, as I say I am new here and am just trying to get answers to the few things that I cannot find answers too.


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In/out

Post  Portia on Wed May 09, 2012 3:21 pm

Hummingbird wrote:Hello everyone! Firstly sorry to bring this topic up again! Second, I am very new to this site and very nervous so bear with me please. I have followed this case from day one and have always had grave doubts about the abduction theory. Anyway having spent hours reading this particular thread I am astounded by what I have seen, new information I have not seen anywhere before and it has always been my belief that this apartment was not used as a lovely holiday home!! The one thing that I have always wanted to question is this (& I apologise if this has been done before) Mrs Fenn states that the crying stopped when the parents came home and she knew they had come home because she heard the patio doors open and close. How does she know 'someone' walked in to the apartment and NOT out of it! Just because the patio doors were opened and closed doesn't mean someone entered it! It conjures up some pretty horrific thoughts but I have to ask as it has been playing on my mind for so long. I am of the belief that all of the children were never, not even once left alone and that each night one of the adults would take their turn at staying with them all in one room. Trouble is why was one child apparently alone and crying in 5A on the Tuesday night?
As for the so called only one toothbrush between 3 children tale I do not believe it for one minute. Those children were apparently bathed every night and in bed by 7.30 yet they only had one toothbrush between them? Only one toothbrush in apartment 5A me thinks.
Finally, I remember reading that KM used to brush Madeleine's hair at bed time so where was the hairbrush when her DNA was required?
Again I am sorry if this is stuff that has been gone over many times before, as I say I am new here and am just trying to get answers to the few things that I cannot find answers too.



Hello Hummingbird!

I've asked the same question myself: apparently the patio doors were heard being closed; but no one looked if someone was actually entering or leaving. I see no reason at all, why it should be supposed that the crying ended with one or both of the parents coming in. There is not a shred of evidence to support this assumption. In fact, the parents have expressed their surprise that Maddy asked them why they hadn't come in when she was crying. This can only mean that they had not noticed she was or had been crying*.

If the crying sound was no longer heard after the doors closed, with someone leaving, that might well mean someone abruptly stifled the crying sound and left with the child. She might have been gagged, or her head might have been covered in something which did not let out any sounds. Or she could have been killed to shut her up. And then removed.

The sound appears to have stopped very suddenly. It has been remarked that a crying child usually sputters and hiccups for a while, but no mention of any additional sounds was made.

* or it could mean that the parents want us to believe that Maddie was alive to ask that question.

Portia

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post  Hummingbird on Wed May 09, 2012 3:57 pm

Portia wrote:
Hummingbird wrote:Hello everyone! Firstly sorry to bring this topic up again! Second, I am very new to this site and very nervous so bear with me please. I have followed this case from day one and have always had grave doubts about the abduction theory. Anyway having spent hours reading this particular thread I am astounded by what I have seen, new information I have not seen anywhere before and it has always been my belief that this apartment was not used as a lovely holiday home!! The one thing that I have always wanted to question is this (& I apologise if this has been done before) Mrs Fenn states that the crying stopped when the parents came home and she knew they had come home because she heard the patio doors open and close. How does she know 'someone' walked in to the apartment and NOT out of it! Just because the patio doors were opened and closed doesn't mean someone entered it! It conjures up some pretty horrific thoughts but I have to ask as it has been playing on my mind for so long. I am of the belief that all of the children were never, not even once left alone and that each night one of the adults would take their turn at staying with them all in one room. Trouble is why was one child apparently alone and crying in 5A on the Tuesday night?
As for the so called only one toothbrush between 3 children tale I do not believe it for one minute. Those children were apparently bathed every night and in bed by 7.30 yet they only had one toothbrush between them? Only one toothbrush in apartment 5A me thinks.
Finally, I remember reading that KM used to brush Madeleine's hair at bed time so where was the hairbrush when her DNA was required?
Again I am sorry if this is stuff that has been gone over many times before, as I say I am new here and am just trying to get answers to the few things that I cannot find answers too.



Hello Hummingbird!

I've asked the same question myself: apparently the patio doors were heard being closed; but no one looked if someone was actually entering or leaving. I see no reason at all, why it should be supposed that the crying ended with one or both of the parents coming in. There is not a shred of evidence to support this assumption. In fact, the parents have expressed their surprise that Maddy asked them why they hadn't come in when she was crying. This can only mean that they had not noticed she was or had been crying*.

If the crying sound was no longer heard after the doors closed, with someone leaving, that might well mean someone abruptly stifled the crying sound and left with the child. She might have been gagged, or her head might have been covered in something which did not let out any sounds. Or she could have been killed to shut her up. And then removed.

The sound appears to have stopped very suddenly. It has been remarked that a crying child usually sputters and hiccups for a while, but no mention of any additional sounds was made.

* or it could mean that the parents want us to believe that Maddie was alive to ask that question.



Portia, Thanks for that, I have always believed IF the crying incident is true the reason why it stopped was not because the parents arrived home, I have to believe something far more sinister was taking place and something happened (planned or not) to make the crying stop so quickly. I do not believe it would have just stopped 'just like that' as soon as Mummy & Daddy arrived home, in fact I think it would have continued for quite some time as the child by now was so distressed, the relief of her parents coming back would have actually made her cry more and she would have been heard saying things like 'Mummy where have you been?' and so on.
I have often wondered if this was the night that she possibly injured herself whilst roaming the apartment and trying to find her parents, and if so the crying would continue until she was unable to cry anymore, not because someone had left or entered the apartment. Perhaps GM & KM came in, never checked the children, went to bed and didn't realise anything was 'wrong' until the morning. Then as with every theory I come up with that would mean all three children were actually there alone and not being looked after all together with the other children in another apartment, like I think is the more likely scenario!!
This case has given me a permanent headache since day one!!

Hummingbird

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Location: Worcstershire

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post  monkey mind on Wed May 09, 2012 3:59 pm

Yup, could just as easily have been someone leaving rather than entering. As with much in this case we only have the word of G & K as to Maddie's question the next day, and I don't knowabout you but I personalyy prefer to take that with a dumpster of salt. In fact, we don't know there was no adult present whilst a child was crying, don't know that at all. Didn''t K make a flurry of six phone callls just before, between 10 and 10.30? And the crying allegedly started immediately after the last call. Where was she when she made those calls? No comment probably.

As for your other questions, I stand to be corrected here but I think that apparently as with the toothbrush, there was only one hairbrush between the 3 children also. Yawn. And her sandals as I recall were no good either as they were allegedly worn by her baby sister. Yawn. Hopefully someone can confirm this but some where amongst the reams of stuff I'm sure I read that. Which leads us to the question.....

Where were her trainers or shoes? She must have had a pair right, not just 1 pair of sandals for a whole week? Did she go to bed that night with her spare pair of shoes or trainers on? If that was all that was left I would have expected them to be taken by the police but don't recall their mention. And if they are not accounted for and that is the explanation, why did the *abductor* that JT is oh so certain she saw remove them?

monkey mind

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