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What was 5A really used for?

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by tigger on 20.01.12 10:47

@Praia wrote:Looks like the LP could have withheld it.
Mrs Fenn would have had her door knocked on that night like the Moyes and Wilkins. She would be the first call the police would make. Why not report the crying incident on the Tues.? Why wait til over a hundred days later to be seen by the PJ? Just when things are really hotting up, the dogs have been and gone.

I've wondered how soon the McCanns knew about the crying incident in order to shift the date and use it. Otherwise I'm still for a recording, I think Maddie wasn't alive on the 1st May, certainly not on the 2nd.

How soon was it used in the 'story?'
Early on it was a couple? just wanting a child.
Then one or two paedophiles? Working to order? This is where the crying was needed to show 'they' been in to drug the children, a dry run.
Then someone who would treat her as she deserved.
Then someone where Maddie would give her tuppence worth.
Then in someone's house?
Then over the border to Spain that same night?
I'm trying to work out the sequence of these scenarios as they entered the public domain. Pretty well all of them came from Kate, what did Gerry say?

Another thought about the crying episode, wasn't Murat caught looking at the files at the PJ? When he was there as a translator?
And how early came the testimony of Fiona Payne about Kate mentioning the crying on the 3rd?

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by jd on 20.01.12 10:54

And how early came the testimony of Fiona Payne about Kate mentioning the crying on the 3rd?

this came immediately from gerry and kate in the very first statement they made to the police. Imo said purposely for a reason

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 11:02

@Praia wrote:She was was around. Third week in August people are getting twitchy, they know results are due re. the dogs findings.
Abduction and negligence needs to back on the table, imo. Strange timing, that's all.

If she was around, that is absolutely astonishing. Words fail me in fact. How on earth did the PJ not manage to get a statement from her sooner?

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Praia on 20.01.12 11:10

Either they did and it is withheld or they did and she did not mention the crying.
I am still interested in why CT was questioned about another female member of the Fenn family who used the name Fenn. She was asked the names and where abouts of all the immediate family.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 20.01.12 11:16

you would at least have expected to find a clump of hairs in the bath plughole that would have gathered over a few days

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Praia on 20.01.12 11:21

The Telegraph on Aug. 20 2007 reports a massive operation about to get underway. Warrants were obtained for new searches re' a new suspect. ALL close witnesses were to be interviewed including Mrs Fenn. In this statement she talks of the crying incident.
Happily for the McCann's who are under pressure the media reort it has taken the PT until now to interview her. Not true, it is a re interview but it's a chance to berate the PJ.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Praia on 20.01.12 11:23

Yes upsydaisy Kate definitely says she washed her hair that night. The children's had to have been done in the last few days. Where are the hair samples?

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by tigger on 20.01.12 11:29

@jd wrote:
And how early came the testimony of Fiona Payne about Kate mentioning the crying on the 3rd?

this came immediately from gerry and kate in the very first statement they made to the police. Imo said purposely for a reason

Which only makes me more sure that they had a recording. That it got louder can be due to the fact that if one suffers a loud noise from neighbours, it seems to be perceived as louder than it actually is. This was the result of a study, decibels read and everything...

I hope I don't come over as bossy but:
There's a lot of new information thrown up in this topic.
Thinking of Gerry's famous quote: "One good thing to come out of all this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't."
I would like to add: there may be 'much information' but there are many of us!
Would it be a good idea if some of us chose a subject and traced just that? E.g. the crying or the type of abductor, or the sequence of abductors or the previous holidays or 2006.
Then the results could be put in just one post to avoid going off topic.
Every time I dive into the older topics, there's so much buried there! Confusion is good for Gerry and I don't want to give him what he wants.



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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 20.01.12 11:33

exactly!! IF madeleine or the twins were there, having baths every night as their routine suggests, I am not entirely sure that cleaners would pull out hairs from the drain every day, perhaps once a week, so there should have been hairs from all of them gathered there. If it was empty surely a question would be posed to the cleaners asking if they cleared the drains of hairs each visit and if not, then they must be lying and did not use the flat as they suggested as there would DEFINITELY be hairs in the drain! Incidentally and before I read this whole thread today, I had a dream about Kate and Gerry last night..... in the dream they were asking me to cut off my hairs so they could use it as a sample. I pinned up my hair and cut the underside at the back, about 3 inches long and I complained to them I had a big chunk of hair missing. In the dream I was reluctant to help them. I also dreamt that there was something hidden behind a wall, which was bricked up and papered over and someone, don't know who in the dream, said to me if I am looking for something that no-one wants me to find, to look behind this brick wall...... oooohh was so spooky I was a little freaked out and didn't get back to sleep for a while!!!

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 11:50

@Praia wrote:Yes upsydaisy Kate definitely says she washed her hair that night. The children's had to have been done in the last few days. Where are the hair samples?

The forensic reports leave out the bathroom and kitchen, I wonder why?

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Daisy on 20.01.12 12:06

@Praia wrote:Daisy I know exactly where Pamela Fenn used to live. I know exactly where the Moyes were.
I am commenting on her niece's statements not Pamela Fenn's!
Earlier today Stella said we were no nearer identifying the man CT saw leaving 5B the afternoon of May 3. This sighting was signaled out in the media as important. The PJ were criticised for not following it up.
I was highlighting the problems in CT statements ie on the top floor with an amazing sea view. The apt's on the first floor have an obscured view of the sea. The police asked her about the apt. layout, ceiling heights etc.
What is interesting is the query of a young Fenn family member.
Hope that clears things up, it is so hard to cover things online.

No sorry Praia, it doesn't clear things up. I've asked twice now for a source for your info that CT claimed her aunt might have had two properties. You come back with this ^. I've read carol Tramner's statement several times now, I even started a thread about it a couple of months back. Now, unless you're privvy to a different statement? then I don't see any of the things you claim CT said in that statement.

She did not claim her aunt lived on the very top - she said "the very last apartment" meaning the last one on the row. Nowhere does it state that her apt was penthouse style. Now others on here may be willing to play game with you, but unless you can give sources for your info, i'm about to bow out. My time is extremely precious to me at the moment (sick relatives to nurse) & I refuse to waste it going around in circles or following hoax leads.

Admin/mods, if you think I'm being too harsh or unfair, I would request that you read back through this thread to see what I'm trying to say before deleting my post.

Don't take my word for it, read the actual statement: http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROL_TRANMER.htm

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by jd on 20.01.12 12:22

Just reading through CT's statement and she says "We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence".......This suggests their apartment was up, but is her 'first floor' the ground floor or the actual first floor? Sounds like her first floor means the ground floor if they are opening the gate. Maybe she has mentioned being on the 2nd floor which to most is the top, but CT's 2nd floor is in reality the first floor! confused???

Also, "DC1485: 'Okay Carole. I have read your statement from the 8th of May, 2007, more or less one week after you saw the individual. It would be easier if you read the statement yourself and tell me if there is anything you want to add."....has this statement been released?

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 12:32

Daisy, Praia is bringing to our attention some very important issues here, we have clearly overlooked and they are very significant.

Praia did not actually say Mrs Fenn had two apartments, it was me who asked/suggested this, which we are still to confirm. I am reading Carole Tranmer's statement right now and she does not state that Mrs Fenn's apartment number was 5G. Strange don't you think?

Praia is from Portugal, the IP address confirms this and any help from that side is truly welcome.

We will just have to accept that sometimes, as we have seen in the past, individuals come forward to help us and it may not always be possible to have concrete proof. We are not going round in circles here. We are looking under all those stones that we have forgotten all about and being pointed in the right direction. I do not understand why you are getting so angry and making threats. No one is forcing you to read any material on here. If there is someone you feel you cannot accept what they have to say, just gloss over them. It is as simple as that. Trust me, I wish I could with quite a few posters on here, but being a Mod, sadly I'm unable to.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Daisy on 20.01.12 12:35

@jd wrote:Just reading through CT's statement and she says "We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence".......This suggests their apartment was up, but is her 'first floor' the ground floor or the actual first floor? Sounds like her first floor means the ground floor if they are opening the gate. Maybe she has mentioned being on the 2nd floor which to most is the top, but CT's 2nd floor is in reality the first floor! confused???

Also, "DC1485: 'Okay Carole. I have read your statement from the 8th of May, 2007, more or less one week after you saw the individual. It would be easier if you read the statement yourself and tell me if there is anything you want to add."....has this statement been released?

Hi jd, yes, the McCann's apt was classed as first floor (don't forget they had to climb steps to enter the apartment, hence - 1st floor) Mrs Fenn was on the 2nd floor. The moyes on the 3rd floor. Above them? we don't know.

No, I don't believe her first statement has been released.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 12:36

@jd wrote:Just reading through CT's statement and she says "We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence".......This suggests their apartment was up, but is her 'first floor' the ground floor or the actual first floor? Sounds like her first floor means the ground floor if they are opening the gate. Maybe she has mentioned being on the 2nd floor which to most is the top, but CT's 2nd floor is in reality the first floor! confused???

Also, "DC1485: 'Okay Carole. I have read your statement from the 8th of May, 2007, more or less one week after you saw the individual. It would be easier if you read the statement yourself and tell me if there is anything you want to add."....has this statement been released?

No, it has not, this is what Praia is telling us, it has been witheld by the PJ.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by jd on 20.01.12 12:40

@Daisy wrote:
Hi jd, yes, the McCann's apt was classed as first floor (don't forget they had to climb steps to enter the apartment, hence - 1st floor) Mrs Fenn was on the 2nd floor. The moyes on the 3rd floor. Above them? we don't know.

No, I don't believe her first statement has been released.

Hi Daisy, yes I think you are right...the Moyles were on the 3rd floor. I will have to reread their press statements as it rings bell in my memory that they said something like they were 2 floors up, and I always had this impression that they were from somewhere. The way CT worded her 'looking down' implies to me she was on the floor above

This blonde character is looking to be important....no doubt some friend or associate of the mccanns/T9

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by jd on 20.01.12 12:44

Stella wrote:
No, it has not, this is what Praia is telling us, it has been witheld by the PJ

Clearly the PJ were onto something which was very important. I am sure that if they released all the statements and not withhold any, we would know the truth. But I can understand fully why they are being withheld for the time being but they are leaving a few clues. One being the poolside pic not on the camera

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 20.01.12 12:51

I remember reading the CT interview as well and specifically remember detailing the description of this blonde guy spotted surreptitiously closing the gate with great care as to not make a noise....... this set alarm bells in my head too. She definitely said the guy was fair skinned and blonde. I initially thought of Sergei Malinka for some reason and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up as I read her statement. What I also remember asking on one of the threads relating to this was that I wondered why during the lunch/early evening drinks food on the terrace, did Mrs Fenn not mention the crying incident to her neice as they sat chatting. The incident was important/upsetting enough for Mrs Fenn to ring her friend on the evening that it happened and tell her about it. CT makes no mention of her Aunt relaying this story on to her. I since read that apparently Mrs Fenn did not even mention this to the PJ until August during an interview. Very odd.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 12:52

@jd wrote:
@Daisy wrote:
Hi jd, yes, the McCann's apt was classed as first floor (don't forget they had to climb steps to enter the apartment, hence - 1st floor) Mrs Fenn was on the 2nd floor. The moyes on the 3rd floor. Above them? we don't know.

No, I don't believe her first statement has been released.

Hi Daisy, yes I think you are right...the Moyles were on the 3rd floor. I will have to reread their press statements as it rings bell in my memory that they said something like they were 2 floors up, and I always had this impression that they were from somewhere. The way CT worded her 'looking down' implies to me she was on the floor above

This blonde character is looking to be important....no doubt some friend or associate of the mccanns/T9

Daisy is incorrect. All of the apartments that are located on the ground floor, have access through the car park, directly onto their front doors. The rear of the ground floor is accessed via steps (stairs), but the front is not. They are ground floor apartments.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 12:54

@Upsy Daisy wrote:I remember reading the CT interview as well and specifically remember detailing the description of this blonde guy spotted surreptitiously closing the gate with great care as to not make a noise....... this set alarm bells in my head too. She definitely said the guy was fair skinned and blonde. I initially thought of Sergei Malinka for some reason and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up as I read her statement. What I also remember asking on one of the threads relating to this was that I wondered why during the lunch/early evening drinks food on the terrace, did Mrs Fenn not mention the crying incident to her neice as they sat chatting. The incident was important/upsetting enough for Mrs Fenn to ring her friend on the evening that it happened and tell her about it. CT makes no mention of her Aunt relaying this story on to her. I since read that apparently Mrs Fenn did not even mention this to the PJ until August during an interview. Very odd.

A very good point Upsy Daisy.

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Daisy on 20.01.12 12:59

Stella wrote:Daisy, Praia is bringing to our attention some very important issues here, we have clearly overlooked and they are very significant.

Praia did not actually say Mrs Fenn had two apartments, it was me who asked/suggested this
, which we are still to confirm. I am reading Carole Tranmer's statement right now and she does not state that Mrs Fenn's apartment number was 5G. Strange don't you think?

Praia is from Portugal, the IP address confirms this and any help from that side is truly welcome.

We will just have to accept that sometimes, as we have seen in the past, individuals come forward to help us and it may not always be possible to have concrete proof. We are not going round in circles here. We are looking under all those stones that we have forgotten all about and being pointed in the right direction. I do not understand why you are getting so angry and making threats. No one is forcing you to read any material on here. If there is someone you feel you cannot accept what they have to say, just gloss over them. It is as simple as that. Trust me, I wish I could with quite a few posters on here, but being a Mod, sadly I'm unable to.

Yes Stella, Praia did actually say it.

Quote Praia: "Read Carole Trenton's statements. Mrs Fenn was on the TOP floor three
stories up,
thr apt was on it's own in the corner. CT thinks she may
have owned another apt.in the block
. CT saw the strange man from the TOP
floor.
There are good reasons Mrs Fenn's statement was withheld. CT is
also asked to describe no. 20 in great detail. CT statement has been
overlooked, it throws open alot of questions.
Mrs Fenn's apt. was on the TOP floor according to her niece.

Quote Praia: "Daisy you are missing what I am saying. CT says her aunt lived on the
TOP floor of the block,
no. 20. Just her on the top floor like a
penthouse.

CT visited Mrs Fenn on the Sun. and Thurs., sat on her
balcony and saw a stranger leave 5B down below. She describes the
amazing view from the TOP floor
.
She thought her aunt owned another apt. in the building.
This is important folks."

Now, I'm not silly, I know there isn't always "concrete proof", I'm not asking for that, I'm asking for sources to the above info that Praia has brought forward. Is that so bad? Isn't this how research works? I'll repeat NOWHERE in CT's statement will you find any of the above (underlined ^) info. Unless, Praia has read CT's first statement and that's not very likely is it?

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 13:01

Thank you Candyfloss, as we can see, their are 4 seperate levels above ground floor.

Ground flr.1stfloor2ndfloor3rdfloor4thfloor
5AMcCann5GMrs Fenn5KMoyes5Pempty ?5RMrs Fenn?
5BOldfield5HPayne5Lempty ?5Q5S
5Cempty ?5iempty ?5Mempty ?
5DTanner5J?5N
5E
5F
the OC cleaner only cleans these apartments
the cleaner said was occupied
we know is privately owned
presumed to be privately owned
sniffer dogs Rex and Zarus independently show interest
and cleaner confirmed it was not occupied

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by jd on 20.01.12 13:02

REPORTER Now, to put it into perspective. We’ve all seen pictures of of the apartment were the McCanns were staying. How close is yours to theirs?

SUSAN MOYES Directly above. We are but one above. Mrs Fenn who lives there was in the apartment below us and then below that was the McCanns. So directly above.

http://regretsandramblings.com/2011/10/24/radio-stoke-speak-to-susan-moyes/

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Re: What was 5A really used for?

Post by Guest on 20.01.12 13:06

@Daisy wrote:
Stella wrote:Daisy, Praia is bringing to our attention some very important issues here, we have clearly overlooked and they are very significant.

Praia did not actually say Mrs Fenn had two apartments, it was me who asked/suggested this
, which we are still to confirm. I am reading Carole Tranmer's statement right now and she does not state that Mrs Fenn's apartment number was 5G. Strange don't you think?

Praia is from Portugal, the IP address confirms this and any help from that side is truly welcome.

We will just have to accept that sometimes, as we have seen in the past, individuals come forward to help us and it may not always be possible to have concrete proof. We are not going round in circles here. We are looking under all those stones that we have forgotten all about and being pointed in the right direction. I do not understand why you are getting so angry and making threats. No one is forcing you to read any material on here. If there is someone you feel you cannot accept what they have to say, just gloss over them. It is as simple as that. Trust me, I wish I could with quite a few posters on here, but being a Mod, sadly I'm unable to.

Yes Stella, Praia did actually say it.

Quote Praia: "Read Carole Trenton's statements. Mrs Fenn was on the TOP floor three
stories up,
thr apt was on it's own in the corner. CT thinks she may
have owned another apt.in the block
. CT saw the strange man from the TOP
floor.
There are good reasons Mrs Fenn's statement was withheld. CT is
also asked to describe no. 20 in great detail. CT statement has been
overlooked, it throws open alot of questions.
Mrs Fenn's apt. was on the TOP floor according to her niece.

Quote Praia: "Daisy you are missing what I am saying. CT says her aunt lived on the
TOP floor of the block,
no. 20. Just her on the top floor like a
penthouse.

CT visited Mrs Fenn on the Sun. and Thurs., sat on her
balcony and saw a stranger leave 5B down below. She describes the
amazing view from the TOP floor
.
She thought her aunt owned another apt. in the building.
This is important folks."

Now, I'm not silly, I know there isn't always "concrete proof", I'm not asking for that, I'm asking for sources to the above info that Praia has brought forward. Is that so bad? Isn't this how research works? I'll repeat NOWHERE in CT's statement will you find any of the above (underlined ^) info. Unless, Praia has read CT's first statement and that's not very likely is it?

Praia is clearly saying then that it was Carole Tranmer who is alluding to more than one apartment. I am going through this statement right now and for the next couple of days, so will have to come back to you whether Praia is right, or you are right and will come back to this, if that's alright with you?

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