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Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

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Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 12.11.11 14:53

Gerry for the first time that week does not go to collect Madeleine from morning crèche, instead Kate goes and this is timed as happening at 12.25.

At 12.24, Gerry takes a call from Iain Squire, University Hospital Leicester, after having his phone switched off for a total of 88 hours. The call lasted only 12 seconds. Then 10 hours passes with nothing until the alarm is raised.

Kate deletes all four calls from her mobile, that occurred at 8.23, 8.24, 12.31 and 13.34. Nothing more occurs before the alarm is raised.

(as analysed by Kikoratton, an ex army communications expert)

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 12.11.11 15:04

That day, the cleaner did not have time to collect the rubbish from inside 5a.

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 13.11.11 9:43

The tapas restaurant booking for the 3rd http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2018-tapas-reservations

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 13.11.11 9:51

Ms N Irwin (pregnant less than 28 weeks) and Ms Brigid Elizabeth Irwin, enter the tapas restaurant for the first time that week. They somehow manage to appear on the list for 8.30, the exact same time as the T9, but interestingly their names appear before that of Payne, McCann, Oldfield and O'Brien. The T9 remember, made a block booking for the whole week the previous Sunday and should therefore appear first in that time slot.

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 13.11.11 10:01

Mr Philip Edmonds (nephew of senior Labour MP Margaret Hodge) and his 3 boys, enter the tapas restaurant that night, for the first time.

According to Stephen Carpenter, Mr Edmonds had arranged to leave first thing the following morning, a day before he was due to leave on the 5th. Interestingly, looking at the OC daily run reports, he did not officially check out on the 4th, as his reservation was still listed on the report run on the 5th.

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 13.11.11 10:11

Reports missing for this day:

Jellyfish crèche list for am

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Invinoveritas on 13.11.11 17:55

Stella wrote:Gerry for the first time that week does not go to collect Madeleine from morning crèche, instead Kate goes and this is timed as happening at 12.25.

At 12.24, Gerry takes a call from Iain Squire, University Hospital Leicester, after having his phone switched off for a total of 88 hours. The call lasted only 12 seconds. Then 10 hours passes with nothing until the alarm is raised.

Kate deletes all four calls from her mobile, that occurred at 8.23, 8.24, 12.31 and 13.34. Nothing more occurs before the alarm is raised.

(as analysed by Kikoratton, an ex army communications expert)

so am I correct here that although Gerry's mobile was switched off for most of the time that he was initially in PdL, he and Kate were both posting his mobile number in the creche as the contact number for "emergencys", this in accordance to the creche records, which appear to have been written in pencil, the mind boggles!

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Daisy on 13.11.11 18:41

@Invinoveritas wrote:

so am I correct here that although Gerry's mobile was switched off for most of the time that he was initially in PdL, he and Kate were both posting his mobile number in the creche as the contact number for "emergencys", this in accordance to the creche records, which appear to have been written in pencil, the mind boggles!

Never thought of that, good point.

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 14.11.11 8:46

@Daisy wrote:
@Invinoveritas wrote:

so am I correct here that although Gerry's mobile was switched off for most of the time that he was initially in PdL, he and Kate were both posting his mobile number in the creche as the contact number for "emergencys", this in accordance to the creche records, which appear to have been written in pencil, the mind boggles!

Never thought of that, good point.

Neither had I It's unbelievable what continues to turn up, when we concentrate our minds together.

Well done Invinoveritas.

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Invinoveritas on 14.11.11 17:53

Thanks Stella,

I'm still looking for the bottle of NZ wine and of course the beer that Gerry drank on that evening, up to now I have found two glasses which are filled two thirds with water and are standing on a) the small table in front off the sofa facing the living area and b) to the left of the sofa on the small table under which the dog reacted to the cadaver odour, looking at the disorder that was found in the appartment it makes it difficult for me to understand why the "bottles" were no longer visible and at the same time various clothing was found hanging on various pieces of furniture.

P.S. am using Daniela's book for this

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 15.11.11 13:48

For the first time that week, someone is booked into the tapas restaurant 'after' the T9 sitting.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2018-tapas-reservations

SPERREY at 9.00pm room FP05

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by HiDeHo on 15.11.11 22:58

Many discrepancies on Thursday (links available)

A few issues regarding Thursday, in addition to the images below:

Caroline Carpenter's statement is referred to in the files but is not available in the released files. Could this mean it is possible that the Irwin's statement is also held? Do they hold information about the comings and goings of the T9 that evening?

Rachel claims the last time she saw Madeleine was at mini tennis on Thursday...

Madeleine's group played Tuesday...Does this mean that Rachael saw her for the last time on Tuesday, or was she lying about seeing Madeleine at tennis? Did she know something had happened to Madeleine prior to May 3rd and was trying to be helpful stating she saw her when the Sharks were playing Thursday morning...not realising it was not Madeleine's group?

Jane Tanner claims to have played tennis with Rachael at lunchtime...conveniently at the time the last picture was taken.

Jane claims the family were by the pool and Madeleine shouted through the fence at them, but Rachael makes no mention of seeing them and had placed the last time she saw Madeleine, prior to that moment.

Was Jane there? Was Rachael there? Were the McCann's there?

More importantly...was MADELEINE there?



MADELEINE REPORTS CRYING





LUNCHTIME PICK-UP





HIGH TEA




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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by HiDeHo on 15.11.11 23:55


THURSDAY

THURSDAY May 3rd
Madeleine McCann AM
Ella O'Brien
Amelie & Sean?
9.10
9.50
???
GM
ROB
???
12.25
12.30
???
KM
ROB
???
Ella O'Brien PM
Madeleine McCann
Amelie & Sean
Lily
2.30
2.50
2.45
XXX
ROB
KM
KM
XXX
4.30
5.30
5.25
XXX
CAT
KM
KM
XXX
KATE:
Dial: 03 May 08.23 ? --624
Rec: 03 May 08.24 ? --624
Rec: 03 May 12.31 Mum mob
Dial: 03 May 13.34 Mum mob

Rec: 03 May 23.17 Gerry
K..Rec: 03 May 23.17 Gerry
G..Dial: 00.03 Janet Kenn
G..Dial: 00.04 Trish Cameron
G..Dial: 00.04 Janet Kenn
G..Dial: 00.19 Trish Cameron
G..Dial: 00.20 Phil McCann
G..Dial: 00.21 John McCann

http://mccannfiles.com/id174.html:
On Thursday 3rd May 2007 (the critical day) at 8.23 and 8.24 Kate McCann's mobile activated the antenna to call xxxx7624. There is nothing in file to indicate the owner of this mobile but it does not appear to be any of the McCann family or friends.”
This is the carrier guy . Body is put in a car-risky in the morning or Carrier guy confirms-Body in freezer in an unused apartment/job done.

“At 12.24 Gerald McCann received a call from a UK Mobile xxxx1746. Again there is no clue in the file to the subscriber's name.”
Carrier guy confirms-Body in freezer in an unused apartment/job done. Or loose ends tied up call. Radio silence planned.

Ofcourse ,code words are used for maddy,freezer,etc. Would have been interesting who amanda called in the morning,calls checked from uk to portugal (to a male) on 2nd may morning, why kate’s mom called kate on 2nd may afternoon.

Somebody can answer me these doubts:
1.Exact time alarm raised by kate.A deposition by anyone other than Tapas9. 22.15-anyone? So time gels with smith sighting of GM (or russel???same brown hair) ( 2155-2200) with “amelie” or one of other girls who looks like maddy-she also being sedated so thather arms fall by the side. How much time for GM to return to Tapas from smith sighting point-by same way? Return via Other street?how much time?anyone from PDL in this forum? I think a waiting car (or a car following GM intelligently) dropped GM/Russel back near to 5A-timings too tight w/o car. GM wanted somebody to see a man carrying a child on the 3rd night to camoflauge the real time of dissappearance.
2.Location/reason for cadaverine smell on flowerbed?


Thursday 03.05.2007 - The day of the disappearance

Breakfast - Apartment
Comment Madeleine "Where were you (was I) when me and S cried?"
Kids club, time - check registration
09.00-09.30 → 12:30
Sailing (beach)
Wash M top of pyjamas - big stain
Lunch? apartment? tea
Tennis lesson 09.15-10.15
conversation on the grass w / Russell and Nigel (the video camera)
[?] Minutes of tennis
K
? get Madeleine
J and Fiona (Scarlett)
Then pick up S and A
(? Meeting there with G)
Breakfast - apartment -? balcony
? recreational area - ok
Afternoon / Kids club - a bit later
K Ella already there
Swimming - indoors pool
K and G - practice tennis then lesson and coach Dan
15.30 - 16.30
Julian appeared - continued to play with Gerry
I went to run → beach
(rest of the group on the beach)
Gerry went to meet the kids for high tea at Tapas. I joined them after running.
+ / - 17.20-17.30
[Strikethrough text illegible]
M very tired and quiet
Since Ella was taken from the KC → beach. I was a little worried that she was sad to have been alone. (Not realised that the group had gone to the beach.)
She said she was fine.
She asked me to pick her up and said she was tired.
I picked her up and carried her to the apartment with G and S and A
Prepared bath as kids tired and men's tennis night at 18.00.
I considered returning to the recreation area with the kids but decided to stay in the apartment after bath and hair wash.

G men's tennis night
B pyjamas
Biscuits and milk for the kids - left them with this and books and games and went to take a quick bath / wash my hair.
I got out of the bath and David was knocking on the patio doors.
I wrapped myself in a towel and went into the living room.
He asked if we wanted to go to the recreational area, since he could help me take the kids.
Refused - since kids ready for bed.
I dressed myself.
Ate some snacks with the kids
M tired - sitting on my lap - read story of MOG
Brush teeth
To bedroom with kids
G there too - I think.
[Children's music] - M telling story
M removes and lowers head on pillow

S + A good-night kisses for M
From S and A → cots x2
K gave a good-night kiss to M
Leaned the door as much as possible without closing it.
Silence
? dry hair
Make-up
Glass of wine
20:35 → rest. First to arrive
21:00 → G, Conversation with Steve
21:30 → Matt, Carolyn (Note: Carolyn is a witness who says she heard someone calling Madeleine's name, around 21:30, as she walked back to her apartment)
22:00 → Myself, 20:40 Jane next
20:45 Matt and Rachael
Russell?
Detained
Evie feeling sick
R went for a long time
Jane replaced him


http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/more-on-the-deleted-call-records-%E2%80%93-where-was-kate-mccann/
The first call found in Gerald’s mobile memory was timed at 00.30 on Friday 4th May 2007. Again matching antenna records to memory suggests that by the time he gave the handset to the PJ the records of 24 calls or SMSs had been erased, including the one from him found on his wife’s handset and timed at 23.17 on Thursday 3rd May 2007. It appears that he had deleted details of the four calls he made to her that night and she deleted just three. It was this simple discrepancy that first led the PJ to suspect interference with the handsets.

If the deletions were deliberate (and it is an “if”) it implies the McCann’s were both “forensically aware” and crafty and wanted to hide something from the PJ. For this reason, it is important to explore the call record data and to match it against other evidence



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Fiona Payne

Post by TrollAng on 04.12.11 15:10

00.41.20
1485: "And again, this is a repeat but when did you, when was the last time you saw Madeleine?"
Reply: "It was, it would be when we walked back with, Scarlet and Kate from the, from picking them at the kids club in the af, in the lunch time, that was the last time I saw them".


It's only a small thing but wondering why Fiona suddenly converts Madeleine into "them".

According to both women Kate & Fiona only collected Scarlett & Madeleine from the creche. So who is the "them" that Fiona last saw? I'm pretty sure that she saw Kate again.




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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 05.12.11 8:22

Good question TrollAng.

Could it be that the sub Madeleine and her friend, left together. Hence picking 'them' up?

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by TrollAng on 06.12.11 20:28

Stella wrote:Good question TrollAng.

Could it be that the sub Madeleine and her friend, left together. Hence picking 'them' up?

Gerry has a tennis lesson finishing at 11. The Paynes are on the beach/surfing. Kate meets up with Fiona and they go pick up Madeleine & Lily. Kate emphasizes that Fiona goes back to the apartment before she meets Gerry with the twins. They go back to their own apartment for lunch, meanwhile everyone else goes to the Paynes. Quite a lot of people going off in different directions for no apparent reason. And the highlight of Kate's day seems to have been washing out Madeleine's teastained pyjama top. A whole lot of detail for one who doesn't claim to be a domestic goddess.

I'm surprised that 1485 didn't pause to ponder on who "them" were because to me it's not really clear.

"them" could well have referred to sub Madx & parent or indeed the host if varying Madeleines that we have seen in the pictures that were released after 3rd.

From one moment to the next I wonder was there 0 (No DNA), 1 or several (poster, tennis, last, playground) Madx's around.

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Matt

Post by TrollAng on 14.12.11 23:13

"Well Kate went and did the next check and think because we'd, I didn't, we didn't all go at that point, just Kate went and then came running back saying, she's gone, Gerry Madeleine's gone, and she was sort of borderline hysterical, as you'd expect, and then there was just a blur as everybody then just ran off from the table. Then everybody I think left the table, I mean, I just remember being behind Dave as he was, and Gerry, as they were running, Russell I think (inaudible) a bit behind and so we all ran. If you ask whether we went into the apartment and I'm almost a hundred percent sure we didn't go to the apartment, we were, because it was just so awful, so Gerry and Kate and maybe Dave, I'm not sure, but went sort of to the bottom of the steps and they sort of went in and as soon as they sort of said she's gone and everything, all hell broke loose, we went round to check firstly on G***e to make sure she was okay and we dropped Rachael up there, telling her that she wasn't to move, Jane came out of the apartment, did she come out of the apartment at that point or was it later in the evening, I can't remember, but I remember seeing them, most of the time and then for the rest of the evening they were stood at the doorways to the apartments we went back round, and everybody was just running around like sort of headless chickens, so I remember saying we need a plan, I mean, I don't know why I said that but I think I'd just read too many novels, because everybody just seemed to just sort of run, there was sort of no organisation and it was obviously important that we did something constructive rather than just running around looking in the hedgerows if what we, because we all went through this is she really gone, surely she must have just sort of wandered off and we're just going to find her and she's going to be there, but she's like a four year old child and she, I mean, all the doors were shut, she wasn't really going to run off and then Jane said, the shutters up, and we sort of scarpered and Dave and Russell were just running off sort of shouting, so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police, so I actually went down the route to where she would have gone for Nursery drop off, which his back to the, to the main reception essentially, so I went down that route looking for her at that time and I asked the reception to phone the Police, and that must have been about five past, it's difficult to know what time it was at that time, but maybe about ten past ten, five past ten, ten past ten".

This is the part where nothing seems to fit for me. I find it incredible that this story is still told & believed.

1. They still refer to the open shutters knowing that nobody could have exited with Madeleine from the bedroom window, evidence proves it.
2. Mark Warner have stated that there was no break in and we know the shutters couldn't have been opened from the outside.
3. Kate is adamant that she knew instantly that there was an "abduction" because Madeleine couldn't have opened the patio door by herself.
4. From Jane Tanner's story and the implausible evidence the "abductor" would need to exit the front door which was in Kate's later statement possibly open
5. Even if the "abductor" did exit the back door and run around the lane he would have ran straight into Gerry & Jez who according to JT were right at the gate.
6. If front door was open (4) what was to prevent Madeleine opening said door (latch in the right place to do so) so why did Kate instantly know it was an "abduction"?
7. Why didn't Kate ask any questions of the others, Gerry, Jane, Russell & Matt who had all been to "check" during the evening? According to Matt Kate rushed down, informed everyone of the "abduction", rushed back into the apartment all the while Matt, who had been the last person in the room wasn't asked a single question as in was Madeleine there, did he see anything unusual, was she in another bed? Nothing?
8. Why does Kate refer to Jane's sighting suggesting she might feel bad if she was in Jane's shoes? Her husband was outside the apartment all of the time according to them, shouldn't he feel bad too? How could he have missed this "abduction" if he was literally feet away?


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scrutiny

Post by russiandoll on 15.12.11 17:58

These details do not stand up to scrutiny, do not add up to a coherent plausible account and here is where I have to believe that a reexamination of this case by SY is not just going down the abduction route and reviewing work by the McCann's PIs.....it makes no sense for it to do so.
I cannot believe that the trip to Spain has been to review the abducted and with gypsies theory. The British police's remit I believe is to review all evidence in this case, therefore they surely must be looking again also at evidence pointing away from stranger abduction and the trip to Spain involved something else ?

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Guest on 15.12.11 23:40

You're absolutely right, russiandoll. I think it's a very interesting test for SY and the results will tell a lot. Madeleine is on our minds but to me the investigation is now about more than that. Here is hoping that they rise to the challenge in seeking the truth, time will tell. I'm not a UK resident but the results of this enquiry will have consequences that still affect our lives past, present and future.Where are we if we can't believe in truth and justice?

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Newintown on 16.12.11 2:29

Molly wrote:You're absolutely right, russiandoll. I think it's a very interesting test for SY and the results will tell a lot. Madeleine is on our minds but to me the investigation is now about more than that. Here is hoping that they rise to the challenge in seeking the truth, time will tell. I'm not a UK resident but the results of this enquiry will have consequences that still affect our lives past, present and future.Where are we if we can't believe in truth and justice?

The term "past, present and future" is very fitting as I believe the McCanns are dragging this out as long as they can, probably up to 7 years, as someone has indicated on this forum sometime ago that after 7 years a person can be deemed dead without a body. If the McCanns reach the 7 years they are then home and dry.

God help us, if we've got another 3 years of their pathetic nonsense to put up with in the sycophantic newspaper reports and the even worse TV news coverage. I think I may have to emigrate to a desert island if this isn't resolved by the end of 2012.

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by Miraflores on 16.12.11 7:14

@Newintown wrote: If the McCanns reach the 7 years they are then home and dry.



Would this be up to the McCanns though? Madeleine was made a Ward of Court, so wouldn't the court have to decide to do this?

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by uppatoffee on 16.12.11 8:38

If this 7 year thing is the case then does that mean the fund would have to be wound up? If it hasn't already been shut down? smilie

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Re: Thursday May 3rd - the day Madeleine officially disappears

Post by pauline on 16.12.11 10:51

there is no advantage to the McCanns to having madeleine declared dead after 7 years. In fact the opposite, since its the possibility of her being alive that brings in money.

The Fund is an ordinary limited company so can be kept open whatever the status of madeleine. the objectives of the company include financial assistance to madeleine's family and that is ALWAYS RELEVANT!

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