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Forensic linguistics -

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Forensic Linguistics

Post by sijm on 20.01.12 14:32

Upon reading Kate's diary, I was more than alarmed when reading one of her entries 20th June 2007, at that time Gerry had been on a trip to London, incidentlaly there was an awful lot of publicity surrounded that trip,

1,His wallet was stollen.

2. The saving of a mans life when Gerry administered medical help on the plane to a man who had collapsed.

3. The third incident was when Kate picked up Gerry from the airport and a guy laid down in the middle of the road they were driving on, Kate says the guy recognised Gerry and her straight away, Oh really! Even when he was so drunk? So, was this why he laid down if front of their car, because he knew them?

By the way fearless Gerry on his own and in a foreign country takes a total stranger, who (appears?) paralytic drunk back to this drunks appartment, let along the controversy surrounding the family at that time of who was involved in Madeleine's disappearance, this guy could have been the abductor wanting to look into the pained faces of the McCanns, after he had fulfilled his sick roll 20th of June 2007?

Did Gerry ever tell the police about this guy and where the guys appartrment was, he should have, this man should be eliminated from the investigation?

Also begs a question, With all that publicity surrounding that one trip, could it have been a good alibi for some movement that had taken place at that time?

It appears this time June 20-22nd June was the most stressful time for the Kate as it shows in her diary entry that follows when alone with her thoughts she telephoned Ricardo.

"I want to speak to someone now. But its to late, I changed my mind and sent a text message to Ricardo. I don't know if it was a sensible idea, but I feell annoyed" (This was the time that Kate told Ricardo about Madeleine being on a hill)

If Madeliene's remains are ever found on or in that hill, could this be a case of psycholinguistics kicking in, perceived as an involuntary control, such as in having knowledge of something or as in being conscious of the extent of a problem , being aware of a wrongdoing?

Almost like a subconscious admission of guilt by the slip of the tongue maybe, (Madleine is on a slab on the hill)

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by jd on 20.01.12 14:55

I wonder if the "drunk" was doing his masonic calling to gerry?

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by tigger on 20.01.12 15:07

sijm wrote: quote
It appears this time June 20-22nd June was the most stressful time for the Kate as it shows in her diary entry that follows when alone with her thoughts she telephoned Ricardo. unquote

Very interesting sijm! I went into those two amazing day in some detail, quite some time ago.
1. saving a man's life on the plane. - the man was never interviewed, never heard of again, no media at all, no name, no incident report on the flight (which is mandatory) and it appeared the only authority for this story was Gerry himself in his blogs.
2. Gerry had his wallet stolen in two different places and this was relayed to the public via the usual source: philomena.
3. Gerry was picked up at the airport by in Portugal by (I think) Michael Wright and Kate. Near the church I believe they saw a drunk in the road, stopped the car, picked him up and took him to his apartment. Kate said: 'We've all been there.' (speak for yourself Healy). Now one poster thought and possibly the PJ too, that this was a cover in case they were seen visiting a certain apartment nearby.
It is known that the PJ had an interest in an apartment block near the church.

But your observation, that Kate was very stressed around that time- I wonder if was that the time Maddie was buried? (the hill, imo being quite far away).
So now we have not just Gerry having a rather busy time, but Kate being on her own phoning the police whilst Gerry is away.
Looks as if pressure was building and things weren't going their way. It was clearly necessary to lose the credit cards for a period of time.
The drunk might have been a cover, it's just saving the life of this guy no-one ever heard of before, during or since that's still a mystery.

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by jd on 20.01.12 15:24

What I don't understand about the credit cards is the PJ financial check shows he did not have any credit cards

There is a coverup of some sort for feeding the public he had credit cards stolen he never apparently owned..mmmmm

"saving a man's life on the plane. - the man was never interviewed, never heard of again, no media at all, no name, no incident report on the flight (which is mandatory) and it appeared the only authority for this story was Gerry himself in his the American blogs"....so true

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Forensic Linguistics

Post by sijm on 20.01.12 15:55

Hi Tigger

Am I right in thinking that GM was seen near Downing Street on that trip?

Could Gerry have been filling the empty coffers from hidden sources and with luck had it returned full of cash?

Could the drunk have been a payoff for services rendered when he got back, such as moving A to B?

All I know is I do not beleive in visons, just the brain untangling what activity it has experienced.

Kate stated when she and MO went for a run not long after Madeleine disappeared, a dog had attacked her shin and again when she went running on her own one day, she stated she found herself surrounded by dogs.

All dogs are prone to have a sensitive noses, not only forensically trained dogs that are trained to a very high standard,so could this have been an indication them trainers had fresh DNA on them?

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by jd on 20.01.12 16:05

Kate stated when she and MO went for a run not long after Madeleine disappeared, a dog had attacked her shin and again when she went running on her own one day, she stated she found herself surrounded by dogs.

All dogs are prone to have a sensitive noses, not only forensically trained dogs that are trained to a very high standard,so could this have been an indication them trainers had fresh DNA on them?

Good point!

And I reckon the drunk was a Kiwi...and they knew it!!!

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by tigger on 20.01.12 17:03

@jd wrote:What I don't understand about the credit cards is the PJ financial check shows he did not have any credit cards

There is a coverup of some sort for feeding the public he had credit cards stolen he never apparently owned..mmmmm

"saving a man's life on the plane. - the man was never interviewed, never heard of again, no media at all, no name, no incident report on the flight (which is mandatory) and it appeared the only authority for this story was Gerry himself in his the American blogs"....so true

I think the PJ were told they didn't have credit cards and the information - like Maddie's health records - wasn't forthcoming from the UK. Not the PJ's fault, I doubt whether they believed what they were told.

Incidentally, probably the wrong thread, but here is an old 14 min. part of Yes Minister - shows how it's done and always has been done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4OFSR_f1Uw&feature=endscreen

Oh, features a chancellor who is a pervert and a foreign secretary who's committed fraud. Well I never!

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by rainbow-fairy on 21.01.12 12:02

@jd wrote:What I don't understand about the credit cards is the PJ financial check shows he did not have any credit cards

There is a coverup of some sort for feeding the public he had credit cards stolen he never apparently owned..mmmmm

"saving a man's life on the plane. - the man was never interviewed, never heard of again, no media at all, no name, no incident report on the flight (which is mandatory) and it appeared the only authority for this story was Gerry himself in his the American blogs"....so true
Didn't I read that there was an ambulance waiting on the tarmac for the flight? I have often wondered if Gerry was bringing someone something home, and someone something was taken away for 'disposal'... just thinking out loud...

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by tigger on 21.01.12 13:05

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@jd wrote:What I don't understand about the credit cards is the PJ financial check shows he did not have any credit cards

There is a coverup of some sort for feeding the public he had credit cards stolen he never apparently owned..mmmmm

"saving a man's life on the plane. - the man was never interviewed, never heard of again, no media at all, no name, no incident report on the flight (which is mandatory) and it appeared the only authority for this story was Gerry himself in his the American blogs"....so true
Didn't I read that there was an ambulance waiting on the tarmac for the flight? I have often wondered if Gerry was bringing someone something home, and someone something was taken away for 'disposal'... just thinking out loud...

As far as that goes, I'm not for such risky and public transports. In any case, they couldn't care less imo.
People have championed the inflatable poster truck, the truck that brought all their stuff home in September, certainly not the first time this idea cropped up.
I just think that Gerry was after some publicity, I think it was dying down, perhaps an old chap got a bit asthmatic and Gerry loosened his tie. As I said, there is absolutely nothing to corroborate it. Had any kind of emergency really happened, (I did read that the airport and the flight log was checked a long time ago, nothing in the log, no ambulance waiting) newspapers would have picked it up for news. So why didn't that happen? Imo because it didn't happen. Any newspaper would have run with it, interviewed the man. Only found in the blog.
Gerry was also alone when his wallet got stolen - twice! (no press anywhere). Only got minor mention in papers so had to be enhanced by Philomena.
Useful info dispersed via the blog: credit cards now kosher - anything irregular can be blamed on thief.
The following night with the drunk in the road, - I do think that is interesting. Only found in the blog.
If a body had to be transported to the UK, which I very much doubt, the people who could arrange a complicated ruse like this, could easily find another means of far more discreet transport.
It just didn't happen at all. Don't forget how much Gerry likes to be in the limelight, nr.1!


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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by Guest on 21.01.12 13:08

I think the student loan analogy is very strang and at best a really poor analogy.... but quite interesting linguistically speaking as it gives an insight into the workings of the brain... to explain feelings using a financial analogy is quite an interesting choice and I think gives an indication of priorities in his mind. Surprising when it's such early days after the disappearance, a matter of only a few weeks.

If he is searching through his life experience for a moment in time when he was distraught and comes up with being poor as a student, then maybe that is an indication that to him it was the worst moment in his life and financial health is right up there in his priorities...


Interview with Ian Woods from Sky News on 25 may 2007 :
IW: I think that everyone has just been incredibly impressed with you
as a couple and how you’ve dealt with this. There was a period after a
week or so where you looked as if you were almost brokenbroke?? and who could
not understand that? And then there seemed to be a sort of a strength
come from somewhere. Is that a fair point? Is that what happened and
what brought it about?

KMcC: I think that’s definitely true, isn’t it [looks at Gerry and sighs]

GMcC: Certainly, you know, at the end of that first week there was so
much emotion that we had spent and we actually had a period where we
discussed this openly that we felt devoid, completely devoid of emotion. The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you’d got to your overdraft limit and you’d gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank bank??. Also, I think, physically and mentally we were shattered but,
you know, as we gradually got more on an even keel and we started to
get back into the black and we’d also worked tirelessly behind the
scenes to put support mechanisms in place including our legal team. The
response with the fund which was really driven by offers rather than us
thinking we needed it. And once these were in place then it helped us to
focus on what we really needed to focus on.http://news.sky.com/home/article/1267568

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by tigger on 21.01.12 13:28

Stewie wrote:I think the student loan analogy is very strang and at best a really poor analogy.... but quite interesting linguistically speaking as it gives an insight into the workings of the brain... to explain feelings using a financial analogy is quite an interesting choice and I think gives an indication of priorities in his mind. Surprising when it's such early days after the disappearance, a matter of only a few weeks.

If he is searching through his life experience for a moment in time when he was distraught and comes up with being poor as a student, then maybe that is an indication that to him it was the worst moment in his life and financial health is right up there in his priorities...


Interview with Ian Woods from Sky News on 25 may 2007 :
IW: I think that everyone has just been incredibly impressed with you
as a couple and how you’ve dealt with this. There was a period after a
week or so where you looked as if you were almost brokenbroke?? and who could
not understand that? And then there seemed to be a sort of a strength
come from somewhere. Is that a fair point? Is that what happened and
what brought it about?

KMcC: I think that’s definitely true, isn’t it [looks at Gerry and sighs]

GMcC: Certainly, you know, at the end of that first week there was so
much emotion that we had spent and we actually had a period where we
discussed this openly that we felt devoid, completely devoid of emotion. The analogy that I like to use is a bit like when we were students and you’d got to your overdraft limit and you’d gone beyond it and there was just nothing left in the tank bank??. Also, I think, physically and mentally we were shattered but,
you know, as we gradually got more on an even keel
and we started to
get back into the black and we’d also worked tirelessly behind the
scenes to put support mechanisms in place including our legal team. The
response with the fund which was really driven by offers rather than us
thinking we needed it. And once these were in place then it helped us to
focus on what we really needed to focus on.
http://news.sky.com/home/article/1267568

So what he is saying is essentially:
that losing a loved child is as bad as going over your overdraft limit.
getting back on an even keel - refers to balancing (money) again
started to get back in the black - still with the money here - wasn't it Clarrie who said all we needed to do is put money in an envelope and address it to Kate and Gerry, Rothley and it would get there?
putting support mechanisms and a legal team in place was essential - otherwise they could not search for their child - they could only focus on the search (presumably) once they had money to do so. Clearly rubbish but Gerry must have been studying the jargon.
Taken as a whole, it could quite easily refer to a business which had hit a rough patch. Not a word needs to be changed.

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A niggling question

Post by Cristobell on 21.01.12 15:33

When Kate was called in for questioning and declared an Arguido, in that short period before Gerry was himself called in, the news reported that Gerry would stand by her. For me this was a 'wtf' moment - a moment where I thought, perhaps they were putting plan B into action, something along the lines of the alleged deal offered by the PJ. It also also served to detach Gerry from any crime, self preservation and all that.

In linguistics, when someone says something extraordinary, the opposite can be true. For example when someone says, 'with respect', you know they are about to insult you. Unfortunately I can't find the exact commentary, not even on the McCann files, and wonder if anyone else recalls this?

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by jd on 21.01.12 16:45

@Cristobell wrote:When Kate was called in for questioning and declared an Arguido, in that short period before Gerry was himself called in, the news reported that Gerry would stand by her. For me this was a 'wtf' moment - a moment where I thought, perhaps they were putting plan B into action, something along the lines of the alleged deal offered by the PJ. It also also served to detach Gerry from any crime, self preservation and all that.

In linguistics, when someone says something extraordinary, the opposite can be true. For example when someone says, 'with respect', you know they are about to insult you. Unfortunately I can't find the exact commentary, not even on the McCann files, and wonder if anyone else recalls this?

At this same time, philomena mccann was telling Martin Brunt that kate was going to be arrested for killing Maddie which Brunt was reporting on TV, quoting his source as philomena mccann. There is a video of it on youtube...unless its whooshed

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by Praia on 21.01.12 17:00

Cristobell you are right, I don't remember the exact words. They were lining up for Healy to take the fall. I think TM expected
Healy to be charged on the second day. Philomena certainly sounded as if she did.

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by Guest on 21.01.12 17:04

Well her lawyer seemed to think so, this from KM's book (taken from the scrolling headline at the top of forum)......

... Kate McCann's lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu: "If you were Portuguese, this would be enough to put you in prison.".....

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by Praia on 21.01.12 17:24

Yup! people here were sure she would be charged and speculating whether she would be up in court, which town etc. The media did too. Good old political pressure!

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by Cristobell on 21.01.12 18:20

Many thanks for your replies Candyfloss and Praia - may I ask Praia, do you live in Portugal?

I actually found Gerry's statement at that time quite callous, I am not entirely sure why, but it seemed disloyal.

To be fair, the acting skills of both of them has never been up to much, no real show of emotion, they wouldn't last 5 minutes on Eastenders, but this detachment was something else. Up until that event, they were on a roll, basking in the limelight, and issuing proclamations under the cloak of Pope Benedict and doing daily walkabouts for the legions of paparazzi. Being named as suspects didn't do them any good at all. I think that is the only time I have seen Gerry looking truly devastated.

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Philomena McCann

Post by Guest on 21.01.12 20:22

I can't find the Sky news report about Kate to be charged in connection with Madeleine's disappearance but here's a brief clip of Philomena saying that the police tried to get her to confess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wpunYKXhc8&feature=related

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by Guest on 21.01.12 20:28

Jean wrote:I can't find the Sky news report about Kate to be charged in connection with Madeleine's disappearance but here's a brief clip of Philomena saying that the police tried to get her to confess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wpunYKXhc8&feature=related


This is the one Jean, announcing in advance she is going to be charged. Funny how the Leveson inquiry says Portuguese police leaked info when it seems leaks came from family and also the PR Justine if I remember right, I think she said on Panorama they were tweeting info out of the police station.




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Forensic Linguistics.

Post by sijm on 22.01.12 13:17

Hello Stewie.

Regarding that inteview with Woods from Sky News and when Gerry goes off on one stating as below.

"You know, we gradually got more on an even keel and we started to get back into the black and we'd also worked tirelessly behind the scenes to put support mechanisms in place including our legal team".

Could GM have been giving out a coded message that funds were low?

As to putting a legal team in place, Why seek a legal team so early as in May, had they been warned they were going to be charged or did they know deep down they would be prime suspects even with all their support team in place (tapas 7)?

Listening to that terminology relating to a student loan, it begs the questions, Had GM over borrowed on all those medical loans to be able to study and take further exams to become a specialist on Nuclear Medicine after all, did'nt he become a medical monitor for the Nuclear Industry and was on the Government bank roll already, maybe even had a n accountset up through which he was paid?

I read that MP's even have a expenses card, perhaps this goes for all Government employees, one would need no personal finances just a Government expenses card, maybe this explains the lack of credit cards for the McCanns?

Is it true he was near Downing street on that trip to London on June 19-20th ?

Were'nt they due to move to new accommodation in June bet that would have needed extra cash injection, not to be taken from that yet to be established Madeleine Fund, by the way wonder if anyone has a conscience, when drawing money little Madeline's Fund?

I would like to ask, where was Madeleine on the 50th day balloon celebration that was paid for by the Sun Newspaper?

Had Maddie gone to the dogs near that time so to speak, not a nice thought but a reallity, remember the dogs sniffing at Kate's new shoes.

If Maddie had been out there on that cliff like Krugel stated, no doubt the packs will sniff out anything, so whoever put Madeleine out there must have known that?

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by tigger on 23.01.12 19:31

I'm posting this although I don't have a link to the TV clip referred to here, but it's priceless!

From: PSYCHICS IN THE MCCANN CASE
Clarence Darling x on Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:46 pm
snipped

From those early days i recall Gerry saying on TV something along the lines of it being essential Kate contined to believe Maddeleine had been abducted. I remember this was a turning point for me when i thought....but she was abducted...why would Kate have to continue to believe it?

snip unquote

This is find very interesting. Thinking how 'stoned' Kate looked and behaved early on, hard to believe, but was the truth too hard to bear? Or too frightening? Wonder if planning the thing was fine but the reality too hard to bear unless she fooled herself trying to believe their own lies?

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by kikoraton on 24.01.12 19:24

Might the whole scheme have been concocted by Gerry, Robert Naylor, and Madalene the substitute's dad? Just thinking aloud.
I suspect the only thing that drives Naylor - for those who don't know, the one whose daughter Gerry signed into creche - is money. A few years with Teather and Greenwood (caught in a deception by the finance supervisory body) and 8 with Landsbanki (went bust with the savings of many families) do not suggest scrupulous judgement. Although Naylor appears to have spent most of the '00s in Edinburgh, I think he knew Gerry, probably from the Golf Club at Rothley. I've got some evidence, but can't prove it yet.
Gerry needed help in a scheme to bring in a few million.

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by tigger on 24.01.12 19:31

@kikoraton wrote:Might the whole scheme have been concocted by Gerry, Robert Naylor, and Madalene the substitute's dad? Just thinking aloud.
I suspect the only thing that drives Naylor - for those who don't know, the one whose daughter Gerry signed into creche - is money. A few years with Teather and Greenwood (caught in a deception by the finance supervisory body) and 8 with Landsbanki (went bust with the savings of many families) do not suggest scrupulous judgement. Although Naylor appears to have spent most of the '00s in Edinburgh, I think he knew Gerry, probably from the Golf Club at Rothley. I've got some evidence, but can't prove it yet.
Gerry needed help in a scheme to bring in a few million.

I like it! Definitely had professional advice re marketing. People in the know knew the financial balloon was about to burst. Logical step for business people to try and grab some of the action or rather, be first in line for e.g. microchipping on the back of much publicised abduction.
Imo logical step to get the attention: lose one child who'd not be lost if she'd been microchipped, lose another one who will be found because she was. (the last actually happened in Canada - diabetic child was microchipped, lost and found in time for next insulin shot).

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by Badboys on 24.01.12 19:34

kikoraton,there may be another connection(let he who has wisdom has understanding).

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Re: Forensic linguistics -

Post by tigger on 25.01.12 8:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMp_Evmv4d4

This is a brilliant little video. Gerry's body language.

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