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Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aliberte2 on 01.02.10 17:32

@Autumn wrote:We already have laws in place to protect babies and very young children form being left alone - there are parents currently serving jail sentences for doing as the McCanns did. As Simplyme says, at the very least, the McCanns should have been charged with neglect.

No, there Arent.

There are People in Jail for living Babies for Hours alone, awake, the babies Tryign to Feed Each Other, who are Trash. Then they Left These Children Awake and Went Down to the Pub, pubs far enough away they Couldn't see the house, and Got Annihiliated and Not checking the Children at all for HOURS.

There is no One in an English jail for Sitting 50 yards away from their House the Lines of whcih they Could See having Drinks, While Checking up on those Chidlren Periodically, Even if the Checks were further apart then Claimed. No one Disputes the Checks Were Done, Which Means the McCanns couldn't have Formed the Mental State needed for Neglect.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Autumn on 01.02.10 17:37

You obviously know nothing about children if you can excuse the McCanns neglectful behaviour. Dont trivialize their behaviour, they went out on the lash leaving their babies and toddler alone, crying and frightened.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aliberte2 on 01.02.10 17:42

@Autumn wrote:You obviously know nothing about children if you can excuse the McCanns neglectful behaviour. Dont trivialize their behaviour, they went out on the lash leaving their babies and toddler alone, crying and frightened.

There. Are. Not. People. In. An. English. Jail. For What The McCanns. Did. Whatever Your Imagination has Come up With, and Whether You think It's Neglect or Not, there Are. Not. People. In. English. Jail. For. It. It's not Trivializing, It's READING THE FILES. You have To NEGLECT Chidlren to be Prosectuted for Neglect, See, You have to THink "I'm Not Going to Take Care of My Children Now" vs. "I am Going to Stupidly Leave Children in Bed and Check up on Them Every Hour or So While I sit 50 Yards Away."

That's Called a FAcutal Accounting of THe Situation. And there Are Not People in Jail For It in England.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aliberte2 on 01.02.10 17:42

If It was OBVIOUS LEGALLY it was Neglect, Why Do We Need Madeleine's Law?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Kololi on 01.02.10 18:12

Hi
I am pretty certain that it was Mr Bennett who was trying to put pressure for a law to be introduced after Madeleine went missing not the McCanns and 20/10 for him or whoever it was for trying.

Aliberte I have a feeling that it would depend upon whether an imaginery Joe in the same situation would have done what the McCanns did - the old Clapham omnibus measure.

Take care

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aliberte2 on 01.02.10 18:26

I am in Support of Madeleine's Law. But the Fact that We need Its Existence is Proof That The Neglect Laws Arent' As Clear as they Should be And are Taken on a Case by Case Basis.

I Do Not Support The McCanns' Portugeuse Arrangements. But the Fact that Checks Were Done In a RELATIVELY small Amount of Time Negates, in My view and the Portugeuse Prosecuttor's View, the Mental State Needed for Neglect.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aiyoyo on 01.02.10 19:08

@vaguely1 wrote:As far as I can see they haven't used the funds for their defence fund, just for the book, which they consider to be hampering their search.

It seems to fit with what was previously said - I'm not seeing an issue.

May I ask was tackling the book about clearing their name or the search for Madeleine?

They continue to say that their PIs are still receiving plenty leads.....so how does that hamper the search?

It seems they had also paid for image consultant (Lift it's called I believe) out of the Fund...how is that necessary for the search for Maddie?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by vaguely1 on 01.02.10 19:25

@aiyoyo wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:As far as I can see they haven't used the funds for their defence fund, just for the book, which they consider to be hampering their search.

It seems to fit with what was previously said - I'm not seeing an issue.

May I ask was tackling the book about clearing their name or the search for Madeleine?

They continue to say that their PIs are still receiving plenty leads.....so how does that hamper the search?

It seems they had also paid for image consultant (Lift it's called I believe) out of the Fund...how is that necessary for the search for Maddie?

Tackling the book doesn't clear their name, that's the point. Their name is mud in certain quarters, and stopping the book won't alter that.

I'm against the book because I don't like to see anybody profit out of an unsolved crime, let alone the lead detective on the case. I find the idea repugnant, and an insult to serving officers and families of the victim and more to the point, the victim themselves. It also does nothing to obtain a decent trial for the offender (s)

That's just my opinion, but it's where I come from on the book issue.

As for the image consultant.....I'd say reading through some of the posts on here they probably need one.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by vaguely1 on 01.02.10 19:32

@simplyme wrote:I find I am getting quite annoyed here so I am going to stop. I like to debate but its hard going when no matter what you say it comes down to opposing views. I really would like to know what happened to this poor child. My heart goes out for her little life which I believe was snuffed out way to soon. Im sorry but i dont believe the McCann hype, I think they know far more than they are saying.

I will only say this

LET THE MCCANNS HAVE THEIR DAY IN COURT

if they are found 'innocent' of neglect etc.. then I will shut up forever. At the very least there should be a trial, an inquest or something.


You cannot take a person to court when a crime hasn't been committed, I sense your frustration, but in order to take a case to court there needs to be evidence of neglect. The children were left alone for what appears to be 30 minutes at a time, in a building that was in view of the parents - I think a prosecutor would struggle with securing a neglect charge.....otherwise they would have been charged. All the cases that I've seen prosecuted recently have differed from what seems to have happened that night.

Can I ask why you donated after you knew the children had been left alone if you felt as strongly as you do?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aiyoyo on 01.02.10 21:04

@vaguely1 wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@vaguely1 wrote:As far as I can see they haven't used the funds for their defence fund, just for the book, which they consider to be hampering their search.

It seems to fit with what was previously said - I'm not seeing an issue.

May I ask was tackling the book about clearing their name or the search for Madeleine?

They continue to say that their PIs are still receiving plenty leads.....so how does that hamper the search?

It seems they had also paid for image consultant (Lift it's called I believe) out of the Fund...how is that necessary for the search for Maddie?

Tackling the book doesn't clear their name, that's the point. Their name is mud in certain quarters, and stopping the book won't alter that.

I'm against the book because I don't like to see anybody profit out of an unsolved crime, let alone the lead detective on the case. I find the idea repugnant, and an insult to serving officers and families of the victim and more to the point, the victim themselves. It also does nothing to obtain a decent trial for the offender (s)

That's just my opinion, but it's where I come from on the book issue.

As for the image consultant.....I'd say reading through some of the posts on here they probably need one.

The only people profitting from the crime is her parents - fund, libel money, marketing her. To me her parents are the repungnant ones.

At least Amaral, victim of mccanns curse, is willing to stick his neck out for Justice for Maddie. He is thorn in mccanns eyes. Anyway truly innocent should have no fear and nothing to defend. The fact that mccanns fear his book speaks volume and good on him to bring the process files to a larger public. The mccanns shouldnt be allowed to prohibit free expression and should be allowed suppress process files.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by vaguely1 on 01.02.10 21:29

@aiyoyo wrote:

The only people profitting from the crime is her parents - fund, libel money, marketing her. To me her parents are the repungnant ones.

At least Amaral, victim of mccanns curse, is willing to stick his neck out for Justice for Maddie. He is thorn in mccanns eyes. Anyway truly innocent should have no fear and nothing to defend. The fact that mccanns fear his book speaks volume and good on him to bring the process files to a larger public. The mccanns shouldnt be allowed to prohibit free expression and should be allowed suppress process files.

Except that he didn't mention that was why he wrote the book, it was mentioned several times that he wrote the book to defend his reputation - and as you say the truly innocent have nothing to defend. I don't see the book, or any book written about the case as being anything to do with finding justice for Madeleine. They're all written by people with an agenda and a sense of self-importance.


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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by marigold on 01.02.10 21:41

@vaguely1 wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:

The only people profitting from the crime is her parents - fund, libel money, marketing her. To me her parents are the repungnant ones.

At least Amaral, victim of mccanns curse, is willing to stick his neck out for Justice for Maddie. He is thorn in mccanns eyes. Anyway truly innocent should have no fear and nothing to defend. The fact that mccanns fear his book speaks volume and good on him to bring the process files to a larger public. The mccanns shouldnt be allowed to prohibit free expression and should be allowed suppress process files.

Except that he didn't mention that was why he wrote the book, it was mentioned several times that he wrote the book to defend his reputation - and as you say the truly innocent have nothing to defend. I don't see the book, or any book written about the case as being anything to do with finding justice for Madeleine. They're all written by people with an agenda and a sense of self-importance.

Yes but what's your excuse for them regarding the first part of aiyoyo's post? The fact that they profited from the crime: fund,libel money, marketing her?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aiyoyo on 02.02.10 8:01

@vaguely1 wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:

The only people profitting from the crime is her parents - fund, libel money, marketing her. To me her parents are the repungnant ones.

At least Amaral, victim of mccanns curse, is willing to stick his neck out for Justice for Maddie. He is thorn in mccanns eyes. Anyway truly innocent should have no fear and nothing to defend. The fact that mccanns fear his book speaks volume and good on him to bring the process files to a larger public. The mccanns shouldnt be allowed to prohibit free expression and should not be allowed to suppress process files.

Except that he didn't mention that was why he wrote the book, it was mentioned several times that he wrote the book to defend his reputation - and as you say the truly innocent have nothing to defend. I don't see the book, or any book written about the case as being anything to do with finding justice for Madeleine. They're all written by people with an agenda and a sense of self-importance.


.

The man was horrendously treated and vilified by the UK press. I dont begrudge him his rights to seek redress of a situation he found himself in, caused by bureaucrats and to a large degree external political interfering, and not self inflicted unlike the mccanns.

The term 'benefitting from a crime' refers to 'perpetrator' profiting from deed committed by self, illegal by law, something which is common knowledge; and the mccanns are laying their own booby trap.

Crime writers existed ever since primordial history and Amaral isnt the first to pen about a crime and certainly not the first to write about this particular crime, but other pro-mccann literature did not rattle the mccanns. The fact that the crime is still fresh should not make any difference because it was shelved. Moreover everything pertaining to this crime was so unprecedented in history that making it a case study like Amaral did is to the advantage of the victim (Madeleine) so there's nothing wrong with that base objective. Simply to counter the mccann's suppression is all the more reason why those info should be out in the public domain.

Anyway, if not Amaral, someone else will pen such a book, then what are the mccanns going to do? Imo, if they do not sue, then it will become glaringly obvious Amaral was targeted for a purpose because of who he was in the investigation and by extension credibility of his narratives. If they do sue others, then the real winner is their lawyer, and their muddy name will be magnified further.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by simplyme on 02.02.10 10:35

You certainly can - I donated beacuse I heard the McCann spin. They said it was like dining in your back garden. I had thought they were literally maybe sitting outside on the patio for example eating but found out later that was not the fact. The distance was lied about and in essence the whole thing was 'spun'

They left those kids alone in a foreign country a good distance away while they ate and drank with their friends. They could not see the apartment even as proven by pictures taken from the scene and I also have a friend who has a goulish sense of nature and actually went to visit the site. He told me you can only see the top of the apartment from the Tapas Bar and you would literally need to be standing up all night and watching directly.

The McCann's immediately told the story of 'abduction' from day 1 and there is no evidence to substantiate this story. It is much more likely she died in the apartment and the death was covered up. This is why I now feel I was conned into donating money. Due to the way the press in the UK are reporting this case I feel that a lot of people are still being conned although the truth of the matter or rather the truth of the lie is leaking out there in small bits.


@vaguely1 wrote:
@simplyme wrote:I find I am getting quite annoyed here so I am going to stop. I like to debate but its hard going when no matter what you say it comes down to opposing views. I really would like to know what happened to this poor child. My heart goes out for her little life which I believe was snuffed out way to soon. Im sorry but i dont believe the McCann hype, I think they know far more than they are saying.

I will only say this

LET THE MCCANNS HAVE THEIR DAY IN COURT

if they are found 'innocent' of neglect etc.. then I will shut up forever. At the very least there should be a trial, an inquest or something.


You cannot take a person to court when a crime hasn't been committed, I sense your frustration, but in order to take a case to court there needs to be evidence of neglect. The children were left alone for what appears to be 30 minutes at a time, in a building that was in view of the parents - I think a prosecutor would struggle with securing a neglect charge.....otherwise they would have been charged. All the cases that I've seen prosecuted recently have differed from what seems to have happened that night.

Can I ask why you donated after you knew the children had been left alone if you felt as strongly as you do?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aiyoyo on 03.02.10 5:39

Actually it will be interesting to see whether the mccanns will use their own money to search for Maddie if they are so very adamant she is alive and wont give up on her.

Why do they need other peopl's money to continue the search?They could down size their house for a start, then people may take them seriously.

Marketing her and suing people for dough are not going to earn them any respect.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by marigold on 03.02.10 19:50

Vaguely, Madeleine was left alone on at least one occasion for a lot longer than 30 minutes, she was crying for two and a half hours as a witness has confirmed. She was exposed to many dangers including the terror of waking alone in the dark and no one there to comfort her. If that's not neglect what is? In the recent hearing, it wa said that the PJ were considering prosecuting them for neglect but they were caught up with the more serious concern of whether the Mccanns were guilty of much more.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by figaro on 03.02.10 20:25

They havent gained a penny for themselves. The fund is managed by a group of people, the accounts are audited. The money is going on funding for searching for madeliene. It is used for marketing to ensure people still remember to look out for her and its used for private investigators.

Correct me if I am wrong but I havent seen the McCanns driving round in a Jaguar?

E.T.A...mrs Fenns statement....have you got a link to where she says she heard madeleine crying please?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Pascal on 03.02.10 20:30

On paper the McCanns haven't gained a penny. But they will likely have claimed expenses.

I'm particularly interested in the actual physical search for Madeleine. Who is actually 'searching' and how? Does anyone know? Has there been any sort of progess report?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Kololi on 03.02.10 21:03

Hi
Can we be sure that the McCanns did not gain a penny for themselves?

Wasn't there two mortgage payments paid for them from that fund?

A quick jolly away to see the Pope - did they pay for that trip or did the fund pay and as it was unlikely that he could tell them where Madeleine was, was it an expense that, if it came from the fund, they could have saved for the actual search for their daughter?

Take care

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by figaro on 03.02.10 21:11

The fund stated that it would pay their living costs and as they were not working they didnt have an income. It wasnt kept quiet that the fund would pay for their living costs IIRC. Of course the alternative was for them to have to sell the house.....but that would have left the twins with yet more upheaval and Im sure that many people didnt mind them using that money for their mortgage....I certainly didnt. No other payments were taken for the mortgage as far as i am aware.

I wouldnt call visiting the Pope a Jolly. It was for comfort and strength. I really don't see the issue with the fund thinking

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Pascal on 03.02.10 21:20

While they are fund raising - they don't go out of their way to advertise the fact that the monies can be used for their living expenses. Perhaps they should.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Cath on 03.02.10 21:42

As regarding to the question : "who's actually searching", which is a good question by itself, I'd say it's hard to know what's done. If they've got a clue where she might be, it's unlikely it's published before that clue is investigated properly.
And if they don't have a clue, where should they start? If alive she can be anywhere. If dead she'll be probably close to PdL, but still there remains the question : where to start searching?
And if they know where her body is, they've had plenty of time to think of a plan to have her found and bury her. No need to spend money on detectives etc.

So my best guess is, Dave & co. are going through the files, hoping to find a clue. They're going through the tips/clues people sent them. Most of these tips are probably well meant but worthless. And flying over to Portugal in case they need to. Didn't Dave visit Portugal recently?
Wonder what's happened to those tips to that line Haligen's set up? If they ever got hold of them. I recall someone stating in a paper they weren't passed onto the investigators?

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by aiyoyo on 05.02.10 9:16

@figaro wrote:They havent gained a penny for themselves. The fund is managed by a group of people, the accounts are audited. The money is going on funding for searching for madeliene. It is used for marketing to ensure people still remember to look out for her and its used for private investigators.

Correct me if I am wrong but I havent seen the McCanns driving round in a Jaguar?

E.T.A...mrs Fenns statement....have you got a link to where she says she heard madeleine crying please?

I should hope not (pocket the penny?), but they have definitely benefited from it!

Trips, flights, accomodations, image consultants and lawyers fee all paid out of the fund to damage control their reputation, and God only knows what else.

The money is not used to search for Maddie as in the true sense of the word, as in follow up sightings and physically searching.

It was used to pay 3rd rate and dodgy PIs all in the guise of searching. Dont bother rebutting with more lies because if they're dead serious about the search and getting her back, they should demonstrate some real searching involving the police. Also, no need to rely STRICTLY on people's money for one's own problem surely?

They said they intended keeping the fund running for as long as possible in order to keep the search going. I take it to mean when the fund runs dry...then the search for Maddie no longer matters. Or What's next? Are they going to beg in the street rather than cash in their assets. And if they got nothing in the street, does it mean the search is no longer priority.

Let me get this right then - for as long they people donate, the search for Maddie is on. When people's money is gone - sorry Maddie, too bad mummy and daddy got no money - is that it? Is that what you called 'search for Maddie' or that the search is their priority? I beg to differ - I think the FUND is their priority for reasons known to them.

However, I agree with this sentence of yours : "it is used for marketing to ensure people still remember to look out for her".

As your correctly pointed out, it is used for marketing! The question is marketing who? Marketing Maddie for Money? or Marketing themselves for innocent? Either way, marketing and publicity won't find back a child, working with the police may. As for that bit "ensure people still remember to look out for her" 1) what is strong with the parents themselves physically looking (not as if the fund is dry) and following up leads at least and 2) If they can't do it, how or what do they expect people to do about it on top of the "still remember" expectation of course? The way I see it, you seem to think people's life should revolve around the mccanns and that people 'should ensure they still remember to look out for Maddie' - what a laugh!

And if par hazard someone reported a sighting? Are they going to follow up by btw or are they going to pass on that info to the police? So far they haven't done much, if fact nothing, in that aspect, so what's the bloody use, or what's going to change may I ask?

With their kind of publicity, Maddie capturer (presuming there was one) would have murdered her to prevent himself being caught complicited in it. Again assuming she is captured and still alive, I still have faith in people doing their good citizen duty publicity or no publicity.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Cherry on 05.02.10 10:49

The people who donated to the Fund could be contacting the relevant authorities to say they gave their donation in good faith and they find that money has been used for purposes other than that which it was stated it would be used for. I would have thought personally this should be deemed as fraudulent activity when the public were clearly misled, and as has been discussed before the public were misled into believing the Fund was a charity imo.

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Re: Dramatic Fall in McCann Donations

Post by Cath on 05.02.10 11:20

@Cherry wrote:The people who donated to the Fund could be contacting the relevant authorities to say they gave their donation in good faith and they find that money has been used for purposes other than that which it was stated it would be used for. I would have thought personally this should be deemed as fraudulent activity when the public were clearly misled, and as has been discussed before the public were misled into believing the Fund was a charity imo.

I don't know if or who's misled the public.

The website states :
About the Fund
Madeleine's Fund - 'Leaving No Stone Unturned' is a not-for-profit company which has been established to find Madeleine McCann, support her family and bring her abductors to justice.


http://findmadeleine.com/about-us/madeleines-fund.html

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