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Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Me on 08.12.11 14:27

@nomendelta wrote:The arrogance of this woman continues to astonish me! "They could have just asked". Yes, because that's how police investigations work, isn't it? They ask questions and people answer and that's it - no need to check on stories matching, no need to look for corroboritive evidence, no need to check pesky things like DNA, no need to stage reconstructions.

I'm beginning to think they live in a parallel reality.

It’s clear right from the start that the McCann’s felt and still feel now they had a divine right to be treated differently to anyone else in a similar situation.

They have felt, and there’s ample evidence in their press reports and the book, that the police had no right to even look at them, their actions and conduct in relation to the disappearance of their child.

The pertinent question is why they think they should be treated differently.

Now we know they’re professional people, we also know Gerry had a lot of material regarding protocols for missing children, so why were they surprised and disgusted at being treated as suspects? They knew (or certainly by the time they were suspects they should have known) that protocols would dictate the PJ would look first at family and close friends, particularly in the absence of any reliable evidence pointing to abduction.

They claim there was no evidence pointing in their direction, but at the time it was an on-going case, with evidence continuing to be gathered, so it stands to reason at the point of being suspected there wasn’t the overwhelming evidence the McCann’s felt there should have been against them before they were even looked at.

The police felt they were suspects based on what they had at that time, informed them accordingly and started looking further into their actions, statements and conducts in order to either build a stronger case against them or to discount them. That’s one of the reasons why Kate’s defence to not answering the 48 questions is so lame.

The McCann’s knew there was a lack of evidence for abduction and they knew of the dogs’ findings. Now irrespective of the question regarding the reliability of the dogs, the fact is they located too many times in too many locations only to the McCann’s and their property / locations for it not to be suspicious. It’s hard to argue reliability if they have alerted 10 times to items linked only to the McCann’s and no one else. The McCann’s should and would have known this.

Why fight it at that point? Why not simply say “right we can see where this is going let’s sort this out, answer every question until you have ruled us out”. Where is the benefit in innocent parties not assisting the PJ in their enquiries into their missing child? What did they hope to achieve? By not assisting all they did was funnel the investigation into looking ever deeper at them rather than hunting for an abductor, as they so badly wanted the PJ to do.

They will have known as well that their actions and refusal to co-operate would have heaped further suspicion on them at the expense of looking at other avenues yet they selfishly persisted in refusing to assist the PJ in ruling themselves and their friends out of the frame. Why would they do this if they were innocent and wanted the PJ to look elsewhere? It wasn’t the PJ hindering the investigation it was them.

They were being framed? Why would they even think you were being fitted up? The case was too high profile to believe that the PJ would or even could so crudely frame them. The eyes of the world were on the investigation, how would the PJ expect to get away with it and what would be the repercussions for Portugal and the investigators within the PJ if it transpired that was what they were trying to do?

They expected and still expect now with the SY review to be kept informed of all developments, as if they are heading the entire investigation. This despite them never having (in the words of the archiving report) “proved their innocence”.

They will have read this report, after all it was the sole basis of their arguments against Amaral’s book, so why do they feel, whilst still officially unable to prove their innocence they should be allowed to access, coordinate and oversee the investigation? What makes them so special that despite the fact the investigation archive stated they hadn’t proven their innocence, they should be able to demand to be informed of the progress of the review and investigation?

Let's not not forget either their futile attempts, through the courts, to get hold of Leicestershire Police's files as well.

They are not thick people so clearly one has to look at their motives for doing this.

The only viable conclusion left is that they didn’t want the police to look at them because they had something that didn’t want the PJ to find. After all why refuse to perform the reconstruction? How many other cases of missing people do relatives refuse to take part in a reconstruction? How would this refusal assist the PJ in finding their missing child?

In much the same way, why do they insist on being kept informed as to the investigation’s progress when they haven’t proven their innocence? Again one can only conclude by being kept informed they can keep ahead of the game and prepare in advance should it go in a direction not in their favour.

But the bottom line is they do not have this right to not be treated as suspects when their actions and statements at the time and since, and the lack of any viable evidence of abduction, makes them the only suspects worth investigating.

They know, we know it and I hope and pray SY knows it.

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What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by happychick on 08.12.11 14:38

@Me wrote:They were being framed? Why would they even think you were being fitted up? The case was too high profile to believe that the PJ would or even could so crudely frame them. The eyes of the world were on the investigation, how would the PJ expect to get away with it and what would be the repercussions for Portugal and the investigators within the PJ if it transpired that was what they were trying to do?

The eyes of the world are on the SY review too, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there will still be a cover up. If they can do it to David Kelly, Princess Di etc they can do it for these child neglectors. Don't know why though.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Me on 08.12.11 14:42

@happychick wrote:
@Me wrote:They were being framed? Why would they even think you were being fitted up? The case was too high profile to believe that the PJ would or even could so crudely frame them. The eyes of the world were on the investigation, how would the PJ expect to get away with it and what would be the repercussions for Portugal and the investigators within the PJ if it transpired that was what they were trying to do?

The eyes of the world are on the SY review too, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that there will still be a cover up. If they can do it to David Kelly, Princess Di etc they can do it for these child neglectors. Don't know why though.

The difference is if they were fitted up in Portugal it would have gone to trial where it could be picked apart by defence counsel. Equally the Portugese files are released into the Public domain for examination

If SY whitewash this then no-one will ever find out because there will be no trial to expose the white wash and no released files to examine the investigation.

It's easier for a whitewash in the SY review than it would have been for a prosecution in Portugal.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Guest on 08.12.11 14:50

Don't forget also the cover ups at Haute de la Garenne and Casa Pia. I happen to think the the three-way Bermuda Triange could somehow be connected.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by jd on 08.12.11 14:52

@Me wrote:
If SY whitewash this then no-one will ever find out because there will be no trial to expose the white wash and no released files to examine the investigation

I think this is the real reason behind the SY review.....to whitewash it

Which in turn also means that anyone who has theory against the mccanns will be further open to being sued, hence more money to the fund....brilliant strategy if you have the 'friends' in the right places!! they all win

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Guest on 08.12.11 14:57

This is a Portuguese investigation remember !!! (hold that thought)

Socrates will not be in charge of Portugal forever and all it takes is just one new lead to re open the Portuguese investigation.

Goncalo Amaral has not given up the fight and neither should we, SY or no SY.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by puzzled on 08.12.11 15:02

@PeterMac wrote:
p. 330 "The PJ appear to have been determined to prove we’d brought these posters on holiday with us from Britain. They sent them to a forensics lab for analysis, asking for information on how old they were and how they had been printed and cut. Having established that Kodak paper had been used, they contacted a Kodak representative to find out where this paper could have been bought. I was so exasperated to read all this. There was a much easier, more obvious way of confirming how and where these posters were produced. They could have just asked. As it was, it took them until April 2008 to verify that the posters had been run off, on the night of the abduction, by Amy Tierney, the Mark Warner duty manager, using her own Kodak paper and her own Kodak printer."

It's unbelievable the amount of resentment they have against the police for just doing their job, isn't it?

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by puzzled on 08.12.11 15:09

@Me wrote:
The pertinent question is why they think they should be treated differently.


A lot of narcissists and psychopaths think like this. They think the entire world revolves around them, and if anything happens that inconveniences them, then it's all part of some plot against them on the part of the world! A sense of entitlement, a lack of ability to take responsibility for their own actions, and a grudge against the world are all characteristic of this sort of disorder.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Me on 08.12.11 15:14

@puzzled wrote:
@Me wrote:
The pertinent question is why they think they should be treated differently.


A lot of narcissists and psychopaths think like this. They think the entire world revolves around them, and if anything happens that inconveniences them, then it's all part of some plot against them on the part of the world! A sense of entitlement, a lack of ability to take responsibility for their own actions, and a grudge against the world are all characteristic of this sort of disorder.

I think that does apply here with them but more than that i feel the real answer is much simpler. They want to be treated differently because to be treated as "normal" suspects leads them down a path they fear to tread.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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narcissism

Post by russiandoll on 09.12.11 18:09

plenty of examples of this in the book......none worse than the words of Kate with regard to her treatment by the police in Portugal.
"OUR DAUGHTER HAD DISAPPEARED AND I FELT AS IF I DIDN'T EXIST." [ this because they were too busy chatting, smoking to offer her food and or drink or tell her where the toilet was....she could not ask for directions then ???].
it was mid morning Kate and most reasonable people would presume you had eaten breakfast, [that is if you had any appetite].

how could any reasonable person object to the police's behaviour, given what they were dealing with...how could anyone be preoccupied with such trivia??
truly disgusting.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Guest on 11.12.11 11:38

Here we go again. According to the Express SY are off to Spain again .........



MADELEINE DETECTIVE FLY TO SPAIN



Detectives will fly to Spain to pursue leads Madeleine McCann was kidnapped by organised criminals




Sunday December 11,2011


By James Murray


SCOTLAND Yard detectives will fly to Spain to pursue leads that Madeleine McCann was kidnapped to order by organised criminals.


When three officers flew to Barcelona for two days last month they met detectives from Spain’s Drugs and Organised Crime Unit.

One theory being considered is that Madeleine’s abduction was part of a sophisticated child kidnap racket, possibly involving Spanish gypsies.

The McCann’s private investigator Dave Edgar has had discussions with Scotland Yard about a woman in Barcelona who has never been traced.

Four days after Madeleine vanished from Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3, 2007, the woman, a Victoria Beckham lookalike, spoke to a British man on a stag night and asked him a strange question along the lines of: “Have you got her? Have you got the child?”

She appeared to be expecting to meet a man at 2am who would be handing over a child.

Scotland Yard will be examining that contact.


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/289212/Madeleine-detective-fly-to-Spain

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candyfloss

Post by russiandoll on 11.12.11 11:46

this might be what is fed to the media.......I doubt that is the only line of enquiry though as it is described as a through review or examination of the evidence.......some of which points to the tapas lot knowing just what happened.
SY know the definiton of closing or archiving a case........not case solved. Means not enough evidence to bring charges but police have a damned good idea of who is/are involved.
I have to have faith in this review...or my optimism for a just outcome will vanish just like this little child.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Guest on 11.12.11 22:22

From The Blacksmith Bureau (re detectives going to Barcelona) ...................................

Sunday, 11 December 2011

Spinning in the wind


http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.com/

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Guest on 11.12.11 23:35

Ho ho ho Candyfloss roses

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by kikoraton on 28.12.11 13:35

A very sensible article by blacksmith, see just above. Gonçalo will need facts, facts, facts, and not froth.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by tigger on 28.12.11 16:03

@kikoraton wrote:A very sensible article by blacksmith, see just above. Gonçalo will need facts, facts, facts, and not froth.

Yes, but surely there was the initial evidence of the DNA. I believe the Portugese did their own analyses, so it can't be totally dependent on the whooshed results from FSS. This is a Portugese case, so they can accept their own evidence in the case.
Neither have they published all the information, such as all the phone pings.
Then there is the fact that just leaving children in a vulnerable situation - on purpose, as the McCanns fully admit, is punishable in Portugal.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Pershing36 on 29.12.11 0:07

This neglecting even though being as serious as it is, is a non starter. They have got away with it in Portugal and the UK I really cannot see them ever being charged with that.

The problem is if they are guilty of wrong doing what evidence will be required to charge them? Everything so far hasn't been enough. If that poor little girl is deceased and her body turns up then there is no doubt it will still be portrayed as the work of the mystery child abductor/abductors.

I strongly fear this will be a crime that will never be solved.


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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by tigger on 29.12.11 7:42

@Pershing36 wrote:This neglecting even though being as serious as it is, is a non starter. They have got away with it in Portugal and the UK I really cannot see them ever being charged with that.

The problem is if they are guilty of wrong doing what evidence will be required to charge them? Everything so far hasn't been enough. If that poor little girl is deceased and her body turns up then there is no doubt it will still be portrayed as the work of the mystery child abductor/abductors.

I strongly fear this will be a crime that will never be solved.

I think the crime is solved, there's just not going to be retribution by law.
I don't think they'll ever go to prison, not that that would solve anything anyway. I want them to shut up, if possible a good home found for the twins and the two of them to work! NZ would perhaps be good.
I just want Amaral to win and win big. I want Pat to get publicity and her book to be a best seller, since she is donating to real charities.

On the plus side, there is such a thing as charity fatigue. Even misguided souls who believe them are getting fed up seeing the same miserable faces and whining complaints.
The punishment is already taking place, remember how they looked and behaved in the early days, young, sporty - smooth-faced, adored by most.
Now they look middle-aged, tired and ever more desperate for air time. Give it up, you're more Eastenders than Hello.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 29.12.11 7:45

@Pershing36 wrote:This neglecting even though being as serious as it is, is a non starter. They have got away with it in Portugal and the UK I really cannot see them ever being charged with that.

The problem is if they are guilty of wrong doing what evidence will be required to charge them? Everything so far hasn't been enough. If that poor little girl is deceased and her body turns up then there is no doubt it will still be portrayed as the work of the mystery child abductor/abductors.

I strongly fear this will be a crime that will never be solved.


Gonçalo Amaral: “This litigation will carry a heavy price – but I have faith that the mystery will be resolved. Even if I “disappear” in the process - as Kate McCann has written that she wishes I would in her book - I have a daughter and lots of friends who will make sure justice is done”

Gonçalo Amaral: “Justice works in silence”

Gonçalo Amaral: "The investigation will be concluded, it will be reopened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want."

Gonçalo Amaral: "There are hundreds of indications, clues regarding a certain event; and it is that event that some people do not accept and want to conceal."

Gonçalo Amaral: "It's too big and too serious a burden to be concealed by so many people for their entire lives."

Gonçalo Amaral: “There are things that I haven’t said yet”

Gonçalo Amaral: "I am not shutting up"

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Cheshire Cat on 29.12.11 8:48

@tigger wrote:
@Pershing36 wrote:This neglecting even though being as serious as it is, is a non starter. They have got away with it in Portugal and the UK I really cannot see them ever being charged with that.

The problem is if they are guilty of wrong doing what evidence will be required to charge them? Everything so far hasn't been enough. If that poor little girl is deceased and her body turns up then there is no doubt it will still be portrayed as the work of the mystery child abductor/abductors.

I strongly fear this will be a crime that will never be solved.

I think the crime is solved, there's just not going to be retribution by law.
I don't think they'll ever go to prison, not that that would solve anything anyway. I want them to shut up, if possible a good home found for the twins and the two of them to work! NZ would perhaps be good.
I just want Amaral to win and win big. I want Pat to get publicity and her book to be a best seller, since she is donating to real charities.

On the plus side, there is such a thing as charity fatigue. Even misguided souls who believe them are getting fed up seeing the same miserable faces and whining complaints.
The punishment is already taking place, remember how they looked and behaved in the early days, young, sporty - smooth-faced, adored by most.
Now they look middle-aged, tired and ever more desperate for air time. Give it up, you're more Eastenders than Hello.

I agree, the crime has pretty much been solved. The evidence is there for those that care to look. What I hope for is that the truth becomes common knowledge and perhaps Pat B will write a billion seller about the case one day.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Guest on 29.12.11 9:34

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:Gonçalo Amaral: "The investigation will be concluded, it will be reopened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want."
And that is all we need to remember folks. Mrs

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 29.12.11 9:47

Stella wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:Gonçalo Amaral: "The investigation will be concluded, it will be reopened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want."
And that is all we need to remember folks. Mrs

Indeed.

I should change my name to Get 'em Gonçalo! coffee


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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Guest on 29.12.11 10:17

Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:
Stella wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:Gonçalo Amaral: "The investigation will be concluded, it will be reopened and it will be taken to an end; and justice will be made, that is all that we want."
And that is all we need to remember folks. Mrs

Indeed.

I should change my name to Get 'em Gonçalo! coffee

But your already Get'em Goncalo. confused

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Pershing36 on 29.12.11 12:59

@tigger wrote:


I think the crime is solved, there's just not going to be retribution by law.
I don't think they'll ever go to prison, not that that would solve anything anyway. I want them to shut up, if possible a good home found for the twins and the two of them to work! NZ would perhaps be good.
I just want Amaral to win and win big. I want Pat to get publicity and her book to be a best seller, since she is donating to real charities.
.

I really can't say it is solved. All we really have is a situation were many people do not believe their version of events. Other than that there are loads of theories, ranging from a fatal accident in either the UK or Portugal to some botched kidnap. Many people don't even believe Maddie was ever there, I couldn't put solved on it myself.

Personally I think it is to big now with too many high profile people involved for the authorities to risk bringing it into the open. I think it is the kind of case they will want to bury for decades letting the files gather dust.

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Re: Met police fly to Spain re Madeleine disappearance

Post by Cheshire Cat on 29.12.11 13:06

@Pershing36 wrote:
@tigger wrote:


I think the crime is solved, there's just not going to be retribution by law.
I don't think they'll ever go to prison, not that that would solve anything anyway. I want them to shut up, if possible a good home found for the twins and the two of them to work! NZ would perhaps be good.
I just want Amaral to win and win big. I want Pat to get publicity and her book to be a best seller, since she is donating to real charities.
.

I really can't say it is solved. All we really have is a situation were many people do not believe their version of events. Other than that there are loads of theories, ranging from a fatal accident in either the UK or Portugal to some botched kidnap. Many people don't even believe Maddie was ever there, I couldn't put solved on it myself.

Personally I think it is to big now with too many high profile people involved for the authorities to risk bringing it into the open. I think it is the kind of case they will want to bury for decades letting the files gather dust.

Read Dr Amarals book and Pat Browns profile. She died in the appartment. I don't entertain any other possibility.

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