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Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 04.02.10 22:05

@bellatrix wrote:
jkh wrote:So you don't think they are messing with the twins heads then by pretending that Maddie is sending them gifts whilst being held hostage by a paedophile in a secret lair and is being treated like a princess and there is no evidence that any harm has come to her?

Bless.


As we have no proof that ANY of this has been said or even hinted at to the twins it is very misleading to state it as fact imo.

It's been published in the press.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by twinkle on 04.02.10 22:10

But like I said in my last post, if anyone other than the lovely vaguely read it, we are all messing with our kids heads in one way or another.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Cath on 04.02.10 22:11

Oh come on Jill, there's been loads of rubbish printed in the press.
By now we should be used to that.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 04.02.10 22:14

Oh come on Inyx, this is about a missing child, presumed dead.

Rather important dont you think?

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Cath on 04.02.10 22:16

@twinkle wrote:But like I said in my last post, if anyone other than the lovely vaguely read it, we are all messing with our kids heads in one way or another.

I've read it. And agree. thumbsup
But it's not only parents who are messing with the kids heads, without realising it.
Like some teachers often don't realise the impact they've got on youngsters.
Last weekend I've seen a child in tears about that.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Kololi on 04.02.10 22:31

Hi Jill
I don't like mind games full stop prefering instead plain old honesty.

I am not sure however, that they are messing with the childrens' heads. I think it could be quite cruel for those children and for Madeleine in particular if she was not included in such special events.

How do we know that the children didn't either at one Xmas or on one of Madeleine's birthday not ask where Madeleine's presents were? Maybe this gift from Madeleine was actually instigated by something one or both of the twins said to their mum and dad - they sowed a seed so to speak.

Do relatives of dead people not put flowers on their graves? We could take a rather harsh line there and say that as they know they are dead they shouldn't waste their time because after all we all know that the dead person can't smell the flowers or touch them or see them being laid and, therefore they were only screwing with their own heads unecessarily. To the grieving person it is much more than a waste of time. It is a show of respect of caring and gives many a sense of closeness to the person that has gone.

If it was shown that Madeleine was dead and they still did this would it seem so odd? I don't think so. I think that I would probably do the same if one of my children died or was missing, location and consequences unknown. I think that I would always write a card from them on my other child's birthday and give it to them so that they never forgot that they did have a sibling and should cherish all the memories they had of that brother or sister.

Maybe, just maybe the gift was a similar token as the person who lays flowers on a loved ones grave and whilst I do think that the McCanns got things wrong on that holiday, I would never dream of thinking that they should not be allowed to keep Madeleine's memory alive to her younger brother and sister in whatever way they see fit. I say that for the younger children and particularly for Madeleine because the day they stop including her is the day she is truly lost forever.

Take care

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Kololi on 04.02.10 22:36

Twinkle your post hit home for me too.

A long time ago I was bringing my children up alone as their father and I split up. I had a job but obviously the money didn't go as far as it did with two earners.

I used to be quite twitchy about leaving lights on in rooms we weren't in to try and keep the electric bill down until the day I over heard my five year old son getting quite cross with his older sister for leaving a light on in her room.

I thought I had done so well keeping my worries and upset hidden until I heard this and needless to say, after that incident the house was lit up like a ruddy Xmas tree by me and to hell with worrying about saving a few pennies on an electric bill.

Take care

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by twinkle on 04.02.10 22:41

But the thing is we are not bad parents because of this Koloki.
We are just living life, learning lessons along the way.. aren't we.

thumbsup

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Autumn on 04.02.10 22:42

@twinkle wrote:But like I said in my last post, if anyone other than the lovely vaguely read it, we are all messing with our kids heads in one way or another.

Twinkle, there is a huge difference between what you describe in your post and brainwashing your children into believing that that their sister, despite being held captive in lair somewhere near PDL, is allowed out to deliver presents to the family. You do not need to be a phycologist to realize that the twins will be very confused by this and, in time, will probably be very angry with their parents for deceiving them. I cannot think that anyone involved in child welfare would advise the McCanns to play games regarding their sister's whereabouts. They will be devasted when it eventually dawns on them that Maddie has not been sending prezzies to them - hope the McCanns have already pre-booked the twins' therapy sessions as they are going to need them.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by twinkle on 04.02.10 22:48

I couldn't possibly comment on whether they are right or wrong in their actions regarding what they tell the twins, neither could I predict the effect it will have on them as they get older.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Pascal on 04.02.10 23:05

@Kololi wrote:Hi Jill
I don't like mind games full stop prefering instead plain old honesty.

I am not sure however, that they are messing with the childrens' heads. I think it could be quite cruel for those children and for Madeleine in particular if she was not included in such special events.

How do we know that the children didn't either at one Xmas or on one of Madeleine's birthday not ask where Madeleine's presents were? Maybe this gift from Madeleine was actually instigated by something one or both of the twins said to their mum and dad - they sowed a seed so to speak.

Do relatives of dead people not put flowers on their graves? We could take a rather harsh line there and say that as they know they are dead they shouldn't waste their time because after all we all know that the dead person can't smell the flowers or touch them or see them being laid and, therefore they were only screwing with their own heads unecessarily. To the grieving person it is much more than a waste of time. It is a show of respect of caring and gives many a sense of closeness to the person that has gone.

If it was shown that Madeleine was dead and they still did this would it seem so odd? I don't think so. I think that I would probably do the same if one of my children died or was missing, location and consequences unknown. I think that I would always write a card from them on my other child's birthday and give it to them so that they never forgot that they did have a sibling and should cherish all the memories they had of that brother or sister.

Maybe, just maybe the gift was a similar token as the person who lays flowers on a loved ones grave and whilst I do think that the McCanns got things wrong on that holiday, I would never dream of thinking that they should not be allowed to keep Madeleine's memory alive to her younger brother and sister in whatever way they see fit. I say that for the younger children and particularly for Madeleine because the day they stop including her is the day she is truly lost forever.

Take care

Excellent post thumbsup

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Pascal on 04.02.10 23:19

I think it's sad that there is such strong divisions over this issue and that of what we perceive as neglect.

I honestly hand on heart cannot see anything wrong with the present from Madeleine thing. It doesn't mean I don't question what happened on that holiday, which in my opinion is far more important.

These petty disagreements are fragmenting this nice forum. No one should be judged on what they truly believe or how they interpret the files or indeed the actions of the Madeleine Foundation. Yet there are snide comments addressed at perfectly polite posters.

Not everyone here supports the Foundation. I think that is a point of fact that should be accepted. If the Foundation has nothing to hide then it's representative shouldn't be bothered about a few awkward questions.

I think we have to accept that there will be differences in opinion. There's been enough cyber blood spilt over this case.

Just sayin'

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by aiyoyo on 05.02.10 8:02

@Pascal wrote:II honestly hand on heart cannot see anything wrong with the present from Madeleine thing. It doesn't mean I don't question what happened on that holiday, which in my opinion is far more important.


Maddie's present is not so much an issue; the bigger issue is that the mccanns saw fit to tell the press of such trivial as their daily in and out. Why should that be in the public interest to know? Could it be perhaps the mccanns are at another self promoting publicity? Trying to portray themselves as caring parents - isnt it too late, at least where Maddie is concerned! And if not for Maddie's purpose, why announced it?

TBH, if you ask me, children's (age of the twins) understanding of a b/day party is limited to fun and presents. They havent a clue or give two monkeys who should buy them presents or who should do what? If the mccanns chose to buy a gift being representative from Maddie - fine. Taking aside people's concern why they mucked up the twins' cerveau with spin about Maddie - that's besides the point. The pertinent question is: Why announced it publicly - what's their aim? Any idea iyo by chance?
Otherwise people wouldnt be any wiser and wouldnt be discussing it negatively - they brought it on themselves - dont you think so?

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by vaguely1 on 05.02.10 8:24

It wasn't a press release, it was a vacuous piece of journalism. In fact I almost seem to remember I read the same thing last year. Maybe someone just recycled it.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Cath on 05.02.10 9:24

jkh wrote:Oh come on Inyx, this is about a missing child, presumed dead.

Rather important dont you think?

Jill is the site having glitches? When I pushed the "send" button (my reply to this post of you) I got banned. Thanks for solving it though. Back OT.

This isn't about a missing child, this article (The Sun) is about the twins birthday and it's quoting an unnamed source.
Like Vaguely1 wrote, this article is almost similar to the article that was printed last year.
And now we're all discussing if it's right or wrong to to give the twins a birthday present from their missing sister. And we're making assumptions about what they've told the twins.
On top of that, some of us are making accusations it's causing psychological damage to the twins.

All of it caused by a sentimental (rubbish) article in a tabloid.
We don't know what's happened in PdL.
We don't know what they've told the twins. We don't know if they've asked (psychological) advice on what's best to do.
It's a way of keeping her memory alive, who are we to judge that?

Kololi has said it so much better thumbsup

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by aiyoyo on 05.02.10 10:02

Keeping her memory alive is all very well and good for them.
Why is it important for the public to know or is public supposed to keep her memory alive as well?

I fully understand it is important for them to keep her memory alive, the Sun bit I dont understand tbh.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Cath on 05.02.10 10:15

I don't understand either why the Sun publishes articles like this.
Does it increase sales? Hardly likely imo.
Human interest story? The kind of thing their public wants to read?

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Pascal on 05.02.10 11:54

I think the McCanns have been caught up in their own pr and are very badly advised.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Cath on 05.02.10 11:58

You're probably right Pascal.
Woofall, McGuiness, Mitchell.
They all have/had their own agenda.
Right or wrong, all of them made money out of this.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by Kololi on 05.02.10 12:46

Hi
I couldn't agree more about the publicity of the gift - it actually wasn't necessary. I bet the McCann's are regretting having told a journalist about it too now having read some of the posts on forums like this this one and others, if indeed, it was them that told.

They are being damned for making this inclusive gesture for Madeleine but I am prepared to wager that had it been printed in papers that there was no gift for the twins on their birthday from Madeleine they would have been damned for that too. I am guessing it would be something along the lines of, "Oh look they are forgetting her already". Of course, we will never know that for sure now but that's where I would place my money. Damned for doing and equally damned had they not.

I will never be able with hand on heart say that I can understand what they did on that holiday and I do feel they were selfish and put themselves before the children, thus jepordising the childrens' safety and Madeleiene has paid the greatest price of all of them for their selfishness.

They don't come across even as a likeable couple for me but are we not getting a little side tracked by some of the unimportant stuff? Discussing shoes that Kate McCann is wearing at their celebrity bash really isn't going to help uncover what happened to Madeleine is it and yet on MM forum she was torn into for that. A forum that says it cares about Madeleine. Please explain how ripping apart Kate McCann's choice of shoes will help find out the truth of Madeleine's disappearnace and her current whereabouts? She could have gone bare foot or in wellington boots - what does it honestly matter when considering the reason a good many of us offer up as to why we are here - justice for Madeleine.

Whether they give their twins a present from Madeleine doesn't really matter - it doesn't tell us the whereabouts of Madeleine McCann and why she ended up where ever she might be.

Take care

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by vaguely1 on 05.02.10 13:06

Very well said.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by aliberte2 on 05.02.10 20:47

@Kololi wrote:Hi Alberte
Please correct me if I am wrong but I am getting a little confused now
flower

How is this case a criminal case? There is no body. Isn't that why no criminal proceedings were brought against the McCanns?

Help me understand this please :)

Take care

Oh, We meant About the Neglect Charge. We just Meant that Because the Neglect Charge is a criminal Charge, they have to Form a Certain Mind Set - and the Checks Make it Very Difficult for the Authorities to Show Show they Formed the Necessary Mindset.

In other words, The Authorities Can't Prove Neglect via Negligence. It has to Be more than That.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by aliberte2 on 05.02.10 20:51

It's ridiculous to think the Twins Know or Were told that Madeleine is Being Held Captive in PDL and is Sneaking out to Give them Presents.

Honesty, the Hysterics say More about the People saying them then the McCanns or the Case.

All they No Doubt know is She is Missing and Mummy and Daddy are Trying to find Her. They're Five. they're not reading this website.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by twinkle on 06.02.10 22:35

@Kololi wrote:Hi
I couldn't agree more about the publicity of the gift - it actually wasn't necessary. I bet the McCann's are regretting having told a journalist about it too now having read some of the posts on forums like this this one and others, if indeed, it was them that told.

They are being damned for making this inclusive gesture for Madeleine but I am prepared to wager that had it been printed in papers that there was no gift for the twins on their birthday from Madeleine they would have been damned for that too. I am guessing it would be something along the lines of, "Oh look they are forgetting her already". Of course, we will never know that for sure now but that's where I would place my money. Damned for doing and equally damned had they not.

I will never be able with hand on heart say that I can understand what they did on that holiday and I do feel they were selfish and put themselves before the children, thus jepordising the childrens' safety and Madeleiene has paid the greatest price of all of them for their selfishness.

They don't come across even as a likeable couple for me but are we not getting a little side tracked by some of the unimportant stuff? Discussing shoes that Kate McCann is wearing at their celebrity bash really isn't going to help uncover what happened to Madeleine is it and yet on MM forum she was torn into for that. A forum that says it cares about Madeleine. Please explain how ripping apart Kate McCann's choice of shoes will help find out the truth of Madeleine's disappearnace and her current whereabouts? She could have gone bare foot or in wellington boots - what does it honestly matter when considering the reason a good many of us offer up as to why we are here - justice for Madeleine.

Whether they give their twins a present from Madeleine doesn't really matter - it doesn't tell us the whereabouts of Madeleine McCann and why she ended up where ever she might be.

Take care

I totally agree with what you say. It seems whatever they do it will be picked apart by some.

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Re: Birthday Gift from Maddie - 'The Sun' 1st Feb 2010

Post by marigold on 07.02.10 21:15

@twinkle wrote:
@Kololi wrote:Hi
I couldn't agree more about the publicity of the gift - it actually wasn't necessary. I bet the McCann's are regretting having told a journalist about it too now having read some of the posts on forums like this this one and others, if indeed, it was them that told.

They are being damned for making this inclusive gesture for Madeleine but I am prepared to wager that had it been printed in papers that there was no gift for the twins on their birthday from Madeleine they would have been damned for that too. I am guessing it would be something along the lines of, "Oh look they are forgetting her already". Of course, we will never know that for sure now but that's where I would place my money. Damned for doing and equally damned had they not.

I will never be able with hand on heart say that I can understand what they did on that holiday and I do feel they were selfish and put themselves before the children, thus jepordising the childrens' safety and Madeleiene has paid the greatest price of all of them for their selfishness.

They don't come across even as a likeable couple for me but are we not getting a little side tracked by some of the unimportant stuff? Discussing shoes that Kate McCann is wearing at their celebrity bash really isn't going to help uncover what happened to Madeleine is it and yet on MM forum she was torn into for that. A forum that says it cares about Madeleine. Please explain how ripping apart Kate McCann's choice of shoes will help find out the truth of Madeleine's disappearnace and her current whereabouts? She could have gone bare foot or in wellington boots - what does it honestly matter when considering the reason a good many of us offer up as to why we are here - justice for Madeleine.

Whether they give their twins a present from Madeleine doesn't really matter - it doesn't tell us the whereabouts of Madeleine McCann and why she ended up where ever she might be.

Take care

I totally agree with what you say. It seems whatever they do it will be picked apart by some.

And whatever they do or say, however reprehensible and shocking, it will be deemed acceptable by some. tearhairout

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